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Quote (JustAskin @ May 24 2010,12:10) Bod, it might be wise NOT to delve into studying or even acknowledging 'pagan' Christian sects like Mormons – they are CLEARLY WRONG and deserve no place in Holy Scriptural debate – as wrong as, perhaps, discussing the rights and wrong of Mayan human Sacrifice to their Sun God. There can be no good come from it except to show by way of the wrong, by WHAT NOT TO DO – it is very obvious that “IT IS / WAS WRONG” – and must never be Emulated – like Pentecostalism, Voodooism, uejiism, palmistry, Spiritism, the boogeyman, big foot,the Locness Monster and Trinitarianism.
AMEN!
I have already stated before my fondness for you and my belief that you are truly one of great spirit, love and support fo the things of God.
Quote (bodhitharta @ May 16 2010,12:15) Quote (karmarie @ May 16 2010,12:37) Hi Bod Quote (bodhitharta @ May 15 2010,13:29) Adultery is the act of a man having intercourse with another mans wife. “Matthew 5:27;.. “You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Quote No I don't believe it is acceptable to behead someone for what they believe in and there is no compulsion for someone to believe in what I believe in .
ok so if the Religeon which you follow the Quran which you believe says the last days wont happen untill all are forced to convert to Islam or face being beheaded, (forgive me if I have that wrong) do you not accept those parts of the Quran then? take some leave the rest?
(I could paste those verses again if you want.)
Quote I never said the commandments were not perfect I said that the commandments given to the Jews which far exceed 10 were not meant for you. God had already gave all of mankind the structure of law to Noah and they are the Noahide laws.
Jesus taught the Word of God it was not his own doctrine. Stop trying to take God's Authority and Glory away from Him as if all mankind was floundering not knowing what to do and then Jesus was born and taught them something new.The Jews had already known how they were supposed to behave. Jesus was sent to those who were the lost sheep of Israel so that they could worship God and know God because the corrupt priests and politicians in that day were dishonest about God and what God wanted of them.
Matthew 5:17-20;..“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Now behold, one came and said to Him, 'Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?' So He said to him, 'Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments'” (Matthew 19:16-17).
“He who says, 'I know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him” (1 John 2:4).
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 12:17.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:12.
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. Revelation 22:14
First of all Adultery is to have sex with another mans wife or for that matter Master Jesus is saying even lusting after another mans wife, obviously any man looking at any woman with lust is not committing adultery otherwise a man could look at his own wife and commit adultery so let's really see things clearly.Second of all, no such phrase is in the Quran as you showed it was taken from some outside source and I have shown you from the Quran that there is no compulsion in religion.
Third “commandments” is not a set term for the decalogue i.e. 10 commandments what you don't understand is that different people were issued different commands and I can prove to you that you don't accept “ALL” the commandments of God.
Do you believe in circumcision if so your husband and son should be circumcised and if not you should demand it.
If you keep the sabbath you should have not done any household chores including cooking from friday evening till saturday evening.
There are 613 commandments in the Torah Jews must keep them all and as you say Jesus didn't come to say “forget 603 of them just follow 10”
We also see that in the days of Noah the commandments were basically 7
These laws that were given to Noah were pretty much the same imposed on the gentiles because these were given to all mankind. Jesus did not come for the gentiles and so he is talking to the Jewish peoples about the commandments they were given.
When Jesus was born:
Luke 2:24 (King James Version)
24And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons
These sacrifices were offered for Jesus did you do these for your children?
B” You are correct when you say that there are 613 laws in Torah and that we should keep them all, but all of them are not for all people. Many of them were specificcaly for the Levites, and some were specifically for women, etc… So Yisra'el as a complete nation should keep them all.It would be impossible for a man to keep the command to mikvah after a woman's monthly cycle or the commands after child birth, in the same way it is impossible for me to keep any of the blood sacrificial laws based on the fact there is no temple in Jerusalem, for a good reason.
And yes, the commands were for Yisra'el and not the gentiles. BUT if a gentiles wishes to be a part of the reign of Elohim, they too must enter the covenant and join with Yisra'el and keep the covenant commands. We are all on the same playing field when it comes to being graffed into Yisra'el and the covenant, because every person on the planet has sinned and is not fit to enter the covenant based on our adultery in worshipping “other elohim.”
This fact alone is the biggest stumbling block for most people, because every religion on the planet climes to worship the One True Elohim, but if you celebrate sun-day you are not and you are committing adultry. If you do not keep Sabbath fro FR at sunset to SA at sunset, you are worshipping another elohim. If you have not vowed to keep the Torah and have it written on your heart, you are not worshipping YHWH.
Even when we read the 10 we can see that they were written only for those whom “came out of Eqypt”, which is representative of Babylon, Greece, Rome, or any other pagan mixed religion , which self proclaimed Christian's today keep when they honour the sun-day, ea_ter, and x-mas.
Religions make up their own torahs apart from YHWH, and this in itself makes them their own elohim, not the True.
The Torah of Mosheh was written for ALL mankind, not ju
st a few. YHWH is patient not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance.And don not think for a second that the Jews are any more rightoues than anyone else, they too have transgressed the Torah, and they too need to be graffed back in through Yahushua the Moshiach.
Like i said, we are all on the same playing field, equal in sin and need to repent and come to YHWH ELohim.
Quote (Laurel @ May 25 2010,02:27) B” You are correct when you say that there are 613 laws in Torah and that we should keep them all, but all of them are not for all people. Many of them were specificcaly for the Levites, and some were specifically for women, etc… So Yisra'el as a complete nation should keep them all. It would be impossible for a man to keep the command to mikvah after a woman's monthly cycle or the commands after child birth, in the same way it is impossible for me to keep any of the blood sacrificial laws based on the fact there is no temple in Jerusalem, for a good reason.
And yes, the commands were for Yisra'el and not the gentiles. BUT if a gentiles wishes to be a part of the reign of Elohim, they too must enter the covenant and join with Yisra'el and keep the covenant commands. We are all on the same playing field when it comes to being graffed into Yisra'el and the covenant, because every person on the planet has sinned and is not fit to enter the covenant based on our adultery in worshipping “other elohim.”
This fact alone is the biggest stumbling block for most people, because every religion on the planet climes to worship the One True Elohim, but if you celebrate sun-day you are not and you are committing adultry. If you do not keep Sabbath fro FR at sunset to SA at sunset, you are worshipping another elohim. If you have not vowed to keep the Torah and have it written on your heart, you are not worshipping YHWH.
Even when we read the 10 we can see that they were written only for those whom “came out of Eqypt”, which is representative of Babylon, Greece, Rome, or any other pagan mixed religion , which self proclaimed Christian's today keep when they honour the sun-day, ea_ter, and x-mas.
Religions make up their own torahs apart from YHWH, and this in itself makes them their own elohim, not the True.
The Torah of Mosheh was written for ALL mankind, not just a few. YHWH is patient not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance.
And don not think for a second that the Jews are any more rightoues than anyone else, they too have transgressed the Torah, and they too need to be graffed back in through Yahushua the Moshiach.
Like i said, we are all on the same playing field, equal in sin and need to repent and come to YHWH ELohim.
The Laws for all mankind were given to Noah. These Noahide laws are for all people but the Jews were given the excess laws to set themselves apart from the surrounding cultures and the culture they had left behind.BTW, Why would it be impossible for a man to keep the command to Mikvah after a womans monthly cycle?
It should be noted that Israel was not worshiping Elohim exclusively instead believing that there were other elohim to worship which there never was or is which is why in Islam the word “ELOHIM” is restored in “ALLAH” as a truly Sovereign term. There is only THE GOD there are no gods.
Isaiah 43:10-11 (Young's Literal Translation)
10Ye [are] My witnesses, an affirmation of Jehovah, And My servant whom I have chosen, So that ye know and give credence to Me, And understand that I [am] He, Before Me there was no God formed, And after Me there is none.
11I — I [am] Jehovah, And besides Me there is no saviour.
In other words there can be no “gods” There can only be ONE and hence THE GOD is The Only God there is i.e. ALLAH.
Since in reality “THE GOD” is an exclusive title not due to anyone else there is no need to distinguish saying Jehovah/YHVH God because there is no other God to distinguish HIM from.
HI Bod,
Can I first say “Thanks” for what you said about me – or should I say that after saying “I haven't been following your posts because I don't know …anything… about the Quran/Koran” – I only [try to] know TRUTH – in whatever form it comes.
KarMarie, is my Begotten Sister and I was looking out for her – is how I came to be posting here.
Bod, from just reading above, I see you too have a Spirit with you – and a Godly one at that – or even THE GODLY Spirit. But this is just one reading – Test the Spirit – for not that seems like light is righteous light from God.
Just jumping into the stream concerning a few things – please ignore it doesn't fit into the steam of the discussion:
Adultery is A Married Man or Woman having Sex with ANYONE who NOT His Wife/Her Husband.
By Jewish traditon – and 'Godbased common sense' – Having intercourse made you Married to that person Because you have JOINED your Flesh IN another [of the opposite Sex] – which is the definition of Marraige.
Man to Man (Woman? to? Woman?) – is an virtual unforgiveable abomination.
The Hebrew Scriptures appears to give some leneancy to Men having intercourse with unmarried women – and maybe in time of WAR this is [somehow] understandable. BUT a Married Woman is never forgiven for having sex with man not her husband becasue that meant that the vessel which incubates LIFE has been, umm…, adulterated! (There is a whole heap more but it is too much to go into)Circumsion – When Jesus revealed the 'Great Mystery' the Apostles of the early Christian era argued as to whether Gentiles and Samaritans, Proselytes, Greeks, Romans, whom ever should also be circumsiesed. The answer was: If you want to – then do it – if you don't – then don't… It is no longer a REQUIREMENT but only a personal decision.
Why were men circucised – Spiritually – to mark them out as God's chosen nation – Physically – to stop them Masterbating, “Spilling their seed in the dust”.Which raises the next point from Laurel:
Laurel, What is a man to do when his WIFE is on her monthly (I was married so I have some experience) – exercise himself …. In self restraint – don't make things hard for himself …sorry… I go too deep sometimes – It is a wonderful thing to self-restrain knowing that the pleasure is there for the taking– How about food – does one eat all the time – how wonderful it is to restrain from eating for a while and then indulge (within reason: Breakfast (a quick snack with anything going or a long drawn out indulgence while reading a newspaper or magazine), Lunch (Something more wholesome, robust and meaningful), Dinner (The real Meat in the Bread, good and solid, substantial and balanced), a little Supper (Something light before snuffing the lights out)).
It was the lack of self restraint that led to the angels getting jealous of man and coming down, abandoning their natural place, acquiring human bodies and indulging in human women (and worse abominations) creating the Nephalims (Supermen!). If woman encourages her husband, with pleasurable alternatives, then he will not seek out alternatives for himself nor try to indulge himself, knowing that his 'Prize' is not far away. He, in turn will (Ha – Should) glorify Her for having such noble spirit and they both will be blessed in their union.
Quote (JustAskin @ May 25 2010,06:10) HI Bod, Can I first say “Thanks” for what you said about me – or should I say that after saying “I haven't been following your posts because I don't know …anything… about the Quran/Koran” – I only [try to] know TRUTH – in whatever form it comes.
KarMarie, is my Begotten Sister and I was looking out for her – is how I came to be posting here.
Bod, from just reading above, I see you too have a Spirit with you – and a Godly one at that – or even THE GODLY Spirit. But this is just one reading – Test the Spirit – for not that seems like light is righteous light from God.
Just jumping into the stream concerning a few things – please ignore it doesn't fit into the steam of the discussion:
Adultery is A Married Man or Woman having Sex with ANYONE who NOT His Wife/Her Husband.
By Jewish traditon – and 'Godbased common sense' – Having intercourse made you Married to that person Because you have JOINED your Flesh IN another [of the opposite Sex] – which is the definition of Marraige.
Man to Man (Woman? to? Woman?) – is an virtual unforgiveable abomination.
The Hebrew Scriptures appears to give some leneancy to Men having intercourse with unmarried women – and maybe in time of WAR this is [somehow] understandable. BUT a Married Woman is never forgiven for having sex with man not her husband becasue that meant that the vessel which incubates LIFE has been, umm…, adulterated! (There is a whole heap more but it is too much to go into)Circumsion – When Jesus revealed the 'Great Mystery' the Apostles of the early Christian era argued as to whether Gentiles and Samaritans, Proselytes, Greeks, Romans, whom ever should also be circumsiesed. The answer was: If you want to – then do it – if you don't – then don't… It is no longer a REQUIREMENT but only a personal decision.
Why were men circucised – Spiritually – to mark them out as God's chosen nation – Physically – to stop them Masterbating, “Spilling their seed in the dust”.Which raises the next point from Laurel:
Laurel, What is a man to do when his WIFE is on her monthly (I was married so I have some experience) – exercise himself …. In self restraint – don't make things hard for himself …sorry… I go too deep sometimes – It is a wonderful thing to selfrestrain knowing that the pleasure is there for the taking – How about food – does one eat all the time – how wonderful it is to restrain from eating for a while and then indulge (within reason: Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner, a little Supper).
It was the lack of self restraint that led to the angels getting jealous of man and coming down, abandoning their natural place, acquiring human bodies and indulging in human women (and worse abominations) creating the Nephalims (Supermen!). If woman encourages her husband, with pleasurable alternatives, then he will not seek out alternatives for himself nor try to indulge himself, knowing that his 'Prize' is not far away. He, in turn will (Ha – Should) glorify Her for having such noble spirit and they both will be blessed in their union.
Hi JA,:)Circumcision was a physical sign that had nothing to do with masturbation:
Also the verse that talks about spilling seed is here:
And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
Genesis 38:8-10Hence this was even before the LAW which clearly has forbid having sex with your brothers wife.
You will notice that many things occur earlier in the Bible that the Laws of Moses later forbid.
The Laws of Moses are like a collection of notifications of things that displeased the Lord.
Jacob married two sisters then the Law forbids such arrangements
Lots daughters have intercourse with him to preserve his seed then the Law forbids such arrangements
David commits adultery before the Law of Moses then the Law forbids such arrangements
so we see many activities that are then made part of the Laws of Moses to assure a stabilized civilization.
Now back to circumcision:
And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
Genesis 17:10-12This is a physical sign that is everlasting it has no sexual connotation to it at all.
He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
Genesis 17:12-14This is a very clear command and is not a metaphor at all if it was Jesus would not have been circumcised but even he was.
and in regards to Masturbation:
And Abraham was ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.
Genesis 17:23-25I would imagine he didn't have a Masturbation problem.
Bod,
Thank you for your post – I knew someone would teach me something one day – and today is that day!
Jealous.
You both think God can be jealous? I mean so God looks down on us bowing down to a box or a stone or whatever and gets…jealous? God creates us to love others and what? gets jealous? Does that make sense?
Gods not man.
Zealous..the intense feeling of love towards someone.
Hebrew agrees..
Quote (bodhitharta @ May 25 2010,02:47) Quote (Laurel @ May 25 2010,02:27) B” You are correct when you say that there are 613 laws in Torah and that we should keep them all, but all of them are not for all people. Many of them were specificcaly for the Levites, and some were specifically for women, etc… So Yisra'el as a complete nation should keep them all. It would be impossible for a man to keep the command to mikvah after a woman's monthly cycle or the commands after child birth, in the same way it is impossible for me to keep any of the blood sacrificial laws based on the fact there is no temple in Jerusalem, for a good reason.
And yes, the commands were for Yisra'el and not the gentiles. BUT if a gentiles wishes to be a part of the reign of Elohim, they too must enter the covenant and join with Yisra'el and keep the covenant commands. We are all on the same playing field when it comes to being graffed into Yisra'el and the covenant, because every person on the planet has sinned and is not fit to enter the covenant based on our adultery in worshipping “other elohim.”
This fact alone is the biggest stumbling block for most people, because every religion on the planet climes to worship the One True Elohim, but if you celebrate sun-day you are not and you are committing adultry. If you do not keep Sabbath fro FR at sunset to SA at sunset, you are worshipping another elohim. If you have not vowed to keep the Torah and have it written on your heart, you are not worshipping YHWH.
Even when we read the 10 we can see that they were written only for those whom “came out of Eqypt”, which is representative of Babylon, Greece, Rome, or any other pagan mixed religion , which self proclaimed Christian's today keep when they honour the sun-day, ea_ter, and x-mas.
Religions make up their own torahs apart from YHWH, and this in itself makes them their own elohim, not the True.
The Torah of Mosheh was written for ALL mankind, not just a few. YHWH is patient not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance.
And don not think for a second that the Jews are any more rightoues than anyone else, they too have transgressed the Torah, and they too need to be graffed back in through Yahushua the Moshiach.
Like i said, we are all on the same playing field, equal in sin and need to repent and come to YHWH ELohim.
The Laws for all mankind were given to Noah. These Noahide laws are for all people but the Jews were given the excess laws to set themselves apart from the surrounding cultures and the culture they had left behind.BTW, Why would it be impossible for a man to keep the command to Mikvah after a womans monthly cycle?
It should be noted that Israel was not worshiping Elohim exclusively instead believing that there were other elohim to worship which there never was or is which is why in Islam the word “ELOHIM” is restored in “ALLAH” as a truly Sovereign term. There is only THE GOD there are no gods.
Isaiah 43:10-11 (Young's Literal Translation)
10Ye [are] My witnesses, an affirmation of Jehovah, And My servant whom I have chosen, So that ye know and give credence to Me, And understand that I [am] He, Before Me there was no God formed, And after Me there is none.
11I — I [am] Jehovah, And besides Me there is no saviour.
In other words there can be no “gods” There can only be ONE and hence THE GOD is The Only God there is i.e. ALLAH.
Since in reality “THE GOD” is an exclusive title not due to anyone else there is no need to distinguish saying Jehovah/YHVH God because there is no other God to distinguish HIM from.
According to the Torah written by Mosheh there is one Torah for all people, even the stranger within your gates. Yisra'el was taught to treat all people as if they were a part of Yisra'el. Even in the Brit Chodesh, Kepha has a vision of unclean beasts coming down from heaven on a tallit. YHWH tells Kepha “Do not call any man unclean.”Therefore Kepha's vision agrees with YHWH's command in Torah that even the stranger within your gates is to rest on Shabbat, when we rest. We cannot ask our hired servant, or even command our animals to work on Shabbat. Everyone benefits.
I understand what you are intending when you refer to Elohim as Alah, because i agree that there is only echad, one, EL. and His Name is echad, one, YHWH.
Elohim is a Hebrew word that does NOT mean more than one El, when mentioned with His Name, but rather the word refers to an ALL INCLUSIVE, all powerful, EL. The plurality of the word means all knowing etc.
As for a man keeping the command to mikva after his monthy cycle??? Wouldn't that be in vain, meaningless, nothingness? YES. A man does not have a monthly cycle, and he is commanded not to have intercourse with a woman who IS having her monthly cycle, so for a man to mikva for that reason would be ADDING TO TORAH, which is forbidden by Torah.
But as you know we all have a choice in this world to follow YAH's instructions or do our own thing, which is why i chose to be set-apart to YHWH, doing His thing, and not mine, which by the way is a lot easier than many would think, and brings shalom to my being.
You are correct when you say that Yisra'el whored after other elohim/mighty ones. But remember there has always been a remnant, and we have the opportunity to return to YHWH through the covenent, renewed in the blood of the Messiah Yahushua, who took the curse for the adulterous Yisra'el so that in immersion we too could die to SELF and the seed of the RUACH QODESH could be planted in us once again, and grow into the fulness that YHWH wanted for us from the beginning, so that we could be echad with Him.
YHWH can shape us an mould us into a vessel fit for His RUACH to dwell, but first we must repent and RETURN to Him and vow to the covenent which has been renewed through Yahushua Messiah, His privision for us sinners.
Quote (karmarie @ May 25 2010,22:20) Jealous. You both think God can be jealous? I mean so God looks down on us bowing down to a box or a stone or whatever and gets…jealous? God creates us to love others and what? gets jealous? Does that make sense?
Gods not man.
Zealous..the intense feeling of love towards someone.
Hebrew agrees..
Exo 20:2 “I am יהוה your Elohim, who brought you out of the land of Mitsrayim, out of the house of slavery.
Exo 20:3 “You have no other mighty ones against My face.
Exo 20:4 “You do not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of that which is in the heavens above, or which is in the earth beneath, or which is in the waters under the earth,
Exo 20:5 you do not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, יהוה your Elohim am a jealous Ěl, visiting the crookedness of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
Exo 20:6 but showing kindness to thousands, to those who love Me and guard My commands.The Torah disagrees with you Karmarie
A primitive root; to be (causatively make) zealous, that is, (in a bad sense) jealous or envious: – (be) envy (-ious), be (move to, provoke to) jealous (-y), X very, (be) zeal (-ous).
Put it in your heart Kar, how would you feel if you husband went after other women?
A vow is a vow, and He holds us to our vows, as you should hold your husband to his, and he should hold you to yours, after all how can we put our belief in someone we do not trust? Forgiveness comes AFTER repentance, but salvation is always at the door, waiting patiently.
Quote (karmarie @ May 25 2010,22:20) Jealous. You both think God can be jealous? I mean so God looks down on us bowing down to a box or a stone or whatever and gets…jealous? God creates us to love others and what? gets jealous? Does that make sense?
Gods not man.
Zealous..the intense feeling of love towards someone.
Hebrew agrees..
Karmarie,You are perhaps confusing the meaning of Jealousy with the meaning of envy.
To be Jealous is not a bad emotion when it is based on a good premise.
early 13c., from O.Fr. gelos (12c., Fr. jaloux), from L.L. zelosus, from zelus “zeal,” from Gk. zelos, sometimes “jealousy,” but more often in a good sense (“emulation, rivalry, zeal”). See zeal. Among the ways to express this in other tongues are Swed. svartsjuka, lit. “black-sick,” from phrase bara svarta strumpor “wear black stockings,” also “be jealous.” Dan. skinsyg “jealous,” lit. “skin-sick,” is from skind “hide, skin” said to be explained by Swed. dialectal expression fa skinn “receive a refusal in courtship.”
Most of the words for 'envy' … had from the outset a hostile force, based on 'look at' (with malice), 'not love,' etc. Conversely, most of those which became distinctive terms for 'jealousy' were originally used also in a good sense, 'zeal, emulation.' [Buck, pp.1138-9]jalousie
1766, from Fr., lit. “jealousy” (see jealous), from notion of looking through blinds without being seenhttp://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=jalousie
Anyway my point was the Bible says that is HIS Name so why don't you call HIM “Zealous/Jealous? and only refer to HIM as YHVH/Jehovah?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 29 2010,11:13) Why is it so important for Christians to deny Muhammad Prophethood? Is there any scripture in the Bible that says Christ is the Final Prophet?
Hey Bod,
I had a feeling you believed in Islam,
With much love i would like to answer your question.Because from my observations it seems your frustrated with people who dont believe, to me, i see you, as most feel when they feel they have the abosulte Truth, yet others dont see it that way, which brings friction, and a desperate attempt to save everyone, even though you feel that they are blind.
With Much love, I dont know that much about you, but from the lil i do know, thats what seems to be going on.
I think the (Divided) Christians do not take Muhammad as a prophet for a number of reasons.
I would like to know if my information is correct by the way,
Wasnt Muhammed born 100-500 years after Christ?
Wouldnt that also mean that the Quaran was written 500 years later as well?
God promises to perserve his word, God can never lie.
When did an angel at any other time inspire scripture?
Yet from what i read of the Quran, Allah psychological character does not fit with the God of the bible.
Can one limit God to one name?
I believe Christ to be more than just a prophet.
So there for its irrevelant to say that he is the Final Prophet,
in the bible it mentions the five ministries, which one of them is being a prophet.Lets define what Prophet is by the way.
Second: another observation when i believed in nothing, is that the koran stories are similiar to the bible, yet are not the same. They hold some foundation but add others.I didnt really answer your question directly, but if my information is correct, i would think that these questions would tell us why the two disagre..
With much respect and Love,
p.s. Final Question, Do you believe God to be the abosulte Truth. That there is a perfect God? if so, if God is the only one who can understand abosulte truth and knowledge, than that would mean that that the aboslute truth would kill us, to know everything would kills us, its to much information, so is it possible to be wrong?
Is it possible for us as humans to have error or to be wrong?Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 26 2010,06:16) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 29 2010,11:13) Why is it so important for Christians to deny Muhammad Prophethood? Is there any scripture in the Bible that says Christ is the Final Prophet?
Hey Bod,
I had a feeling you believed in Islam,
With much love i would like to answer your question.Because from my observations it seems your frustrated with people who dont believe, to me, i see you, as most feel when they feel they have the abosulte Truth, yet others dont see it that way, which brings friction, and a desperate attempt to save everyone, even though you feel that they are blind.
With Much love, I dont know that much about you, but from the lil i do know, thats what seems to be going on.
I think the (Divided) Christians do not take Muhammad as a prophet for a number of reasons.
I would like to know if my information is correct by the way,
Wasnt Muhammed born 100-500 years after Christ?
Wouldnt that also mean that the Quaran was written 500 years later as well?
God promises to perserve his word, God can never lie.
When did an angel at any other time inspire scripture?
Yet from what i read of the Quran, Allah psychological character does not fit with the God of the bible.
Can one limit God to one name?
I believe Christ to be more than just a prophet.
So there for its irrevelant to say that he is the Final Prophet,
in the bible it mentions the five ministries, which one of them is being a prophet.Lets define what Prophet is by the way.
Second: another observation when i believed in nothing, is that the koran stories are similiar to the bible, yet are not the same. They hold some foundation but add others.I didnt really answer your question directly, but if my information is correct, i would think that these questions would tell us why the two disagre..
With much respect and Love,
p.s. Final Question, Do you believe God to be the abosulte Truth. That there is a perfect God? if so, if God is the only one who can understand abosulte truth and knowledge, than that would mean that that the aboslute truth would kill us, to know everything would kills us, its to much information, so is it possible to be wrong?
Is it possible for us as humans to have error or to be wrong?
SimplyForgiven,Thank you so much for addressing this post with reason, love and respect.
Quote it seems your frustrated with people who dont believe, to me, i see you, as most feel when they feel they have the abosulte Truth, yet others dont see it that way, which brings friction, and a desperate attempt to save everyone, even though you feel that they are blind. Only God knows the absolute truth because God is THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH so we can only work with the information and Holy Spirit HE has given us to guide us.
I don't feel that anyone is blind it is the scriptures themselves that point this out.
And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
Luke 8:9-11That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
Mark 4:11-13So we clearly see that it is supported by the scriptures.
Quote I think the (Divided) Christians do not take Muhammad as a prophet for a number of reasons.
I would like to know if my information is correct by the way,
Wasnt Muhammed born 100-500 years after Christ?
Wouldnt that also mean that the Quaran was written 500 years later as well?Islam holds that the Qur’an was repeatedly revealed from Allah to Muhammad orally through the angel Jibrīl (Gabriel) over a period of approximately twenty-three years, beginning in 610 CE, when he was forty, and concluding in 632 CE, the year of his death.[2][6][7] Followers of Islam further believe that the Qur’an was memorized, recited and written down by Muhammad's companions after every revelation dictated by Muhammad. Most of Muhammad's companions, tens of thousands, learned the Qur’an by heart, repeatedly recited in front of Muhammad for his approval or the approval of other Sahabas Muhammad approved and also compiled it in written form while he was alive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qur'an
Quote God promises to perserve his word, God can never lie. The Quran is a preservation and restoration of God's word. The Bible demonstrates that scribes altered the word of God:
How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.
Jeremiah 8:7-9literal translation:
8How do ye say, We [are] wise, And the law of Jehovah [is] with us? Surely, lo, falsely it hath wrought, The false pen of scribes.
Quote When did an angel at any other time inspire scripture? Gabriel was the Angel who spoke to Mary and Taught Daniel the prophecies
1.Daniel 8:16
And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.Daniel 8:15-17 (in Context) Daniel 8 (Whole Chapter)
2.Daniel 9:21
Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
Daniel 9:20-22 (in Context) Daniel 9 (Whole Chapter)3.Luke 1:19
And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.
Luke 1:18-20 (in Context) Luke 1 (Whole Chapter)4.Luke 1:26
And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
Luke 1:25-27 (in Context) Luke 1 (Whole Chapter)This was the same Angel Gabriel who was sent to Muhammad. not to mention there was also an angel who delivered the book of revelation to John
Revelation 1
1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:2Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
also:
This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush.
Acts 7:34-36If there was an angel in the bush that spoke to Moses then it was that Angel who said “I will be what I will be”
Quote Yet from what i read of the Quran, Allah psychological character does not fit with the God of the bible. In what way? God hates sin and loves those who repent that is one consistent thought
Quote Can one limit God to one name? God is only named in regards to attributes i.e. The Just , The Merciful, The Compassionate, Jealous…etc
We have names that are not the same as the meaning of God having a Name as no one named God, HE IS WHAT HE IS.
Quote I believe Christ to be more than just a prophet.
So there for its irrevelant to say that he is the Final Prophet,He is more than a Prophet and he was a Sign from God and a Word from HIM.
Quote in the bible it mentions the five ministries, which one of them is being a prophet. Acts 11:26-28 (King James Version)
26And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
27And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.
28And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.
And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.
Acts 15:31-33And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
1 Corinthians 12:27-29Quote Lets define what Prophet is by the way. In religion, a prophet is an individual who has been contacted by, or has encountered, the supernatural or the divine, and serves as an intermediary with humanity, delivering this newfound knowledge from the supernatural entity to other humans.[1][2] The message that the prophet conveys is called a prophecy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet
Most people believe that a prophet it someone who tells the future but if you read the scriptures you will find that most prophets are warning the people of what they should be doing to please GOD right at that time.
Quote Second: another observation when i believed in nothing, is that the koran stories are similiar to the bible, yet are not the same. They hold some foundation but add others. Often once you read them both you get clarification of what actually occured. For instance you find out that Mary's Mother dedicated her to THE LORD before she was born. You find out that Mary didn't give birth in a manger although she was in a manger with Jesus.
Quote p.s. Final Question, Do you believe God to be the abosulte Truth. That there is a perfect God? if so, if God is the only one who can understand abosulte truth and knowledge, than that would mean that that the aboslute truth would kill us, to know everything would kills us, its to much information, so is it possible to be wrong?
Is it possible for us as humans to have error or to be wrong?Our Goal is to not be right or wrong for God Alone has all knowledge but to Submit to God is to receive guidance from HIM. (God Willing we will do so by being Pure at Heart)
Quote (JustAskin @ May 26 2010,07:01) Bod,
Looking back – Yes, it was all my own work – with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
It was really cohesive and intelligent God Bless!
Hi.
Yeah I agree with you that Jealous is a part of it but not the main thing so using the word jealous alone…with Zealous though jealousy is a part of it its not the main nature of the word.
I think God as so powerfull he wouldnt be jealous exactly like we are because he has no real competition so is not like a man, I mean we get jealous because the other competition might be better than us! But none is greater than God so theres no competition so it would be different, Zealous intense love protection zeal jealousy yes if us wondering off looking for other than Him as a god leads to us becoming distant sinners lost numbered amongst them what becomes of them? Ashes. If God loves us he wants us to love him with all our heart if our heart wanders off it cant be forced can it? God doesnt want to force his love on us. But God also cant dwell with sin so desires us to become sinless so we can dwell with him. By looking at other gods we are taking our heart away from him going down a wrong path.
Quote (bodhitharta @ May 26 2010,04:02) The Quran is a preservation and restoration of God's word. The Bible demonstrates that scribes altered the word of God: So the Prophets, Disciples, Jesus all need to be ignored. (According to Islam)
Quote This was the same Angel Gabriel who was sent to Muhammad.(Gabriel) Galatians 1:6
“I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.”
…In Islam God has no Son.
This is the Antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.
Also in Islam Jesus wasnt crucified.
I know weve been over that many times bod but I just had to watch anyone else who might not know this.
Quote (karmarie @ May 26 2010,09:57) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 26 2010,04:02) The Quran is a preservation and restoration of God's word. The Bible demonstrates that scribes altered the word of God: So the Prophets, Disciples, Jesus all need to be ignored. (According to Islam)
Quote This was the same Angel Gabriel who was sent to Muhammad.(Gabriel) Galatians 1:6
“I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.”
…In Islam God has no Son.
This is the Antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.
Also in Islam Jesus wasnt crucified.
You quote Galatians 1:6 but you won't say what it was referring to at that time, was it a verse about Islam 700 years before Islam or was it about something else happening inside of Christianity itself? Be honest
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