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- October 28, 2008 at 6:57 am#111203epistemaniacParticipant
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 28 2008,05:18) ep…..sorry you have got your feelings hurt, but i see you explanation as more explaining what Faith does not what it is, except the part about it being (REALITY) to me thats what Faith is the (REALITY) given by (REAL PROOF) and if you don't have that you simply have supposition. Or why do you think Jesus said when the son of man comes WILL HE FIND FAITH ON EARTH. Another point you quoted in Isaiah about precept being upon precept you need to also read …..Isa 28:13….> But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and FALL BACKWARD, AND BE BROKEN, AND SNARED, AND TAKEN. Your long a drawn out posts are typical of Trinitarians , it seems that they think by much words and Scholars they have truth. But are unable to deal with the simple issues presented.
My simple point of these words is to show what they mean not what they produce, but what they actually mean. And the simple meaning of FAITH is expressed Hebrews , “FAITH (IS) the substance (what makes up) our HOPE, brought about by, THE (EVIDENCE) of things (NOT) seen. No man has seem GOD at any time , so how can we believe in something we can see, simply by what He does in our lives through answered prayer and these miracles gives us our Proof (FAITH) that builds our trust. GOD is a GOD of PROOFS NOT SUPPOSITIONS> Without these proofs in my life i would not be here no matter what anyone said , even Jesus. words are only words and Proof is Proof and gives FAITH.
peace to you and yours……………………….gene
funny, you don't sound very sorryat any rate, the fact that you are mistaken does not hurt my feelings in the slightest bit… you are quite free to be just as mistaken as you want to be, its a free country. The fact that you can say that I was mistaken, that you could “correct” me by giving a definition of faith by alluding to Hebrews 11:1 as “the” proper definition of faith, all the while totally missing that I too had specifically listed this same verse, shows:
1) you do not have very high reading level, which may not be your fault;
2) or, you don't carefully and thoughtfully read the posts you are responding to, which would be your fault;
3) or you evidently think that giving Hebrews 11:1 as a definition of faith is correct only when YOU say it, while when someone else says the very same thing, its apparently mistaken;
4) or perhaps some combination of the above….in any case, since you feel as if you, and perhaps only those who agree with you, have their theology right, you just go right on living in your plastic bubble ….. and…. btw…. I say “perhaps” because apparently someone could agree with you by giving the same answer to a question as you would, yet, according to you anyway, they could still be “mistaken” since it wasn't you who actually gave the answer/verse/biblical passage…..
but hey… you are free to choose to be blissfully ignorant of others who have answered your question in a much fuller biblical manner then you have…. which are quite easily found in standard accepted reference works no less!!! But no…. I guess Vine's is mistaken… Leon Morris is mistaken… but “Gene”… well now, he is the new lexical standard… we should all go to “Gene” for our biblical definitions because he is more advanced in his Greek abilities than either W. E. Vine or Morris!!! ROFLOL!!!
So, no, my feelings aren't hurt Gene… rather, I am astounded at your arrogance on the one hand, and at your apparent lack of reading ability, or lack of care and thoughtfulness while reading, on the other. I mean if it was just me who had given the definition… fine… disagree… we are simply and merely exchanging opinions…. but when a respected standard Greek resource is given in regard to a question concerning definitions, and you disagree, you had better have some pretty good reasons for disagreeing…. Vine isn't infallible… I know that and I am not saying that… but, I would say that he knew biblical even better than you Gene… but maybe I am wrong… so I better ask….. how many years have you studied biblical Greek at the University level such that you think you are able to correct Vine? If you do not respond to anything else, please, tell me this much…. and hey, if you happen to have a PhD in Greek…. I stand corrected… however, if you don't, then I am very confident that it is you who stands corrected.
blessings,
KenOctober 28, 2008 at 8:36 am#111206malcolm ferrisParticipantTo my mind faith is a divine disclosure that comes only from GOD.
It is what makes the difference between hearing and understanding.
It is what makes a written letter become a living reality in our hearts.October 28, 2008 at 9:29 am#111212gollamudiParticipantQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 27 2008,14:06) 942767…..Faith is not the (evidence), it is the result of the evidence. Faith and evidence can not be separated. The Hebrew definition defines what faith is, This Faith is what makes the substance of Hope of things hoped for, as Not3in1 said. I would not say Faith is Hope but it certainly give us Hope. If we look at the men mentioned in the faith chapter of Hebrews we see men who had tangible proof of God not just words, but demonstrations of God's Power and involvement in their lives. Let consider King David, his boldness he had against Goliath was a result of past experience with God, saying to King Saul, 'the LORD that delivered me out of the paw of the lion, and out of the paw of the bear, he will deliver me out of the hand of this Philistine. God's presence with him was proved in the past and David exercise the evidence given him in his past. Had God not delievered him in the past i drought he would have had the courage to do what he did.
Lets look at Abraham do you think he did what he did without tangible proof ion his life. Do you think he could have offered up his son without having his past proofs . Abraham had been given much proof of God, He was not acting by suppositions or word, but experience with GOD in his life. Let's look at Gideon , “And Gideon said unto God if thou wilt save Israel by mine hand, as thou hast said, Behold i will out a fleece of wool in the floor; and if the dew be on the floor only and dry upon all the earth, THEN SHALL I KNOW, and so it happened, but even that was not enough to convince him, so he ask the LORD the LORD for more (PROOF).
Even Moses had to have proods given him Words were just not enough Words don't give proof action does, and God is a GOD of PROOF'S. Why would He expect us to believe anything with out Proof. Faith is the result of Proofs no just words. All men and women of true Faith have tangible proof's given them. Read the parable of the unjust Judge it shows God does give tangible proof's.
Peace to you and yours……………………gene
That is a wonderful post on “Faith” my brother Gene. Faith without the evidence of actions/works is dead indeed as told by James. Mere hearing and believing not at all faith. They are only the beginners in the path way of 'Faith' but not the completeness of achieving it. Yes Faith is the base for any relationship with our Father God. Simply by telling that I have faith is not true meaning of it but living it in our lives accordingly. Abraham is the real example quoted by Paul as well as by you here who lived according to faith he acquired in his life.May God continue to bring more revelation through you
Thanks and peace to you
AdamOctober 28, 2008 at 3:33 pm#111224GeneBalthropParticipantep……….your beginning to remind me of those who said “who are these unlearned men”, your great trust in so called (Scholars) is hardly a conviction of your own, but a conviction based on others. You seem to value ones education as the pinnacle of understanding what GOD's word says. Even if it is tainted by Trinitarian Ideologies. You spent a whole post on discrediting me only really shows your own arrogance. Truly in your cast the words “knowledge puffs up” is apparent. I personally could care less of your opinion of me and others. Lets try to stay on subject matter if we can.
The subject here is FAITH, not me or you, AS far as I am concerned Faith is dependent on (REAL) proof and not suppositions and thats been my stand and still is. God said He was Faithful to forgive and cleans us from ALL unrighteousness. James said Faith without works is dead existing alone. True faith must exist with evidence being demonstrated in our lives, God himself evidences His existence in our lives, which should give us true faith in HIM. Paul said In 1 Co 2:4….> And my speech and ly preaching was not with enticing words of mans wisdom, but in demonstration of Spirit and of (POWER).and 1Co 2:5…> that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the (POWER) of GOD. This power is being demonstrated in every true Christians life, Therefore we have no need of (ANY) man to teach us for the Spirit itself teaches us all things.
gene
October 28, 2008 at 3:49 pm#111225GeneBalthropParticipantmalcolm…….I believe that also, God even calls the simple to confound the wise, many trust in man wisdom or think that education is the answer to religion, they value the scholarship of others over the power of God to reveal truth to us. God can and often does take the simplest of people and reveal profound truths to them, that no scholar can even know. We who put our trust in GOD to guide us into all truth will grow to the full stature of Christ. God GRACE teaches us and gives us tangible proofs of His existence and understanding of His words.
love and peace to you and yours……….gene
October 30, 2008 at 2:05 pm#111273GeneBalthropParticipantTo All……….”knowing this that the trying of your Faith is more precious then Gold. This shown that our faith will be tested at times and many are beings tested even now. “to whom much has been give much will be required”. Some times we don't understand why things are happening in our lives.
love to you all……………gene
October 31, 2008 at 5:12 pm#111290GeneBalthropParticipantTo All……many years ago when i was a young man, I had heard about God and Jesus nearly all my life, people would quote the bible all the time in fact the first bible i Got was for quoting the psalm of David in Sunday school. But with all that i still was never sure He existed and if He did exist, was He really concerned with me. My Father would read the scriptures all the time and loved to talk to me about them and i was very close to my Father, he lived next door to me and i would get up around 4:00 AM and go over to his house and we would alway talk and most of the time it was about the Kingdom of GOD.
But I was never sure about GOD”S true existence or His dealing with me , So I began a search in scripture to see if i could some how get the proof i needed . I read and studied the scriptures looking for my proof, and one day i found it . God Himself made a challenge in the book of Malachi it said Mal 3:10….> Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and (PROVE) me (NOW) herewith, if i shall not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing.
There it was a way to prove GOD, i was so excited finding that, I told my wife I was going to send a tenth of my Check to a Church and see if GOd does anything, my wife though i should not do it because we needed every bit of the money we had, But i told her i was only going to do it once and if nothing Happened then i would not do it again, because this would be a sign to me that even if there was a God He was not dealing with me. So I sent the money to the WWCG and Waited for my proof., two day later a neighbor came by and told me about a haybailer for sale, he know i repaired things and resold them to make extra money on the side, so i went and brought the bailer for $50.00 and drug it him and set it beside my house till i could get time to work on it. A few days later a man came by and saw the bailer and ask me if i would be interested in selling it, i told him it need to be repaired, he ask if i would sell it like it was, i said yes make me an offer, He offered me $250.00 for it , i took the money. All this took place within a week after i sent in my tithe, I was simply beside my self and my wife said that could have just been a quintessence and i agreed so i said it would try it again and the folowing week someone came by and offered me three times what i had payed for an old tractor and still i was not convienced so i keept tithing and more thing kept happening and on and on it went every time i sent my tithe in something would happen, in fact it became hummors it happened so much. God truly was proving Himself in my life and i became convienced of His existence, not by what others said or by reading scriptures, but by real and tangible proofs. I have had hundreds of mericales and answered prayers in my life so far. That is what caused me to believe and gave me my FAITH>
Please don't think i am pushing tithing to any church because i am not, I truly believe i could have Just as much given it to a needy family in the name of God and the same thing would have happened in my life. It was not about profits, profits had nothing to do with my reason for giving the tithe, it was Just to prove there was a GOD and He was dealing with me in my life, and God gave me much proof. So all the words and all the talking could not produce the proof but the action of God did.
Love and peace to you all………………………gene
November 1, 2008 at 5:22 am#111301gollamudiParticipantThat's an amazing experience my brother Gene.
November 1, 2008 at 7:02 pm#111309942767ParticipantQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 01 2008,05:12) To All……many years ago when i was a young man, I had heard about God and Jesus nearly all my life, people would quote the bible all the time in fact the first bible i Got was for quoting the psalm of David in Sunday school. But with all that i still was never sure He existed and if He did exist, was He really concerned with me. My Father would read the scriptures all the time and loved to talk to me about them and i was very close to my Father, he lived next door to me and i would get up around 4:00 AM and go over to his house and we would alway talk and most of the time it was about the Kingdom of GOD. But I was never sure about GOD”S true existence or His dealing with me , So I began a search in scripture to see if i could some how get the proof i needed . I read and studied the scriptures looking for my proof, and one day i found it . God Himself made a challenge in the book of Malachi it said Mal 3:10….> Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and (PROVE) me (NOW) herewith, if i shall not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing.
There it was a way to prove GOD, i was so excited finding that, I told my wife I was going to send a tenth of my Check to a Church and see if GOd does anything, my wife though i should not do it because we needed every bit of the money we had, But i told her i was only going to do it once and if nothing Happened then i would not do it again, because this would be a sign to me that even if there was a God He was not dealing with me. So I sent the money to the WWCG and Waited for my proof., two day later a neighbor came by and told me about a haybailer for sale, he know i repaired things and resold them to make extra money on the side, so i went and brought the bailer for $50.00 and drug it him and set it beside my house till i could get time to work on it. A few days later a man came by and saw the bailer and ask me if i would be interested in selling it, i told him it need to be repaired, he ask if i would sell it like it was, i said yes make me an offer, He offered me $250.00 for it , i took the money. All this took place within a week after i sent in my tithe, I was simply beside my self and my wife said that could have just been a quintessence and i agreed so i said it would try it again and the folowing week someone came by and offered me three times what i had payed for an old tractor and still i was not convienced so i keept tithing and more thing kept happening and on and on it went every time i sent my tithe in something would happen, in fact it became hummors it happened so much. God truly was proving Himself in my life and i became convienced of His existence, not by what others said or by reading scriptures, but by real and tangible proofs. I have had hundreds of mericales and answered prayers in my life so far. That is what caused me to believe and gave me my FAITH>
Please don't think i am pushing tithing to any church because i am not, I truly believe i could have Just as much given it to a needy family in the name of God and the same thing would have happened in my life. It was not about profits, profits had nothing to do with my reason for giving the tithe, it was Just to prove there was a GOD and He was dealing with me in my life, and God gave me much proof. So all the words and all the talking could not produce the proof but the action of God did.
Love and peace to you all………………………gene
Hi Gene:That is a wonderful testimony. Only one question? Did you give a tenth of your income wilfully or did someone force you to do it?
God Bless
November 1, 2008 at 9:38 pm#111311TiffanyParticipantI too have a question:” What would you have done if God would not have given you his blessings?”
IreneNovember 2, 2008 at 2:22 am#111315GeneBalthropParticipant942767……….No one forced me to , in fact i never had ever tithe, and still don't, we are (not under) the tithing laws at all. I merely did it to test and prove GOD to Myself. In fact when later I joined the WWCG and began to be brought under the tithing laws it didn't work any longer. Profit or anything else had nothing to do with it, it was for real proof only of His existence and Him dealing with me personally. If a person thinks he can tithe and get some wealth from God it won't work , because God looks on the Heart and Knows the reasons behind everything we do, He know my reason was for proof (ONLY) and nothing else, and He proved himself to me that way.
peace to you and yours……………gene
November 2, 2008 at 2:32 am#111316GeneBalthropParticipantQuote (Tiffany @ Nov. 02 2008,08:38) I too have a question:” What would you have done if God would not have given you his blessings?”
Irene
Irene……….You ask what would i have done, nothing , I just would have not been convinced He existed and i would have thought even if He did, he wasn't dealing with me in any case. I believe if someone says something then they aught to back it up even God himself, and He did, with much proof in my life, now it up to me to retain that proof lest i let it slip and forget them as Israel did. All the signs Jesus said would follow his disciples have been done in my life. i AM WITHOUT EXCUSE.love and peace to you and yours…………….gene
November 5, 2008 at 5:26 am#111399pulivarthyParticipantGene,
faith without works is dead.Instead of works, you are using proofs.Here, works means fulfilling the command “love your neighbour as thyself” and walking,speaking,doing etc.. according to the guidance of holy spirit or his word.
babuNovember 6, 2008 at 4:06 am#111411GeneBalthropParticipantPV……(true) faith will have works, there is no option if it is (true) faith. Many say they have faith but really they have Just suppositions a supposed Faith without any proof. Jesus said (many) would come to him saying Lord in you name we have done all these great works , Jesus did not deny the they had not done them , but went on to say depart from me (YOU WORKER) of iniquity. So we see works , but they were works based on suppositions not true faith. Because a person is doing something that looks religious does not mean they have (TRUE FAITH). imo
peace to you and yours………………….gene
November 6, 2008 at 6:06 am#111417pulivarthyParticipantgene,
thank you.so, doing works prompted by the voice of jesus is faith.is it so?
babuNovember 6, 2008 at 1:07 pm#111434GeneBalthropParticipantPV…..not sure what you are saying, but i will say doing works prompted by Jesus' words is not necessarily a sign of (TRUE) Faith in God the Father. If the works are a fruit of the HOLY SPIRIT then that is the work of true Faith. The rich young ruler kept all the commandments right, but when it came to forsaking all, and following Christ, he failed, you see works were there and he believed in Jesus, but (TRUE) Faith was not. He was not truly convected in His heart, as i believe many are today. Jesus said when the son of man comes will he find Faith on the earth, I think there may be very little here when He comes. Supposition has replaced (true faith) today, most don't even know what true faith is. imo
love and peace to you and yours,babu…………………gene
November 7, 2008 at 7:28 am#111451pulivarthyParticipantgene,
please elaborate how you distinguish between supposition and faith.in bible, no scripture is there that many did miracles through suppositions.
babuNovember 7, 2008 at 6:29 pm#111466epistemaniacParticipantQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 29 2008,03:33) ep……….your beginning to remind me of those who said “who are these unlearned men”, your great trust in so called (Scholars) is hardly a conviction of your own, but a conviction based on others. You seem to value ones education as the pinnacle of understanding what GOD's word says. Even if it is tainted by Trinitarian Ideologies. You spent a whole post on discrediting me only really shows your own arrogance. Truly in your cast the words “knowledge puffs up” is apparent. I personally could care less of your opinion of me and others. Lets try to stay on subject matter if we can. The subject here is FAITH, not me or you, AS far as I am concerned Faith is dependent on (REAL) proof and not suppositions and thats been my stand and still is. God said He was Faithful to forgive and cleans us from ALL unrighteousness. James said Faith without works is dead existing alone. True faith must exist with evidence being demonstrated in our lives, God himself evidences His existence in our lives, which should give us true faith in HIM. Paul said In 1 Co 2:4….> And my speech and ly preaching was not with enticing words of mans wisdom, but in demonstration of Spirit and of (POWER).and 1Co 2:5…> that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the (POWER) of GOD. This power is being demonstrated in every true Christians life, Therefore we have no need of (ANY) man to teach us for the Spirit itself teaches us all things.
gene
so, in other words, you don't have any higher education in Greek…. that's ok Gene… lol…..I laugh at your circumventing the straightforward question, not at your lack of ability in Greek, for that is nothing at all to be ashamed of…. but one ought to defer to persons who know the biblical languages if one does not themselves know the language(s), that is just God-given common sense.
I respect teachers who have studied these issues far more deeply than I have…. that's all… they are not infallible…. I do not follow any one single teacher slavishly…. etc etc etc
Your post reminds me of these words from the great teacher/preacher Charles Spurgeon:
“In order to be able to expound the Scriptures, and as an aid to your pulpit studies, you will need to be familiar with the commentators: a glorious army, let me tell you, whose acquaintance will be your delight and profit. Of course, you are not such wiseacres as to think or say that you can expound Scripture without assistance from the works of divines and learned men who have laboured before you in the field of exposition. If you are of that opinion, pray remain so, for you are not worth the trouble of conversion, and like a little coterie who think with you, would resent the attempt as an insult to your infallibility. It seems odd, that certain men who talk so much of what the Holy Spirit reveals to themselves, should think so little of what he has revealed to others.” (Commenting on Commentaries)
So the subject is a definition of the word “faith”, and embedded in that subject is the question of where we should go for definitions. Why, to the bible of course. But which version of the bible? Which passage? How best are we to understand a given particular verse which describes “faith”? What Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek words are used? Do you know Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek Gene? If not, and you have already, albeitly in a very indirect way ;), admitted that you don't. So then, we ask; who does? THAT'S the very source one should go to in order to find out the definition. Elementary, and most germane to the topic at hand. And so we should go to teachers who DO KNOW the biblical languages, teachers like Strong, Vine, Thayer, Bromily, etc…. these are all teachers that God Himself has given tot he church as a gift!
Ephesians 4:11-14 (ESV) Eph 11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.”
Far be it from me to question God's wisdom! far be it from be to not avail myself of those whom God has given tot the church so that we may not be “carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.” I really think this, in particular, gets to the heart of the reasons behind those who deny the Trinity, but that is another matter, and is, in fact, not the subject at hand. 😉
So, once again, you are unacquainted with the full counsel of God Gene, as you say that “we have no need of (ANY) man to teach us…” referring to 1 Jn 2:7…. This is such a basic, simplistic error, but you need to be corrected on this matter…. so whether you choose to be corrected or not is, I guess, between you and God, I will just be obedient and try to help you in your very muddled thinking on this subject.
If this teaching, that we have no need of (ANY) man to teach us… HAS to be taken in an absolute exhaustive sense….. then guess what Gene…? You are included in the absolute (ANY) man category!!! What this means is that you would be a hypocrite to try and teach me or anyone else anything at all concerning biblical truth!!! ROFLOL!! You see, if what you are saying is true in an absolute sense, then you have no right…. NO RIGHT at all, in fact you would be disobedient to God's word by trying to teach (ANY) man (ANYTHING), including both the idea that we ought not teach any man anything(!!!), as well as the subject of the proper definition of the word “faith”!!!! LOL!!!! So what are you doing here Gene….? Here you are starting a thread on the topic and definition of faith, aiming to teach others what the proper definition of faith is, when all the while none of us need to have (ANY) man to teach us, for the Spirit itself teaches us all things, including the definition of faith!! You are being both disobedient and a hypocrite!!! Well… that would be true only if what you were saying about needing no man needs (ANY) man to teach him or her anything at all, and hopefully by now you can see how hopelessly absurd and contradictory it would be to try and adhere to such a false teaching.
So what is John saying in his first epistle…?
“They do not need anyone to teach is not suggesting that they had no teachers, or that they knew everything and didn't need to be taught. Rather, it means that, as a congregation, they did not need anyone to teach them again the essentials of the faith that the false teachers were denying. They already had the truth (the anointing) and did not need anyone else (Gnostics, who claimed special inner knowledge) to tell them what was true.
—Holman New Testament Commentary“This linkage of the Spirit and the word helps one to make sense of the difficult phrase that follows. It seems odd that John, given the didactic nature of this epistle, would say to the community that “you do not need anyone to teach you.” John is not denying the importance and place of human teachers. The mere fact that he wrote this letter is sufficient proof. This claim that they have no need of someone to teach them echoes the promises that Jesus made in the Gospel that the Paraclete would lead them into all truth (John 14:16–17, 26; 16:13). The ministry of the Spirit worked through the apostles (not the heretics) to b
ring the message of salvation that is found in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Here was the reliable truth they were taught. Additional revelation was not needed; indeed it could be deadly. Spiritual illumination of the received traditions was the pattern they should follow. In addition, it is the fulfillment of the promise of the new covenant in which all the members of the community are taught by God (John 6:45) and no one needs to be taught by his neighbor, for the law of God will be written on their hearts, and they will know God.—New American CommentaryAnd voila!! There you have it…. the importance of having teachers is shown in that we “may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes”, including the self contradictory, self referentially false, absurd notion that none of us need teachers!!!
So don't be arrogant…. don't be dense…. you are not the only one the Holy Spirit speaks through…. God the Holy Spirit has spoken through many others as well, and we would be unwise to think otherwise.
blessings,
KenNovember 8, 2008 at 2:31 am#111486GeneBalthropParticipantep….you say don't be arrogant…..don't be dense…………good advice you need to take it, and when did i ever say i was the only one the HOLY SPIRIT speaks through. Do you have to lie to try to make other think your right . If you want to believe ever Scholar that fits your ideology that fine with me. I personally chose not to And there are plenty that disagree with what your scholars also. IMO
November 8, 2008 at 3:54 am#111492942767ParticipantQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 02 2008,13:22) 942767……….No one forced me to , in fact i never had ever tithe, and still don't, we are (not under) the tithing laws at all. I merely did it to test and prove GOD to Myself. In fact when later I joined the WWCG and began to be brought under the tithing laws it didn't work any longer. Profit or anything else had nothing to do with it, it was for real proof only of His existence and Him dealing with me personally. If a person thinks he can tithe and get some wealth from God it won't work , because God looks on the Heart and Knows the reasons behind everything we do, He know my reason was for proof (ONLY) and nothing else, and He proved himself to me that way. peace to you and yours……………gene
Hi Gene:I do tithe not because I am under the law but because I love God and people and want to do whatever is within my power using whatever material things and talents in obedience to God to share the gospel and to relieve people from the oppression of the devil.
Tithing is a principle for giving. It is not a law. Whatever we do in obedience to God is out of the motive of love. If it is not from this motive, God does not honor it, and so, if you don't want to tithe or give any thing don't. Just as he told Ananias and Saphira what you possess you have the power to use it however you wish.
Quote
Act 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,Act 5:2 And kept back [part] of the price, his wife also being privy [to it], and brought a certain part, and laid [it] at the apostles' feet.
Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God
What God has done in blessing you for tithing, is to show you that He is a reality and that His Word is true. He said “try me now and see if I do not open the windows of heaven and pour out a blessing…”, and so, God is true to His Word.
Again, I obey Him because I love Him and humanity, but while of course He influences me to obey Him, He does not force me and He did not force you. He is my Father, and I am led by His Spirit.
God Bless
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