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Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 10 2009,06:46) Quote (Gene @ Aug. 10 2009,02:07) Thinker………..Joshua, was not building a Spiritual House , but a Physical one. The rest will start when Jesus returns , “FOR THERE REMAINS A KEEPING OF THE SABBATH FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD”, that takes place in Millennial reign of Christ. IMO peace and love…………………gene
Exactly! This is why we can't say that Joshua was on the same level with Jesus. Btw, you said that Jesus is building the house. Hebrews says that the one who builds the house is “counted worthy” of EQUAL glory with God.Quote For this One has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who built the house has more honor than the house. 4 For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things is God. thinker
Hi thethinker:God built the house through Jesus His Only Begotten Son and His Christ.
Quote 2Cr 5:18 And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 2Cr 5:19 TO WIT THAT GOD WAS IN CHRIST, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Quote Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father? Jhn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: BUT THE FATHER THAT DWELLETH IN ME, HE DOETH THE WORKS.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Gene @ Aug. 07 2009,03:00) CB……….Why did Jesus say (HE) could do nothing of HIMSELF if He was GOD almighty. Ask yourself why would the fullness (DWELL) in him if He were GOD, it would (BE) him. You are doing exactly what Trinitarians do taking things out of context and confusing one scripture with another, The doctrine of the Trinity comes from deluded minds and is not a sound teaching, it is the (SUM) of GOD'S word that is truth, not parts taken out of context. There are hundreds of scriptures that contradict what you have posted. IMO peace and love……………………gene
It is another good post my brother Gene.
Trinitarians and preexistence believers read and re-read the same scriptures but can never reach the truth. They have to unlearn many things to reach such truth.Thanks and love to you
adamQuote (gollamudi @ Aug. 14 2009,19:23) Quote (Gene @ Aug. 07 2009,03:00) CB……….Why did Jesus say (HE) could do nothing of HIMSELF if He was GOD almighty. Ask yourself why would the fullness (DWELL) in him if He were GOD, it would (BE) him. You are doing exactly what Trinitarians do taking things out of context and confusing one scripture with another, The doctrine of the Trinity comes from deluded minds and is not a sound teaching, it is the (SUM) of GOD'S word that is truth, not parts taken out of context. There are hundreds of scriptures that contradict what you have posted. IMO peace and love……………………gene
It is another good post my brother Gene.
Trinitarians and preexistence believers read and re-read the same scriptures but can never reach the truth. They have to unlearn many things to reach such truth.Thanks and love to you
adam
Once you said that people need to approach the knowledge about Jesus with Jewish eyes and what is interesting about that is if a person does not have a firm grasp of monotheism they will automatically descend into a polytheistic consciousness.Most people cannot help it, Today's Christianity is like hinduism and in hinduism scriptures it actually explains that polytheism is a form of ignorance that is only transcended when God is focused on exclusively.
In otherwords the highest form of even hinduism is Motheistic.
We can see clearly from the catholic church that as time went on more and more components became deified to the point of even the worship of relics such as crosses, and symbols
Gene said:
Quote CB……….Why did Jesus say (HE) could do nothing of HIMSELF if He was GOD almighty Gene,
Why did Jesus say He will do as He will when He is exalted if He is not God Almighty?New King James Version (NKJV)
John 5:21 “For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom HE WILL.”
It appears a change took place. Before His exaltation He could do nothing of Himself. After His exaltation He does whatsoever HE WILLS. Before His exaltation He was God in humility. After His exaltation He was God WITH POWER.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 16 2009,07:38) Gene said: Quote CB……….Why did Jesus say (HE) could do nothing of HIMSELF if He was GOD almighty Gene,
Why did Jesus say He will do as He will when He is exalted if He is not God Almighty?New King James Version (NKJV)
John 5:21 “For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom HE WILL.”
It appears a change took place. Before His exaltation He could do nothing of Himself. After His exaltation He does whatsoever HE WILLS. Before His exaltation He was God in humility. After His exaltation He was God WITH POWER.
thinker
Hi thethinker:He is not God Almighty but God has highly exalted him as Lord over all of creation:
Quote Jhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: Jhn 5:23 That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Jhn 5:24 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Jhn 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Jhn 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Quote Jhn 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. Love in Christ,
MartyQuote Nick,
The name “Jesus” means “Jehovah saves.” It is NOT the Father's name. The name belongs to Christ ALONE! I challenge you to disprove this.thinker
Hi The Thinker.
You repeat this a few times. I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Many Bible names had Jehovah's name in them.Marty said:
Quote God built the house through Jesus His Only Begotten Son and His Christ. God builds the house THROUGH THE CO-OPERATION OF CHRIST. Hebrews 3:3 says that Christ is “counted worthy” of the glory of the builder.
Expalin why God counts Jesus worthy of the glory.
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 08 2009,14:32) Hi TT,
So Jesus is not God.
Did you think he was the God worshipped by the Jews?
NHIf the Jews knew the God they claimed to worship, why did they crucify the Lord from heaven?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 09 2009,06:43) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 08 2009,14:32) Hi TT,
So Jesus is not God.
Did you think he was the God worshipped by the Jews?
NHIf the Jews knew the God they claimed to worship, why did they crucify the Lord from heaven?
WJ
Yes WJ,
The Jews did not worship God. Otherwise they would have accepted Christ.TO NICK: You did not answer my point. God builds the house THROUGH Jesus. And Jesus is “counted worthy” of the glory for it.
thinker
Hi WJ,
They knew Jesus was not their God and Jesus confirmed it in Jn8.54.
From Ps2 they knew of the son of God and His given kingly authority as God's servant.
They served their true father who used them to try to frustrate the plans of God but in doing so fulfilled it.[1Cor2.8]Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 09 2009,07:06) Hi WJ, They knew Jesus was not their God and Jesus confirmed it in Jn8.54.
From Ps2 they knew of the son of God and His given kingly authority as God's servant.
They served their true father who used them to try to frustrate the plans of God but in doing so fulfilled it.[1Cor2.8]
This is the second time you have avoided my question. God builds the house THROUGH Jesus. But Jesus is “counted worthy” of glory for it.thinker
hi TT,
And as John said we have seen the glory of the only begotten son.
God works through His son.
What is your point?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 09 2009,07:18) hi TT,
And as John said we have seen the glory of the only begotten son.
God works through His son.
What is your point?
The point is that the glory of which Christ is “counted worthy” is EQUAL to glory given to God (Hebrews 1:1-3).This destroys your argument “God was IN Christ reconciling the world to Himself.” You think this infers that Jesus is less than God. But Peter said this: “to Jesus Christ be the glory both NOW and for ever” (2 Peter 3:18).
So you see that when God works THROUGH Christ it is in co-operation with Christ. This is why the apostles say “to Christ be the glory.” Christ gets the SAME glory that God gets.
thinker
Hi TT,
Why would you argue with Paul whose servanthood is not in doubt?
Did you not think Jesus submitted to God?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 09 2009,07:34) Hi TT,
Why would you argue with Paul whose servanthood is not in doubt?
Did you not think Jesus submitted to God?
The apostles said “to Christ be THE glory for ever and ever.” They said also “to the Father be THE glory for ever and ever.” Equal glory implies equality.The servant is not necessarily lesser because he is a servant. If this was the case then Christ is lesser than the Jews for Paul said He is the servant of the circumcision (Romans 15:8). Are missionaries who serve in third world countries lesser than the people to which they are servants?
“To Christ be THE glory both NOW and forever.”
thinker
Hi TT,
Are you trying to show by obscure reasoning that any glory belongs to God and thus Jesus having glory must be God?
Even the sun, moon and stars have their own glory[1Cor15]If you were straight up with scripture you would not have to waste so much time with doctrinal justifications.
Hi TT,
Ps 2 Shows the functional equality that Jesus was given in the kingdom of God and 1 Cor 15 shows that he submits the kingdom again to his Father God.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 08 2009,15:52) Hi TT,
Are you trying to show by obscure reasoning that any glory belongs to God and thus Jesus having glory must be God?
Even the sun, moon and stars have their own glory[1Cor15]If you were straight up with scripture you would not have to waste so much time with doctrinal justifications.
NHThat is the point. The stars have their own Glory, but Jesus shares glory with the Father as the builder or creator!
You cannot see the difference?
WJ
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