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Thinker,
I don't know how creation went specifically in detail. I heard a whisper in my ear like you did and it changed my life and understanding of who Jesus is. That whisper tied “firstborn of all creation” with “let there be light.” The heavens and the earth were not yet completed till after day one and that is clear to me.You say that the earth existed as in a dead state before light was created. I agree because it was not yet completed. It did not come into fully being yet, it was during day three that it came into fully being formed.
Don't ya wonder why there was no “Let there be” before Gen 1:3 if so much was considered created, and then from Gen 1:3 there starts the spoken “words” of God. Also notice that it doesn't say “and God made….” after He said “Let there be light” but He does say it after several other “let there be” statements. This is interesting to wonder about but I doubt we will know how this all happened before we die.
BTW, the word was not eternal, I have shown that in another thread.
G'nite,
KathiQuote (Nick Hassan @ May 04 2009,18:05) Hi LU,
Here is the light of Jesus.
2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.2 Corinthians 4:6
For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
Hi Nick,
'Let there be knowledge of myself in the face of my very own offspring” and there was light, His offspring.
LULightenup said:
Quote I don't know how creation went specifically in detail. I heard a whisper in my ear like you did and it changed my life and understanding of who Jesus is. That whisper tied “firstborn of all creation” with “let there be light.” The heavens and the earth were not yet completed till after day one and that is clear to me. Then you must equally honor the “whisper” everyone else receives. Why would the whisper of the six day creationist be more reliable than the whisper of the theistic evolutionist and vice versa? And why would the whisper of the Unitarian be more reliable than the whisper of the Trinitarian? If you answer “Because the Bible says” then let's abandon “whisper” talk.
Lightenup said:
Quote You say that the earth existed as in a dead state before light was created. I agree because it was not yet completed. It did not come into fully being yet, it was during day three that it came into fully being formed. So the original “whisper” you had that told you that without the Word ALL other things were created is wrong. The earth actually came into being without him though it lacked form. And let's remember that the heavens (plural) also existed BEFORE the Light/Word. So we have TWO things that came into being without him which are the heavens and a formless earth. Your belief that the “light” is the Word is without any basis whatsoever. God clearly called the light “day” and He called the darkness “night.” The light is NOT the Word.
And what about the whisper the apostle John received?
Quote And without Him not one thing has come into being which has come into being. thinker
Quote (thethinker @ May 06 2009,11:09) Lightenup said: Quote I don't know how creation went specifically in detail. I heard a whisper in my ear like you did and it changed my life and understanding of who Jesus is. That whisper tied “firstborn of all creation” with “let there be light.” The heavens and the earth were not yet completed till after day one and that is clear to me. Then you must equally honor the “whisper” everyone else receives. Why would the whisper of the six day creationist be more reliable than the whisper of the theistic evolutionist and vice versa? And why would the whisper of the Unitarian be more reliable than the whisper of the Trinitarian? If you answer “Because the Bible says” then let's abandon “whisper” talk.
Lightenup said:
Quote You say that the earth existed as in a dead state before light was created. I agree because it was not yet completed. It did not come into fully being yet, it was during day three that it came into fully being formed. So the original “whisper” you had that told you that without the Word ALL other things were created is wrong. The earth actually came into being without him though it lacked form. And let's remember that the heavens (plural) also existed BEFORE the Light/Word. So we have TWO things that came into being without him which are the heavens and a formless earth. Your belief that the “light” is the Word is without any basis whatsoever. God clearly called the light “day” and He called the darkness “night.” The light is NOT the Word.
And what about the whisper the apostle John received?
Quote And without Him not one thing has come into being which has come into being. thinker
Hebrews 11:2-4 (Young's Literal Translation)3 by faith we understand the ages to have been prepared by a saying of God, in regard to the things seen not having come out of things appearing;
Hebrews 11:2-4 (King James Version)
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
It is interesting that no one sees the obvious, we all know that God created everything through what He said. This scripture clearly tells that everything we see cannot be made of things that appear (Jesus appeared) But The Word of God is not seen so He expressed himsel and put His words in the Mouth of Jesus
Deuteronomy 18:17-19 (King James Version)
18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
The Word of God belongs to God so when it says and the word became flesh it simply means expressed through the flesh.
I have already explained that you will not find “The word of God” as being Jesus in the entire Bible
Quote (thethinker @ May 05 2009,19:09) Lightenup said: Quote I don't know how creation went specifically in detail. I heard a whisper in my ear like you did and it changed my life and understanding of who Jesus is. That whisper tied “firstborn of all creation” with “let there be light.” The heavens and the earth were not yet completed till after day one and that is clear to me. Then you must equally honor the “whisper” everyone else receives. Why would the whisper of the six day creationist be more reliable than the whisper of the theistic evolutionist and vice versa? And why would the whisper of the Unitarian be more reliable than the whisper of the Trinitarian? If you answer “Because the Bible says” then let's abandon “whisper” talk.
Lightenup said:
Quote You say that the earth existed as in a dead state before light was created. I agree because it was not yet completed. It did not come into fully being yet, it was during day three that it came into fully being formed. So the original “whisper” you had that told you that without the Word ALL other things were created is wrong. The earth actually came into being without him though it lacked form. And let's remember that the heavens (plural) also existed BEFORE the Light/Word. So we have TWO things that came into being without him which are the heavens and a formless earth. Your belief that the “light” is the Word is without any basis whatsoever. God clearly called the light “day” and He called the darkness “night.” The light is NOT the Word.
And what about the whisper the apostle John received?
Quote And without Him not one thing has come into being which has come into being. thinker
Thinker,Quote Then you must equally honor the “whisper” everyone else receives. Why would the whisper of the six day creationist be more reliable than the whisper of the theistic evolutionist and vice versa? And why would the whisper of the Unitarian be more reliable than the whisper of the Trinitarian? If you answer “Because the Bible says” then let's abandon “whisper” talk. You must equally honor all “whispers”…bologne! You must equally test it according to the scriptures, that is what you must do.
Quote
So the original “whisper” you had that told you that without the Word ALL other things were created is wrong. The earth actually came into being without him though it lacked form. And let's remember that the heavens (plural) also existed BEFORE the Light/Word. So we have TWO things that came into being without him which are the heavens and a formless earth. Your belief that the “light” is the Word is without any basis whatsoever.It is clear by what you write that you do not know what I heard in my ear. Go hear and read my post about it:
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….9;st=30The formed earth and the completed heavens did not come into being before day two. The Light was there on day one.
Quote God clearly called the light “day” and He called the darkness “night.” The light is NOT the Word. Notice below “sons of day” and “sons of light:”
1 Thess 5:4-5
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;
5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;
NASUDay/night, darkness/light don't always mean what we see out the window.
Quote And without Him not one thing has come into being which has come into being. The term “has come into being” is implying a completed thing not incompleted things. The heavens and earth were completed after day one of creation. The heavens and the earth were not complete before day one. Read Genesis 1 again. God did not create earth to be void thus, it was not completely created while it was formless and void. It was in process. He finishes forming it on day three and starts filling it thereafter.
Isa 45:18
18 For thus says the Lord, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it a waste place, but formed it to be inhabited), “I am the Lord, and there is none else.
NASUThe earth was “made” after it was formed. In its “void” state it was not considered established yet.
BTW, the passage in Isa 45 was spoken to a culture that had many gods of wood who could not save and none of those were there creating with the LORD. There was no one else His equal creating the earth and heavens. His Son was there though yet not His equal and not comparable to the Father who was the Most High.
IMO,
KathiQuote (bodhitharta @ May 06 2009,00:12) Quote (thethinker @ May 06 2009,11:09) Lightenup said: Quote I don't know how creation went specifically in detail. I heard a whisper in my ear like you did and it changed my life and understanding of who Jesus is. That whisper tied “firstborn of all creation” with “let there be light.” The heavens and the earth were not yet completed till after day one and that is clear to me. Then you must equally honor the “whisper” everyone else receives. Why would the whisper of the six day creationist be more reliable than the whisper of the theistic evolutionist and vice versa? And why would the whisper of the Unitarian be more reliable than the whisper of the Trinitarian? If you answer “Because the Bible says” then let's abandon “whisper” talk.
Lightenup said:
Quote You say that the earth existed as in a dead state before light was created. I agree because it was not yet completed. It did not come into fully being yet, it was during day three that it came into fully being formed. So the original “whisper” you had that told you that without the Word ALL other things were created is wrong. The earth actually came into being without him though it lacked form. And let's remember that the heavens (plural) also existed BEFORE the Light/Word. So we have TWO things that came into being without him which are the heavens and a formless earth. Your belief that the “light” is the Word is without any basis whatsoever. God clearly called the light “day” and He called the darkness “night.” The light is NOT the Word.
And what about the whisper the apostle John received?
Quote And without Him not one thing has come into being which has come into being. thinker
Hebrews 11:2-4 (Young's Literal Translation)3 by faith we understand the ages to have been prepared by a saying of God, in regard to the things seen not having come out of things appearing;
Hebrews 11:2-4 (King James Version)
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
It is interesting that no one sees the obvious, we all know that God created everything through what He said. This scripture clearly tells that everything we see cannot be made of things that appear (Jesus appeared) But The Word of God is not seen so He expressed himsel and put His words in the Mouth of Jesus
Deuteronomy 18:17-19 (King James Version)
18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
The Word of God belongs to God so when it says and the word became flesh it simply means expressed through the flesh.
I have already explained that you will not find “The word of God” as being Jesus in the entire Bible
Hi Bodi,
Who do you say this verse is talking about whose name is called “The Word of God?”Rev 19:13
13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
NASUQuote Hebrews 11:2-4 (Young's Literal Translation) 3 by faith we understand the ages to have been prepared by a saying of God, in regard to the things seen not having come out of things appearing;
Hebrews 11:2-4 (King James Version)
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
It is interesting that no one sees the obvious, we all know that God created everything through what He said. This scripture clearly tells that everything we see cannot be made of things that appear (Jesus appeared) But The Word of God is not seen so He expressed himsel and put His words in the Mouth of Jesus
I do not believe anyone is saying that the worlds came out OF the Son but instead they came through the Son. The Father didn't take a piece of the Son and make something else. The Father spoke the word that He wanted made and the Son cooperated and the Father made what He wanted THROUGH/BY the Son's involvement, not OF the Son. IMO
God bless,
KathiHi Nick,
Isa 9:6
6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
NASUNick, in a sense, since the Father brought everything into being by the Son then so was mankind brought into being through/by the Son, therefore we are His children as well as the Father's.
Anyway, my point was that day/night, light/darkness was not only something you see out your window.
God bless,
KathiLightenup said:
Quote You must equally honor all “whispers”…bologne! You must equally test it according to the scriptures, that is what you must do. I agree Kathi and that's what I was trying to say. You appeared to be likening your “whisper” to something subjective.
Lightenup said:
Quote The formed earth and the completed heavens did not come into being before day two. The Light was there on day one. It doesn't matter. The light is NOT the Word. Nothing in the narrative supports this.
Lightenup said:
Quote Notice below “sons of day” and “sons of light:”
1 Thess 5:4-5
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;
5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darknessDay/night, darkness/light don't always mean what we see out the window….The term “has come into being” is implying a completed thing not incompleted things. The heavens and earth were completed after day one of creation. The heavens and the earth were not complete before day one. Read Genesis 1 again. God did not create earth to be void thus, it was not completely created while it was formless and void. It was in process. He finishes forming it on day three and starts filling it thereafter.
You are creative Kathi. I'll give you that much. But your explanation fails because the light that came into being was the counterpart to the darkness that covered the face of the deep. Since evil had not been introduced into the world yet you can't identify the darkness as evil. Therefore, you can't allegorize the light. Your approach is allegorical. The problem with this approach is that there are many.
The creation on day one was about God giving order and fulfillment to an unfulfilled creation. The light was NOT the Word anymore than the darkness was satan. Come on!
Lightenup said:
Quote There was no one else His equal creating the earth and heavens. His Son was there though yet not His equal and not comparable to the Father who was the Most High God did not beget His Son UNTIL the resurrection as I have already shown (Heb. 1:5: 5:5). I will now add Acts 13 to the mix,
Quote And we declare to you glad tidings, that promise which was made to the fathers. God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm: “You are my Son, TODAY I have begotten you” (13:32-33)
The Word was in the beginning. The Word became flesh and afterwards became the Son through the resurrection. The new testament is clear about this. WJ has correctly said that there are 3 ways one may become a son. By reproduction, by adoption or by declaration. The Word became the Son of God by declaration,
Quote I will declare the decree “You are my Son, TODAY I have begotten you” (Psalm 2:7). Peter said that this was “fulfilled” in the resurrection. You refute the unrefutable.
Your “reproduction” theory is unsound.
thinker
p.s. I will be away for a few days. We are making a 12 hour trip to bring our daughter home from college for the summer. We can't wait to have her back with us. On the way back we will be staying at a motel. I may run off a quick post from the motel computer.
Quote (thethinker @ May 06 2009,10:40) It doesn't matter. The light is NOT the Word. Nothing in the narrative supports this.
Thinker,Commonly, many appply several attributes to Jesus out of their understading of John 1:1-7. They identofy him as
1) The word
2) Creator
3) God
4) The lightWhen you return, can you reconcile your above statement with these four common understandings please. Have a safe trip and enjoy your daughters company for the summer.
Blessings,
Seeking
Thinker ……….I also wish you a safe and a happy trip to brother.
peace and love to you and yours…………….gene
Quote (SEEKING @ May 06 2009,16:59) Quote (thethinker @ May 06 2009,10:40) It doesn't matter. The light is NOT the Word. Nothing in the narrative supports this.
Thinker,Commonly, many appply several attributes to Jesus out of their understading of John 1:1-7. They identofy him as
1) The word
2) Creator
3) God
4) The lightWhen you return, can you reconcile your above statement with these four common understandings please. Have a safe trip and enjoy your daughters company for the summer.
Blessings,
Seeking
Hi Seeking,
Good observation, thank you for asking this question. It is obvious that “Light” is within the context of that which came into the world. Like you said, word, light, creation, and God all are part of the first half of chapter 1 of John.Way to go,
KathiQuote (Nick Hassan @ May 08 2009,01:04) Hi LU,
God is light.
Hi Nick,
So true…GOD is LIGHT, the Son is Light, and we are lights.
GOD has LIGHT within Himself, the Son has Light within Himself, we have Light within ourselves (and sometimes that light is darkness).
True Light comes from TRUE LIGHT.
Bless you,
Kathi
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