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Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 22 2009,08:48) G,
God has never said the lake of fire has been cancelled.
Nick………..your taking something that was intended to be symbolically understood and applying it literally. That is a major Problem Here, The book of Revelations was symbolized look up the word (signified it) . God the Father is not in the KILLING HIS CREATION Business, But the saving His creation Business, and I as well a Jesus trust He knows How, so let go along with Him OK> IMOpeace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 22 2009,08:48) G,
God has never said the lake of fire has been cancelled.
Rev.20:14 …14 And death and the unseen were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death-the lake of fire.
15 And if anyone was not found written in the scroll of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.Notice, it is the “second death” Next, see what happens to 'death'. in 1Cor.15:26 …25 For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy is being abolished: death.
So, when death is abolished, all will live!God will be “ALL in all”, not 'some' or 'a few' but “ALL”.
(All means all, unless you believe the meaning has changed)
Blessings.
Chosenone……….Amen, Amen, Our Father is in the saving Business not destroying His Children or Creation, as some would love to see it , that is as long as they are not the ones being done away with. Because of their supposed (FREE WILL) Standing. They profess GOD but (DENY) the power there of. They discredit GOD the FATHER by taking to themselves their salvation, not understanding it is by (GRACE) they are saved and (NOT) of themselves.
Peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene
G,
God can and wants to so will?
You presume too much.
Check what is writtenRev20
15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.Quote (Gene @ April 22 2009,08:40) Georg………I understood you as speaking of the present time, Now seeing we are (ALL) sinners then who can say who will be eternally destroyed in any resurrection first or second, GOD is Able to SAVE (ALL) His Creation as scripture says. In fact it says He will save (ALL) his creation. Who is to say if anyone will continue to disobey in the Judgment, isn't that what the Judgment is all about to save all. God has already Judged all under sin that He might have mercy on (ALL). Remember you or Nick or anyone else Have no Power to save or condemn anyone. Unto His own master he will stand of fall and stand He will because GOD is able to make Him stand. Your salvation is between you and GOD just as everyones else is also, so lets let GOD be the Judge, He is quite able to save ALL, and to give (ALL) repentance if He so chooses, even if it is through intense Judgments (FIRE) of HIS. IMO love and peace to you and Irene………………………gene
GeneRev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.These are all the once, who, after having received nothing but truth, allowed themselves to be deceived by Satan the devil, and will be destroyed instantly by God for ever.
I'm not sure what your believe is on death, death is death, meaning, not being alive. Those that sin, will receive death.Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
God will be all, in all that remain alive.
Georg
Georg …. you say those that sin, will recieve death, Then you quote ” for the wage of sin is death; but the gift of GOD is eternal life through Jesus Christ our lord. Seeing all have sinned and come short of the Glory of GOD, them please tell us who is going to be burned up then. Is it us all because we all are sinners according to John , For he who says he is without sin is a liar and the truth is not in Him right? So who gets the free Gift and who doesn't. And your assumption that the Millennium reign of Christ and the Saint's are for the second resurrection people is not found in scripture at all brother. In fact the people of that time period (only) keep God's Laws and commandments is because the Evil influence in the earth is removed by GOD the FATHER for that period of time only. It has nothing to do with the second resurrection. IMO
love and peace to you and Irene……………………….gene
G,
All are not gifted by God.
Rom9
20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
You seem so enamored of your own concepts that truth passes you by.
Gene
Do you agree that the first resurrection is for the saints, the bride, only?
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
The fact that this is called the first resurrection shows there has to be a second.
The fact that those who are in the first resurrection can not die again, shows that those who are in the second resurrection, can.
Why do you ask me to show you again who will be burned up, can you not read what the bible says? Rev. 20:8,9.
If the second resurrection is not for the rest of the people, then who is it for?
The gift of eternal life is given only to those who obey God.
Those who follow Satan in his rebellion, Rev. 20:8,9, did not.
What is so confusing about that?Georg
Georg…> Let me say first i believe in the first and the second resurrections but, 1..show me that written, that the second resurrection is the people in the millennial reign of Jesus and the Saints . 2 show me one person that is not found in the Lambs book of Life. Tell us how Hell and death can be thrown into a literial FIRE. The Lake of FIRE is INTENSE JUDGMENT, as Shown else where in scriptures, it is Not a Literal FIRE. I could give you scripture that back this up but you probably already know them.
Rev 9:18…..> By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
DO you like Nick really think that this is a real fire and Smoke and brimstone,comes out of their mouth or is it symbolic for intense judgments which cost the lives of some 1/3 of the people on earth.
Rev 14: 11…> And the smoke of their torment ascends up forever and ever. and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and His image.
Now how do we make a literial fire to give literial smoke to rise forever and ever. YOU can't. This smoke is the results of GOD'S intense Judgments. a lesson the will always be seen and understood forever and ever.And this apply' s to those who continue to worship the beast and His image. Not the one who cease to. The Judgment of GOD will remain on them as long as they continue to worship the beast or his image.
The lake of fire is INTENSE JUDGMENTS of GOD, and its Smoke i Represents the result of that intense Judgment of GOD. It will never be allowed to be forgotten. It will serve as a constant reminder for ever. Georg, you have to remember the book of revelations was signified, GOD signified it (symbolized) it.
Their is not (LITERAL) Lake of FIRE, IMO.
love and peace to you and Irene……….gene
Gene
Death and grave are inseparable, you die, some one will put you in your grave.
The way you destroy both is, you destroy the one who has the power over death.Hbr 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
1Cr 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.That is how you destroy death, by destroying Satan; no more death, no more grave.
Whether there is a real lake of fire is besides the point, all those whose names are not found in the book of life, will be destroyed.
How do you suggest all those who never even heard the name Jesus, will get their name into the book of life?Georg
To those who think that God will save every single soul.
The wicked will perish.
The wicked will be destroyed.
These are written many times.If a man rejects God, will God go against that mans choice and force him to live with God forever?
No. God will give every man what he has earned. Some will have wages for eternal life, and others will persish.Have you not heard that God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Not all choose to believe. That is their choice and who are you to take that away from anyone?
Georg,
You say …God will be all, in all that remain alive.No Georg, you can't change scripture. If it meant what you say it means, it would be written that way, but it is not.
Changing scripture to show what YOU want it to mean, only shows ignorance of what is really written.
Blessings.
T8……….And who are you to trash anyones life to fit you theologies, God is quite able to save all> You tend to think your own Choices is what saves you leaving out GOD'S Power in the salvation process. But scripture says we are saved By grace, show us where any scripture say we are saved by our so-called free will choices. If Jesus said (NO) man can come unto me unless the Father draw Him , show us were free choices are involved there, in fact show us the words (FREE WILL) in the entire bible. You fail to realize that GOD gets into the heart and mind of a person and (CREATES) a NEW Person.
You don't realize we are CREATED UNTO GOOD WORKS, WE don't choose unto good works. For it is God who (WORKS) in you both to will and DO His good pleasure. You want to put salvation into the hand of Man and remove it from the hand of God. For you are saved by (GRACE) and that (NOT) of yourselves, it is a Gift of GOD, T8 now which part of that don't you understand. The wicked are destroyed and Evil is destroyed and all sin also is destroyed, but the question is How is it by destroying the person or destroying the evil in the person. WE contend its by destroying the evil in the person by cleansing Him with GOD'S Spirit (Intellect) or Washing by the words of GOD, Same thing.
Jesus plainly said the people could not understand His words unless it had been given them, so how could they choose BY the So-called FREE WILLS which is found nowhere in scripture. And all men reject GOD, “for there is non righteous no not even ONE” God said He look for JUST ONE and could not find ONE. A man will choose what is most influencing Him and if that is the Spirit of GOD then He will Choose GOD'S way. ” the gentiles who have not the Law but do the things contained in them show the Law written on the Heart by the Hand of GOD”, What part of that did they choose by their so-called (FREE WILLS) . You profess GOD T8 but deny the power there of, you are robbing GOD and Putting Salvation into mans Hands, like Nick does. BY your so-called free will choices. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 22 2009,17:33) Context CO.
The words of 1Cor are to the saved not the heathen masses.
Nick……what about the other scriptures i posted , which i noticed you conveniently did not commit on. Because they show the it is ALL not Just some as you assert. Give us your rendition of what this says.1 Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the SAVIOR of ALL MEN, especially of those the believe.
You either accept it or reject it that is your influenced choice, not FREE Choice.
Quote (chosenone @ April 22 2009,17:28) Georg,
You say …God will be all, in all that remain alive.No Georg, you can't change scripture. If it meant what you say it means, it would be written that way, but it is not.
Changing scripture to show what YOU want it to mean, only shows ignorance of what is really written.
Blessings.
Show me the scriptures that I have changed, and then we talk about ignorance.Georg
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 22 2009,22:21) G,
God saves men every day.
Unless he sent His rain to the wicked they would perish
Nick……….Good way to skirt the question and Scripture quoted. Your answer is totally since less. As i have said before ” You can't corner a snake in a brier Patch”. IMOpeace and love to you and yours………………….gene
G,
If the verse meant eternal salvation how are those who believe any more saved than others?1 Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the SAVIOR of ALL MEN, especially of those the believe.
Quote (Cindy @ April 22 2009,13:26) Quote (Gene @ April 22 2009,08:40) Georg………I understood you as speaking of the present time, Now seeing we are (ALL) sinners then who can say who will be eternally destroyed in any resurrection first or second, GOD is Able to SAVE (ALL) His Creation as scripture says. In fact it says He will save (ALL) his creation. Who is to say if anyone will continue to disobey in the Judgment, isn't that what the Judgment is all about to save all. God has already Judged all under sin that He might have mercy on (ALL). Remember you or Nick or anyone else Have no Power to save or condemn anyone. Unto His own master he will stand of fall and stand He will because GOD is able to make Him stand. Your salvation is between you and GOD just as everyones else is also, so lets let GOD be the Judge, He is quite able to save ALL, and to give (ALL) repentance if He so chooses, even if it is through intense Judgments (FIRE) of HIS. IMO love and peace to you and Irene………………………gene
GeneRev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.These are all the once, who, after having received nothing but truth, allowed themselves to be deceived by Satan the devil, and will be destroyed instantly by God for ever.
I'm not sure what your believe is on death, death is death, meaning, not being alive. Those that sin, will receive death.Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
God will be all, in all that remain alive.
Georg
Georg.
The last line in this post, you say …”God will be all, in all that remain”. In 1Cor.15:28 … that God may be All in all.This is the scripture that I refered to that you changed by adding “that remain alive”.
Blessings.
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