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To ALL…………How can you trinitarians not understand this, what is blocking your understanding? It does sorrow my soul that most can not understand this. GOD Help US ALL !. How clear can it get?
Peace and love to you Jodi and all who understand these things…………………………..gene
G,
But you add inferences and logic to scripture in the same way they do and can see no problem with that?Nick………I have ask you to show me where I (ADD) inferences to Scripture, Without proof. Please post it or better you not even commit on anything if you disagree please have the descants to post why. Not just make a blurt commit showing your opinions without any Scripture to back it up. Show me all these add on and references without scripture back up . Remember because you don't understand something does (Not) make it wrong now does it? IMO
peace and love……………………….gene
G,
God has not appointed you to be the final filter of understanding by adding INTELLECT to scripture.
Stand aside and let God speak through His unadulterated word.NIck………..But GOD appointed YOU to be His filter Right?, Have you so deluded yourself to believe that. You are speaking for yourself and it has nothing to do with GOD Speaking, GOD does speak through His WORDS but you need to understand those word first, if you have any light in you. IMO
gene
Nick……….Where am i adding at you can reject it all you want but you argument is with Him not ME. Don't tell me i am change anything that is what Jesus said, now you need to understand what a word (IS) . I already KNOW , It is the expression of ONES intellect. If you have a different meaning then post it. But quit accusing me of adding to scripture.
gene
G,
You are offering to stand between men and their God.
You say we all need a key only you hold.
We have a mediator.The catholic 'priests' offer themselves in a similar unnecessary role.
John 5:37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. 38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. 39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. 41 I do not receive honor from men. 42 But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. 43 I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. 44 How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? 45 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you–Moses, in whom you trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”
Jesus declares the FATHER as the ONLY God, and shows clearly that he is not YHWH but the prophet YHWH had promised Moses He would RAISE UP.
Ac 3:22 For Moses truly said to the fathers, 'The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you.
Ac 7:37 “This is that Moses who said to the children of Israel, 'The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear.'
Deuteronomy 18:15 “The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hear, 16 according to all you desired of the Lord your God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, 'Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, nor let me see this great fire anymore, lest I die.' 17 And the Lord said to me: 'What they have spoken is good. 18 I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. 19 And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him.
The trinity is truly rather embarrassing. YHWH, who is suppose to be Jesus, says that He will raise up a prophet to speak His words for Him. When Jesus comes he says that he does not speak his own words but the Fathers. SERIOUSLY could the trinity not be more BLATANLY FALSE? Jesus speaks in the FATHER’S NAME, not his own name, but the FATHER’S!
Exodus 3:15 And God saith again unto Moses, `Thus dost thou say unto the sons of Israel, Jehovah, God of your fathers, God of Abraham, God of Isaac, and God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you; this [is] My name — to the age, and this My memorial, to generation — generation.
Exodus 6:3 and I appear unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty; as to My name Jehovah, I have not been known to them;
Acts 3: 13 `The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, did glorify His child Jesus, whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, he having given judgment to release him,
Lev 22:2 `Speak unto Aaron, and unto his sons, and they are separated from the holy things of the sons of Israel, and they pollute not My holy name in what they are hallowing to Me; I [am] Jehovah.
Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me.
Re 14:1 Then I looked, and behold, a* Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having+ His Father's name written on their foreheads.
YHWH is the name of the FATHER, it is not the name of a pre-existent Jesus.
Jodi
This is from another thread and is appropriate for this thread!
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 24 2009,16:12) The ORIGIN of CHRIST is known, Christ is the MAN of the seed of David. Since Jesus is the CHRIST, then obviously the origin of the Christ comes from Mary's WOMB!
Sure he took on the likeness of sinful flesh according to John 1:1, 14 and Phil 2:6-8, but that was not his “Origin”!1 Cor 10:4 is proof that Jesus is YHWH.
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and “that Rock was Christ“. 1 Cor 10:4
The word “Christ” in the NT is always referring to Jesus!
Strong's G5547 – Christos = Christ = “anointed”
1) Christ was the Messiah, the Son of God
2) anointed
The word “Christ” (Christos) was the Greek term for the “Anointed One” or “The Messiah”, and not the “anointing” or Holy Spirit.
“569 TIMES THE WORD “CHRIST” IS USED IN THE NT AND IN EVERY CASE IT IS REFERRING TO JESUS”.
The Apostle Paul, under the influence of the Holy Spirit USED THE WORD “CHRIST” (CHRISTOS) “57” OTHER TIMES IN THE EPISTLE AND ALL OF THEM REFER TO JESUS, yet you want to tell us that Paul meant something or someone else besides Jesus in 1 Cor 10:4.
The challenge is to you also to explain why Paul in every other case in all of his “Epistles” uses the word “Christ” (Christos) in referring to Jesus, yet somehow he is not meaning Jesus in 1 Cor 10:4!
Why did he do that? Was Paul an idiot?
This is proof that Paul believed that Jesus was YHWH!
WJ
Jodi lee said;
Quote YHWH is the name of the FATHER, it is not the name of a pre-existent Jesus. Jodi Lee,
Moses said that the messenger of YHWH was YHWH and Hagar said that the Messenger was “The God who sees me.” Moses was inspired and Hagar was there. You were neither.Please see the “Who was Job's advocate” thread I started today.
thinker
Hi TT,
Still enlarging your god?
Why do you advocate a trinity when angels and bushes are included too in your community god?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 26 2009,03:53) Jodi This is from another thread and is appropriate for this thread!
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 24 2009,16:12) The ORIGIN of CHRIST is known, Christ is the MAN of the seed of David. Since Jesus is the CHRIST, then obviously the origin of the Christ comes from Mary's WOMB!
Sure he took on the likeness of sinful flesh according to John 1:1, 14 and Phil 2:6-8, but that was not his “Origin”!1 Cor 10:4 is proof that Jesus is YHWH.
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and “that Rock was Christ“. 1 Cor 10:4
The word “Christ” in the NT is always referring to Jesus!
Strong's G5547 – Christos = Christ = “anointed”
1) Christ was the Messiah, the Son of God
2) anointed
The word “Christ” (Christos) was the Greek term for the “Anointed One” or “The Messiah”, and not the “anointing” or Holy Spirit.
“569 TIMES THE WORD “CHRIST” IS USED IN THE NT AND IN EVERY CASE IT IS REFERRING TO JESUS”.
The Apostle Paul, under the influence of the Holy Spirit USED THE WORD “CHRIST” (CHRISTOS) “57” OTHER TIMES IN THE EPISTLE AND ALL OF THEM REFER TO JESUS, yet you want to tell us that Paul meant something or someone else besides Jesus in 1 Cor 10:4.
The challenge is to you also to explain why Paul in every other case in all of his “Epistles” uses the word “Christ” (Christos) in referring to Jesus, yet somehow he is not meaning Jesus in 1 Cor 10:4!
Why did he do that? Was Paul an idiot?
This is proof that Paul believed that Jesus was YHWH!
WJ
Huh?
Did I ever say anything about Paul not meaning Jesus as Christ in 1 Corinthians 10?
NICE approach?
1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
Once again you take CHRIST and try and turn it into something or someone else. Christ is the MAN of the seed of David who died for ALL sins.
Did NOT THE Israelites SIN. Did not YHWH have a plan from the beginning to bring salvation for the world THROUGH the MAN Christ?
Ro 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
You take scripture WJ, and forget that CHRIST was foreknown, that he existed in the beginning with the Father as a plan.
2Ti 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
Father Abraham of the Israelites KNEW of the glory of the Christ that was to come!
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 25 2009,16:19) Huh? Did I ever say anything about Paul not meaning Jesus as Christ in 1 Corinthians 10?
Thank you! You just admitted that Jesus was the one following Moses and the Children of Israel in the wilderness!And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and “that Rock was Christ.
WJ
Jodi
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 25 2009,16:19) You take scripture WJ, and forget that CHRIST was foreknown, that he existed in the beginning with the Father as a plan.
A plan does not follow them in the wilderness!WJ
Hi WJ,
Jesus was not given that name till born of Mary.
The Spirit of Christ which is of God was in the prophets and with Moses.The Lord is the Spirit.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 26 2009,08:30) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 25 2009,16:19) Huh? Did I ever say anything about Paul not meaning Jesus as Christ in 1 Corinthians 10?
Thank you! You just admitted that Jesus was the one following Moses and the Children of Israel in the wilderness!And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and “that Rock was Christ.
WJ
Christ is the man of the seed of David!Abraham knew of the coming Jesus so did David and other prophets, they FOLLOWED that which YHWH revealed to them of the COMING CHRIST.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 26 2009,08:32) Jodi Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 25 2009,16:19) You take scripture WJ, and forget that CHRIST was foreknown, that he existed in the beginning with the Father as a plan.
A plan does not follow them in the wilderness!WJ
Christ is in us in the FORM of knowledge and belief, it is a work in our mind. This spirit of Christ was in Abraham and in David. Christ had not yet existed and he had not yet been raised from the dead, however the truth of this to come already bared fruit in the hearts of the prophets!!!CAN you understand that WJ? Truth is truth. It does not matter WHEN it OCCURS, what matters is what it produces in the knowledge of it.
People BELIEVED in Christ BEFORE YHWH's promises were fulfilled, and people believed in them after.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 23 2009,06:05) Quote (georg @ Sep. 22 2009,22:57) To all! There are these Scriptures that show me, that Jesus Christ did exists before the World was.
Col. 1:15 ” He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.”
verse 16 For by Him all things were created that are in Heaven and that are on Earth, visible and invisible…….
verse 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
Rev. 3:14 …” These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the beginning of the creation of God.
In John Jesus says this
John 17:5 ” And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You
before the world was.”
This could not be any clearer to me, that He dd exist before the world was.
Peace and Love Irene
Good Afternoon Irene,Scripture shows that the Christ was TO BE, and that he WOULD BE of the seed of David, and he WOULD BE called the Son of God, and that he WOULD bring eternal life. Scripture shows that the Christ would die and receive human immortality. How is it exactly then that you believe the CHRIST existed before? It is not actually the Christ though that you believe existed before is it? You don't believe that a human of the seed of David existed before Jesus was born of Mary, do you? You think it was some other being that then was transformed into a human baby that forgot everything from it's former life, and then became the Christ. Then after his resurrection you believe he went back to his former self, having the same glory that he had before? Is that right? What glory would you describe Jesus had before and then after?
Irene I think you are mistaken in your belief, you have taken a few scriptures and looked at them under the wrong light.
Please TEST and PROVE all things, and think on the scriptures below, and see if they hold up to your belief.
2 Timothy 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 11 to which I was appointed a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
Notice how the promise of Jesus, the Man born of Mary, was given before time began. The above scripture mentions nothing about Jesus pre-existing other than according to God's PLAN.
Romans 16:25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began 26 but now has been made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith— 27 to God, alone wise, be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen.
1 John 2:25 And this is the promise that He has promised us–eternal life.
Ac 13:23 From this man's seed, according to the promise, God raised up for Israel a Savior–Jesus–
There exists NO scripture that says that the promise of God was to send a son He already had to become a man.
Acts 13: 30 But God raised Him from the dead. 31 He was seen for many days by those who came up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are His witnesses to the people. 32 And we declare to you glad tidings–that promise which was made to the fathers. 33 God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm: 'You are My Son,Today I have begotten You.' 34 And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus: 'I will give you the sure mercies of David.' 35 Therefore He also says in another Psalm: 'You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption.' 36 “For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption; 37 but He whom God raised up saw no corruption.
Galatians 3:19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
Titus 1:1 Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness, 2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,
Joh 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
There exists NO scripture that says that God would send a pre-existent son who already existed. The promise was for God to send the CHRIST a HUMAN savior. The promise of eternal life for man was the GLORY that Jesus had in the beginning with God.
Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Eph 3:11according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord,
1Pe 5:10 But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you.
John 17:1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
The GLORY that Jesus had in the beginning was the PROMISE of Eternal Life for HUMAN Beings!
The GLORY that Jesus has is that he is the first to receive the Fruit of God’s Spirit.
Ro 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
Col 1:18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
Re 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,
Jesus is the Beginning of the CREATION of Eternal Life for Human Beings. He is said to be the BEGINNING of the firstborn from the dead. NO WHERE is Jesus to be found as being created before Adam and Eve. According to the genealogy of Luke, Adam is the FIRST Son of God. Jesus the CHRIST was in the beginning with God as a PROMISE, there existed NO immortal Son of God that existed before Adam and Eve.
Luke 3:38 the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
1 Corinthians 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has
become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.Luke 24:39 Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”
Eph 5:30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones.
1 Corinthians 15:35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?” 36 Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. 37 And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain–perhaps wheat or some other grain. 38But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body.……..41 There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Jesus was BORN with a natural body, he was sown in corruption but raised in incorruption in glory. He was sown in weakness and raised in power given a spiritual body made of FLESH and BONES!
45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly.
Jesus was born as the man of dust, but he BECAME the heavenly man. Jesus was born just as we have been born, able to die, however Jesus is able to die no more having become a heavenly man with the Spirit of eternal life in him. As we were born like the FIRST ADAM, so we will be made just like the Last Adam.
49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
Man cannot inherit eternal salvation himself, flesh and blood does not have the means within itself to inherit eternal salvation, the Spirit of the Father working in us is what brings us to inherit God’s kingdom. Our flesh and blood needs the work of God’s Spirit to create faith in us, with that faith we are raised immortal made like Jesus with flesh and BONES!
God made earth for man to have dominion over it. The FIRST Adam lost his position of leadership, Jesus of Nazareth became the last Adam, he earned the firstborn rights of Adam, and has inherited heaven and earth. Jesus has been given full authority to have dominion over heaven and earth. In the beginning we know that God had a PLAN to give eternal life unto man. God made the world FOR and THROUGH His knowledge of the Heavenly MAN! Scripture is clear that YHWH ALONE created heaven and earth. YHWH, by His hands created heaven and earth, and He created if FOR and THROUGH His foreknowledge of righteous men, heavenly men, Christ being the First!
Ps 8:6 You have made him to have dominion over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet,
Heb 2:7 You have made him a little lower than the angels;You have crowned him with glory and honor, And set him over the works of Your hands.
Jodi! You are quoting Scriptures that when Jesus becomes a man. No Jodi, I do not ignore Scriptures that tell me that Jesus was a Spirit being before He became a man. You ignore that He was with the Father before He became a man..
Those are not a few either. And even out of the mouth of Jesus Himself does He say that He was with the Father before the world was.
John 17:5
ThaT goes along with
Rev. 3:14
Col. 1:15-17
That is 4 Scriptures a few is 2.
Also if Christ forgot everything, how could He then say, what He did in John 17:5
Tell me something, why is it that you don't want to believe this. It takes nothing away from Jesus being a man also. IMO He knew what was at stake if He would sin, and therefore did not. Scriptures say that ALL HAVE FALLEN SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. Did that also incude Jesus? Not according to me. Because He knew where He came from. IMO that is the only way we could be saved. God had to send His only begotten Son into the world to save mankind. And if it says send, then where did God send His Son from.
This is coming a little later, since our Granddaughter came and we had to do something with Her.
Peace and Love Irene
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