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Isaiah 9:6 For a Child hath been born to us, A Son hath been given to us, And the princely power is on his shoulder, And He doth call his name Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace. 7 To the increase of the princely power, And of peace, there is no end, On the throne of David, and on his kingdom, To establish it, and to support it, In judgment and in righteousness, Henceforth, even unto the age, The zeal of Jehovah of Hosts doth this.
YHWH is the One True God the FATHER. He brings forth a Son that will establish peace.
1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,
This scripture clearly states that there is One true God who’s identity is explicitly the FATHER. To say that there exists one God made up of three persons is to make the word of God an utter lie. =(
Timothy is written AFTER the resurrection and it clearly tells us that Jesus is NOT the One God, he is the MAN who is our mediator to the one true God. As well to say that Jesus is YHWH from the Old Testament is to be completely delusional.
YHWH promised to bring forth a Son, that Son was Jesus. YHWH promised that He would bring forth a human being of the seed of David and He would be to him a Father, and the man would be to Him as a Son.
2 Samuel 7:12 “When your days are fulfilled and you rest with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who will come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be his Father, and he shall be My son.
Heb 1:5 For to which of the angels did He ever say: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You”? And again: “I will be to Him a Father, And He shall be to Me a Son”?
Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree. 31 Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.
The God of the father’s of Israel who spoke to the prophets was not a pre-existent Jesus it was the Father of Jesus, known by the name of YHWH.
Deuteronomy 18:15 `A prophet out of thy midst, out of thy brethren, like to me, doth Jehovah thy God raise up to thee — unto him ye hearken; 16 according to all that thou didst ask from Jehovah thy God, in Horeb, in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not add to hear the voice of Jehovah my God, and this great fire let me not see any more, and I die not; 17 and Jehovah saith unto me, They have done well that they have spoken; 18 a prophet I raise up to them, out of the midst of their brethren, like to thee; and I have given my words in his mouth, and he hath spoken unto them all that which I command him; 19 and it hath been — the man who doth not hearken unto My words which he doth speak in My name, I require it of him.
Ac 13:23 From this man's seed, according to the promise, God raised up for Israel a Savior–Jesus—
Mt 2:15 and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called My Son.”Acts 3:20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. 22 For Moses truly said to the fathers, 'The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you.
Jesus did not pre-exist as the word of God in the Old Testament, he was the Messiah that was promised to come.
Psalms 102:12 And Thou, O Jehovah, to the age abidest, And Thy memorial to all generations. 13 Thou — Thou risest — Thou pitiest Zion, For the time to favour her, For the appointed time hath come. 14 For Thy servants have been pleased with her stones, And her dust they favour. 15 And nations fear the name of Jehovah, And all kings of the earth Thine honour, 16 For Jehovah hath builded Zion, He hath been seen in His honour, 17 He turned unto the prayer of the destitute, And He hath not despised their prayer. 18 This is written for a later generation, And the people created do praise Jah. 19 For He hath looked From the high place of His sanctuary. Jehovah from heaven unto earth looked attentively, 20 To hear the groan of the prisoner, To loose sons of death, 21 To declare in Zion the name of Jehovah, And His praise in Jerusalem, 22 In the peoples being gathered together, And the kingdoms — to serve Jehovah. 23 He hath humbled in the way my power, He hath shortened my days. 24 I say, `My God, take me not up in the midst of my days,' Through all generations [are] Thine years. 25 Beforetime the earth Thou didst found, And the work of Thy hands are the heavens. 26 They — They perish, and Thou remainest, And all of them as a garment become old, As clothing Thou changest them, And they are changed. 27 And Thou art the same, and Thine years are not finished.
The heavens are the work of YHWH’s hands, He does not change, however He makes MAN to change!
1 Corinthians 15:20 And now, Christ hath risen out of the dead — the first-fruits of those sleeping he became, 21 for since through man is the death, also through man is a rising again of the dead,
……..51 lo, I tell you a secret; we indeed shall not all sleep, and we all shall be changed; 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, in the last trumpet, for it shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we — we shall be changed: 53 for it behoveth this corruptible to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality; 54 and when this corruptible may have put on incorruption, and this mortal may have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, `The Death was swallowed up — to victory;
JESUS was in FACT a mortal human, but he like we will be, WAS CHANGED from a mortal to an immortal.
Jesus is the firstborn of the dead, he was in the beginning with the Father as a plan, but was manifested to us when he was born unto Mary. Jesus fulfilled the promise that was in the beginning with YHWH of eternal life, when He raised Jesus from the dead.
1 Timothy 1:8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 11 to which I was appointed a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
1 Peter 1:19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
Hebrews 1:9[/b] thou didst love righteousness, and didst hate lawlessness; because of this did He anoint thee — God, thy God — with oil of gladness above thy partners;' 10 and, `Thou, at the beginning, Lord, the earth didst found, and a work of thy hands are the heavens; 11 these shall perish, and Thou dost remain, and
all, as a garment, shall become old, 12 and as a mantle Thou shall roll them together, and they shall be changed, and Thou art the same, and Thy years shall not fail.' 13 And unto which of the messengers said He ever, `Sit at My right hand, till I may make thine enemies thy footstool?'[/b]I must correct my understanding from before!! In light of reading further scriptures it is completely clear to me that the ‘Lord’ spoken of in verse 10 is speaking of YHWH, NOT Jesus. Jesus was anointed above his partakers, he was the first to receive his CHANGE, the change of mortality to immortality of which YHWH had promised in the beginning.
Jesus is the firstborn from the dead and it is because of his works through his Father that there is a new beginning with a new heaven and earth. However Hebrews 10-12 is referring directly to Psalms 102, which shows, as well as many other scriptures, that YHWH created heaven and earth. YHWH is shown directly to be the Father, He is the one that never receives change, and keeps His promises of which He established in the beginning.
I thank YHWH who continues to bring me out of deception and gives me further clarity to the scripture, for even I, who does not believe in the Trinity, am still finding myself under some of their delusions when it comes to interpreting scripture.
Jodi…………Amen to that post Sis. GOD is revealing more and more to you. To them that Have (MORE) shall be given , and them that Have (NOT) even what they have shall be taken away. We have all been duped by the Lies fostered by the Doctrine of Trinity and Preexistences and doctrines of Devil and demons. We are tole to come out of all those teachings that we will not recieve of the plagues, some have come part way and still linger in some, others are shedding themselves by GOD Spirit from all of them. IMO
peace and much love to you and your, It revives my Spirit to read your post and see the soundness in them………..gene
Thanks Gene,
I hope people are really starting to question their understanding of Jesus being YHWH, both trinitarians and pre-existent folks.
YHWH is clearly the Father due to the fact that it was YHWH that promised He would raise up an eternal human king of the seed of David and be to him a Father.
Love to you, Jodi
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Aug. 20 2009,04:11) Thanks Gene, I hope people are really starting to question their understanding of Jesus being YHWH, both trinitarians and pre-existent folks.
YHWH is clearly the Father due to the fact that it was YHWH that promised He would raise up an eternal human king of the seed of David and be to him a Father.
Love to you, Jodi
“Before Abraham was I AM.”Jesus
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Aug. 20 2009,04:11) Thanks Gene, I hope people are really starting to question their understanding of Jesus being YHWH, both trinitarians and pre-existent folks.
YHWH is clearly the Father due to the fact that it was YHWH that promised He would raise up an eternal human king of the seed of David and be to him a Father.
Love to you, Jodi
Jesus participated in the raising up of what Jodi calls “an eternal human.”Young's Literal Translation:
“Jesus answered and said to them, `Destroy this sanctuary, and in three days I will raise it up.'
The Jews, therefore, said, `Forty and six years was this sanctuary building, and wilt thou in three days raise it up?'
but he spake concerning the sanctuary of his body;
when, then, he was raised out of the dead, his disciples
remembered that he said this to them, and they believed the Writing, and the word that Jesus said.” (John 2:19-22)Please keep your reply brief Jodi. Just exegete this passage without your usual pretexting.
thinker
Jodi lee wrote:
Quote 1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, Titus 2:13:
“waiting for the blessed hope and manifestation of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ,”
The passage in 1 Timothy says that Christ was man. But Titus 2 says that He is “God and Savior.”
btw,
You said that Jesus is the “eternal human.” There is no such thing. When He was glorified He put off His humanity and we will one day put off our humanity. Jesus said that we will be “as the angels.” Therefore, there is no such thing as an “eternal human.”thinker
Jodi,
I envy your zeal – I had it once.
Very nice work/study. Thank you for sharing it – I stand in agreement with you.
Love,
MandyQuote (thethinker @ Aug. 20 2009,05:44) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Aug. 20 2009,04:11) Thanks Gene, I hope people are really starting to question their understanding of Jesus being YHWH, both trinitarians and pre-existent folks.
YHWH is clearly the Father due to the fact that it was YHWH that promised He would raise up an eternal human king of the seed of David and be to him a Father.
Love to you, Jodi
“Before Abraham was I AM.”Jesus
WHO IS Jesus? He is the fulfillment of the promise that was from the beginning. Before Abraham ever existed, the promise that was later given unto him existed. That promise was eternal life….that promise was in the coming of a human Messiah that would save the world.TT, it seems evident that you are unfamiliar with these scriptures. I think it would be of great service to you if you familiarized yourself with them that they might work to dissolve the delusional trinitarian doctrine that has it's hold on you.
1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life– 2 the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us– 3 that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things we write to you that your joy may be full.
1 John 5:11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
Titus 1:1 Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness, 2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, 3 but has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior;
Ac 13:23 From this man's seed, according to the promise, God raised up for Israel a Savior—Jesus—……………30 But God raised Him from the dead. 31 He was seen for many days by those who came up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are His witnesses to the people. 32 And we declare to you glad tidings—that promise which was made to the fathers. 33 God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm: 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.' 34 And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus: 'I will give you the sure mercies of David.' 35 Therefore He also says in another Psalm: 'You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption.' 36 “For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption; 37 but He whom God raised up saw no corruption. 38 Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; 39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Ro 4:16Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
1 Peter 1:19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
1 Timothy 1:8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 11 to which I was appointed a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
Matthew 22: 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven. 31 But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, 32 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” 33 And when the multitudes heard this, they were astonished at His teaching.
Luke 1:5 As He spoke to our fathers, To Abraham and to his seed forever.”
John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.” 57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
Scripture is clear that Abraham never saw Jesus, he was given a PROMISE containing Jesus, and Abraham rejoiced knowing what would lay ahead after his death.
Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go.
Galatians 3:6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”……… 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man's covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. 16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. 18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one. 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has co
nfined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 20 2009,06:04) Jodi lee wrote: Quote 1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, Titus 2:13:
“waiting for the blessed hope and manifestation of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ,”
The passage in 1 Timothy says that Christ was man. But Titus 2 says that He is “God and Savior.”
btw,
You said that Jesus is the “eternal human.” There is no such thing. When He was glorified He put off His humanity and we will one day put off our humanity. Jesus said that we will be “as the angels.” Therefore, there is no such thing as an “eternal human.”thinker
Hi TT,Rather unfortunate that you cannot discuss the topic at hand.
You say that YHWH is Jesus, however YHWH says that He would bring forth a human Messiah of whom He would be a Father to. This makes it impossible for Jesus to be YHWH!!
Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 20 2009,06:04) Jodi lee wrote: Quote 1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, Titus 2:13:
“waiting for the blessed hope and manifestation of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ,”
The passage in 1 Timothy says that Christ was man. But Titus 2 says that He is “God and Savior.”
btw,
You said that Jesus is the “eternal human.” There is no such thing. When He was glorified He put off His humanity and we will one day put off our humanity. Jesus said that we will be “as the angels.” Therefore, there is no such thing as an “eternal human.”thinker
TT what parts of the bible do you read, or should I say choose not to read? It’s evident that you are missing some key scriptures.Jesus is STILL referred to as a MAN, a man is a human being. The Son of Man is coming, he is returning to fulfill the promise that YHWH made to David and Abraham, that a human being would sit on the throne of David and be a king forever. Jesus was a MAN made into an immortal man, that still makes him a human being. Jesus is the ROOT and OFFSPRING of David, in other words Jesus has DNA of a human being of which contains the genes of David.
Mt 24:30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mt 24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Mt 24:39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Mt 24:44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
Mt 25:13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.
Mt 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory
Mt 26:64 Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
Mr 13:26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Joh 1:51 And He said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man.”
Joh 5:27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.
Joh 6:27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”
Ac 7:56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus
Lu 24:39 Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”
Acts 2:30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, 31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.
Re 22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.
The promise that YHWH had in the beginning was eternal life to human beings. Why can’t we believe the scriptures? Jesus was raised from the dead, the body that he has today was the body he had on earth, however it was CHANGED from being corruptible to being incorruptible, from mortal to being immortal.
TT, we have been through this before. We are shown after Jesus was raised from the dead that Jesus HAS a GOD himself, who is the Father YHWH.
Jesus was our savior because of the Father's Work. The Father is our savior and he accomplished that through making Jesus our savior, so it can be said that both the Father and Jesus are our saviors. However what is crucial is that without the Father Jesus would not be a savior. Jesus did nothing of himself, he was seen as a God because the ONE TRUE GOD the Father gave him His powers so he could act as a God. Why cannot you see this important distinction TT?
Hi Jodi,
Indeed Jesus was raised from death in his tattered old mortal body.
But we will be remade like him in new heavenly and imperishable bodiesQuote (thethinker @ Aug. 20 2009,05:55) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Aug. 20 2009,04:11) Thanks Gene, I hope people are really starting to question their understanding of Jesus being YHWH, both trinitarians and pre-existent folks.
YHWH is clearly the Father due to the fact that it was YHWH that promised He would raise up an eternal human king of the seed of David and be to him a Father.
Love to you, Jodi
Jesus participated in the raising up of what Jodi calls “an eternal human.”Young's Literal Translation:
“Jesus answered and said to them, `Destroy this sanctuary, and in three days I will raise it up.'
The Jews, therefore, said, `Forty and six years was this sanctuary building, and wilt thou in three days raise it up?'
but he spake concerning the sanctuary of his body;
when, then, he was raised out of the dead, his disciples
remembered that he said this to them, and they believed the Writing, and the word that Jesus said.” (John 2:19-22)Please keep your reply brief Jodi. Just exegete this passage without your usual pretexting.
thinker
To keep it brief, we know that when the time came and Jesus died it was by the Father and His powers, that Jesus was raised from the dead. The role that Jesus himself played, ensuring that the Father would raise him, was remaining sinless, remaining faithful to God and never giving into his flesh.Jesus own works sufficient?
Jesus did nothing of himself, as I repeatedly have said. Jesus remained sinless because the Father's Spirit was working in him. Jesus was faithful to God through the work of God's Spirit that was in him.
Hi Jodi,
So the works of Jesus were of the anointing powers of God's Spirit [Acts10] .We can follow him into that anointing and that power.Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 20 2009,05:55) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Aug. 20 2009,04:11) Thanks Gene, I hope people are really starting to question their understanding of Jesus being YHWH, both trinitarians and pre-existent folks.
YHWH is clearly the Father due to the fact that it was YHWH that promised He would raise up an eternal human king of the seed of David and be to him a Father.
Love to you, Jodi
Jesus participated in the raising up of what Jodi calls “an eternal human.”Young's Literal Translation:
“Jesus answered and said to them, `Destroy this sanctuary, and in three days I will raise it up.'
The Jews, therefore, said, `Forty and six years was this sanctuary building, and wilt thou in three days raise it up?'
but he spake concerning the sanctuary of his body;
when, then, he was raised out of the dead, his disciples
remembered that he said this to them, and they believed the Writing, and the word that Jesus said.” (John 2:19-22)Please keep your reply brief Jodi. Just exegete this passage without your usual pretexting.
thinker
Acts 13:30 But God raised Him from the dead. 31 He was seen for many days by those who came up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are His witnesses to the people. 32 And we declare to you glad tidings–that promise which was made to the fathers. 33 God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm: 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.' 34 And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus: 'I will give you the sure mercies of David.' 35 Therefore He also says in another Psalm: 'You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption.' 36 “For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption; 37 but He whom God raised up saw no corruption. 38 Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; 39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go. 14 But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, 15 and killed the Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses
Acts 13:28 And though they found no cause for death in Him, they asked Pilate that He should be put to death. 29 Now when they had fulfilled all that was written concerning Him, they took Him down from the tree and laid Him in a tomb. 30 But God raised Him from the dead. 31 He was seen for many days by those who came up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are His witnesses to the people. 32 And we declare to you glad tidings–that promise which was made to the fathers. 33 God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm: 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.' 34 And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus: 'I will give you the sure mercies of David.'
Ro 6:4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors–not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
Ga 1:1 Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead),
Eph 1:20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
Acts 2:22 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know– 23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; 24 whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it.
John 2:19 Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” 20 Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” 21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 Therefore, when He had risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this to them; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had said.
Hmmm, after taking a closer look at the above passage and knowing what many other scriptures say, I believe that Jesus was quoting the Father and not speaking on behalf of himself.
First he was misunderstood, they thought Jesus was saying that he would raise up the temple. But he wasn't talking about raising the temple but his body, and scripture is clear that the Father raised Jesus body. How on earth would Jesus be able to raise his own body when he is DEAD? The disciples say that they believed the Scripture and the word of Jesus, Jesus must have been quoting the Father from a scripture, when he said, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
Hi Jodi,
When Jesus returns we will be like to him[1Jn]
Do you think we will have holes in our bodies if Jesus is still in the battered and torn perishable one?Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom[1Cor15]
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Aug. 20 2009,08:55) Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 20 2009,05:44) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Aug. 20 2009,04:11) Thanks Gene, I hope people are really starting to question their understanding of Jesus being YHWH, both trinitarians and pre-existent folks.
YHWH is clearly the Father due to the fact that it was YHWH that promised He would raise up an eternal human king of the seed of David and be to him a Father.
Love to you, Jodi
“Before Abraham was I AM.”Jesus
WHO IS Jesus? He is the fulfillment of the promise that was from the beginning. Before Abraham ever existed, the promise that was later given unto him existed. That promise was eternal life….that promise was in the coming of a human Messiah that would save the world.TT, it seems evident that you are unfamiliar with these scriptures. I think it would be of great service to you if you familiarized yourself with them that they might work to dissolve the delusional trinitarian doctrine that has it's hold on you.
1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life– 2 the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us– 3 that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things we write to you that your joy may be full.
1 John 5:11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
Titus 1:1 Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness, 2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, 3 but has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior;
Ac 13:23 From this man's seed, according to the promise, God raised up for Israel a Savior—Jesus—……………30 But God raised Him from the dead. 31 He was seen for many days by those who came up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are His witnesses to the people. 32 And we declare to you glad tidings—that promise which was made to the fathers. 33 God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm: 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.' 34 And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus: 'I will give you the sure mercies of David.' 35 Therefore He also says in another Psalm: 'You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption.' 36 “For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption; 37 but He whom God raised up saw no corruption. 38 Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; 39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Ro 4:16Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
1 Peter 1:19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
1 Timothy 1:8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 11 to which I was appointed a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
Matthew 22: 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven. 31 But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, 32 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” 33 And when the multitudes heard this, they were astonished at His teaching.
Luke 1:5 As He spoke to our fathers, To Abraham and to his seed forever.”
John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.” 57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
Scripture is clear that Abraham never saw Jesus, he was given a PROMISE containing Jesus, and Abraham rejoiced knowing what would lay ahead after his death.
Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go.
Galatians 3:6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”……… 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man's covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. 16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. 18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only,
but God is one. 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Paul said in Philippians 2 that Jesus existed in the form of God and made Himself nothing and took the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of men. And being found in fashion as a man He humbled Himself and became obedient unto death.None of the scriptures you have cited above cancel this truth.
thinker
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Aug. 21 2009,06:06) Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 20 2009,05:55) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Aug. 20 2009,04:11) Thanks Gene, I hope people are really starting to question their understanding of Jesus being YHWH, both trinitarians and pre-existent folks.
YHWH is clearly the Father due to the fact that it was YHWH that promised He would raise up an eternal human king of the seed of David and be to him a Father.
Love to you, Jodi
Jesus participated in the raising up of what Jodi calls “an eternal human.”Young's Literal Translation:
“Jesus answered and said to them, `Destroy this sanctuary, and in three days I will raise it up.'
The Jews, therefore, said, `Forty and six years was this sanctuary building, and wilt thou in three days raise it up?'
but he spake concerning the sanctuary of his body;
when, then, he was raised out of the dead, his disciples
remembered that he said this to them, and they believed the Writing, and the word that Jesus said.” (John 2:19-22)Please keep your reply brief Jodi. Just exegete this passage without your usual pretexting.
thinker
To keep it brief, we know that when the time came and Jesus died it was by the Father and His powers, that Jesus was raised from the dead. The role that Jesus himself played, ensuring that the Father would raise him, was remaining sinless, remaining faithful to God and never giving into his flesh.
You have explained it away. Jesus said that He Himself would raise up His body.thinker
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