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942767……. to say tithing was not a law but is a principle of giving is a false statement , thats what churches want you to believe. Tithing was instituted for the very purpose of supporting the government of the Israelite Nation, it was simply a form of taxes and had nothing to do with giving it was a law in Israel. Heb 7:5 …> and verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who received the office of the priesthood have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the (LAW) that is of their brethren though they come out of the loins of Abraham.
I have studied the law of tithing and debated it, there is no where in the new testament where tithing is spoken of, giving is but not tithing. Jesus told those who were still under the old covenant, Mat 23:23…> Woe unto you. scribes and Pharisees, hyprocrites!,for you pay tithes of mint and cummin and anise but leave out the weighter matter of the (LAW) mercy and judgement mercy, and Faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Jesus was telling those who were still under the old covenant law what they should be doing and that included tithing, But we are not under the old covenant but the new where there is no mention of tithing.
Your mention of Ananias And Saphira had nothing to do with tithing at all, but lying to the Spirit of GOD, They said they (gave all) when in fact they conspired and lied. Look i am not against giving but to give to some organization who claim to be doing “Gods work” may not be true at all, you could be supporting the Apostatized Church and think you are serving God. If you Know for sure your giving will truly help someone then, I believe GOD will bless you and the (ONLY) way you can possibly know that is to give it to the person yourself. In conclusion there is (NO) tithing requirement on any one at all. imo
peace to you……………gene
Tree…., in scripture is referenced in the Garden of Eden, but why did God use the term (Tree) with the words GOOD and EVIL. what is the spiritual meaning by the expression, (the tree of Good and Evil). I believe it represents (that which produces fro it self) as a tree does, So God was simply saying don't eat (take to yourself) that which produces from self (as a tree does) the knowledge of good and evil.
peace and love to all……………………gene
Hi Gene:
You say:
Quote In conclusion there is (NO) tithing requirement on any one at all I agree. What ever we do in obedience to God whether it be giving of any of our monies is out of love for Him and for humanity. To me giving a tithe is a principle for giving not a law. Jacob in the OT freely stated that he was going to give a tenth of whatever God blessed him with. There was not law that said that he had to do this.
I mentioned Annias and Saphira to show you that you have the power to do whatever you want with what is in your possession. They did not have to lie about it. But the fact that they lied about it was not my point. If they did not want to give any of it, they did not have to give it. It was theirs to do with as they chose.
Although there is not law for tithing, there is the following scriptures.
Quote Hbr 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham: Hbr 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
Hbr 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
Hbr 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he [receiveth them], of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
But the following scriptures tell me that there is no law for giving:
This verse in particular indicates that Jesus receives tithes because Melchisdek was a type of Christ.
Quote Hbr 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he [receiveth them], of whom it is witnessed that he liveth Quote 2Cr 8:12 For if there be first a willing mind, [it is] accepted according to that a man hath, [and] not according to that he hath not. 2Cr 8:13 For not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:
2Cr 8:14 But by an equality, [that] now at this time your abundance [may be a supply] for their want, that their abundance also may be [a supply] for your want: that there may be equality:
2Cr 8:15 As it is written, He that [had gathered] much had nothing over; and he that [had gathered] little had no lack.
But if God has ordained a minister, the following scriptures would indicate that the congregation should give to support him. It does not, however, indicate that everyone must give a tithe.
Quote 1Cr 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? 1Cr 9:10 Or saith he [it] altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, [this] is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
1Cr 9:11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, [is it] a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
My conclusion is that we willingly do whatever we do out of our Love for God and for humanity.
Quote Mat 22:36 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law? Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
God Bless
942767……..i agree with you (Giving is a Principle) but tithing is not. There is not one word mentioned about tithing after the Church was started, Giving yes, tithing no.
peace to you……………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 08 2008,13:31) ep….you say don't be arrogant…..don't be dense…………good advice you need to take it, and when did i ever say i was the only one the HOLY SPIRIT speaks through. Do you have to lie to try to make other think your right . If you want to believe ever Scholar that fits your ideology that fine with me. I personally chose not to And there are plenty that disagree with what your scholars also. IMO
Gene, its arrogant to choose your own really skewed definitions over that of qualified Greek scholars. In THAT sense you are arrogant. If I did the same thing, I would agree, yes, I should be considered arrogant as well. As it is, I am not the one who misused Scripture to try and prove that people should not listen to others because we have the Holy Spirit, and this by misusing…. by taking out of context 1 Jn. 2:27.So, the two main points here are that you have erred on a definition, and because of your refusal to see that others may be more qualified than you to translate Greek, you have erred on a fundamental doctrine and concept in Christianity, namely “faith”.
Secondly, you have erred in that you took a Scripture out of context, and have tried to teach me that we should not listen to teachers!! lol…
The really sad thing is that these errors are so simple, and could be easily remedied if only you had a teachable spirit, if only you did not have an overly high estimation of your own abilities, and would be so simple to fix. But, as I said and will say again, Spurgeon's words fit you perfectly because you are arrogant if you think that you don't need standard lexicons and dictionaries to aid you in your bible study. That kind of attitude is simply astounding as much as it is…. well… never mind…strike that… I shouldn't say that. But….. why in the world wouldn't someone use something as simple as a dictionary for heaven's sake!!! But ok…. if you want to go through life with blinders on, thinking that something like an education is of no real value, and that something like an advanced education in the biblical languages, the kind of thing that provided your English bible for you in the first place(!!!!), is of no real value, and that you can better decide for yourself how best to translate Greek words, even though you do not and cannot read Greek to any fluent level, hey then…. well… I guess you are free to come up with just about any doctrine you want, and probably justify it with you own “translation” lol… in fact, you will probably have your own bible translation before too much longer.
Once again…. these words ring so true…
“Of course, you are not such wiseacres as to think or say that you can expound Scripture without assistance from the works of divines and learned men who have laboured before you in the field of exposition. If you are of that opinion, pray remain so, for you are not worth the trouble of conversion, and like a little coterie who think with you, would resent the attempt as an insult to your infallibility. It seems odd, that certain men who talk so much of what the Holy Spirit reveals to themselves, should think so little of what he has revealed to others. My chat this afternoon is not for these great originals, but for you who are content to learn of holy men, taught of God, and mighty in the Scriptures. It has been the fashion of late years to speak against the use of commentaries. If there were any fear that the expositions of Matthew Henry, Gill, Scott, and others, would be exalted into Christian Targums, we would join the chorus of objectors, but the existence or approach of such a danger we do not suspect. The temptations of our times lie rather in empty pretensions to novelty of sentiment, than in a slavish following of accepted guides. A respectable acquaintance with the opinions of the giants of the past, might have saved many an erratic thinker from wild interpretations and outrageous inferences. Usually, we have found the despisers of commentaries to be men who have no sort of acquaintance with them; in their case, it is the opposite of familiarity which has bred contempt.”
blessings,
KenEP…….It appears your faith is in the Scholars you so often quote, they may have blinded your eyes , remember it say God has called the foolish to confound the wise . To think that the Scholars are the answer to what is written is unwise, a scholar can add some thought to a discussion, that might be good , but to think they have the answers to all the questions is foolish, they have been arguing the TRINITY for two thousand years and still do, not to mention a host of other subjects. A person who is lead by Gods Spirit it far better of then if he had WJ”S 600 scholars all teaching Him. I would like to keep this tread about Simple (WORDS) and how they are Spiritually used in scripture if we can.
peace………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 09 2008,14:01) 942767……..i agree with you (Giving is a Principle) but tithing is not. There is not one word mentioned about tithing after the Church was started, Giving yes, tithing no. peace to you……………gene
No Gene:I said tithing my income is a principle to me for giving. Giving is a commandment not a principle. However, Jesus said “if you love me keep my commandments”. Whatever we do in obedience to God's Word should be with the motive of love, and not because it is a commandment.
Quote 2Cr 9:5 Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as [a matter of] bounty, and not as [of] covetousness. 2Cr 9:6 But this , He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
2Cr 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, [so let him give]; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
God Bless
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 10 2008,07:11) Hi 94,
Of course the OT commands are not those of Jesus.
Hi Nick:Which OT laws are not the commandments of Jesus?
Quote Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 10 2008,08:05) Hi 94,
None of them are his.
He reminded folk of them but he brought his own NEW commands.
Hi Nick:He fulfilled the law and it is through the commandments that have come from God to humanity through him that we also fulfill the law.
Hi 94,
You have never been under that law as a gentile.
But you do inherit by his fulfillment of that jewish law.
He has not made us Jews and neither should we make ourselves JewsQuote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 10 2008,08:22) Hi 94,
You have never been under that law as a gentile.
But you do inherit by his fulfillment of that jewish law.
He has not made us Jews and neither should we make ourselves Jews
Hi Nick:We've been over this time and time again. I don't want to continue this converstation.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 10 2008,08:22) Hi 94,
You have never been under that law as a gentile.
But you do inherit by his fulfillment of that jewish law.
He has not made us Jews and neither should we make ourselves Jews
Amen to that post brother Nick,
I agree with that view.
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