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I often hear from Christians the idea that there is an invisible supernatural force of evil that has control over earth….control over everything from natural disasters to the rise and fall of nations through having direct possession over the minds of their leaders. As well, I hear that God is “allowing” this to occur but one day He will put an end to it.
I don’t however find such beliefs to be at all true from what the scriptures actually tell us.
False gods were an object of worship because they were feared, because they were believed to bring not just blessing but also cursing. The definition of god to them represented someone or something with POWERS. Their false worship was false because there are NO other beings who exist who can have Supernatural Powers other than YHVH.
YHVH makes it clear that only He has such supernatural powers. This very fact should cause people to question their interpretation of various scriptures, where they identify the adversary or slanderer in certain text as being a supernatural being that has powers of which YHVH ALONE says He possesses.
Jeremiah 10:1 Hear the word which the Lord speaks to you, O house of Israel. 2 Thus says the Lord: “Do not learn the way of the Gentiles; Do not be dismayed at the signs of heaven, For the Gentiles are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the peoples are futile; For one cuts a tree from the forest, The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. 4 They decorate it with silver and gold; They fasten it with nails and hammers So that it will not topple. 5 They are upright, like a palm tree, And they cannot speak; They must be carried, Because they cannot go by themselves. Do not be afraid of them, For they cannot do evil, Nor can they do any good.” 6 Inasmuch as there is none like You, O Lord (You are great, and Your name is great in might), 7 Who would not fear You, O King of the nations? For this is Your rightful due. For among all the wise men of the nations, And in all their kingdoms, There is none like You. 8 But they are altogether dull-hearted and foolish; A wooden idol is a worthless doctrine. 9 Silver is beaten into plates; It is brought from Tarshish, And gold from Uphaz, The work of the craftsman And of the hands of the metalsmith; Blue and purple are their clothing; They are all the work of skillful men. 10 But the Lord is the true God; He is the living God and the everlasting King. At His wrath the earth will tremble, And the nations will not be able to endure His indignation. 11 Thus you shall say to them: “The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under these heavens.” 12 He has made the earth by His power, He has established the world by His wisdom, And has stretched out the heavens at His discretion. 13 When He utters His voice, There is a multitude of waters in the heavens: “And He causes the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth. He makes lightning for the rain, He brings the wind out of His treasuries.” 14 Everyone is dull-hearted, without knowledge; Every metalsmith is put to shame by an image; For his molded image is falsehood, And there is no breath in them.
When you give YHVH’s powers over to another creature you are creating a false image. The whole concept of Satan in Christianity today is purely a FALSE IMAGE, it’s a complete and utter LIE IMO.
Exodus 4:11 “So the Lord said to him,” Who has made man's mouth? Or who makes the mute, the deaf, the seeing, or the blind? Have not I the Lord?”
Deut 30: 19,” ….I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing;”
I Samuel 2:6 “The Lord kills and makes alive; He brings down to the grave and brings up. The Lord makes the poor and the rich;”
Isaiah 45:6-7 “That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting that there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I the Lord do all these things.”
Acts 17:26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings,
Daniel 2:20 Daniel answered and said: “Blessed be the name of God forever and ever, For wisdom and might are His. 21 And He changes the times and the seasons; He removes kings and raises up kings; He gives wisdom to the wise And knowledge to those who have understanding.
Job 12:23 He makes nations great, and destroys them; He enlarges nations, and guides them.24 He takes away the understanding of the chiefs of the people of the earth, And makes them wander in a pathless wilderness.
Psalm 75:6 For exaltation comes neither from the east Nor from the west nor from the south. 7 But God is the Judge: He puts down one, And exalts another. 8 For in the hand of the Lord there is a cup, And the wine is red; It is fully mixed, and He pours it out; Surely its dregs shall all the wicked of the earth Drain and drink down.
There exists NO scripture that says YHVH “allows” a force of supernatural evil beings to inflict and curse people, on the contrary He says that He ALONE inflicts and curses people. There exists No scripture that says YHVH “allows” a force of supernatural evil beings to rule over the nations, on the contrary He says that it is He who has charge over kings and their kingdoms. Scripture shows that people who believed that “other beings” were capable of doing such things, were people who were FOOLISH, and were people who clearly did NOT KNOW the One True God.
The common perspective amongst Christians of which they apply to the entirety of the bible is that there exists two separate forces of Supernatural powers, one being good and one being evil, and that man’s struggle is to choose the good over the evil. This idea is impossible given the fact that YHVH tells us that He alone is God, meaning He alone possesses POWER! Man’s great adversary is shown to be his OWN carnal nature, not some powerful invisible rebel spirit.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Dec. 30 2009,11:47) I often hear from Christians the idea that there is an invisible supernatural force of evil that has control over earth….control over everything from natural disasters to the rise and fall of nations through having direct possession over the minds of their leaders. As well, I hear that God is “allowing” this to occur but one day He will put an end to it. I don’t however find such beliefs to be at all true from what the scriptures actually tell us.
False gods were an object of worship because they were feared, because they were believed to bring not just blessing but also cursing. The definition of god to them represented someone or something with POWERS. Their false worship was false because there are NO other beings who exist who can have Supernatural Powers other than YHVH.
YHVH makes it clear that only He has such supernatural powers. This very fact should cause people to question their interpretation of various scriptures, where they identify the adversary or slanderer in certain text as being a supernatural being that has powers of which YHVH ALONE says He possesses.
Jeremiah 10:1 Hear the word which the Lord speaks to you, O house of Israel. 2 Thus says the Lord: “Do not learn the way of the Gentiles; Do not be dismayed at the signs of heaven, For the Gentiles are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the peoples are futile; For one cuts a tree from the forest, The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. 4 They decorate it with silver and gold; They fasten it with nails and hammers So that it will not topple. 5 They are upright, like a palm tree, And they cannot speak; They must be carried, Because they cannot go by themselves. Do not be afraid of them, For they cannot do evil, Nor can they do any good.” 6 Inasmuch as there is none like You, O Lord (You are great, and Your name is great in might), 7 Who would not fear You, O King of the nations? For this is Your rightful due. For among all the wise men of the nations, And in all their kingdoms, There is none like You. 8 But they are altogether dull-hearted and foolish; A wooden idol is a worthless doctrine. 9 Silver is beaten into plates; It is brought from Tarshish, And gold from Uphaz, The work of the craftsman And of the hands of the metalsmith; Blue and purple are their clothing; They are all the work of skillful men. 10 But the Lord is the true God; He is the living God and the everlasting King. At His wrath the earth will tremble, And the nations will not be able to endure His indignation. 11 Thus you shall say to them: “The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under these heavens.” 12 He has made the earth by His power, He has established the world by His wisdom, And has stretched out the heavens at His discretion. 13 When He utters His voice, There is a multitude of waters in the heavens: “And He causes the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth. He makes lightning for the rain, He brings the wind out of His treasuries.” 14 Everyone is dull-hearted, without knowledge; Every metalsmith is put to shame by an image; For his molded image is falsehood, And there is no breath in them.When you give YHVH’s powers over to another creature you are creating a false image. The whole concept of Satan in Christianity today is purely a FALSE IMAGE, it’s a complete and utter LIE IMO.
Exodus 4:11 “So the Lord said to him,” Who has made man's mouth? Or who makes the mute, the deaf, the seeing, or the blind? Have not I the Lord?”
Deut 30: 19,” ….I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing;”
I Samuel 2:6 “The Lord kills and makes alive; He brings down to the grave and brings up. The Lord makes the poor and the rich;”
Isaiah 45:6-7 “That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting that there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I the Lord do all these things.”
Acts 17:26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings,
Daniel 2:20 Daniel answered and said: “Blessed be the name of God forever and ever, For wisdom and might are His. 21 And He changes the times and the seasons; He removes kings and raises up kings; He gives wisdom to the wise And knowledge to those who have understanding.
Job 12:23 He makes nations great, and destroys them; He enlarges nations, and guides them.24 He takes away the understanding of the chiefs of the people of the earth, And makes them wander in a pathless wilderness.
Psalm 75:6 For exaltation comes neither from the east Nor from the west nor from the south. 7 But God is the Judge: He puts down one, And exalts another. 8 For in the hand of the Lord there is a cup, And the wine is red; It is fully mixed, and He pours it out; Surely its dregs shall all the wicked of the earth Drain and drink down.
There exists NO scripture that says YHVH “allows” a force of supernatural evil beings to inflict and curse people, on the contrary He says that He ALONE inflicts and curses people. There exists No scripture that says YHVH “allows” a force of supernatural evil beings to rule over the nations, on the contrary He says that it is He who has charge over kings and their kingdoms. Scripture shows that people who believed that “other beings” were capable of doing such things, were people who were FOOLISH, and were people who clearly did NOT KNOW the One True God.
The common perspective amongst Christians of which they apply to the entirety of the bible is that there exists two separate forces of Supernatural powers, one being good and one being evil, and that man’s struggle is to choose the good over the evil. This idea is impossible given the fact that YHVH tells us that He alone is God, meaning He alone possesses POWER! Man’s great adversary is shown to be his OWN carnal nature, not some powerful invisible rebel spirit.
Hi Jodi:Only God has supernatural powers, but man has a free will and has the power to do evil. The devil is a spirit. Judas was called a devil because of what he obeyed.
Jesus states the following:
Quote Mat 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Love in Christ,
MartyHi Marty,
My understanding is that the “spirit” he obeyed was the spirit within man that knows not the ways of YHVH's, but follows and trusts in his OWN understanding.
John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding;
Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh,
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh[, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 Forto be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.
Micah 2:11 If a man should walk in a false spirit And speak a lie, saying, 'I will prophesy to you of wine and drink,' Even he would be the prattler of this people.
Genesis 8:21 And when the Lord smelled the pleasing odor, the Lord said in his heart, “I will never again curse the ground because of humankind, for the inclination of the human heart is evil from youth; nor will I ever again destroy every living creature as I have done.
Proverbs 14:14 The backslider in heart will be filled with his own ways, But a good man will be satisfied from above.
Proverbs 18:2 A fool has no delight in understanding, But in expressing his own heart.
Proverbs 25:28 Whoever has no rule over his own spirit Is like a city broken down, without walls.
Proverbs 28:26 He who trusts in his own heart is a fool, But whoever walks wisely will be delivered.
Isaiah 2:8 Their land is also full of idols; They worship the work of their own hands, That which their own fingers have made.
Isaiah 56:11 Yes, they are greedy dogs Which never have enough. And they are shepherds Who cannot understand; They all look to their own way,Every one for his own gain, From his own territory
Isaiah 65:2 I have stretched out My hands all day long to a rebellious people, Who walk in a way that is not good, According to their own thoughts;
Jeremiah 9:14 but they have walked according to the dictates of their own hearts and after the Baals, which their fathers taught them,”
Jeremiah 23:26 How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Indeed they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart,
Ezekiel 13:3 Thus says the Lord God: “Woe to the foolish prophets, who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing!
Hosea 10:13 You have plowed wickedness; You have reaped iniquity. You have eaten the fruit of lies, Because you trusted in your own way, In the multitude of your mighty men.
Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[d] unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.
Hebrews 2:14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,
When we follow our OWN sinful passions it bears fruit to death. Therefore the DEVIL, of which is said to have power over death, would ultimately have to represent man's OWN sinful passions.
Romans 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Our great adversary (saw-tawn) is shown IMO to clearly represent our own flesh… our own spirit that invents ways to sinfully serve our own bodies.
Ephesians 2:3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.
Love in Christ to you too, Jodi
Jodi………..As you know I also believe we are drawn to sin from our own (NATURES) Not some spook going around jumping in and out of us. I believe the Satan (adversary) is our own adversarial Natures, even as Peter displayed when he was a adversary to Jesus and also Judas was to, along with the Pharisees. Being an adversary is not always Evil , at times it can Be helpful to be one. Pending on the situation that exists at the time. When GOD tells someone to go and tell them I am against them, He is taking on the position of an adversary. But when this adversarial Spirit goes against the WILL of GOD them sin results and sin brings death as you quoted. The Prince of the power of the air is Adversarial Spirits of Men ruling in High places of POWER in the earth, its no separate Being doing it IMO> The Spirit of GOD does act as an adversarial spirit (intellect) at times, “for the Spirit both accuses us and defends us”, this adversary (SATAN) Spirit is said to accuse us before GOD day and Night”, But notice it does not say that Satan (adversarial Spirit) is wrong. In fact when a person comes to see the error of His way many times its and adversarial Spirit from GOD that shows Him his error and causes Him to change , as in the case of JOB, GOD came (Against) Job and Job repented and came to abhor himself. Even scripture says “for these loved (NOT) (their) Lives even unto death”. Empowering some unknown Bring as causing all these sins is simply FALSE and is aliened with Pagan practices and thinking, they thought everything wrong was of another deity forcing his will on people. But truth is as you brought out there is ONLY ONE TRUE DEITY and that is GOD HIMSELF. Man is lead away by his own lusts and needs to take responsibility for it himslef, (NO) (the devil )did not makes him do anything , his own lusts and pride did. IMO
peace and love to you and your Jodi………………..gene
Hi brothers and Sisters in Heavennet,
Wish you all a very happy and joyful New year 2010.
Love and peace
AdamQuote (gollamudi @ Jan. 03 2010,17:20) Hi brothers and Sisters in Heavennet,
Wish you all a very happy and joyful New year 2010.
Love and peace
Adam
Thank you and the same wishes to you and all on heaven.net.Hi Jodi-lee:
This statement is what I am trying to address. You say:
Quote I often hear from Christians the idea that there is an invisible supernatural force of evil that has control over earth….control over everything from natural disasters to the rise and fall of nations through having direct possession over the minds of their leaders. As well, I hear that God is “allowing” this to occur but one day He will put an end to it. It is man who is destroying the planet, and therefore, it is through men's carelessness and evil doing that these so called natural disasters take place, and so, yes, I believe that God allows these things always with the intent that mankind turn to him and be saved. For the most part, men do not have a need for God unless there are problems that they cannot seem to take care of for themselves. Also, in these problems we as Christians, can show the love of God to those affected.
But there is no supernatural power but that of God.
Quote Job 1:12 And the LORD said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has [is] in your power; only do not lay a hand on his [person].” So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD. Love in Christ,
Martyto All………here is an interesting thought, Heb 2:14…> in so much then that the childern have partake of flesh and blood, he himself shared in the same, that (THROUGH DEATH) he might destory him who had the power of death, that is the devil. Question what does that mean (through death) He might destory him who had the power of death the devil.
When Jesus put (HIMSELF to DEATH) He in this sense destroyed (HIS WILL) , He did (NOT) want to die. He sweat as it were great drops of Blood in the agonizing battle. Asking GOD to remove it from him three times, but yielding to GOD'S (WILL) in the end. The (Self) WILL was the devil (adversarial Spirit (intellect) in HIM and (IT) had the power of death (it was the Will in man that separated man from God in the first place and brought death), and He destroyed it (IN) himself by yielding to the (WILL) of GOD and PUTTING His (WILL) to DEATH. even the death of the cross, that was the final victory over (HIMSELF) and the WORLD. His (TOTAL) reliance on GOD the Father was His life and he reject his own WILL in submission to the FATHERS this was his victory it was over himself. IMO
to All…….> Mat 16:25…..> For whosoever will save (HIS) life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose (HIS) life for my sake shall find it.
Repeated three times in scripture. Jesus is our example how to have a right relationship with the FATHER and it is (EXACTLY) the same as HIS. We must all with the Holy Spirit learn to put our (OWN) WILLS to death as Jesus did. Therefore he says “whosoever overcomes even as (I) have i will grant to sit with me in my kingdom, even as I have overcome and am sit down in my Fathers Kingdom”.
These deluded Trinitarians can't even imagine that , because they think Jesus himself was a GOD, instead of a human being exactly as we are in every way. Jesus calls us to be (IDENTICAL) TO HIM, in every way. Not worship Him as something different from us in anyway. WE give all the GLORY to GOD the FATHER, Who was (IN) Christ Jesus reconciling the whole world unto (HIMSELF).
Give honor to whom honor is due and glory to whom glory is do. We have (ONLY) (ONE) TRUE GOD, He is our FATHER and JESUS' FATHER, OUR GOD and JESUS' GOD. IMO
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