Why don&#39;t christians believe tha god sent muhammad

Participant

Oh sorry I didnt see that post above this one. I was replying to an earlier post of yours ha.

May 26, 2010 at 1:55 am#192250

Participant

Quote (karmarie @ May 26 2010,11:26)

You didn't answer my question what was Galatians referring to?

May 26, 2010 at 6:03 am#192288

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qur'an

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 26 2010,08:34)

Simply Forgiven
Thank you so much for addressing this post with reason, love and respect.

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it seems your frustrated with people who dont believe, to me, i see you, as most feel when they feel they have the abosulte Truth, yet others dont see it that way, which brings friction, and a desperate attempt to save everyone, even though you feel that they are blind.

Only God knows the absolute truth because God is THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH so we can only work with the information and Holy Spirit HE has given us to guide us.

I don't feel that anyone is blind it is the scriptures themselves that point this out.

And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
Luke 8:9-11

That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
Mark 4:11-13

So we clearly see that it is supported by the scriptures.

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I think the (Divided) Christians do not take Muhammad as a prophet for a number of reasons.
I would like to know if my information is correct by the way,
Wasnt Muhammed born 100-500 years after Christ?
Wouldnt that also mean that the Quaran was written 500 years later as well?

Islam holds that the Qur’an was repeatedly revealed from Allah to Muhammad orally through the angel Jibrīl (Gabriel) over a period of approximately twenty-three years, beginning in 610 CE, when he was forty, and concluding in 632 CE, the year of his death.[2][6][7] Followers of Islam further believe that the Qur’an was memorized, recited and written down by Muhammad's companions after every revelation dictated by Muhammad. Most of Muhammad's companions, tens of thousands, learned the Qur’an by heart, repeatedly recited in front of Muhammad for his approval or the approval of other Sahabas Muhammad approved and also compiled it in written form while he was alive.

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God promises to perserve his word, God can never lie.

The Quran is a preservation and restoration of God's word. The Bible demonstrates that scribes altered the word of God:

How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.
Jeremiah 8:7-9

literal translation:

8How do ye say, We [are] wise, And the law of Jehovah [is] with us? Surely, lo, falsely it hath wrought, The false pen of scribes.

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When did an angel at any other time inspire scripture?

Gabriel was the Angel who spoke to Mary and Taught Daniel the prophecies

1.Daniel 8:16
And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

Daniel 8:15-17 (in Context) Daniel 8 (Whole Chapter)
2.Daniel 9:21
Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
Daniel 9:20-22 (in Context) Daniel 9 (Whole Chapter)

3.Luke 1:19
And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.
Luke 1:18-20 (in Context) Luke 1 (Whole Chapter)

4.Luke 1:26
And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
Luke 1:25-27 (in Context) Luke 1 (Whole Chapter)

This was the same Angel Gabriel who was sent to Muhammad. not to mention there was also an angel who delivered the book of revelation to John

Revelation 1
1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

2Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

also:

This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush.
Acts 7:34-36

If there was an angel in the bush that spoke to Moses then it was that Angel who said “I will be what I will be”

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Yet from what i read of the Quran, Allah psychological character does not fit with the God of the bible.

In what way? God hates sin and loves those who repent that is one consistent thought

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Can one limit God to one name?

God is only named in regards to attributes i.e. The Just , The Merciful, The Compassionate, Jealous…etc

We have names that are not the same as the meaning of God having a Name as no one named God, HE IS WHAT HE IS.

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I believe Christ to be more than just a prophet.
So there for its irrevelant to say that he is the Final Prophet,

He is more than a Prophet and he was a Sign from God and a Word from HIM.

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in the bible it mentions the five ministries, which one of them is being a prophet.

Acts 11:26-28 (King James Version)

26And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

27And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.

28And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.

And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.
Acts 15:31-33

And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
1 Corinthians 12:27-29

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Lets define what Prophet is by the way.

In religion, a prophet is an individual who has been contacted by, or has encountered, the supernatural or the divine, and serves as an intermediary with humanity, delivering this newfound knowledge from the supernatural entity to other humans.[1][2] The message that the prophet conveys is called a prophecy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet

Most people believe that a prophet it someone who tells the future but if you read the scriptures you will find that most prophets are warning the people of what they should be doing to please GOD right at that time.

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Second: another observation when i believed in nothing, is that the koran stories are similiar to the bible, yet are not the same. They hold some foundation but add others.

Often once you read them both you get clarification of what actually occured. For instance you find out that Mary's Mother dedicated her to THE LORD before she was born. You find out that Mary didn't give birth in a manger although she was in a manger with Jesus.

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p.s. Final Question, Do you believe God to be the abosulte Truth. That there is a perfect God? if so, if God is the only one who can understand abosulte truth and knowledge, than that would mean that that the aboslute truth would kill us, to know everything would kills us, its to much information, so is it possible to be wrong?
Is it possible for us as humans to have error or to be wrong?

Our Goal is to not be right or wrong for God Alone has all knowledge but to Submit to God is to receive guidance from HIM. (God Willing we will do so by being Pure at Heart)

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Only God knows the absolute truth because God is THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH so we can only work with the information and Holy Spirit HE has given us to guide us.

Intresting that you metion the Holy Spirit, since when did Islam believe in the Holy spirit, thats the first i hear of that. It seems that you get frustrated with those who dont believe in islam? How do you view christians Salvation compared to Islam?

lol wikipedia definition? i would rather you explain what you believe the Koran/Quran means. Intresting you said Perservation based on One Person? So one person wrote the whole Quran yet you keep on mentioning the bible alot, even though you say is corrupted?

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The Quran is a preservation and restoration of God's word. The Bible demonstrates that scribes altered the word of God:

So God lied? because to say that the bible is corrupted is indirectly saying that God couldnt keep his word which was inspired?

I think if you mention that the bible is corrupted than the verses you state are not valid.

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Gabriel was the Angel who spoke to Mary and Taught Daniel the prophecies

Intresting that you say that, because all those scriptures were in third person, or second. It was never told that as these writers were writing that the angel was telling them.

By the way the angel in the bush, says I am that I am, not be. “I am that I am” is a name for God. What is presented that the Angel presented to Muhammad is not the same as the revelation to John. notice that John had to open up the book where Ezekial closed it. Also, refering to some angels, note the Angel of Jehovah/Lord always talked for himself as God. Usually angels bring a message but take no authority.
and also note the context of the verse that John was in the very presene of Jesus Christ, but where was the angel? by verse 13, its all about Christ, and his words.

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In what way? God hates sin and loves those who repent that is one consistent thought

Just beacuse i eat and you eat, doesnt mean we are the same. Everyone who believes in a God, have the same basic principles of God, that He is Perfect in some sense. The Perfection of God would be the most important factor. Why are many gods not God, because they all have a weakness, which is imperfect. to make this point short. That if you study the God of the bible, and the Quran, any muslim or Christian will tell you they are not the same, if they were than there would be a unification. Common Foundation doesnt nessarily prove that the two are exactly alike.

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God is only named in regards to attributes i.e. The Just , The Merciful, The Compassionate, Jealous…etc
We have names that are not the same as the meaning of God having a Name as no one named God, HE IS WHAT HE IS.

Not realy. He is also our healer, savior, Hero, God, King, Helper, Friend, in other words God is our everything.
If not, than that would be a limitation. Could yuo agree that God wants to be the very center of your life? than if thats true than to say he is limited by atributes is not valid.

The prophet remark about the five ministries wasnt a question, it was a statement.

What is a True prophet? One who brings messages from God of either Judgement or Salvation, of things to come, or things that are. And the only way to know what they say is real, is that every single word that they said has to happen according to the exact way they mentioned it.

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I find that ironic, because assuming that Moses wrote the Torah, yet he was not around to write such things, so the only speculating Conclusion is that God himself showed him his own history lessons.
Yet now God lies to change the stories….. If you say that God couldnt protect his Word, which i want you to realize the way i think about keeping your word. In history we learn that reputation is mostly based on your word, and if you give it, thats the most important promise you can make, your reputation
is based on it, its like good credit back in the day, and if you dont accomplish one becomes a liar. Why? because he cannot keep his word. That just makes it even more important that God can protect his word, again he said he would protect his Word, not the english language.

With lots of Love and respect,
I hope i wasnt too aggresive,

Your last response about our Goal.

Here is what drives me insane. How can it be that You and I both say we have submitted ourselves to God yet disagree.

Here is the conclusions why this divison happens,

1. Either its not the same God,
2. We have not submitted ourselves compelelty to God.

What do you mean when say to submit ourselves.

I like the way that Christ mentions that we have to deny ourselves. Deny ourselves. Deny ourselves.

I want to deny myself, I rather be wrong than right.
Its safer to be wrong than right. Becuase to claim to have the absolute truth is dangerous. Becuase God is truth. To say well i have 80percent of the Truth, is still a danger because 20percent is wrong. As we grow our beliefs constantly changes, based on either what is taught from childhood, or what is taught by a man, or by our own misunderstandings.

My point being, im starting to realize that we could continue with this discussion… yet it means nothing if we dont both submit ourselves To God and deny everything that we are.

If God is real, and he is who he says he is, than that would mean that If we told God that we are wrong, but yet he is right, than all glory goes to him.

Thats submitting to me, to put everything aside and let God be God, and to let him reveal. In other words, What if im wrong, or what if your wrong, isnt it simpliar to go to God and ask him, literally be non biased and ask God, You know what, You have all the answers who am I to make answers for you.

Does this make sense to you?
Do you agree?

May 26, 2010 at 6:30 am#192297

Participant

ok bod, you obviously dont want me here. For one, youve changed toward me so much, wow unbelievable, for two, the way you speak to anyone else is so …respectfull, kind, you know like you used to speak to me? And you know, 2 others here apologised and you were gratefull and accepted their apology but me, (on another thread) you just ignored it so I guess i'll take a hint. Your problem is that I used to accept- like you did, that theres only one God (Christianity..Islam). But the more I looked at it the more different they became. So I tried to help you see this , why? Because I cared bod. But never mind. I hope one day you'l see this? I wont say anything else to you again . If you genuinly want to know something because your starting to see some light of truth then pm me ok? But like I said I can take a hint.

Goodbye?

May 26, 2010 at 3:29 pm#192342

Participant

Quote (karmarie @ May 26 2010,17:30)

Goodbye?

There is no hint, you know that there is only ONE GOD if you didn't understand I wouldn't have an issue with you but since you know better to me your view has become corrupted.

Also you keep basing that conclusion not on any view about God but on a view about Jesus being equivalent or a partner to God i.e. in other words you have made Jesus a second God and then because of that you imagine even more gods causing you to view this whole matter in a polytheistic way.

Once you view Jesus as The Christ and God as Sovereign you can then be brought back to a monotheistic mind frame.

The fact is that I am not treating you differently and I still love you but you are thinking I am treating you differently because your view has been altered to a state of polytheism.

May 26, 2010 at 5:09 pm#192348

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 26 2010,17:03)

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Intresting that you metion the Holy Spirit, since when did Islam believe in the Holy spirit, thats the first i hear of that.

It's because you haven't read the Quran

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It seems that you get frustrated with those who dont believe in islam?

Actually, I get frustrated with polytheistic thinking, there are plenty of Christians that are Monotheistic that do not frustrate me.

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How do you view christians Salvation compared to Islam?

All salvation is based on the mercy of God.

For His mercy He specially chooseth whom He pleaseth; for Allah is the Lord of bounties unbounded.
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #74)

The Bible agrees and Jesus was sent as a Mercy and a Sign of the Hour but when he will return even he does not know and why?

“Verily the hour is coming – My design is to keep it hidden – for every soul to receive its reward by the measure of its Endeavour.
( سورة طه , Taha, Chapter #20, Verse #15)

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lol wikipedia definition? i would rather you explain what you believe the Koran/Quran means.

The Quran is simply a revelation from God as delivered by Gabriel The Angel

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Intresting you said Perservation based on One Person?

On One Truth

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So one person wrote the whole Quran yet you keep on mentioning the bible alot, even though you say is corrupted?

If I pick up a Catholic Bible which was the first canonized Bible and it has 73 books and a protestant Bible has 66 books is that corrupt?

So even you have to admit the Bible has either 73 or 66 books and some parts like I explained about the book of Mark are either added or taken away so both will not be right or uncorrupted correct? We are not talking about different translations we are talking here about different versions

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The Quran is a preservation and restoration of God's word. The Bible demonstrates that scribes altered the word of God:

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So God lied? because to say that the bible is corrupted is indirectly saying that God couldnt keep his word which was inspired?

How is it, that God would have lied when the scribes have messed with the words and I just demonstrated to you that very point. But God does keep HIS word and did so by sending down the Quran.

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I think if you mention that the bible is corrupted than the verses you state are not valid.

Sure they are because God is so wise and mighty he even protects the corrupted book by saying that:

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
2 Timothy 3:15-17

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Gabriel was the Angel who spoke to Mary and Taught Daniel the prophecies

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Intresting that you say that, because all those scriptures were in third person, or second. It was never told that as these writers were writing that the angel was telling them.

Can you show me a single verse where God talks directly to Jesus?

HE did so with Moses:

I speak with him face to face,Even plainly, and not in dark sayings; And he sees the form of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid To speak against My servant Moses?”
Numbers 12:7-9

The Quran says:

Those apostles We endowed with gifts, some above others: To one of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honour); to Jesus the son of Mary We gave clear (Signs), and strengthened him with the holy spirit. If Allah had so willed, succeeding generations would not have fought among each other, after clear (Signs) had come to them, but they (chose) to wrangle, some believing and others rejecting. If Allah had so willed, they would not have fought each other; but Allah Fulfilleth His plan.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #253)

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By the way the angel in the bush, says I am that I am, not be. “I am that I am” is a name for God.

There is no such thing as “I am” in the Hebrew language.
Considering next the interpretation of Jeffrey Tigay, who in his comments on Exodus 3:13-15 in the Jewish Study Bible states that there is a divine name in Exodus 3:14, but he doesn’t identify what part of the verse it is.[42] He proffers “I Will Be What I Will Be” for the translation of ehyeh asher ehyeh and interprets its meaning as “My nature will become evident from My actions”, which is very similar to the first of the six interpretations in Exodus Rabbah and that espoused by Buber and Rosenzweig. He regards ehyeh asher ehyeh as the explanation of the name YHWH (as did Maimonides) and the ehyeh of 3:14b as a shortened form of ehyeh asher ehyeh (as did Halevi) and as the first person form of the verb root hayah (as did several others considered above) and to mean “I Will Be”. He understands YHWH to be the corresponding third-person form of hay
ah (as does Sarna amongst others) and to mean “He Will Be”. His interpretation thus draws from a wide variety of sources and from diverse approaches to the interpretation of the verse, which is perhaps appropriate for a study Bible.

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What is presented that the Angel presented to Muhammad is not the same as the revelation to John. notice that John had to open up the book where Ezekial closed it.

Open what book?

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Also, refering to some angels, note the Angel of Jehovah/Lord always talked for himself as God. Usually angels bring a message but take no authority.

They do act with authority

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and also note the context of the verse that John was in the very presene of Jesus Christ, but where was the angel? by verse 13, its all about Christ, and his words.

How does this mean Gabriel didn't go to Muhammad?

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No Muslim not one single Muslim will tell you that the God of The Bible is not the God of The Quran because The God of Israel is The ONLY GOD there IS. Muslims practice the religion of Abraham who was neither Jew nor Christian but simply one who submitted to ALLAH

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if they were than there would be a unification.

There is no unification between Jews and Christians and they believe in the same God according to Christians although Jesus is considered a false prophet and false Messiah to Jews. Why is that?

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Common Foundation doesnt nessarily prove that the two are exactly alike.

Once again the Jews?

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Not realy. He is also our healer, savior, Hero, God, King, Helper, Friend, in other words God is our everything.

Exactly HE IS WHAT HE IS and WILL BE WHAT HE WILL BE

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If not, than that would be a limitation. Could yuo agree that God wants to be the very center of your life? than if thats true than to say he is limited by atributes is not valid.

I agree

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The prophet remark about the five ministries wasnt a question, it was a statement.

Not really because sometimes a Prophet can act presumptuosly didn't Jesus say:

But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
Matthew 10:22-24

Of course he didn't come at that time although he thought it.

Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Matthew 16:27-28

It would be safe to say that all who were standing there have died and Jesus has not returned yet especially not in his kingdom.

But he did also say to his benefit that he didn't know when he would return.

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With lots of Love and respect,
I hope i wasnt too aggresive,

No you acted with reason and passion

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Your last response about our Goal.

Here is what drives me insane. How can it be that You and I both say we have submitted ourselves to God yet disagree.

The disciples were actually living with Jesus and they didn't agree on everything either

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Here is the conclusions why this divison happens,

1. Either its not the same God,
2. We have not submitted ourselves compelelty to God.

Or we are paying attention to different aspects of God

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What do you mean when say to submit ourselves.

To be obedient and listen

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I like the way that Christ mentions that we have to deny ourselves. Deny ourselves. Deny ourselves.

My point being, im starting to realize that we could continue with this discussion… yet it means nothing if we dont both submit ourselve
s To God and deny everything that we are.

I agree.

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If God is real, and he is who he says he is, than that would mean that If we told God that we are wrong, but yet he is right, than all glory goes to him.

Does this make sense to you?
Do you agree?

I agree.

May 27, 2010 at 8:15 am#192446

http://www.delusionresistance.org/christian/time-godof.html

Participant

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It's because you haven't read the Quran

I have, even though its been a long time, I never saw that point presented, than again i never read the whole thing.
Have your read the whole thing? are you required to?
Yet you have convinced me to go back to my studies of the Quran. Man… I havent even studied the Mormon bible yet. I was hoping too. I find Islam a better adventure, Mormons lol just are confusing.

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All salvation is based on the mercy of God.
For His mercy He specially chooseth whom He pleaseth; for Allah is the Lord of bounties unbounded.

Intresting i found this qoute from a Muslim, tell me your input on this?
” Is Your Wudu Valid ? What should be done if you forget to say bismillah before wudu? Do it again…. coz your wudu is not valid. Making wudu is not only physical cleanliness it is a spiritual purity too. Salah (prayer) is not valid without Wudu' or Tayammum(dry Ablution)”
Is it more than mercy?
I started watching this individual named Khalid Yasin,
Which i find him very hilarious
here is one of his videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvq_yigisnA&feature=related
Why i say he is funny, is because In one video he speaks really American ghetto and with a perfect American accent, and than out of no where he has a accent in another video!
Im sorry that just makes me laugh in so many ways.
Its like hearing a baptist african american pastor preaching and than hearing an accent. its crazy.

Seperate from that.
How do you please a perfect God? if we are imperfect? Dont we always fail him?
I thuoght that Muslims wouldnt call God a redeemer,saviour,or a deliverer. (Isaiah 45:21-23) whats the point of mentioning Scripture if to you if its corrupted…hmm.. we can only see what we believe. If you cant open your mind enough to consider that the bible might not be corrupt, than there is no point to continue. Again, trust me when i say i consider your points. I listen, i hope you can listen to me as well.

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Sure they are because God is so wise and mighty he even protects the corrupted book by saying that:

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
2 Timothy 3:15-17

Than you have contradicted yourself. this is a fallacy. Why would a Perfect God protect a corrupted Book? so Gods word can be corrupted? you mean that He can be corrupted? This is what you are saying if that is true. Whats funnier is that your next comment even though its in the wrong order, just contradicts you further. Your stating basicaly that the tiny differnse makes up for the contradiction of the Quran. The bible and the Quran are not one. They agree in common foundation, but they are not the same. This is why you using biblical scripture doesnt make sense. Its like giving me garbage or leftovers or chewed on food and telling me to eat.

God hates corruption, he hates sin. How can God tolerate such a thing. He would remove it from existance.
Obeservation: Your using 2 Timonthy 3:16 to validate curropted scripture? so your using this verse to validate scripture from the Quran? Why do muslims use the bible as referense when they say its corrupted lol. its not 15 nor 17 its 16.

look what 15 says.
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

this contradicts your statment. remember consider Context.

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Did you know that [Some of the earliest manuscripts do not include 16:9-20.] in the book of Mark? so if I have a bible and you have a bible and you tell me to turn to Mark 16:9-20 and it isn't in mines but it is in yours is that corrupt?
If I pick up a Catholic Bible which was the first canonized Bible and it has 73 books and a protestant Bible has 66 books is that corrupt?
So even you have to admit the Bible has either 73 or 66 books and some parts like I explained about the book of Mark are either added or taken away so both will not be right or uncorrupted correct? We are not talking about different translations we are talking here about different versions

lol I find that funny, because that detailed explantion of that verse is detailed in the gospel of John. Lets just say as my proffesor once said that Mark was in a hurry. They say that mark was the very boy who ranaway naked when Jesus was arrested, and that he was the one that was rejected by Paul and than finaly accepted. Actually its not, because it agrees with Johns gospel. If your going to provide a claim, i have to see it as well. I can tell you that at night i see aliens, doesnt mean anything until you meet them. Please show me your source so that we can validate your claim. Do you realize what the bible is? Do you understand that the Bible has MANY Writers. Yet they all agree in the same personality of God. They give referense to eachother. They agree in so many aspects yet many never met eachother. yet agree?

In court according to Testimony and evidence, what holds more one persons testimony or many?
Which one would the Perfect God who makes perfect Choices choose to establish his word.

The Catholic point you make is irrevalent due to religious dogma. The bible is a a book of Testimony and History, its God story with us. His word, his Promesis. Martin Luther by the way showed alot of reasons why the way Catholics viewed things were just wrong. You have to understand that the Bible is made up of many differnet books, so that means that the Catholics just was too open for their fantasies of saints and just tpo open for everything.

In other words. If we are going to prove what bible holds to be more true. Lets be legal about this… lets see, The people who actualy wrote testimonies about there one on one encounter with God or the one person who was told about such expierences through an Angel?

in other words, the person who was there vs the person who was told about it 600 years later?
Im not trying to insult you, just wanted you to see how i see it. Is this Valid? So i see your mission, you HAVE to disprove the bible in order for the Quran to be True. Im starting to believe that if The Quran is out of the picture, what is left of the Faith?

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Often once you read them both you get clarification of what actually occured…..

Im going to re-respond to this point you made. the Quran is more like the outline of the bible. They agree in common foundation yet the Quran leaves out alot of information, and its stories are not exactly like the bibles. here is one example, The bible says which son that Abraham was going to scrafise, yet the Quran does not state anything concerning which one. The Quran differs in stories, left out some stories, denys God as
the father, and Jesus as the Son of God, and his very crucifiction. thats just the gist of it.
If i were muslim, i would not read the bible and use it to validate Islam. I once met a converted Islam to Christianity, she used the Quran book to convert Muslims to Christianity, and im thinking, If both religions both believe that the opposing books are corrupted why would you use it to validate your own beliefs?
Doesnt make any sense. I told her that she can do whatever she wants to, but to at least hear my advice, to stick to bible so that people dont get confused. If God is holy, than we should be careful what we use to reference him.

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Can you show me a single verse where God talks directly to Jesus?
HE did so with Moses:
I speak with him face to face,Even plainly, and not in dark sayings; And he sees the form of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid To speak against My servant Moses?”
Numbers 12:7-9

Your running away from the orginal observation i made. literally. Lol i didnt even metion Jesus in that observation… so to me i see your response as random. but either way ill continue. You have to understand what I believe because if you are going to argue that, than here is anothher scripture for you. John 8:58 (Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
So If i believe that Jesus is God, than Moses speaking to God, is as if Speaking to Jesus. one and the same. And if Jesus is connected to the very God, who he talked like, walked like, and never sined, he did only what The father did. What would you do if you met someone who acts exactly alike me?
in every way… the same talk, walk, choices, If i raise my right hand so does he. He walk the same direction and even think alike.

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There is no such thing as “I am” in the Hebrew language.
Considering next the interpretation of Jeffrey Tigay, who in his comments on Exodus 3:13-15 in the Jewish Study Bible states that there is a divine name in Exodus 3:14, but he doesn’t identify what part of the verse it is.[42] He proffers “I Will Be What I Will Be” for the translation of ehyeh asher ehyeh and interprets its meaning as “My nature will become evident from My actions”, which is very similar to the first of the six interpretations in Exodus Rabbah and that espoused by Buber and Rosenzweig. He regards ehyeh asher ehyeh as the explanation of the name YHWH (as did Maimonides) and the ehyeh of 3:14b as a shortened form of ehyeh asher ehyeh (as did Halevi) and as the first person form of the verb root hayah (as did several others considered above) and to mean “I Will Be”. He understands YHWH to be the corresponding third-person form of hayah (as does Sarna amongst others) and to mean “He Will Be”. His interpretation thus draws from a wide variety of sources and from diverse approaches to the interpretation of the verse, which is perhaps appropriate for a study Bible.

let me take out my Hebrew bible, which i can read, and translate. And i get the same. I read it and it does say the same thing, the Hebrew words presented.

I want you to realize something. That ehyeh asher ehyeh reads better as I am that I am because it comes from the Qal imperfect first person form of the verb Hayah, “I will be”
Which makes your point that you posted… incorrect.
just by the fact that you mentiond hayah, means that you have to understand that it comes from the first person form of hayah, but it does not mean literaly i will be, even though one can conclude it to be part of the whole name. or the root of the name. You cant cliam that it doesnt say I am that I am. Its universly accpted to be translated like that.
http://www.hebrew4christians.net/Names_of_G-d/YHVH/yhvh.html
http://www.exodus-314.com/index.p….emid=56

here is a muslim who agrees with me,
http://thetruereligion.wordpress.com/2009….will-be

—–
open what book? I Meant Daniel.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

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Also, refering to some angels, note the Angel of Jehovah/Lord always talked for himself as God. Usually angels bring a message but take no authority.

They do act with authority

Um no they dont. Here let me show you why
Luke1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Notice how Gabriel speaks he speaks in command to God and does not give orders. He speaks of God.
The angel in the bush however is different, first of all he is the Angel of the Lord/Angel of Jehovah, second he spoke in first person, and spoke for himself as I am That I am, and than that Moses reacted in fear to See God.
Big difference here.
When i say that they do not act in authority, as in they do not act as if they have all the authority or majesty to speak as if they are God. in first person.

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and also note the context of the verse that John was in the very presene of Jesus Christ, but where was the angel? by verse 13, its all about Christ, and his words.

How does this mean Gabriel didn't go to Muhammad?

that wasnt my point, the way you used the verse was out of context, you were basicly saying that the same way john was delivered a book, it was the same that Muhammed was.
Im telin you, that you
didnt not consider the context.

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Let me rephrase what i said, No Christian will telll you its the same. Why i say this? because common foundatoins do not prove that the Qurans Allah is the same as God. why i say this, psychological characters are not the same.

You metioned submitted…. So… what is more important for God your submittance or Love? Whats the differense between Faith and Submitting.

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if they were than there would be a unification.

There is no unification between Jews and Christians and they believe in the same God according to Christians although Jesus is considered a false prophet and false Messiah to Jews. Why is that?

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Common Foundation doesnt nessarily prove that the two are exactly alike.

Once again the Jews?

so you disagree with the comment or your trying to prove my point more?

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Not realy. He is also our healer, savior, Hero, God, King, Helper, Friend, in other words God is our everything.

Exactly HE IS WHAT HE IS and WILL BE WHAT HE WILL BE

so you agree with my statement? you believe in the God of everything?
good this is a progress of understanding.
Is God also a redeemer? How come most Muslims will not mention God as their father or as a Redeemer/Savoir?

Anyways…. to extend to what you have agreed.
So Can Gods names be limited? for example: Is he only Love, or can he also be our hope, our leader, our healer. or in other words our everything.
What does Allah mean?

So your saying that a Prophest word can be wrong?
Matthew 10:22-24
do you know who was being persecuted? most usualy relate this to Revelations when the people run from the False idol or whatever. Who was not going over the cities of Israel?
Matthew 16:27-28
its safer to assume that Jesus believed He was God, and that he had a Kingdom, so that the one who has defeated death, can say that Death where is thy sting.

the explantion of limitation would bring light to that subject, yet it would be going off topic. lets stick our subjects, bc we are mentioning so many as it is.

Im glad that you take my post with glee
if we are paying attention to different aspects of God only
which means we have to submit more

Your whole religion is based on submittence right?
how about Reltionship?
What about Love?
do you agree the way that Jesus portayed that God is a loving Father?

(further observations: from what im seeing is that you want to put the Quran in position that it is compelet and not corrupted form of holy scripture more than the bible, yet the Quran comes from the bilble, yet you still use corrupted text. its strange that Muslims use the bible to validate their cliams, yet say its corrupted, so from here on out, i cant take the scriptures you mention to validate the Quran. stick to the Quran for here on out to validate mohummaed and the rest of your claims. just remember in my mind, you see the Scriptures as untrue, so to validate truth with untruth, is a contracdiction and the very death of Truth.”

Paul Washer-“To make all contradicting statements True is the death of Truth”
Observations:
1.) Uncorrupted Quran cannot be validated by the bible because its corrupted
2.) Uncorrupted Quran cannot be validated by the bible because its not corrupted when the Quran says it is.
3.) Uncorrupted Quran can be validated by the bible because it completes the bible which is corrupted, so the uncorrupted and the corrupt come togthor in adultry

Its either or, if theres another option let me know.
But if your going to validate the Quran, stick to the Quran.

With much love,
again i hope that i havent insulted you.
I have alot more to say, but its late, im going to stop here from now,
I will extend later on basically the idea of the God of everything for you and for me.

May 27, 2010 at 10:36 am#192457

Participant

Yeah well I love you too bod, and I wish you all the best, ok.

May 27, 2010 at 10:37 am#192458

Participant

Dennison you do really good posts. Interesting informative. Some of them amazing. Its good to have you on the site.

May 27, 2010 at 6:54 pm#192492

Participant

Quote (karmarie @ May 27 2010,21:37)

Dennison you do really good posts. Interesting informative. Some of them amazing. Its good to have you on the site.

Thank you so much!
Im happy to know that i make any differense at all =)
I strongly believe soon that Romans 8:28 is what is going to happen in this site. why do i say that? because all of us here love God, and I know that God will bring good out of this and unite us in a bond of Love. brotherly love must continue.

Im glad to be here,
and im glad to have met you,
and the amazing people that are here,
who are wise, studious, and in love with God.

I have to reach the extent of everything i know to respond, if i have to study is because this site has pushed me to the limits. And im so happy because i have learned so much.

Much love!

May 27, 2010 at 10:49 pm#192518

http://www.delusionresistance.org/christian/time-godof.html

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 27 2010,19:15)

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It's because you haven't read the Quran

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All salvation is based on the mercy of God.
For His mercy He specially chooseth whom He pleaseth; for Allah is the Lord of bounties unbounded.

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Sure they are because God is so wise and mighty he even protects the corrupted book by saying that:

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
2 Timothy 3:15-17

look what 15 says.
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

this contradicts your statment. remember consider Context.

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In court according to Testimony and evidence, what holds more one persons testimony or many?
Which one would the Perfect God who makes perfect Choices choose to establish his word.

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Often once you read them both you get clarification of what actually occured…..

Im going to re-respond to this point you made. the Quran is more like the outline of the bible. They agree in common foundation yet the Quran leaves out alot of information, and its stories are not ex
actly like the bibles. here is one example, The bible says which son that Abraham was going to scrafise, yet the Quran does not state anything concerning which one. The Quran differs in stories, left out some stories, denys God as the father, and Jesus as the Son of God, and his very crucifiction. thats just the gist of it.
If i were muslim, i would not read the bible and use it to validate Islam. I once met a converted Islam to Christianity, she used the Quran book to convert Muslims to Christianity, and im thinking, If both religions both believe that the opposing books are corrupted why would you use it to validate your own beliefs?
Doesnt make any sense. I told her that she can do whatever she wants to, but to at least hear my advice, to stick to bible so that people dont get confused. If God is holy, than we should be careful what we use to reference him.

Quote

There is no such thing as “I am” in the Hebrew language.
Considering next the interpretation of Jeffrey Tigay, who in his comments on Exodus 3:13-15 in the Jewish Study Bible states that there is a divine name in Exodus 3:14, but he doesn’t identify what part of the verse it is.[42] He proffers “I Will Be What I Will Be” for the translation of ehyeh asher ehyeh and interprets its meaning as “My nature will become evident from My actions”, which is very similar to the first of the six interpretations in Exodus Rabbah and that espoused by Buber and Rosenzweig. He regards ehyeh asher ehyeh as the explanation of the name YHWH (as did Maimonides) and the ehyeh of 3:14b as a shortened form of ehyeh asher ehyeh (as did Halevi) and as the first person form of the verb root hayah (as did several others considered above) and to mean “I Will Be”. He understands YHWH to be the corresponding third-person form of hayah (as does Sarna amongst others) and to mean “He Will Be”. His interpretation thus draws from a wide variety of sources and from diverse approaches to the interpretation of the verse, which is perhaps appropriate for a study Bible.

let me take out my Hebrew bible, which i can read, and translate. And i get the same. I read it and it does say the same thing, the Hebrew words presented.

here is a muslim who agrees with me,
http://thetruereligion.wordpress.com/2009….will-be

—–
open what book? I Meant Daniel.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Quote

Also, refering to some angels, note the Angel of Jehovah/Lord always talked for himself as God. Usually angels bring a message but take no authority.

They do act with authority

Quote

and also note the context of the verse that John was in the very presene of Jesus Christ, but where was the angel? by verse 13, its all about Christ, and his words.

How does this mean Gabriel didn't go to Muhammad?

Quote

You metioned submitted…. So… what is more important for God your submittance or Love? Whats the differense between Faith and Submitting.

Quote

if they were than there would be a unification.

There is no unification between Jews and Christians and they believe in the same God according to Christians although Jesus is considered a false prophet and false Messiah to Jews. Why is that?

Quote

Common Foundation doesnt nessarily prove that the two are exactly alike.

Once again the Jews?

so you disagree with the comment or your trying to prove my point more?

Quote

Not realy. He is also our healer, savior, Hero, God, King, Helper, Friend, in other words God is our everything.

Exactly HE IS WHAT HE IS and WILL BE WHAT HE WILL BE

the explantion of limitation would bring light to that subject, yet it would be going off topic. lets stick our subjects, bc we are mentioning so many as it is.

Im glad that you take my post with glee
if we are paying attention to different aspects of God only
which means we have to submit more

Your whole religion is based on submittence right?
how about Reltionship?
What about Love?
do you agree the way that Jesus portayed that God is a loving Father?

Its either or, if theres another option let me know.
But if your going to validate the Quran, stick to the Quran.

Yes, I have read the entire Quran and no I wasn't required to by anything other than my conviction, I have also read the entire Bible including the 7 books that were deleted out of the protestant Bible.

Before I go on, do you see that if you reject the Catholic version of the Bible you are calling it corrupt for having 7 books too many and if you accept the Catholic version you are calling the protestant version corrupt for deleting 7 books. The Catholic version came first so which has been corrupted/altered?

Next; As far as wudu is concerned or the washing of the hands, feet and face. this is common for all people to want to be clean for prayer and yet your prayers are always judged by their intent from the heart.

You please God by emulating HIS Attributes which is to Worship HIM.

And we are not to remain imperfect but to be perfect as HE is

Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.
2 Corinthians 13:10-12

That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Timothy 3:16-17

But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
James 1:3-5

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Matthew 5:47-48

Next: In the name of ALLAH, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

This is said at the beginning of the chapters in the Quran obviously The Most Merciful and Most Gracious is full of Grace and Mercy which is the very root of redemption,deliverance and salvation.

Next: Since I see the Quran as a furtherance of The Word of God and not some “other” book it is perfect semse to me that God would indeed send down a book to preserve HIS message in tact. There is no doubt that scribes have altered content and context of some things in the Bible in-fact I have shown you that the Bible says so itself
:

How do ye say, We [are] wise, And the law of Jehovah [is] with us? Surely, lo, falsely it hath wrought, The false pen of scribes.
Jeremiah 8:7-9

The children of Israel through their prophets testify again and again about Israel's corruption as a whole and The Quran agrees and testifies:

But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few – ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind.
( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #13)

For something to be corrupt does not render it useless otherwise mankind as a whole would be rendered useless, it is often in this corruption that one can be guided out of darkness into light based upon shedding light on that very corruption.

And law came in, that the offence might abound, and where the sin did abound, the grace did overabound,
Romans 5:19-21

At the presence of Jesus the Pharisees and Saducees corruption became clear to all who thought that they were righteous

Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
Luke 11:51-53

so what does he say?

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Matthew 21:42-44

Next: Muslims use the Bible because they are supposed to just like all believers:

the Jews say: “the Christians have naught (to stand) upon; and the Christians say: “the Jews have naught (To stand) upon.” Yet they (Profess to) study the (same) book. Like unto their word is what those say who know not; but Allah will judge between them in their quarrel on the Day of Judgment.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #113)

You see The Muslim realizes that ALL the scriptures belong to ALL the believers it is only they who seperate themselves

You see Islam is the Original religion of Abraham who submitted to God and God called him friend.

but once again I will demonstrate for you how this all works:

Deuteronomy 4:2 (King James Version)

2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Jeremiah 8:8 (Revised Standard Version)

8 “How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.

What do you make of that? You see this is how God protects HIS word so that even when it is being corrupted it will testify as to who is doing the corrupting.

Now is this true about these scribes? Let's see:

How did Judas die?

After he threw the money into the temple he went away and hanged himself (Matthew 27:5)

After he bought the field with the price of his evil deed he fell headlong and burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out (Acts 1:18)

Who is a ransom for whom?

The Son of Man came…to give his life as a ransom for many (Mark 10:45).

Christ Jesus who gave himself as a ransom for all… (I Timothy 2:5-6)

The wicked is a ransom for the righteous, and the faithless for the upright (Proverbs 21:18)

Did Jesus pray to The Father to prevent the crucifixion?

Yes. (Matthew 26:39; Mark 14:36; Luke 22:42)

No. (John 12:27)

What was Jesus instruction for his disciples?

Tell my brethren to go to Galilee, and there they will see me (Matthew 2 8: 10)

Go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God (John 20:17)

Where was Jesus three days after his baptism?

After his baptism, the spirit immediately drove him out into the wilderness. And he was in the wilderness forty days … (Mark 1:12-13)

Next day after the baptism, Jesus selected two disciples. Second day: Jesus went to Galilee – two more disciples. Third day: Jesus was at a wedding feast in Cana in Galilee (see John 1:35; 1:43; 2:1-11)

Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)

Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1)

God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?

Seven (2 Samuel 24:13)

Three (I Chronicles 21:12)

Now there are many many other points you have brought up and I will address them either here or in other posts for more specific clarity.

The Quran does not speak of God as a Father as it is a book that is Clear and Clearly God is BEYOND procreating as a “father” would HE IS GOD, HE Creates what HE wants. To call God Father is simply to be affectionate there is nothing literal about it.

In regards to Crucifixion The Bible clearly state that seeing they perceive not and hearing they do not understand so if the Quran says:

That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #157)

Now once again what does the Bible repeat:

In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says,' YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND;YOU WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE;
Matthew 13:13-15

so that WHILE SEEING, THEY MAY SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE, AND WHILE HEARING, THEY MAY HEAR AND NOT UNDERSTAND, OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT RETURN AND BE FORGIVEN.”
Mark 4:11-13

saying,' GO TO THIS PEOPLE AND SAY,” YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND;AND YOU WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE;
Acts 28:25-27

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The problem with the statement is that The Uncorrupted Quran validates The Bible because of it's Corruption and the uncorrupted cleanses the Corrupted just as Holy Spirit of God purifies corrupt man.

With Love and Respect, God Bless!

Asana Bodhitharta

May 27, 2010 at 10:51 pm#192519

Participant

I didn't mean to leave the long quoted part above, sorry:)

May 28, 2010 at 12:02 am#192528

Participant

Good on you Dennison, it would be good to see that outcome.

May 28, 2010 at 10:20 am#192597

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 28 2010,09:49)

Quote

Thats great! im trying to do the same myself.

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I will make a parable for you (if it is one). There are 7 pebbles that are pure within many that are not. As we all search for the purest of pebbles, There are the wise that examine pebbles one by one, and there are the fools who open there arms and accept them all. How foolish not to examine the pebbles, How foolish is it not to know if you have the purest or not. For the fool is the adulterer of Truth, and wise seek and search for the purest, for the riches are in the heart. For the Wise will leave like kings content with their search for they know that they have the purest of pebbles, the Fool leaves as whores, who leaves without knowing to have the purest or not….

This is what catholics of done to holy scripture. Open their arms to everything. doesnt mean that some truth didnt slip in.

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we all are sinners, the heart is evil. What do men know about Good by themselves?

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You please God by emulating HIS Attributes which is to Worship HIM.
And we are not to remain imperfect but to be perfect as HE is

I agree, the bibles clearly states that we must be perfect as the father above. How does a muslim become perfect? we are wicked people. how do we transform?
(what did i say about qouting the bible, again this makes no sense to me)

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Next: In the name of ALLAH, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
This is said at the beginning of the chapters in the Quran obviously The Most Merciful and Most Gracious is full of Grace and Mercy which is the very root of redemption,deliverance and salvation.

Quote

what is this referring too? the name question? qouteing would help understand what your answering too. im kindof lost.

Quote

How do ye say, We [are] wise, And the law of Jehovah [is] with us? Surely, lo, falsely it hath wrought, The false pen of scribes.
Jeremiah 8:7-9

The children of Israel through their prophets testify again and again about Israel's corruption as a whole and The Quran agrees and testifies:

And law came in, that the offence might abound, and where the sin did abound, the grace did overabound,
Romans 5:19-21

At the presence of Jesus the Pharisees and Saducees corruption became clear to all who thought that they were righteous

Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
Luke 11:51-53

so what does he say?

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Matthew 21:42-44

Again, your trying to validate whats holy with whats corrupted. Validate the Quran with the Quran, which you cant seem to do. its a contradiction. The dependnace of the validation of the Quran which should be holy shoudl be in its own text and not in the bible. Thats why it doesnt make sense to me that your using other books to validate the Quran. Its like im trying to prove that there is light, by using darkness. or trying to prove that im human by showing you a horse. the proof that there is light, is showing you light, the proof that im human is showing you that im human. to prove that the quran is uncorrupted holy scripture, is to show me more of the quran. This just doesnt make any sense.

Quote

Next: Muslims use the Bible because they are supposed to just like all believers:

You see The Muslim realizes that ALL the scriptures belong to ALL the believers it is only they who seperate themselves

O followers of the Book! why do you dispute about Ibrahim(Abraham), when the Taurat(Torah) and the Injeel(Go
spel) were not revealed till after him; do you not then understand?
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #65)
You see Islam is the Original religion of Abraham who submitted to God and God called him friend.
but once again I will demonstrate for you how this all works:

Than your Quran has contradicted itself. Why do i say this. 600 years later it says to study corrupted text? thats just makes no sense. In school when something is corrupted its tossed in the trash. for example, we dont teach people that Sigmond Freud theory that we are all sexual beast is truth. do we? we do not, we actually ignore the very idea that its truth, we dont read from it. we know abuot it, like how a muslim knows the Christian position, but doestn mean your own truth is based on reading other material thats lies.

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You see what I mean? This goes beyond adding and removing entire books and verses it is also embedded inside of itself if in any of these examples I have given you one is the correct answer and the other is not, what does that mean?
Now there are many many other points you have brought up and I will address them either here or in other posts for more specific clarity.

I could validate the bible, but i wont, because your not validating the Quran. Actually if you disprove the bible with the text you mentioned, than all your points you made that mentioned bible fall. again if im an islam i woulndt use the bible. i would stick with the Quran. Why would you try to prove to me Holyness, with Unholyness.
it would benefit you to prove the bible right. which i will do tommorw, its 5am.

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In regards to Crucifixion The Bible clearly state that seeing they perceive not and hearing they do not understand so if the Quran says:

The bible verses you mentoined had nothing to do with Christ crucifiction. you expect me to believe what the angel gaberial gossiped about to Mohammed from 600 years later, than John who was there?
that doesnt make sense to me.

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The problem with the statement is that The Uncorrupted Quran validates The Bible because of it's Corruption and the uncorrupted cleanses the Corrupted just as Holy Spirit of God purifies corrupt man.

With Love and Respect, God Bless!

Asana Bodhitharta

The differense is according to you, the Bible continues to be Corrupted. A man changed by the holy spirit, becomes a new person. In this case the old person died, and willl never be seen again, yet the bible keeps on poping up, it just doesnt want to die. in other words. your comparison doesnt validate anything. it seems you cannot continue without keeping the bible as your partner, you use both hand and hand.

And i have noticed that there are number of questions that i had that you didnt answer why?

Remeber bro I love you,
even though i can come off aggresive,

its just the way i am at times.

i apologize if i hurt u in any way.

be blesssed my brother,

May 28, 2010 at 11:49 am#192609

Participant

Bod, I just looked back over the last few days, I was acting different I can see that, sorry.

Overloaded mind, too many forums too many opinions its crazy. Confusing.

May 28, 2010 at 2:45 pm#192613

Participant

Quote (karmarie @ May 28 2010,22:49)

Bod, I just looked back over the last few days, I was acting different I can see that, sorry.

Overloaded mind, too many forums too many opinions its crazy. Confusing.

God Bless You!

May 28, 2010 at 6:31 pm#192626

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 28 2010,21:20)

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This is what catholics of done to holy scripture. Open their arms to everything. doesnt mean that some truth didnt slip in.

The Bible was put together by the Catholic Church are you saying they had the discretion to leave in or take out whatever they chose? You said that it was The Word of God

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we all are sinners, the heart is evil. What do men know about Good by themselves?

Nay,-whoever submits His whole self to Allah and is a doer of good,- He will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #112)

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I agree, the bibles clearly states that we must be perfect as the father above. How does a muslim become perfect? we are wicked people. how do we transform?

This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #2)

They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #5)

They are those on whom (Descend) blessings from Allah, and Mercy, and they are the ones that receive guidance.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #157)

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(what did i say about qouting the bible, again this makes no sense to me)

Why would I not quote the Bible?

We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and solomon, and to David We gave the psalms.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #163)

Should I really ignore the Scriptures that were sent down before the Quran?

It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus).
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #3)

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Again, your trying to validate whats holy with whats corrupted.

The word of God is not the book it's in but the meaning of the word of God itself is Holy

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Validate the Quran with the Quran, which you cant seem to do. its a contradiction. The dependnace of the validation of the Quran which should be holy shoudl be in its own text and not in the bible. Thats why it doesnt make sense to me that your using other books to validate the Quran.

Actually I am using the knowledge in The Quran to validate the Bible

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Its like im trying to prove that there is light, by using darkness.

wouldn't you?

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or trying to prove that im human by showing you a horse. the proof that there is light, is showing you light, the proof that im human is showing you that im human. to prove that the quran is uncorrupted holy scripture, is to show me more of the quran. This just doesnt make any sense.

O ye People of the Book! believe in what We have (now) revealed, confirming what was (already) with you, before We change the face and fame of some (of you) beyond all recognition, and turn them hindwards, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers, for the decision of Allah Must be carried out.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #47)

And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.
( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #46)

To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah. it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;
( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #48)

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I could validate the bible, but i wont, because your not validating the Quran. Actually if you disprove the bible with the text you mentioned, than all your points you made that mentioned bible fall.

I'm not trying to disproves the Bible at all, I am simply showing that the Quran says that man has polluted the word of God and The Quran needs to be read to understand the what has been corrupted

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again if im an islam i woulndt use the bible. i would stick with the Quran. Why would you try to prove to me Holyness, with Unholyness.
it would benefit you to prove the bible right. which i will do tommorw, its 5am.

Thus doth Allah Make clear His Signs to you: In order that ye may understand.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #242)

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #256)

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The Bible is not the problem, Corruption of the bible is the problem

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And i have noticed that there are number of questions that i had that you didnt answer why?

Too many questions at one time make it difficult to answer them all in one post, perhaps you can be more specific in each post

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Remeber bro I love you,
even though i can come off aggresive,

ditto

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be blesssed my brother,

God Bless!

May 28, 2010 at 6:33 pm#192628

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 29 2010,05:31)

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This is what catholics of done to holy scripture. Open their arms to everything. doesnt mean that some truth didnt slip in.

The Bible was put together by the Catholic Church are you saying they had the discretion to leave in or take out whatever they chose? You said that it was The Word of God

Quote

we all are sinners, the heart is evil. What do men know about Good by themselves?

Quote

I agree, the bibles clearly states that we must be perfect as the father above. How does a muslim become perfect? we are wicked people. how do we transform?

This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #2)

They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #5)

They are those on whom (Descend) blessings from Allah, and Mercy, and they are the ones that receive guidance.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #157)

Quote

(what did i say about qouting the bible, again this makes no sense to me)

Why would I not quote the Bible?

Should I really ignore the Scriptures that were sent down before the Quran?

Quote

Again, your trying to validate whats holy with whats corrupted.

The word of God is not the book it's in but the meaning of the word of God itself is Holy

Quote

Actually I am using the knowledge in The Quran to validate the Bible

Quote

Its like im trying to prove that there is light, by using darkness.

wouldn't you?

Quote

I could validate the bible, but i wont, because your not validating the Quran. Actually if you disprove the bible with the text you mentioned, than all your points you made that mentioned bible fall.

I'm not trying to disproves the Bible at all, I am simply showing that the Quran says that man has polluted the word of God and The Quran needs to be read to understand the what has been corrupted

Quote again if im an islam i woulndt use the bible. i would stick with the Quran. Why would you try to prove to me Holyness, with Unholyness.
it would benefit you to prove the bible right. which i will do tommorw, its 5am.

Thus doth Allah Make clear His Signs to you: In order that ye may understand.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #242)

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The Bible is not the problem, Corruption of the bible is the problem

Quote

And i have noticed that there are number of questions that i had that you didnt answer why?

Too many questions at one time make it difficult to answer them all in one post, perhaps you can be more specific in each post

Quote

Remeber bro I love you,
even though i can come off aggresive,

ditto

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be blesssed my brother,

God Bless![/quote]

May 28, 2010 at 9:50 pm#192658