Yhwh is clearly the father

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
God was in him.[2Cor5]
God spoke through him.

[Jodi Lee]

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 21 2009,08:57)

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Aug. 21 2009,06:06) Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 20 2009,05:55) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Aug. 20 2009,04:11) Thanks Gene, I hope people are really starting to question their understanding of Jesus being YHWH, both trinitarians and pre-existent folks. YHWH is clearly the Father due to the fact that it was YHWH that promised He would raise up an eternal human king of the seed of David and be to him a Father. Love to you,    Jodi Jesus participated in the raising up of what Jodi calls “an eternal human.” Young's Literal Translation: “Jesus answered and said to them, `Destroy this sanctuary, and in three days I will raise it up.' The Jews, therefore, said, `Forty and six years was this sanctuary building, and wilt thou in three days raise it up?' but he spake concerning the sanctuary of his body; when, then, he was raised out of the dead, his disciples   remembered that he said this to them, and they believed the Writing, and the word that Jesus said.” (John 2:19-22) Please keep your reply brief Jodi. Just exegete this passage without your usual pretexting. thinker To keep it brief, we know that when the time came and Jesus died it was by the Father and His powers, that Jesus was raised from the dead. The role that Jesus himself played, ensuring that the Father would raise him, was remaining sinless, remaining faithful to God and never giving into his flesh. You have explained it away. Jesus said that He Himself would raise up His body. thinker

Hey TT, actually I posted again saying that after I looked at the scripture more thoroughly I discovered that Jesus was NOT speaking of himself raising himself, he was quoting his Father!

This is what I said in the post after the first one,

“John 2:19 Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” 20 Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” 21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 Therefore, when He had risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this to them; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had said.

Hmmm, after taking a closer look at the above passage and knowing what many other scriptures say, I believe that Jesus was quoting the Father and not speaking on behalf of himself.

First he was misunderstood, they thought Jesus was saying that he would raise up the temple. But he wasn't talking about raising the temple but his body, and scripture is clear that the Father raised Jesus body. How on earth would Jesus be able to raise his own body when he is DEAD? The disciples say that they believed the Scripture and the word of Jesus, Jesus must have been quoting the Father from a scripture, when he said, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

The disciples believed the scripture AND the word which Jesus said to them, in reference to “in three days I will raise it up.”

We know from the OT that YHWH would not let his Holy One see corruption and we know from the New Testament that it was the the Father who raised Jesus, so obviously Jesus was quoting his Father.

[GeneBalthrop]

Jodi…………..> continue to “let the Spirit have it's perfect work”, it is apparent God is using you sis. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………..gene

[KangarooJack]

Jodi lee said:

Quote

Hmmm, after taking a closer look at the above passage and knowing what many other scriptures say, I believe that Jesus was quoting the Father and not speaking on behalf of himself. First he was misunderstood, they thought Jesus was saying that he would raise up the temple. But he wasn't talking about raising the temple but his body, and scripture is clear that the Father raised Jesus body. How on earth would Jesus be able to raise his own body when he is DEAD? The disciples say that they believed the Scripture and the word of Jesus, Jesus must have been quoting the Father from a scripture, when he said, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

Jodi Lee,
Good reply but I must disagree. At least you're trying to determine what the passage says on its own before throwing other scriptures into it. This I can deal with. But I have to disagree because the Jews asked for a sign from HIM saying, “What sign do YOU show us, since YOU do these things.” Jesus' replied saying that He would raise up His body and the simple reading is that He was speaking in reference to Himself. In chapter 10 He said that He had the power to do this,

Quote

17 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

Jesus had the authority to lay down His own life and to raise it again. He clearly said so. The Jews misunderstood which temple He was talking about and that's all. Jesus did not quote the Father for the Father did not say, “Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.” Show where the Father ever said this. The scripture they remembered was that which said that He MUST rise from the dead.

thinker

[GeneBalthrop]

Thinker……..Don't you believe what Jesus said “the FATHER was (IN) Him”, and The FATHER was the ONE who Said through Jesus destory this temple and in three days (I) shall raise it up. That was not Jesus who said that it was GOD the FATHER FIRST PERSON Speaking (THROUGH) JESUS. There are at least Three scriptures that PLAINLY SAY that GOD RAISED UP JESUS From the GRAVE. Jesus did (NOT) raise Himself UP or He was not really dead. But Jesus said He was DEAD and is now alive for ever more. So If Jesus said He was Really dead why can't you trinitarians believe that, because it is part of your (MYSTERY) Religion you preach. WE are also told “when a man dies his thought (PARISH), so (IF) Jesus really died then His thoughts also PERISHED. or was it all a hokes a lie and He did not (REALLY) die. If Jesus was the one speaking he would have referred to his Body as a body, not a temple, God references us as temples He can dwell in. When are you Trinitarians going to STOP trying to confuse everything. I know if GOD has sent a spirit of delusion (2 Ths2)into a person, it's impossible to understand the truth. IMO

peace and love……………….gene

[Jodi Lee]

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 22 2009,03:11)

Jodi lee said: Quote Hmmm, after taking a closer look at the above passage and knowing what many other scriptures say, I believe that Jesus was quoting the Father and not speaking on behalf of himself. First he was misunderstood, they thought Jesus was saying that he would raise up the temple. But he wasn't talking about raising the temple but his body, and scripture is clear that the Father raised Jesus body. How on earth would Jesus be able to raise his own body when he is DEAD? The disciples say that they believed the Scripture and the word of Jesus, Jesus must have been quoting the Father from a scripture, when he said, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” Jodi Lee, Good reply but I must disagree. At least you're trying to determine what the passage says on its own before throwing other scriptures into it. This I can deal with. But I have to disagree because the Jews asked for a sign from HIM saying, “What sign do YOU show us, since YOU do these things.” Jesus' replied saying that He would raise up His body and the simple reading is that He was speaking in reference to Himself. In chapter 10 He said that He had the power to do this, Quote 17 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.” Jesus had the authority to lay down His own life and to raise it again. He clearly said so. The Jews misunderstood which temple He was talking about and that's all. Jesus did not quote the Father for the Father did not say, “Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.” Show where the Father ever said this. The scripture they remembered was that which said that He MUST rise from the dead. thinker

John 10:7 `Because of this doth the Father love me, because I lay down my life, that again I may take it; 18 no one doth take it from me, but I lay it down of myself; authority I have to lay it down, and authority I have again to take it; this command I received from my Father.'

Jesus is not saying that he raises himself from the dead, he lays down his life and takes his life. He is saying that it is by his choice that he laid down his life for others and had it taken from him, and notice it was a command he was receiving from his Father.

What scripture were the disciples talking about, when they said they believed the scripture that had said, “and in three days I will raise it up?”

I don't know, I have not found one in my bible that says that specifically, but what we DO have, which I believe is rather key is that YHWH says that HE would not let the holy One see corruption, and as well we see that it was in FACT our Heavenly Father who is said to raise Jesus from the dead. When spoken of the resurrection after it occurred there exists NO scripture that says Jesus raised himself from the dead, ONLY the Father is mentioned.

Acts 13:33 God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm: 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.' 34 And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus: 'I will give you the sure mercies of David.' 35 Therefore He also says in another Psalm: 'You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption.' 36 “For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption; 37 but He whom God raised up saw no corruption. 38 Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins;

The disciples were quite clearly aware of the PROMISE of YHWH raising the Messiah from the dead.

The very idea that Jesus would be able to raise himself from the dead is completely FUTILE IMO!

So, so wrong!

Ga 1:1 Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead),

Ro 6:4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life

Ephesians 1:17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, 18 the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power 20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,

Ro 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another–to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

Ro 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Ro 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up–if in fact the dead do not rise. 16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! 18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable

You take away the glory of the Father TT, when you preach the lie that Jesus raised himself from the dead. You make people’s faith EMPTY, because we have no power to raise ourselves from the dead, and if that is how Jesus raised himself from the dead, then we have no hope for being resurrected.

If Jesus raised himself from the dead, then he was never truly dead, and if he was never truly dead, then we are still in our sins.  

Our hope is in the biblical FACT that as Jesus, the man who in every way was like us, was raised from the dead by the Father, that we too will be resurrected by the Father.  

Your doctrine TT, truly IMO has you blind and delusional on what the scriptures actually teach.

Come out of that futile doctrine, dude!!

1 Peter 1:20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and ga
ve Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

[GeneBalthrop]

Jodi……….Amen Sister, You nailed it. whats interesting no matter how clear scriptures are these TRINITARIANS can't put them together, it like there being prevent from being able to. No wounder Jesus said to him who has ears to hear let him hear , These deluded and confused Trinitarians remind me of Those who are, Just blind guides groping at the wall , ever learning but never coming to the Knowledge of the TRUTH. IMO

Peace and Love to you and yours…………………………gene

[KangarooJack]

Jodi Lee said:

Quote

Jesus is not saying that he raises himself from the dead, he lays down his life and takes his life. He is saying that it is by his choice that he laid down his life for others and had it taken from him, and notice it was a command he was receiving from his Father.

Jodi,
You totally misconstrue what Jesus said. Others did not take His life from Him. He clearly said so. “No man takes my life from Me.” He was saying that He alone had the authority to take His life and then to take it again. You missed the “again” part of His statement. He had the power to raise up His own life,

Quote

Destroy this temple and I will raise it up

and,

Quote

I Myself am the resurrection and the life (11:25)

The pronoun is emphatic in the Greek, “I MYSELF am the resurrection and the life.”

Quote

What scripture were the disciples talking about, when they said they believed the scripture that had said, “and in three days I will raise it up?” I don't know, I have not found one in my bible that says that specifically, but what we DO have, which I believe is rather key is that YHWH says that HE would not let the holy One see corruption, and as well we see that it was in FACT our Heavenly Father who is said to raise Jesus from the dead. When spoken of the resurrection after it occurred there exists NO scripture that says Jesus raised himself from the dead, ONLY the Father is mentioned.

Trinitarians confess that the resurrection was an act of the trinity. So I would not dispute that the Father raised Jesus from the dead. We do not need to discuss those Scriptures which attribute the resurrection to the Father. We must discuss those which attribute the resurrection of Jesus to the Son and to the Spirit.

Jesus said, “Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.” You said that Jesus was “quoting” the Father. But the scriptures you offer do not contain these words. The Jews were asking for a sign from Jesus HIMSELF,  “What sign do YOU show us, since YOU do these things.”  And He replied saying, “Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.” The Jews asked for a sign from Jesus directly and He directly answered saying what HE HIMSELF would do. This is the simple reading of the text.

Quote

I MYSELF am the resurrection and the life (John 11:25)

JESUS IS THE RESURRECTION!

thinker

[Cindy]

Thinker you are not using common sense, how can Jesus resurrect Himself, like Jodi said, He was dead, and sleeping in Hell or grave.    And since you believe in the trinity all 3 would be dead, and would still be.  Nobody can raise himself up.  Another thing the Heavenly FATHER CANNOT DIE HE HAS ETERNAL LIFE.  When Jesus said that I myself raise Me up, Either it was added ore He meant His Father would raise Him up.   When it says Jesus is the resurrection it is not meant literal.  We through Jesus receive eternal life, and we will be resurrected,  We do everything in Jesus Name.  Why, because the Father cannot look at sin, and Jesus is our Mediator to go to God the Father. I have been meaning to say this to you. You are following a man made doctrine and Scripture tells u not to do so.
Math. 15:9 ” But in vain do they worship me, for teaching for doctrine the commandment of men.” Come out of Her my People Revelation says. Who was this man? Do I have to tell you again? Quintus Septimus Florence Tertullian, instituted that doctrine in A.D.193 .You and everyone that believes in the trinity will one day understand. I hope for them like you they are not so set, that they not even recognize then.
So what about you, are you so ingrained, that you don't understand what these Scriptures tell you about the trinity, And you know which Scriptures I am talking about, not that I have to put them down again.

Peace and Love Irene

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 22 2009,12:56)

Jodi Lee said: Quote Jesus is not saying that he raises himself from the dead, he lays down his life and takes his life. He is saying that it is by his choice that he laid down his life for others and had it taken from him, and notice it was a command he was receiving from his Father. Jodi, You totally misconstrue what Jesus said. Others did not take His life from Him. He clearly said so. “No man takes my life from Me.” He was saying that He alone had the authority to take His life and then to take it again. You missed the “again” part of His statement. He had the power to raise up His own life, Quote Destroy this temple and I will raise it up and, Quote I Myself am the resurrection and the life (11:25) The pronoun is emphatic in the Greek, “I MYSELF am the resurrection and the life.” Quote What scripture were the disciples talking about, when they said they believed the scripture that had said, “and in three days I will raise it up?” I don't know, I have not found one in my bible that says that specifically, but what we DO have, which I believe is rather key is that YHWH says that HE would not let the holy One see corruption, and as well we see that it was in FACT our Heavenly Father who is said to raise Jesus from the dead. When spoken of the resurrection after it occurred there exists NO scripture that says Jesus raised himself from the dead, ONLY the Father is mentioned. Trinitarians confess that the resurrection was an act of the trinity. So I would not dispute that the Father raised Jesus from the dead. We do not need to discuss those Scriptures which attribute the resurrection to the Father. We must discuss those which attribute the resurrection of Jesus to the Son and to the Spirit. Jesus said, “Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.” You said that Jesus was “quoting” the Father. But the scriptures you offer do not contain these words. The Jews were asking for a sign from Jesus HIMSELF,  “What sign do YOU show us, since YOU do these things.”  And He replied saying, “Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.” The Jews asked for a sign from Jesus directly and He directly answered saying what HE HIMSELF would do. This is the simple reading of the text. Quote I MYSELF am the resurrection and the life (John 11:25) JESUS IS THE RESURRECTION! thinker

Hi Jack

Exactly!

And John also narrates and tells us it was Jesus speaking of himself…

Then the Jews demanded of him, “What miraculous sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?”
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I WILL RAISE IT AGAIN IN THREE DAYS.” The Jews replied, “It has taken forty six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” BUT THE TEMPLE HE HAD SPOKEN OF WAS HIS BODY.” John 2:18-21

Jesus could have said “my Father will raise it up”, but he didn’t. In fact Jesus was in the center of the earth for three days and three nights alive like Jonah who prayed to the Lord!

Do not be afraid of those who “kill the body but cannot kill the soul“. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy “both soul and body in hell“. Matt 10:28

The Spirit/Soul of man is only killed in hell by God!

As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. James 2:26

The Soul\Spirit leaves the Body and is present with the Lord or in Hades! This is where the Arians err in their basic Christology, is they think that we are mere flesh and blood, when in fact we are Spirit/soul beings that live in these flesh tents that will be changed someday. We are made in the image of God, and after his likeness, who is a Spirit being,

They could kill his body but they could not kill his Spirit/Soul. “The resurrection and the life”, Jesus Eternal Spirit, for he also by John's own words is called the “Eternal life that was with the Father in the beginning. 1 John 1:1-3

Jesus “Eternal Spirit did not die!

Blessings WJ

[KangarooJack]

WorshippingJesus said:

Quote

And John also narrates and tells us it was Jesus speaking of himself… Then the Jews demanded of him, “What miraculous sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?” Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I WILL RAISE IT AGAIN IN THREE DAYS.” The Jews replied, “It has taken forty six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” BUT THE TEMPLE HE HAD SPOKEN OF WAS HIS BODY.” John 2:18-21 Jesus could have said “my Father will raise it up”, but he didn’t. In fact Jesus was in the center of the earth for three days and three nights alive like Jonah who prayed to the Lord!

WJ,
Yes indeed! It says that “He (Jesus) had spoken of the temple of His body.” So He was not quoting the Father (there is no scripture where the Father said this). I was also thinking that Jesus could have said “My Father will raise it up.” But He said, “I will raise it up….”

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
He was only speaking of his body.
The Lord is the Spirit.

[GeneBalthrop]

Thinker………. Jesus was not quoting anyone it was the FATHER (IN) Him speaking directly through HIM. Mark 13:11…BUT WHEN THEY SHALL LEAD YOU UP, AND DELIVER YOU UP, TAKE NO THOUGHT BEFOREHAND WAT YOU SHALL SPEAK, NEITHER DO YE PREMEDITATE: BUT WHATSOEVER SHALL BE GIVEN YOU IN THAT HOUR, THAT SPEAK YE FOR IT IS (NOT YE) THAT SPEAK, BUT THE HOLY GHOST . and again God who spoke to us in times past through the Prophets Has in these latter day spoken to us (THROUGH) A SON. , and again “the words i am telling you are (NOT) MY WORDS , but the words of Him who sent ME.

But when you are deluded thinking Jesus is GOD himself that was speaking His own words and Glorifying HIMSELF. You are unable to really believe those scriptures . IMO

peace and love…………………gene

[Jodi Lee]

I don't want to get lost from the original point of this thread, so I'd appreciate it TT if you could tell us if you still believe that YHWH is Jesus? If you still believe so, then I'd appreciate an explanation as to how that is possible given the fact that we are specifically told in the OT that YHWH is to be the Father OF the coming Messiah.

Thanks,  Jodi

[Jodi Lee]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 23 2009,05:45)

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 22 2009,12:56) Jodi Lee said: Quote Jesus is not saying that he raises himself from the dead, he lays down his life and takes his life. He is saying that it is by his choice that he laid down his life for others and had it taken from him, and notice it was a command he was receiving from his Father. Jodi, You totally misconstrue what Jesus said. Others did not take His life from Him. He clearly said so. “No man takes my life from Me.” He was saying that He alone had the authority to take His life and then to take it again. You missed the “again” part of His statement. He had the power to raise up His own life, Quote Destroy this temple and I will raise it up and, Quote I Myself am the resurrection and the life (11:25) The pronoun is emphatic in the Greek, “I MYSELF am the resurrection and the life.” Quote What scripture were the disciples talking about, when they said they believed the scripture that had said, “and in three days I will raise it up?” I don't know, I have not found one in my bible that says that specifically, but what we DO have, which I believe is rather key is that YHWH says that HE would not let the holy One see corruption, and as well we see that it was in FACT our Heavenly Father who is said to raise Jesus from the dead. When spoken of the resurrection after it occurred there exists NO scripture that says Jesus raised himself from the dead, ONLY the Father is mentioned. Trinitarians confess that the resurrection was an act of the trinity. So I would not dispute that the Father raised Jesus from the dead. We do not need to discuss those Scriptures which attribute the resurrection to the Father. We must discuss those which attribute the resurrection of Jesus to the Son and to the Spirit. Jesus said, “Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.” You said that Jesus was “quoting” the Father. But the scriptures you offer do not contain these words. The Jews were asking for a sign from Jesus HIMSELF,  “What sign do YOU show us, since YOU do these things.”  And He replied saying, “Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.” The Jews asked for a sign from Jesus directly and He directly answered saying what HE HIMSELF would do. This is the simple reading of the text. Quote I MYSELF am the resurrection and the life (John 11:25) JESUS IS THE RESURRECTION! thinker Hi Jack Exactly! And John also narrates and tells us it was Jesus speaking of himself… Then the Jews demanded of him, “What miraculous sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?” Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I WILL RAISE IT AGAIN IN THREE DAYS.” The Jews replied, “It has taken forty six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” BUT THE TEMPLE HE HAD SPOKEN OF WAS HIS BODY.” John 2:18-21 Jesus could have said “my Father will raise it up”, but he didn’t. In fact Jesus was in the center of the earth for three days and three nights alive like Jonah who prayed to the Lord! Do not be afraid of those who “kill the body but cannot kill the soul“. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy “both soul and body in hell“. Matt 10:28 The Spirit/Soul of man is only killed in hell by God! As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. James 2:26 The Soul\Spirit leaves the Body and is present with the Lord or in Hades! This is where the Arians err in their basic Christology, is they think that we are mere flesh and blood, when in fact we are Spirit/soul beings that live in these flesh tents that will be changed someday. We are made in the image of God, and after his likeness, who is a Spirit being, They could kill his body but they could not kill his Spirit/Soul. “The resurrection and the life”, Jesus Eternal Spirit, for he also by John's own words is called the “Eternal life that was with the Father in the beginning. 1 John 1:1-3 Jesus “Eternal Spirit did not die! Blessings WJ

The Hebrew word for soul and Greek word for soul is shown to represent the LIFE of a person, of which is said to die and be destroyed!

WJ said, “The Soul\Spirit leaves the Body and is present with the Lord or in Hades! This is where the Arians err in their basic Christology, is they think that we are mere flesh and blood, when in fact we are Spirit/soul beings that live in these flesh tents that will be changed someday. We are made in the image of God, and after his likeness, who is a Spirit being,”

WJ couldn't be more confused, he teaches the traditions of man rooted from the teachings of Plato, NOT from the foundations of truth built for us in the Old Testament, and carried over into the New.  WJ teaches pure paganism.

Scripture shows clearly that the soul or life of a person DIES, it does not separate from their body. Such a statement comes directly out of the pagan philosopher Plato, and not from the bible.

=====================================
Original WordWord Origin
Xpnfrom (05314)

Transliterated WordTDNT Entry

NepheshTWOT – 1395a
Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech
neh'-fesh    
Noun Feminine

Definition
1.soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
a.that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
b.living being
c.living being (with life in the blood)
d.the man himself, self, person or individual
e.seat of the appetites
f.seat of emotions and passions
g.activity of mind
1.dubious
h.activity of the will
1.dubious
i.activity of the character
1.dubious

King James Word Usage – Total: 753
soul 475, life 117, person 29, mind 15, heart 15, creature 9, body 8, himself 8, yourselves 6, dead 5, will 4, desire 4, man 3, themselves 3, any 3, appetite 2, miscellaneous 47

===========================================

Pr 19:16 He who keeps the commandment keeps his soul, But he who is careless of his ways will die.

Eze 18:4 “Behold,
all souls are Mine; The soul of the father As well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die.

Eze 18:20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

Eze 33:9 Nevertheless if you warn the wicked to turn from his way, and he does not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul.

Ps 30:3 O Lord, You brought my soul up from the grave; You have kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.

Ps 49:15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave, For He shall receive me. Selah

Ps 86:13 For great is Your mercy toward me, And You have delivered my soul from the depths of Sheol.

Ps 33:19 To deliver their soul from death, And to keep them alive in famine.

Ps 56:13 For You have delivered my soul from death. Have You not kept my feet from falling, That I may walk before God In the light of the living?

Ps 78:50 He made a path for His anger; He did not spare their soul from death, But gave their life over to the plague,

Ps 116:8 For You have delivered my soul from death, My eyes from tears, And my feet from falling.

Scripture from OT shows clearly that the soul is something that is destroyed, it is something that dies. The soul represents a person’s LIFE, of which can be taken away and can cease to exist.  The Old Testament is very clear that when you die there exists NO conscious awareness.

Psalms 115:17 The dead do not praise the Lord, Nor any who go down into silence.

Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of You; In the grave who will give You thanks?

Isaiah 38:18 For Sheol cannot thank You, Death cannot praise You; Those who go down to the pit cannot hope for Your truth.

Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going.

Scripture speaks of death as being like sleep.

Ps 13:3 Consider and hear me, O Lord my God; Enlighten my eyes, Lest I sleep the sleep of death;

Daniel 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

This brings us to the New Testament, for Jesus also taught that death was like sleep.

John 11:11 These things He said, and after that He said to them, “Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.” 12 Then His disciples said, “Lord, if he sleeps he will get well.” 13 However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep.

The New Testament teaches as well that the soul does not represent some immortal part of us but it represents something that DIES.

============================================
Strong's Number:   5590 Browse Lexicon

Original WordWord Origin
yuchvfrom (5594)

Transliterated WordTDNT Entry

Psuche9:608,1342
Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech
psoo-khay'    
Noun Feminine

Definition
1.breath
a.the breath of life
1.the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing 1a
b.of animals 1a
2.of men
1.life
2.that in which there is life
1.a living being, a living soul
the soul
.the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
a.the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
b.the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)

King James Word Usage – Total: 105
soul 58, life 40, mind 3, heart 1, heartily + (1537)&version=kjv 1, not translated 2

=================================================

Mt 10:39  He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Mt 16:25  For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Mt 16:26  For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Mt 20:28  Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Mt 26:38  Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

Jesus gives his LIFE, or psuche ALSO translated as soul as a ransom for many. In other words the soul of Jesus did in fact die. There is NO scriptural base whatsoever to teach that part of man is immortal, separate from the body.

WJ, said, “Jesus “Eternal Spirit did not die!” This is pure  and utter FALSEHOOD!

This is to teach anti-christ. Anyone who speaks of Jesus being God, denies the fact that scripture says specifically that we are to believe that Jesus was the Messiah, the HUMAN Being promised to come, not a god promised to become  a man, partially die and then become some fully eternal god again. Anyone who teaches that any part of Jesus was immortal is IMO  taking the truth of Christ and making a false Christ.  

Joh 10:11   I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

Joh 10:15  As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Joh 15:13  Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Ac 2:27  Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Ac 2:31   He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Ac 3:23   And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Jas 1:21   Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls

Jas 5:20   Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

1Pe 1:9   Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls

1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Jo 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

Re 16:3  And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

Scripture is consistently clear that the soul is not an immortal part of us, but it in fact DIES.

Matthew 10:28 speaks nothing of some conscious awareness for a soul or life of a man in the grave

Mt 10:28  And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able
to destroy both soul and body in hell.

What is this scripture referring to? A man can certainly take away another person’s life, but does man have power above God, destroying a man’s soul or life for good? ONLY God has the final say in a man’s life. Fear God because it is He who has the power over our lives and whether or not they remain dead in the grave or they are resurrected. Man can put us in the grave, but it is God that can keep it there for good.

This is a common passage that people irresponsibly use to teach that part of man is immortal.

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.

I think we should note that there is not a word here about ever being without a literal body.  We groan to go from a mortal body into an immortal one that is from heaven. This is shown to come upon the resurrection, not immediately after death. We sleep the sleep of death in unconsciousness until that time.

5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. 6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

What is Paul talking about? Does Paul ever talk about being literally absent from a physical body? Does he ever talk about a reward other then the resurrection, or having hope in anything other than the resurrection and eternal life? No, he does not. What he does tell us is that if we live in Christ we have put to death the deeds of our bodies. When we ARE present with the Lord, following the Spirit of the Lord, we have crucified our flesh with it’s passions and desires.  

Galatians 5:24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Ro 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,* who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Ro 8:4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Ro 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

When we live according to the desires of our bodies we are absent from God!

If this wasn’t all proof enough that the soul of man does indeed die, and that there is NO immediate reward for a conscious part of us when we die, there is more!

Ac 2:29 “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.

Acts 2:34 For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: 'The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand,

Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. 15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.

Joh 14:2 In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

Re 21:2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Mt 22:32 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”

Mr 12:26 But concerning the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the burning bush passage, how God spoke to him, saying, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'?

Lu 20:37 -But even Moses showed in the burning bush passage that the dead are raised, when he called the Lord 'the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.'

John 5:28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth–those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Joh 5:29 and come forth–those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Joh 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.

Re 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Jesus was FULLY mortal, and he FULLY DIED, however YHWH  raised him from the dead and Jesus became the first HUMAN given eternal life. As YHWH raised Jesus from the DEAD, we too have faith that we will also be raised from the dead. Many wait for the promise, sleeping the sleep of death.

[Cindy]

Jodi  Very good Post. however you do not believe that Jesus preexisted His Birth as a Human.   You have good insides and God has shown you many things like the Soul.  Georg has said that too.  But why
don't you believe in a preexisting of Christ.  Again I will give you those Scriptures again.

Col. 1:15  He (Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

verse 16  For by Him all things were created that are in Heaven or that are in Earth. visible and invisible………

verse 17 And He is before all things, and in  Him all things consist.

Rev. 3:14  ….” These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the beginning of the creation of God,”

John 1:1  ” In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  

verse 3  “All things were made through Him, and nothing was made that was made.”

verse 14 And the Word became flesh abd dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

In John 17:5  Jesus Himself said this:” And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory I had with You before the Word was.

I do have one more Scripture and verses that most think it is Wisdom, I don;t, God had Wisdom from eternally on. To say it is wisdom makes no sense to me.

Provervs 8:22-30

Peace and Love Irene

[Jodi Lee]

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Aug. 25 2009,05:42)

I don't want to get lost from the original point of this thread, so I'd appreciate it TT if you could tell us if you still believe that YHWH is Jesus? If you still believe so, then I'd appreciate an explanation as to how that is possible given the fact that we are specifically told in the OT that YHWH is to be the Father OF the coming Messiah. Thanks,  Jodi

Still waiting The Thinker, for you to answer my question.

Thanks, Jodi

[RokkaMan]

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Aug. 29 2009,07:43)

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Aug. 25 2009,05:42) I don't want to get lost from the original point of this thread, so I'd appreciate it TT if you could tell us if you still believe that YHWH is Jesus? If you still believe so, then I'd appreciate an explanation as to how that is possible given the fact that we are specifically told in the OT that YHWH is to be the Father OF the coming Messiah. Thanks,  Jodi Still waiting The Thinker, for you to answer my question. Thanks, Jodi

If YHWH is to be the literal Father of Jesus, then Jesus is YHWH Jr.

[NickHassan]

Hi R,
Why add to scripture?
Mary really was his mother and he was a man

[Jodi Lee]

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Aug. 26 2009,06:10)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 23 2009,05:45) Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 22 2009,12:56) Jodi Lee said: Quote Jesus is not saying that he raises himself from the dead, he lays down his life and takes his life. He is saying that it is by his choice that he laid down his life for others and had it taken from him, and notice it was a command he was receiving from his Father. Jodi, You totally misconstrue what Jesus said. Others did not take His life from Him. He clearly said so. “No man takes my life from Me.” He was saying that He alone had the authority to take His life and then to take it again. You missed the “again” part of His statement. He had the power to raise up His own life, Quote Destroy this temple and I will raise it up and, Quote I Myself am the resurrection and the life (11:25) The pronoun is emphatic in the Greek, “I MYSELF am the resurrection and the life.” Quote What scripture were the disciples talking about, when they said they believed the scripture that had said, “and in three days I will raise it up?” I don't know, I have not found one in my bible that says that specifically, but what we DO have, which I believe is rather key is that YHWH says that HE would not let the holy One see corruption, and as well we see that it was in FACT our Heavenly Father who is said to raise Jesus from the dead. When spoken of the resurrection after it occurred there exists NO scripture that says Jesus raised himself from the dead, ONLY the Father is mentioned. Trinitarians confess that the resurrection was an act of the trinity. So I would not dispute that the Father raised Jesus from the dead. We do not need to discuss those Scriptures which attribute the resurrection to the Father. We must discuss those which attribute the resurrection of Jesus to the Son and to the Spirit. Jesus said, “Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.” You said that Jesus was “quoting” the Father. But the scriptures you offer do not contain these words. The Jews were asking for a sign from Jesus HIMSELF,  “What sign do YOU show us, since YOU do these things.”  And He replied saying, “Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.” The Jews asked for a sign from Jesus directly and He directly answered saying what HE HIMSELF would do. This is the simple reading of the text. Quote I MYSELF am the resurrection and the life (John 11:25) JESUS IS THE RESURRECTION! thinker Hi Jack Exactly! And John also narrates and tells us it was Jesus speaking of himself… Then the Jews demanded of him, “What miraculous sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?” Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I WILL RAISE IT AGAIN IN THREE DAYS.” The Jews replied, “It has taken forty six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” BUT THE TEMPLE HE HAD SPOKEN OF WAS HIS BODY.” John 2:18-21 Jesus could have said “my Father will raise it up”, but he didn’t. In fact Jesus was in the center of the earth for three days and three nights alive like Jonah who prayed to the Lord! Do not be afraid of those who “kill the body but cannot kill the soul“. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy “both soul and body in hell“. Matt 10:28 The Spirit/Soul of man is only killed in hell by God! As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. James 2:26 The Soul\Spirit leaves the Body and is present with the Lord or in Hades! This is where the Arians err in their basic Christology, is they think that we are mere flesh and blood, when in fact we are Spirit/soul beings that live in these flesh tents that will be changed someday. We are made in the image of God, and after his likeness, who is a Spirit being, They could kill his body but they could not kill his Spirit/Soul. “The resurrection and the life”, Jesus Eternal Spirit, for he also by John's own words is called the “Eternal life that was with the Father in the beginning. 1 John 1:1-3 Jesus “Eternal Spirit did not die! Blessings WJ The Hebrew word for soul and Greek word for soul is shown to represent the LIFE of a person, of which is said to die and be destroyed! WJ said, “The Soul\Spirit leaves the Body and is present with the Lord or in Hades! This is where the Arians err in their basic Christology, is they think that we are mere flesh and blood, when in fact we are Spirit/soul beings that live in these flesh tents that will be changed someday. We are made in the image of God, and after his likeness, who is a Spirit being,” WJ couldn't be more confused, he teaches the traditions of man rooted from the teachings of Plato, NOT from the foundations of truth built for us in the Old Testament, and carried over into the New.  WJ teaches pure paganism. Scripture shows clearly that the soul or life of a person DIES, it does not separate from their body. Such a statement comes directly out of the pagan philosopher Plato, and not from the bible. ===================================== Original WordWord Origin Xpnfrom (05314) Transliterated WordTDNT Entry NepheshTWOT – 1395a Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech neh'-fesh     Noun Feminine Definition 1.soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion a.that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man b.living being c.living being (with life in the blood) d.the man himself, self, person or individual e.seat of the appetites f.seat of emotions and passions g.activity of mind 1.dubious h.activity of the will 1.dubious i.activity of the character 1.dubious King James Word Usage – Total: 753 soul 475, life 117, person 29, mind 15, heart 15, creature 9, body 8, himself 8, yourselves 6, dead 5, will 4, desire 4, man 3, themselves 3, any 3, appetite 2 , miscellaneous 47 =========================================== Pr 19:16 He who keeps the commandment keeps his soul, But he who is careless of his ways will die. Eze 18:4 “Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father As well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die. Eze 18:20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. Eze 33:9 Nevertheless if you warn the wicked to turn from his way, and he does not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul. Ps 30:3 O Lord, You brought my soul up from the grave; You have kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit. Ps 49:15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave, For He shall receive me. Selah Ps 86:13 For great is Your mercy toward me, And You have delivered my soul from the depths of Sheol. Ps 33:19 To deliver their soul from death, And to keep them alive in famine. Ps 56:13 For You have delivered my soul from death. Have You not kept my feet from falling, That I may walk before God In the light of the living? Ps 78:50 He made a path for His anger; He did not spare their soul from death, But gave their life over to the plague, Ps 116:8 For You have delivered my soul from death, My eyes from tears, And my feet from falling. Scripture from OT shows clearly that the soul is something that is destroyed, it is something that dies. The soul represents a person’s LIFE, of which can be taken away and can cease to exist.  The Old Testament is very clear that when you die there exists NO conscious awareness. Psalms 115:17 The dead do not praise the Lord, Nor any who go down into silence. Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of You; In the grave who will give You thanks? Isaiah 38:18 For Sheol cannot thank You, Death cannot praise You; Those who go down to the pit cannot hope for Your truth. Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going. Scripture speaks of death as being like sleep. Ps 13:3 Consider and hear me, O Lord my God; Enlighten my eyes, Lest I sleep the sleep of death; Daniel 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt. This brings us to the New Testament, for Jesus also taught that death was like sleep. John 11:11 These things He said, and after that He said to them, “Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.” 12 Then His disciples said, “Lord, if he sleeps he will get well.” 13 However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep. The New Testament teaches as well that the soul does not represent some immortal part of us but it represents something that DIES. ============================================ Strong's Number:   5590 Browse Lexicon Original WordWord Origin yuchvfrom (5594) Transliterated WordTDNT Entry Psuche9:608,1342 Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech psoo-khay'     Noun Feminine Definition 1.breath a.the breath of life 1.the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing 1a b.of animals 1a 2.of men 1.life 2.that in which there is life 1.a living being, a living soul the soul .the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.) a.the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life b.the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body) King James Word Usage – Total: 105 soul 58, life 40, mind 3, heart 1, heartily + (1537)&version=kjv 1, not translated 2 ================================================= Mt 10:39  He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. Mt 16:25  For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. Mt 16:26  For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? Mt 20:28  Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. Mt 26:38  Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me. Jesus gives his LIFE, or psuche ALSO translated as soul as a ransom for many. In other words the soul of Jesus did in fact die. There is NO scriptural base whatsoever to teach that part of man is immortal, separate from the body. WJ, said, “Jesus “Eternal Spirit did not die!” This is pure  and utter FALSEHOOD! This is to teach anti-christ. Anyone who speaks of Jesus being God, denies the fact that scripture says specifically that we are to believe that Jesus was the Messiah, the HUMAN Being promised to come, not a god promised to become  a man, partially die and then become some fully eternal god again. Anyone who teaches that any part of Jesus was immortal is IMO  taking the truth of Christ and making a false Christ.   Joh 10:11   I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. Joh 10:15  As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. Joh 15:13  Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ac 2:27  Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Ac 2:31   He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. Ac 3:23   And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. Jas 1:21   Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls Jas 5:20   Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. 1Pe 1:9   Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls 1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. Jo 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. Re 16:3  And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea. Scripture is consistently clear that the soul is not an immortal part of us, but it in fact DIES. Matthew 10:28 sp eaks nothing of some conscious awareness for a soul or life of a man in the grave Mt 10:28  And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. What is this scripture referring to? A man can certainly take away another person’s life, but does man have power above God, destroying a man’s soul or life for good? ONLY God has the final say in a man’s life. Fear God because it is He who has the power over our lives and whether or not they remain dead in the grave or they are resurrected. Man can put us in the grave, but it is God that can keep it there for good. This is a common passage that people irresponsibly use to teach that part of man is immortal. 2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. I think we should note that there is not a word here about ever being without a literal body.  We groan to go from a mortal body into an immortal one that is from heaven. This is shown to come upon the resurrection, not immediately after death. We sleep the sleep of death in unconsciousness until that time. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. 6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. What is Paul talking about? Does Paul ever talk about being literally absent from a physical body? Does he ever talk about a reward other then the resurrection, or having hope in anything other than the resurrection and eternal life? No, he does not. What he does tell us is that if we live in Christ we have put to death the deeds of our bodies. When we ARE present with the Lord, following the Spirit of the Lord, we have crucified our flesh with it’s passions and desires.   Galatians 5:24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Ro 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,* who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Ro 8:4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Ro 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. When we live according to the desires of our bodies we are absent from God! If this wasn’t all proof enough that the soul of man does indeed die, and that there is NO immediate reward for a conscious part of us when we die, there is more! Ac 2:29 “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. Acts 2:34 For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: 'The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. 15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them. Joh 14:2 In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. Re 21:2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Mt 22:32 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” Mr 12:26 But concerning the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the burning bush passage, how God spoke to him, saying, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? Lu 20:37 -But even Moses showed in the burning bush passage that the dead are raised, when he called the Lord 'the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.' John 5:28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth–those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. Joh 5:29 and come forth–those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. Joh 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. Re 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. Jesus was FULLY mortal, and he FULLY DIED, however YHWH  raised him from the dead and Jesus became the first HUMAN given eternal life. As YHWH raised Jesus from the DEAD, we too have faith that we will also be raised from the dead. Many wait for the promise, sleeping the sleep of death.

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