Why don&#39;t christians believe tha god sent muhammad

Participant

Quote (Laurel @ May 08 2010,04:01)

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 07 2010,09:53)

Quote (Laurel @ May 07 2010,07:14)

B”
Surah 2 the cow)
158 Behold,Safa and Marwa (memorials to two adulterers) are among the symbols of allah. So if those who visit the house(where the memorials to them once stood) in the season or at other times, should compass them round (embrase them, honor them, be like them), it is no sin to them (it is ok to be an adulterer). And if anyone obeyth his own impulse (impulse meaning compulsion) to good,- be sure that allah is he who recogniseth and knoweth. (i added the parenethetical comments)

Now i repaired the words i wrote and was just wondering why you did not respond to the fact that your book contradicts itself reguarding the word compulsion. I also wonder how you can spend your whole life yearning to touch two mountains and a black rock. Dosen't this seem like idol worship to you?

It is like all those Catholics who go in droves to kiss the feet of the statue Jupiter in the vatican st.peter's cathedral. Why kiss his feet? The toes on the statue have been kissed by so many soft lips that the toes are worn off! And the pope changed the name of the statur from jupiter to peter!

Come out of Babylon and live!

I don't know where you are getting your information from but it is really incorrect(I have told you several times that these are two mountains not people or statues), how could you think that adultery is accepted in Islam?

Nor come nigh to adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils).
( سورة الإسراء , Al-Isra, Chapter #17, Verse #32)

Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.
( سورة النور , An-Noor, Chapter #24, Verse #3)

I know you don't mean to be dishonest but surely you must understand that if you say a slanderous thing and are corrected and yet continue to say it then you are placing yourself in the wrong.

It is perfectly honest to say that you don't believe in what someone else believes in but it is entirely wrong to misrepresent what someone believes in especially when they inform you that you are incorrect in your information several times and it is not in the persons scriptures anything remotely close to the information you provided.

B'
Toda rabba (thank you vey much) for being polite and patient with me while i tru to explain what i am saying about the two mountain, which i know are mountains.

The matter is that there were at one time in the past, two statues, one male and one female. These statues were placed, one on each mountain. The black cube was another place.

The early believers in the Muslim faith, befor Islam, (is what i learned) would “run” between these two statues on the two mountains, then go to the black cube, touching each as they passed by. It was a man made tradition long before Mohammed. Mohammed also took part in this man made tradition, and he did not do away with it when he taught new things to the Muslim people.

Much like the man Constantine is a hero to the Catholic faith. Constantine took true words from the Torah and the Messiah Yahushua and “mingled” them with his old pagan traditions. This is how x-mas bacame the new Sukkot of the Hebrews. For COnsantine, like Jeroboam of old, thought to do things a better way. Constantine thought to change tha Appointed Times of YHWH so as to be separated fro the Jews. Constantine taught that the Jewish TORAH which is YHWH's TORAH was done away with, and that we have a “new” covenant, that the old was no more.

Now you can look into Scripture and see where this 'new” covenant was promised, and you can look into the Messianic writings (new covenant, so called) and you could be lead astray by Constantine quite easily if you are not already grounded on the TORAH of love.

But i have been given a gift, because i am a believer and a doer of TORAH and i love YHWH Elohim, and Yahushua His Son, His Annointed One.

I found this in the TeNaK and it confirmed what the SPirit had placed in my heart, and these things which i am proclaiming to you this day. See…

1Ki 14:14 “And יהוה shall raise up for Himself a sovereign over Yisraʼĕl who cuts off the house of Yaroḇʽam, this day, and even now!
1Ki 14:15 “And יהוה shall smite Yisraʼĕl, as a reed is shaken in the water, and shall pluck Yisraʼĕl from this good soil which He gave to their fathers, and shall scatter them beyond the River, because they made their Ashĕrim, provoking יהוה,
1Ki 14:16 and He shall give Yisraʼĕl up, because of the sins of Yaroḇʽam, who sinned and who made Yisraʼĕl sin.”

What did Jeroboam do that was so powerful and so unrighteous that it still continues to this very day, through Constantine?

Well we just saw that Jeroboam set up Asherah, which are statues of a “female diety.” So is the Catholic religion who sets up those exact same statues to their “mother of g-d.”

AND even worse…

1Ki 12:27 “If these people go up to do slaughterings in the House of יהוה at Yerushalayim, then the heart of this people shall turn back to their master, Reḥaḇʽam sovereign of Yehuḏah, and they shall slay me and go back to Reḥaḇʽam sovereign of Yehuḏah.”
1Ki 12:28 So the sovereign took counsel and made two calves of gold, and said to the people, “It is too much for you to go up to Yerushalayim. See, your mighty ones, O Yisraʼĕl, which brought you up from the land of Mitsrayim!”
1Ki 12:29 And he set up one in Bĕyth Ěl, and the other he put in Dan.
1Ki 12:30 And this matter became a sin, for the people went before the one as far as Dan.
1Ki 12:31 And he made the house of high places, and made priests from all sorts of people, who were not of the sons of Lĕwi.
1Ki 12:32 And Yaroḇʽam performed a festival on the fifteenth day of the eighth month, like the festival that was in Yehuḏah, and he offered on the altar. So he did at Bĕyth Ěl, slaughtering to the calves that he had made. And at Bĕyth Ěl he appointed the priests of the high places which he had made.
1Ki 12:33 And he made offerings on the altar which he had made at Bĕyth Ěl on the fifteenth day of the eighth month, in the month which he had devised in his own heart. And he performed a festival for the children of Yisraʼĕl, and offered on the altar and burned incense.

So Jeroboam changed the Appointed Times at the Appointed Place of YHWH ELohim, and thus we have X-mas and Ea_ter to this day!

And by the way ea_ter IS Ashter, Asherim!

And look… It was still prevelant in Yahuhsua the Messiah's day, and it had spread to all corners of the earth.

Act 19:24 For a certain man named Demetrios, a silversmith, who made silver shrines of Artemis, provided no little
business to the craftsmen,
Act 19:25 who, having called them together, with the workers of similar trade, said, “Men, you know that our wealth is from this business.
Act 19:26 “And you see and hear that not only at Ephesos, but throughout almost all Asia, this Shaʼul has persuaded and turned away a large number, saying that they are not mighty ones which are made with hands.
Act 19:27 “And not only is this trade of ours in danger of coming to rejection, but also that the temple of the great female mighty one Artemis whom all Asia and the world worship, shall be regarded as worthless and her greatness diminished.”
Act 19:28 And having heard this, they were filled with rage and cried out, saying, “Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!”

Now if you know anything about “who” the Ephesians were…
Let me tell you.

Gen 41:50 And to Yosĕph were born two sons before the years of scarcity of food came, whom Asenath, the daughter of Poti-Pherah priest of On, bore to him.
Gen 41:51 And Yosĕph called the name of the first-born Menashsheh, “For Elohim has made me forget all my toil and all my fatherʼs house.”
Gen 41:52 And the name of the second he called Ephrayim, “For Elohim has caused me to bear fruit in the land of my affliction.”
Gen 41:53 And the seven years of plenty which were in the land of Mitsrayim came to an end,

Gen 46:20 And to Yosĕph in the land of Mitsrayim were born Menashsheh and Ephrayim, whom Asenath, the daughter of Poti-Pherah priest of On, bore to him.
(born in Eqypt)

What is the big deal of Ephrayim?

Gen 48:3 And Yaʽaqoḇ said to Yosĕph, “Ěl Shaddai appeared to me at Luz in the land of Kenaʽan and blessed me,
Gen 48:4 and said to me, ‘See, I am making you bear fruit and shall increase you and make of you an assembly of peoples, and give this land to your seed after you as an everlasting possession.ʼ
Gen 48:5 “And now, your two sons, Ephrayim and Menashsheh, who were born to you in the land of Mitsrayim before I came to you in Mitsrayim, are mine – as Reʼuḇĕn and Shimʽon, they are mine.

Gen 48:14 And Yisraʼĕl stretched out his right hand and laid it on Ephrayimʼs head, who was the younger, and his left hand on Menashshehʼs head, consciously directing his hands, for Menashsheh was the first-born.
Gen 48:15 And he blessed Yosĕph, and said, “The Elohim before whom my fathers Aḇraham and Yitsḥaq walked, the Elohim who has fed me all my life long to this day,
Gen 48:16 the Messenger who has redeemed me from all evil – bless the youths! And let my name be called upon them, and the name of my fathers Aḇraham and Yitsḥaq. And let them increase to a multitude in the midst of the earth.”

Gen 48:20 And he blessed them on that day, saying, “In you Yisraʼĕl shall bless, saying, ‘Elohim make you as Ephrayim and as Menashsheh!ʼ ” Thus he put Ephrayim before Menashsheh.

What did Ephrayim inherit?

Gen 17:5 “And no longer is your name called Aḇram, but your name shall be Aḇraham, because I shall make you a father of many nations.
Gen 17:6 “And I shall make you bear fruit exceedingly, and make nations of you, and sovereigns shall come from you.
Gen 17:7 “And I shall establish My covenant between Me and you and your seed after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be Elohim to you and your seed after you.

(to Ephrayim was given the promise of the covenant!)

Why did YHWH choose Ephrayim?
Deu 9:3 “And you shall know today that יהוה your Elohim is He who is passing over before you as a consuming fire – He does destroy them and subdue them before you. So you shall dispossess them and destroy them quickly, as יהוה has said to you.
Deu 9:4 “Do not think in your heart, after יהוה your Elohim has driven them out before you, saying, ‘Because of my righteousness יהוה has brought me in to possess this land.ʼ But it is because of the wrong of these nations that יהוה is driving them out from before you.
Deu 9:5 “It is not because of your righteousness or the uprightness of your heart that you go in to possess their land, but because of the wrong of these nations that יהוה your Elohim drives them out from before you, in order to establish the word which יהוה swore to your fathers, to Aḇraham, to Yitsḥaq, and to Yaʽaqoḇ.
Deu 9:6 “And you shall know that יהוה your Elohim is not giving you this good land to possess because of your righteousness, for you are a stiff-necked people.
Deu 9:7 “Remember, do not forget how you provoked to wrath יהוה your Elohim in the wilderness. From the day that you came out of the land of Mitsrayim until you came to this place, you have been rebellious against יהוה.
(He does it to keep His Word, and establish His promises.)

So where is Ephrayim today?
Jer 49:36 ‘And I shall bring upon Ěylam the four winds from the four quarters of the heavens, and scatter them toward all those winds. And there shall be no nation where the outcasts of Ěylam do not go.
Jer 49:37 ‘And I shall break Ěylam before their enemies and before those who seek their life. And I shall bring evil upon them, my burning displeasure,ʼ declares יהוה. ‘And I shall send the sword after them until I have consumed them.
Jer 49:38 ‘And I shall set My throne in Ěylam, and destroy from there the sovereign and the heads,ʼ declares יהוה.
Jer 49:39 ‘And it shall be in the latter days that I turn back the captivity of Ěylam,ʼ declares יהוה.”

Look at the name Elam.
H5867
עולם עילםo
‛êylâm ‛ôlâm
ay-lawm', o-lawm'
Probably from H5956; hidden, that is, distant; Elam, a son of Shem, and his descendants, with their country; also of six

Shem is a former father of Abraham, Yahushua Messiah, and Ephrayim. (men of Name) Shem means “name”

Ephrayim is “hidden” among the “gentiles.” or the “nations” which YHWH promised to Abraham! The children of the promise!

Who can be gafted into the covenant promise?
Joh 10:35 “If He called them elohim, to whom the word of Elohim came – and it is impossible for the Scripture to be broken –
Joh 10:36 do you say of Him whom the Father set apart and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,ʼ because I said, ‘I am the Son of Elohimʼ?
Joh 10:37 “If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;
Joh 10:38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.”

Joh 12:34 The crowd answered Him, “We have heard out of the Torah that the Messiah remains forever. And how do You say, ‘The Son of Aḏam has to be lifted upʼ? Who is this Son of Aḏam?”
Joh 12:35 יהושע, therefore, said to them, “Yet a little while the light is with you. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you. And he who walks in darkness does not know where he is going.
Joh 12:36 “While you have the light, believe in the light, so that you become sons of light.” These words יהושע spoke, and went off and was hidden from them.

Joh 4:21 יהושע said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you shall neither on this mountain, nor in Yerushalayim, worship the Father.
Joh 4:22 “You worship what you do not know. We worship what we know, because the deliveranc
e is of the Yehuḏim.1 Footnote: 1Ps. 147:19, Isa. 2:3, Isa. 14:1, Isa. 56:6-8, Ezek. 47:22-23, Zech. 2:10-11, Zech. 8:23, Rom. 2:20, Rom. 3:2, Rom. 9:4, Rev. 21:12 & 24.
Joh 4:23 “But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father also does seek such to worship Him.
Joh 4:24 “Elohim is Spirit, and those who worship Him need to worship in spirit and truth.”

Rom 2:11 For there is no partiality with Elohim.
Rom 2:12 For as many as sinned without Torah shall also perish without Torah, and as many as sinned in the Torah shall be judged by the Torah.
Rom 2:13 For not the hearers of the Torah are righteous in the sight of Elohim, but the doers of the “principles” (of the Torah) shall be declared right.

Joh 11:51 But he did not say this from himself, but being high priest that year he prophesied that יהושע was about to die for the nation,
Joh 11:52 and not for the nation only, but to gather together into one the children of Elohim who were scattered abroad.
Joh 11:53 So from that day on they plotted to kill Him.
Joh 11:54 יהושע therefore no longer went openly among the Yehuḏim, but went from there into the country near the wilderness, to a city called Ephrayim, and remained there with His taught ones.

Rom 11:16 Now if the first-fruit is set-apart, the lump is also. And if the root is set-apart, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, have been grafted in among them, and came to share the root and fatness of the olive tree,
Rom 11:18 do not boast against the branches. And if you boast, remember: you do not bear the root, but the root bears you!
Rom 11:19 You shall say then, “The branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.”
Rom 11:20 Good! By unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by belief. Do not be arrogant, but fear.
Rom 11:21 For if Elohim did not spare the natural branches, He might not spare you either.
Rom 11:22 See then the kindness and sharpness of Elohim: on those who fell sharpness, but toward you kindness, if you continue in His kindness, otherwise you also shall be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, shall be grafted in, for Elohim is able to graft them in again.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Elohim and possessing the witness of יהושע Messiah.

Rev 14:12 Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones,1 here are those guarding the commands of Elohim and the belief of יהושע.

Rev 15:2 And I saw like a sea of glass mixed with fire, and those overcoming the beast and his image and his mark and the number of his name, standing on the sea of glass, holding harps of Elohim.
Rev 15:3 And they sing the song of Mosheh the servant of Elohim, and the song of the Lamb, saying, “Great and marvellous are Your works, יהוה Ěl Shaddai! Righteous and true are Your ways, O Sovereign of the set-apart ones!

Joh 3:36 “He who believes in the Son possesses everlasting life, but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of Elohim remains on him.”

Once again you cannot attribute what is on two mountains with “being” the mountains, also Pre-Islamic issues should not be attributed to post Islamic issues.

Muhammad destroyed all the Idols in the Kaaba and if there were any pagan statues on the mountains I can assure you they have been destroyed as well.

Just because pagans had turned the Kaaba into a place where Idols were worshipped does not mean that the Kaaba was placed there for that purpose hence Muhammad destoyed the Idols therein taking back it's original purpose.

Idolatry in any form is completely foreign in Islam it is completely forbidden to even have an image of any of the prophets. READ the TORAH and see if this is the right way.

No pictures or descriptions of God, no putting partners with God, no belief in other gods, no even mention of other gods, no placing God's servants on a pedestal making them a partner with God, No placing a consort with God or God pro-creating

May 7, 2010 at 4:50 pm#190326

Participant

Quote (Laurel @ May 08 2010,04:05)

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 07 2010,18:28)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 07 2010,17:46)

Hi BD,
If you were in the kingdom you would preach Christ not the Johnny come lately.

If you were in the Kingdom you would preach what Jesus preached which is God.

Now are you right or am I right, which did Jesus Preach?

Please answer.

Yahushua taught YWHW is Elohim and TORAH.
Yahuhsua never said He was Elohim Himself, but that He was a Son of YHWH Elohim.

Israel began the idea of calling themselves the Children of God in the Quran they are called The Children of Israel. We know that in the beginning in genesis this was not so nor the practice. Man is a servant of God and was placed on earth as a vicegerant

Vice*ge”rent (?), a. [Vice, a. + gerent: cf. F. vicegérant.]

Having or exercising delegated power; acting by substitution, or in the place of another.

Vice*ge”rent, n.

An officer who is deputed by a superior, or by proper authority, to exercise the powers of another; a lieutenant

God did not create Adam and call him “son” but by the time Luke is written Adam is also called the son of God.

May 8, 2010 at 2:09 pm#190374

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 08 2010,04:50)

Quote (Laurel @ May 08 2010,04:05)

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 07 2010,18:28)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 07 2010,17:46)

Hi BD,
If you were in the kingdom you would preach Christ not the Johnny come lately.

If you were in the Kingdom you would preach what Jesus preached which is God.

Now are you right or am I right, which did Jesus Preach?

Please answer.

Yahushua taught YWHW is Elohim and TORAH.
Yahuhsua never said He was Elohim Himself, but that He was a Son of YHWH Elohim.

Vice*ge”rent (?), a. [Vice, a. + gerent: cf. F. vicegérant.]

Having or exercising delegated power; acting by substitution, or in the place of another.

Vice*ge”rent, n.

An officer who is deputed by a superior, or by proper authority, to exercise the powers of another; a lieutenant

God did not create Adam and call him “son” but by the time Luke is written Adam is also called the son of God.

Just speaking from personal experince and knowing that Elohim made all of creation as an expression of Himself, when i call YHWH my Father, it is with the utmost respect. He is a Father who is loving, teaching, helping, sharing, affectionate, intellegent, the most highly respected, and when necessary He diciplines us like our earthly parent. He diciplines those He loves.

I find it difficult to believe that YHWH created us to be “in His place of authority” on this earth. I like the word servant, one who serves, like a daughter who cooks breakfast for her Dad and brings it to him, a servant. But i can't agree that the word servant means to userp the authority of YHWH, at least that is how i see the word vicegerent.

Did you know the pope of the catholic church calls himself the vicer of christ, and that means “replacement of Christ.”
Also the pope thinks Christ is Elohim, so that would make the pope g_d on earth!

Now the word you posted looks an aweful lot to me like the popes title meaning “in place of” except you have related that word to YHWH Himself. OUCH!

HaSatan want us to think we can be equal to Elohim doing good and evil. That has been his plan from the beginning. To make us believe we can be like the Most High.

It seems to me that calling YHWH “Father” makes it perfectly clear that He is the One we look up to, and rely on to provide for us all our needs, and with much respect and esteem.

Even Yahuhsua taught us to pray “Our ABBA shamayim…”

YHWH is the Father of all mankind, it was He Who formed Adam from the dust of the earth and breathed life into his nostrils, and brought him up, and taught him good from evil, diciplined him, fed him, clothed him etc.

May 8, 2010 at 3:08 pm#190382

Participant

Quote (Laurel @ May 09 2010,02:09)

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 08 2010,04:50)

Quote (Laurel @ May 08 2010,04:05)

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 07 2010,18:28)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 07 2010,17:46)

Hi BD,
If you were in the kingdom you would preach Christ not the Johnny come lately.

If you were in the Kingdom you would preach what Jesus preached which is God.

Now are you right or am I right, which did Jesus Preach?

Please answer.

Yahushua taught YWHW is Elohim and TORAH.
Yahuhsua never said He was Elohim Himself, but that He was a Son of YHWH Elohim.

Vice*ge”rent (?), a. [Vice, a. + gerent: cf. F. vicegérant.]

Having or exercising delegated power; acting by substitution, or in the place of another.

Vice*ge”rent, n.

An officer who is deputed by a superior, or by proper authority, to exercise the powers of another; a lieutenant

God did not create Adam and call him “son” but by the time Luke is written Adam is also called the son of God.

Now the word you posted looks an aweful lot to me like the popes title meaning “in place of” except you have related that word to YHWH Himself. OUCH!

HaSatan want us to think we can be equal to Elohim doing good and evil. That has been his plan from the beginning. To make us believe we can be like the Most High.

It seems to me that calling YHWH “Father” makes it perfectly clear that He is the One we look up to, and rely on to provide for us all our needs, and with much respect and esteem.

Even Yahuhsua taught us to pray “Our ABBA shamayim…”

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion /B]over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Genesis 1:27-29

God told Man to lord over earth and be creative in it. Still as I said you will not find God calling Adam son until much later in the NT, in-fact the first mention of calling anyone God's son is to wayward angels(although it does not say angels):

That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Genesis 6:1-3

Now, I will say once again that to say God is your Father is an affectionate statement but it is not a literal statement. Why this is so important is if the term was not misused you would have no trinitarian theology and others that are mythical.

You cannot say Jesus is the servant of God and then make a trinity out of that but using the word “son” very easy indeed. In regards to the Pope aren't all Christians supposed to be the Vicar of Christ?

Even the priests calling themselves “Father” although Jesus said not to, by the time you get to the letters of Paul that changes too.

For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
1 Corinthians 4:14-16

Now Paul is calling himself “Father” in a heavenly sense

Philippians 2:20-23 (King James Version)

20For I have no man likeminded, who will naturally care for your state.

21For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.

22But ye know the proof of him, that, as a son with the father, he hath served with me in the gospel.

23Him therefore I hope to send presently, so soon as I shall see how it will go with me.

Did you catch that? I've never even seen that one but God must want you to see. Look at 22 again

22But ye know the proof of him, that, as a son with the father, he hath served with me in the gospel.

He's calling Timothy a son and him self the Father.

So how can the Pope and priests be wrong if this practice was condoned by Paul including the office of Pope itself as a Pope is simply the head bishop called “Pope” i.e. Father in a heavenly sense and therefore rendered Heavenly Father.

Perhaps Jesus was calling God Father as a practical matter to assist those in communicating with God with confidence either way the usage of the terms “Father” and “Son” in a religious sense has been perverted as is evidenced in the now 39,000 denominations in Christianity.

YHWH is the CREATOR of all mankind.

May 8, 2010 at 3:31 pm#190386

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 09 2010,03:08)

Quote (Laurel @ May 09 2010,02:09)

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 08 2010,04:50)

Quote (Laurel @ May 08 2010,04:05)

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 07 2010,18:28)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 07 2010,17:46)

Hi BD,
If you were in the kingdom you would preach Christ not the Johnny come lately.

If you were in the Kingdom you would preach what Jesus preached which is God.

Now are you right or am I right, which did Jesus Preach?

Please answer.

Yahushua taught YWHW is Elohim and TORAH.
Yahuhsua never said He was Elohim Himself, but that He was a Son of YHWH Elohim.

Vice*ge”rent (?), a. [Vice, a. + gerent: cf. F. vicegérant.]

Having or exercising delegated power; acting by substitution, or in the place of another.

Vice*ge”rent, n.

An officer who is deputed by a superior, or by proper authority, to exercise the powers of another; a lieutenant

God did not create Adam and call him “son” but by the time Luke is written Adam is also called the son of God.

Now the word you posted looks an aweful lot to me like the popes title meaning “in place of” except you have related that word to YHWH Himself. OUCH!

HaSatan want us to think we can be equal to Elohim doing good and evil. That has been his plan from the beginning. To make us believe we can be like the Most High.

It seems to me that calling YHWH “Father” makes it perfectly clear that He is the One we look up to, and rely on to provide for us all our needs, and with much respect and esteem.

Even Yahuhsua taught us to pray “Our ABBA shamayim…”

That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Genesis 6:1-3

Even the priests calling themselves “Father” although Jesus said not to, by the time you get to the letters of Paul that changes too.

For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
1 Corinthians 4:14-16

Now Paul is calling himself “Father” in a heavenly sense

Philippians 2:20-23 (King James Version)

20For I have no man likeminded, who will naturally care for your state.

21For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.

22But ye know the proof of him, that, as a son with the father, he hath served with me in the gospel.

23Him therefore I hope to send presently, so soon as I shall see how it will go with me.

Did you catch that? I've never even seen that one but God must want you to see. Look at 22 again

22But ye know the proof of him, that, as a son with the father, he hath served with me in the gospel.

He's calling Timothy a son and him self the Father.

YHWH is the CREATOR of all mankind.

B”
Just want to address a couple of your comments.
First that you are so correct in that anyone who is calling Yahushua Son who believes in the trinity doctrine is contradicticting themself. Good point.

Secondly that we were to be over the “animal kingdom and the ground” not the kingdom of fellow man.

Third, i do not think you understand the implications of calling yourself the “replacement for….” That means you have “elimated” the one who is being replaced! OUCH

That makes man his own elohim, and not in need of the ELohim who is in shamayim, YHWH. And this is where HaSatan becomes the true g_d of man, when man thinks to replace the True.

Lastly, Shaul is “quoting” YHWH in Torah when he says, “I have begotten you.”

Yahushua quoted Torah in the same way. This
does not mean they are Elohim, but rather by getting the Word of Elohim into the world, they become servants to YHWH Elohim. And they both make that claim, to be servants of YHWH Eloihm.

May it be that calling our El, ABBA is because of the covenant? I mean look at the fact that it was passed down from generation to generation from Father to Son, and YHWH is the Grantor and the Origin of the covenant, so wouldn't that make Him Father over all? Yes.

May 8, 2010 at 10:14 pm#190418

Participant

Quote (Laurel @ May 09 2010,03:31)

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 09 2010,03:08)

Quote (Laurel @ May 09 2010,02:09)

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 08 2010,04:50)

Quote (Laurel @ May 08 2010,04:05)

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 07 2010,18:28)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 07 2010,17:46)

Hi BD,
If you were in the kingdom you would preach Christ not the Johnny come lately.

If you were in the Kingdom you would preach what Jesus preached which is God.

Now are you right or am I right, which did Jesus Preach?

Please answer.

Yahushua taught YWHW is Elohim and TORAH.
Yahuhsua never said He was Elohim Himself, but that He was a Son of YHWH Elohim.

Vice*ge”rent (?), a. [Vice, a. + gerent: cf. F. vicegérant.]

Having or exercising delegated power; acting by substitution, or in the place of another.

Vice*ge”rent, n.

An officer who is deputed by a superior, or by proper authority, to exercise the powers of another; a lieutenant

God did not create Adam and call him “son” but by the time Luke is written Adam is also called the son of God.

Now the word you posted looks an aweful lot to me like the popes title meaning “in place of” except you have related that word to YHWH Himself. OUCH!

HaSatan want us to think we can be equal to Elohim doing good and evil. That has been his plan from the beginning. To make us believe we can be like the Most High.

It seems to me that calling YHWH “Father” makes it perfectly clear that He is the One we look up to, and rely on to provide for us all our needs, and with much respect and esteem.

Even Yahuhsua taught us to pray “Our ABBA shamayim…”

That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Genesis 6:1-3

Even the priests calling themselves “Father” although Jesus said not to, by the time you get to the letters of Paul that changes too.

For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
1 Corinthians 4:14-16

Now Paul is calling himself “Father” in a heavenly sense

Philippians 2:20-23 (King James Version)

20For I have no man likeminded, who will naturally care for your state.

21For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.

22But ye know the proof of him, that, as a son with the father, he hath served with me in the gospel.

23Him therefore I hope to send presently, so soon as I shall see how it will go with me.

Did you catch that? I've never even seen that one but God must want you to see. Look at 22 again

22But ye know the proof of him, that, as a son with the father, he hath served with me in the gospel.

He's calling Timothy a son and him self the Father.

YHWH is the CREATOR of all mankind.

Secondly that we were to be over the “animal kingdom and the ground” not the kingdom of fellow man.

Third, i do not think you understand the implications of calling yourself the “replacement for….” That means you have “elimated” the one who is being replaced! OUCH

That makes man his own elohim, and not in need of the ELohim who is in shamayim, YHWH. And this is where HaSatan becomes the t
rue g_d of man, when man thinks to replace the True.

Lastly, Shaul is “quoting” YHWH in Torah when he says, “I have begotten you.”

Yahushua quoted Torah in the same way. This does not mean they are Elohim, but rather by getting the Word of Elohim into the world, they become servants to YHWH Elohim. And they both make that claim, to be servants of YHWH Eloihm.

I don't have an issue with calling God “Father” in the sense of Former or originator but most use it in a literal sense but Paul was not the Father of the Gospel neither was Jesus. The Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven originates with God.

God did in-fact this world to be run by man but after receiving the knowledge man decided to attempt to rule each other and hence the nature of sin.

To be someones deputy does not negate their authority at all. God made man in His image and likeness and he gave man authority to act the way he chooses to act.

It's funny how you will grab onto a title such as son but not realize you are saying that a son does in-fact mimic what his father does and is the deputy for his father.

May 12, 2010 at 5:41 pm#190572

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 09 2010,10:14)

Quote (Laurel @ May 09 2010,03:31)

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 09 2010,03:08)

Quote (Laurel @ May 09 2010,02:09)

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 08 2010,04:50)

Quote (Laurel @ May 08 2010,04:05)

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 07 2010,18:28)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 07 2010,17:46)

Hi BD,
If you were in the kingdom you would preach Christ not the Johnny come lately.

If you were in the Kingdom you would preach what Jesus preached which is God.

Now are you right or am I right, which did Jesus Preach?

Please answer.

Yahushua taught YWHW is Elohim and TORAH.
Yahuhsua never said He was Elohim Himself, but that He was a Son of YHWH Elohim.

Vice*ge”rent (?), a. [Vice, a. + gerent: cf. F. vicegérant.]

Having or exercising delegated power; acting by substitution, or in the place of another.

Vice*ge”rent, n.

An officer who is deputed by a superior, or by proper authority, to exercise the powers of another; a lieutenant

God did not create Adam and call him “son” but by the time Luke is written Adam is also called the son of God.

Now the word you posted looks an aweful lot to me like the popes title meaning “in place of” except you have related that word to YHWH Himself. OUCH!

HaSatan want us to think we can be equal to Elohim doing good and evil. That has been his plan from the beginning. To make us believe we can be like the Most High.

It seems to me that calling YHWH “Father” makes it perfectly clear that He is the One we look up to, and rely on to provide for us all our needs, and with much respect and esteem.

Even Yahuhsua taught us to pray “Our ABBA shamayim…”

That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Genesis 6:1-3

Even the priests calling themselves “Father” although Jesus said not to, by the time you get to the letters of Paul that changes too.

For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
1 Corinthians 4:14-16

Now Paul is calling himself “Father” in a heavenly sense

Philippians 2:20-23 (King James Version)

20For I have no man likeminded, who will naturally care for your state.

21For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.

22But ye know the proof of him, that, as a son with the father, he hath served with me in the gospel.

23Him therefore I hope to send presently, so soon as I shall see how it will go with me.

Did you catch that? I've never even seen that one but God must want you to see. Look at 22 again

22But ye know the proof of him, that, as a son with the father, he hath served with me in the gospel.

He's calling Timothy a son and him self the Father.

YHWH is the CREATOR of all mankind.

Secondly that we were to be over the “animal kingdom and the ground” not the kingdom of fellow man.

Third, i do not think you understand the implications of calling yourself the “r
eplacement for….” That means you have “elimated” the one who is being replaced! OUCH

That makes man his own elohim, and not in need of the ELohim who is in shamayim, YHWH. And this is where HaSatan becomes the true g_d of man, when man thinks to replace the True.

Lastly, Shaul is “quoting” YHWH in Torah when he says, “I have begotten you.”

Yahushua quoted Torah in the same way. This does not mean they are Elohim, but rather by getting the Word of Elohim into the world, they become servants to YHWH Elohim. And they both make that claim, to be servants of YHWH Eloihm.

God did in-fact this world to be run by man but after receiving the knowledge man decided to attempt to rule each other and hence the nature of sin.

To be someones deputy does not negate their authority at all. God made man in His image and likeness and he gave man authority to act the way he chooses to act.

It's funny how you will grab onto a title such as son but not realize you are saying that a son does in-fact mimic what his father does and is the deputy for his father.

B”
My son-in-law believes that man has no choice. He says that everything he does is because his g_d made his choices for him.

This is wrongness!

YHWH Elohim gave us choice so that we could choose to serve Him or not. We are free to choose.

What ever choices we make will have consequences in the world, and in our own lives. YHWH will dicipline us when we need to be, and He will encourage us when we need it, but He will not choose for us.

Before the Gospel, comes the Phrophet who says “Choose this day whom you will follow, if YHWH is ELohim worship YHWH, if Ba'al (the lord) then worship him.

Yehoshua the Son of Nun answered that question by proclaiming, “As for me and my house, we shall serve YHWH!”
He chose to do righteousness, and that means walking in the TORAH, and the 10 Words. It means loving YHWH before ALL man and whateveer elohim we had in our lives, we must choose YHWH and follow His Word, and not the words and traditions of men.

May 12, 2010 at 5:48 pm#190573

Participant

Another thing B”, there is big difference between a person who does the will of YHWH and a person who boasts and say Do what ever i tell you to do. There is only one Elohim and His Name one. It is impossible to follow man “the vicer of christ (the pope)” and the Messiah Himself.

Look at the catholic church who even forsakes the Sabbath. How can a catholic serve YHWH “and” the pope who claims to be in place of Messiah Yahuhsua? It is impossible! Choose one or the other!

I know that following in the footsteps of Yahushua leads to YHWH, the pope is going to another place of his own imagination, thinking to change the times of YHWH.

May 12, 2010 at 8:23 pm#190582

Participant

Quote (Laurel @ May 13 2010,05:48)

Look at the catholic church who even forsakes the Sabbath. How can a catholic serve YHWH “and” the pope who claims to be in place of Messiah Yahuhsua? It is impossible! Choose one or the other!

I know that following in the footsteps of Yahushua leads to YHWH, the pope is going to another place of his own imagination, thinking to change the times of YHWH.

Actually you are incorrect no gentile need follow the laws of the Jews according to Paul:

Acts 15:28-30 (King James Version)

28For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

29That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Acts 15:19-20 (King James Version)

19Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

20But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

This is what Paul meant when he said:

As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:8-10

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:7-9

The gentiles are not Jews and they are the uncircumcised:

But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
Galatians 2:6-8

This was the gospel that was taught to the galatians and therefore Paul says:

As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:8-10

So you preaching that a gentile should keep the Sabbath or any other Jewish law excepting what was told that pertained to them is preaching another Gospel which in this case is the gospel of the circumcised.

May 12, 2010 at 11:30 pm#190603

Participant

Quote (Laurel @ May 13 2010,05:41)

[/quote]

Laurel,May wrote:

YHWH Elohim gave us choice so that we could choose to serve Him or not. We are free to choose.

Before the Gospel, comes the Phrophet who says “Choose this day whom you will follow, if YHWH is ELohim worship YHWH, if Ba'al (the lord) then worship him.

That is well said Laur choice to follow, the law written on our hearts, not just because we must do them. Chosing to serve and love YHVH he loved us first we choose to love back.

May 14, 2010 at 8:54 pm#190981

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 13 2010,08:23)

Quote (Laurel @ May 13 2010,05:48)

Look at the catholic church who even forsakes the Sabbath. How can a catholic serve YHWH “and” the pope who claims to be in place of Messiah Yahuhsua? It is impossible! Choose one or the other!

I know that following in the footsteps of Yahushua leads to YHWH, the pope is going to another place of his own imagination, thinking to change the times of YHWH.

Actually you are incorrect no gentile need follow the laws of the Jews according to Paul:

Acts 15:28-30 (King James Version)

28For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

29That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Acts 15:19-20 (King James Version)

19Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

20But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

This is what Paul meant when he said:

As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:8-10

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:7-9

The gentiles are not Jews and they are the uncircumcised:

But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
Galatians 2:6-8

This was the gospel that was taught to the galatians and therefore Paul says:

As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:8-10

No one must follow the Torah, Jew or Gentile, UNLESS they want to be in the Kingdom of Heaven!

You “misunderstand” Shaul's words as do most Christians. Shaul never said that we were exempt from keeping the Torah. He taught that our salvation comes from YHWH, and once we enter the covenant we too must keep the commands. Yahuhsua the Messiah said it, “If you love Me keep My commands.”

Enough said.

I never met a Gentile who fully understood Shaul.

May 14, 2010 at 10:28 pm#190987

Participant

Quote (Laurel @ May 15 2010,08:54)

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 13 2010,08:23)

Quote (Laurel @ May 13 2010,05:48)

Look at the catholic church who even forsakes the Sabbath. How can a catholic serve YHWH “and” the pope who claims to be in place of Messiah Yahuhsua? It is impossible! Choose one or the other!

I know that following in the footsteps of Yahushua leads to YHWH, the pope is going to another place of his own imagination, thinking to change the times of YHWH.

Actually you are incorrect no gentile need follow the laws of the Jews according to Paul:

Acts 15:28-30 (King James Version)

28For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

29That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Acts 15:19-20 (King James Version)

19Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

20But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

This is what Paul meant when he said:

As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:8-10

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:7-9

The gentiles are not Jews and they are the uncircumcised:

But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
Galatians 2:6-8

This was the gospel that was taught to the galatians and therefore Paul says:

As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:8-10

No one must follow the Torah, Jew or Gentile, UNLESS they want to be in the Kingdom of Heaven!

Enough said.

I never met a Gentile who fully understood Shaul.

Laurel,

What does this mean?

Acts 15:19-21 (King James Version)

19Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

20But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”
Acts 21:24-26

May 14, 2010 at 11:55 pm#190991

Participant

Who cares whos Jew or Gentile?

All Sons and Daughters of God thats all.

The 10 commandments should be written on our hearts. We love God and love all people. With kindness and patience sympathy love never ending not conditional etc. If we love God and others then we would also want to protect them especially if they are in serious error. Also by this we dont ever desire to do things to others such as murder, stealing, cheating, slander, abuse, anger violence and so on. So you will see that these things are actually written in the 10 commandments so from the heart you are obeying them. To love God we have no need for idols pictures or other gods why would we need them? We are gratefull and happy with all God has provided us with a joyfull heart even if all we can see is the sun shining and the love of God so there we are obeying we dont need to covert other things because we are gratefull even if we are left with nothing. (once we are perfected in love)

And by this the law is summed up to love the Lord our God with all our hearts and minds and our neighbour as ourselves.

May 15, 2010 at 1:29 am#191001

Participant

Quote (karmarie @ May 15 2010,11:55)

Who cares whos Jew or Gentile?

All Sons and Daughters of God thats all.

And by this the law is summed up to love the Lord our God with all our hearts and minds and our neighbour as ourselves.

and how exactly do you keep the ten commandments which were not written for you

May 15, 2010 at 8:27 am#191030

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 15 2010,13:29)

Quote (karmarie @ May 15 2010,11:55)

Who cares whos Jew or Gentile?

All Sons and Daughters of God thats all.

And by this the law is summed up to love the Lord our God with all our hearts and minds and our neighbour as ourselves.

and how exactly do you keep the ten commandments which were not written for you

Not a dot of the law has passed away, that is what Jesus has said, more meaning was put to them that is all.

Though shalt not murder do you think murder is ok?
Do you think it is ok to behead a person because they dont believe in what you believe in?

Though shalt not commit adultery
Even of the heart one man one woman (not one man 4 wives not in Jesus's teachings isnt that adultery?)

I need not carry on you see what im getting at,

The commandments have deeper meaning to them than you know. The more you think about them.

Though shalt not covet, though shalt not murder
Now if only Man hadnt coveted and murdered there would not be Nuclear weapons ready at any moment to destroy everything you see would there? The whole planet can be destroyed, did God know this? If I tell my son NOT to go on the road can I not see the consequences of what could happen even if he cant?

Jesus taught love but man chose to go their own way didnt they.

May 15, 2010 at 8:50 am#191031

Is 1:18

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 29 2010,12:13)

Why is it so important for Christians to deny Muhammad Prophethood? Is there any scripture in the Bible that says Christ is the Final Prophet?

What are his credentials that we should acknowledge him as a prophet? What prophecy has he made that has come to pass? All he did was put his own spin on the OT text and lead the gullible into a pit….

May 15, 2010 at 11:23 am#191048

kejonn

Participant

Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 15 2010,03:50)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 29 2010,12:13)

Why is it so important for Christians to deny Muhammad Prophethood? Is there any scripture in the Bible that says Christ is the Final Prophet?

What are his credentials that we should acknowledge him as a prophet? What prophecy has he made that has come to pass? All he did was put his own spin on the OT text and lead the gullible into a pit….

Prophets do not have to prophecy to have such a title. From http://www.answers.com/topic/prophet

A person who speaks by divine inspiration or as the interpreter through whom the will of a god is expressed.

Just thought I would clarify :;):

May 15, 2010 at 3:14 pm#191060

Participant

Quote (karmarie @ May 15 2010,20:27)

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 15 2010,13:29)

Quote (karmarie @ May 15 2010,11:55)

Who cares whos Jew or Gentile?

All Sons and Daughters of God thats all.

And by this the law is summed up to love the Lord our God with all our hearts and minds and our neighbour as ourselves.

and how exactly do you keep the ten commandments which were not written for you

Not a dot of the law has passed away, that is what Jesus has said, more meaning was put to them that is all.

Though shalt not murder do you think murder is ok?
Do you think it is ok to behead a person because they dont believe in what you believe in?

Though shalt not commit adultery
Even of the heart one man one woman (not one man 4 wives not in Jesus's teachings isnt that adultery?)

I need not carry on you see what im getting at,

The commandments have deeper meaning to them than you know. The more you think about them.

Jesus taught love but man chose to go their own way didnt they.

Are you now calling David, Solomon, Abraham, Jacob and Moses Adulterers?

You don't know what adultery is apparently was the 12 tribes of Israel the result of one man one woman?

Adultery is the act of a man having intercourse with another mans wife. David did commit adultery with bathsheba and was punished for it but then he married her and she became one of his wives.

No I don't believe it is acceptable to behead someone for what they believe in and there is no compulsion for someone to believe in what I believe in. However Christian crusaders were the first to behead those who did not accept the cross of Christ. I keep telling you to study first before you post to me but you refuse to do so.

Jesus taught the Word of God it was not his own doctrine. Stop trying to take God's Authority and Glory away from Him as if all mankind was floundering not knowing what to do and then Jesus was born and taught them something new.

The Jews had already known how they were supposed to behave. Jesus was sent to those who were the lost sheep of Israel so that they could worship God and know God because the corrupt priests and politicians in that day were dishonest about God and what God wanted of them.

May 15, 2010 at 3:37 pm#191062

Participant

Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 15 2010,20:50)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 29 2010,12:13)

Why is it so important for Christians to deny Muhammad Prophethood? Is there any scripture in the Bible that says Christ is the Final Prophet?

The Quran said 1300 years ago that Christians would have enmity towards one another and today their are 39,000 plus denominations most assuming that their own denomination will be the only one to go to heaven.

From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done.
( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #14)

Keep in mind at the time of that verse there was only one church

And if you know your history many Christian groups hate each other. Martin Luther called the Pope the anti-christ. Jehovah's witnesses are always persecuted by other Christians, Mormons are demonized by other Christians also look at all the false Christs such as David Koresh, Jim Jones, Jesus miranda(current false Christ)

On this site alone there is no clear cut aggreement even on the nature of Christ.

Is he God or not God? They can't agree
Is he pre-existing or not? They can't agree
Did he return already or is he returning? They can't agree

and on and on and you know why because they put the servant Christ above or equal to his master who is GOD Almighty.

Consider that every single post I make it's about the greatness of God and instead of giving mutual praise to God they glorify Jesus to the same status.

I love and honor Jesus but to put him as the equivalent of God is blasphemy.

no one here can tell me how Jesus was begotten which is an animal and human act to sire an offspring.

They will say that God is not a man or a woman but they say he sired offspring.

The Jews no what they mean when they call themselves children of God it simply means they are pious and in that understanding of course Jesus is the most pious and can be called the Son of God but he was not begat the bible has simply been embellished

It is corrupt if you don't believe me simply tell me if it is the infallible word of God why are their different versions and I don't mean different transltions I mean why are there different versions one having 73 books and th other having 66 books.

Mark 16 verses 9-20 are added and deleted in many bibles is that not tampering? If we are reading together brother and we get to Mark 16 and you say okay let's read verses 9-20 how is it I could have a Bible in my hand and say I don't have that part? Is that corruption or not?

May 16, 2010 at 12:37 am#191109