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Quote (bodhitharta @ May 05 2010,03:52) Quote (karmarie @ May 05 2010,00:28) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 03 2010,14:44) Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10:33-35And in context….
Not Peace, but a Sword
“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
And a person’s enemies will be those of his own household.
Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.”Commentary
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth. Christ has to conquer a peace by overcoming the evil that is in the way of peace. Hence, to preach the gospel of purity and peace always arouses the opposition of the evil doer. Evil has to be put down before peace can prevail. Hence, while the great end that Christ proposes is peace, the immediate result of his coming, and of the preaching of the gospel, was opposition and bloodshed.
But a sword. The only sword that Christ or his followers use in the conflict is the Sword of the Spirit, but the persecutor has in every age turned upon them the carnal sword. The sword is sent because persecutors use it upon the church.
This will happen again – soon. No doubt.
The commentary is wishful thinking, however even if it was the case it simply shows that any bloodshed that is done for the purpose of “putting down evil” appears in the commentary to be acceptable now how is it determined who is actually putting down the evil and who is being evil. Surely you would have suggested that the Israelites were being evil when they killed the women and children(including infants) of the Amalekites, right?I'm sure you would say that the Christians during the inquisition and crusades were evil, right?
Wishfull thinking? It is what Jesus said! They (the followers of Christ) were the ones who were killed, they used the sword of the Almighty – the word, but mans sword was used against them.
The crusaders were not following Christs command or word….
Quote (bodhitharta @ May 05 2010,04:06) Al-Safa and Al-Marwah are two small mountains now located in the Masjid al Haram in Makkah, Saudi Arabia between which Muslims travel back and forth seven times during the ritual pilgrimages of Hajj and Umrah. Where did you get the false information and why is it impossible for you to read and do research first, it is quite evil to conjure up lies against your LORD GOD, you should be more careful.
Now READ: READ by the grace of GOD ALMIGHTY:
History
In Islamic tradition, Ibrahim was commanded by Allah to leave his wife Hazrat Hajra(Hagar) and their infant son alone in the desert, with only basic provisions, to test their faith. The place was between Al-Safa and Al-Marwah. When their provisions were exhausted, Hazrat Hajra went in search of help or water. To make her search easier and faster, she went alone, leaving the infant Ismael on the ground. She first climbed the nearest hill, Al-Safa, to look over the surrounding area. When she saw nothing, she then went to the other hill, Al-Marwah, to look around. While Hazrat Hajra was on either hillside, she was able to see Ismael and know he was safe. However, when she was in the valley between the hills she was unable to see her son. Thus Hazrat Hajra would run while in the valley between the hills and walk at a normal pace while on the hillsides.Hazrat Hajra travelled back and forth between the hills seven times in the scorching heat before she returned to Ismael. When she arrived, she found that a spring had sprouted forth from the crying baby kicking at the sand with his feet. This spring is now known as the Zamzam Well. This Zamzam Well was granted from the angels of Allah to reward Hazrat Hajra.
You should repent from the evil you said.
The Jews and Christians have one really important thing in commen…YHWH…what is the Quran and who is Allah?
Why am I now speaking like this? Because im starting to see so much, what changed? (you know I used to believe it was the same God)…I read things and learnt, I also watched Amanpours interview with Son of Hamas author Mosab Yousef. Some things he said really opened my eyes.
Quote (bodhitharta @ May 05 2010,04:06) Quote (Laurel @ May 05 2010,01:45) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 03 2010,05:02) Quote (karmarie @ May 03 2010,00:11) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 02 2010,09:31) Quote (Laurel @ May 02 2010,04:06) B”
If it is true what you say that Muslims do not force their beliefs on anyone, then why do so many one time Muslims who believe in the Messiah get punished for leaving the Muslim belief?And why does the Quran teach to kill and Jew or Christian that they may find behind a rock?
There seems to me to be much contradiction there.
There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #256)You keep making these statements about Muslims without having any knowledge why is that? Before I make a statement about anything I research the subject and if I find something intriguing I look for context, so I ask you please look for context and not simply respond to things that TICKLE your ears.
Also if you know where such a statement is located then post it.
The Quran never teaches anyone to be offensive at any time but yes if Christians or Jews are killing Muslims they have the right to defend themselves and let me ask you even in regards to Terrorism do you think that one day some terrorist said hey I hate the USA let me fight them?
Did you not even know that the U.S. aided the Afghans in fighting the Russians?
You seem to know little about history and instead seem to just go with identity politics i.e. whoever looks like you must be right.
Did you even know that Iraq had a secular government and was a killer of his own people?
As I said before I admire the faith you have but you should be of the faithful and not of those who try to teach because you are not interested in history or learning the truth regarding some serious issues.
“The last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews and the Muslims kill them, so that Jews will hide behind stones and trees and the Stone and the tree will say, O Muslim, O servant of God! There is a Jew behind me; come and kill him. The only exception will be the box-thorn for it is one of the trees of the Jews”. (Hadith 4&41)
Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him.” (Hadith Al Buhkari vol. 9:57)
On the unbelievers/ christians/ JewsQuran: Sura 5:51; 9:5,29,41). “Take not the Jews and Christians for friends … slay the idolaters [infidels] wherever ye find them. …Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day”
Sura 4:89 “seize them and slay them wherever you find them: and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”
Sura 4:168: “Those who reject [Islamic] Faith, Allah will not forgive them nor guide them to any path except the way to Hell, to dwell therein forever. And this to Allah is easy.”
Sura 5:51: “O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he among you that turns to them for friendship is of them.”
Sura 8:12 “Remember your Lord inspired the angels with the message: “I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.”
Sura 9:5,29,41“Whoever seeks other than Islam as his religion, it will not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he will be with the losers” “Slay the idolators [non-Muslims] wherever ye find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the last Day
Sura 9:14 “Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you to victory over them, heal the breasts of the Believers.” Fight (kill) them (non-Muslims), and God will punish, (torment) them by your hands, cover them with shame
Sura 9:123: “Believers! wage war against such of the infidels as are your neighbours, and let them find you rigorous: and know that God is with those who fear him.”
Sura 47:4“Therefore, when you meet the Unbelievers in fight, smite at their necks; at length,
Sura 66:9: “O Prophet! make war on the infidels (non muslims) and hypocrites, and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their abode! and wretched the passage to it!”
So you find something wrong with war talk?Then please stop reading the bible because for everyone of those scriptures you outlined you will find a similar verse in the Old Testament.
God does wage war against unbelievers does HE not?
The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
Exodus 15:2-4Exodus 15:3 (Young's Literal Translation)
3Jehovah [is] a man of battle; Jehovah [is] His name.
And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.
Exodus 32:26-28And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword.
Leviticus 26:6-8And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.
Leviticus 26:32-34I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy.
Deuteronomy 32:41-43But thy servants will pass over, every man armed for war, before the Lord to battle, as my lord saith.
Numbers 32:26-28When thou shalt besiege a city a long time, in making war against it to take it, thou shalt not destroy the trees thereof by forcing an axe against them: for thou mayest eat of them, and thou shalt not cut them down (for the tree of the field is man's life) to employ them in the siege:
Deuteronomy 20:18-20For there fell down many slain, because the war was of God. And they dwelt in their steads until the captivity.
1 Chronicles 5:21-23There are many many of these references and you know that God does not change so isn't it easy to see that The God fr
om The Old Testament is the same as The God in The Quran?If not how do they differ?
B”
There is a huge difference between what man thinks in his own heart is righteousness, and what Elohim says is right.You can not compare man waging war on fellow man to YHWH teaching men to destroy what He says is evil. When men do this, it makes tham the son of HaSatan because it was Satan's heart to tell man that he could be like Elohim doing good AND evil.
Well HaSatan was only “partially right” as always. But man has never been given the authority to change one letter or even one decoration of a letter in the TORAH. Every time we do this it bring destruction on our own heads.
Are you calling El Shaddai unrighteous for destroying all that is evil on this earth? Are you saying that He does not know what He is doing or are you trying to justify the thought of men by comparing men with the All Mighty?
There is no comparison.
ALSO..
You quoted the Quran to say that there is no compulsion in religion, and i will say that the Quran (am i spelling this right?) contradicts itself bevause it was written by man and not a man who was inspired by Elohim. The Word does not contradict itself.
Surah 2 the cow)
158 Behold,Safa and Marwa (memorials to two gay men) are among the symbols of allah. So if those who visit the house(where the memorials to these gay men are) in the season or at other times, should compass them round (embrase them), it is no sin to them (it is ok to be gay). And if anyone obeyth his own impulse (impulse meaning compulsion) to good,- be sure that allah is he who recogniseth and knoweth. (i added the parenethetical comments)I can tell that this was not inspired by a righteous man.
So B” do you really know what you are getting into? I hope you are ignorant and not arrogant.Just so you know i am not picking on you, i am just pointing out some things that i do not agree with in that faith.
Al-Safa and Al-Marwah are two small mountains now located in the Masjid al Haram in Makkah, Saudi Arabia between which Muslims travel back and forth seven times during the ritual pilgrimages of Hajj and Umrah.Where did you get the false information and why is it impossible for you to read and do research first, it is quite evil to conjure up lies against your LORD GOD, you should be more careful.
Now READ: READ by the grace of GOD ALMIGHTY:
History
In Islamic tradition, Ibrahim was commanded by Allah to leave his wife Hazrat Hajra(Hagar) and their infant son alone in the desert, with only basic provisions, to test their faith. The place was between Al-Safa and Al-Marwah. When their provisions were exhausted, Hazrat Hajra went in search of help or water. To make her search easier and faster, she went alone, leaving the infant Ismael on the ground. She first climbed the nearest hill, Al-Safa, to look over the surrounding area. When she saw nothing, she then went to the other hill, Al-Marwah, to look around. While Hazrat Hajra was on either hillside, she was able to see Ismael and know he was safe. However, when she was in the valley between the hills she was unable to see her son. Thus Hazrat Hajra would run while in the valley between the hills and walk at a normal pace while on the hillsides.Hazrat Hajra travelled back and forth between the hills seven times in the scorching heat before she returned to Ismael. When she arrived, she found that a spring had sprouted forth from the crying baby kicking at the sand with his feet. This spring is now known as the Zamzam Well. This Zamzam Well was granted from the angels of Allah to reward Hazrat Hajra.
You should repent from the evil you said.
If i was taught falsly i beg you O Father to forgive my wrong thoughts, and if i was taught the true, then i beg of you oh YAH to show it to B' who is a man who desires to draw near to you. AMEN
ps. If i am wrong then please erase these words from all the minds of those who have read them.Gen 16:5 And Sarai said to Aḇram, “My wrong be upon you! I gave my female servant into your bosom. And when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes. Let יהוה judge between you and me.”
Gen 21:8 And the child grew and was weaned, and Aḇraham made a great feast on the day that Yitsḥaq was weaned.
Gen 21:9 And Sarah saw the son of Haḡar the Mitsrite, whom she had borne to Aḇraham, mocking.
Gen 21:10 So she said to Aḇraham, “Drive out this female servant and her son, for the son of this female servant shall not inherit with my son, with Yitsḥaq.”
Gen 21:11 And the matter was very evil in the eyes of Aḇraham because of his son.
Gen 21:12 But Elohim said to Aḇraham, “Let it not be evil in your eyes because of the boy and because of your female servant. Whatever Sarah has said to you, listen to her voice, for in Yitsḥaq your seed is called.Gen 21:14 And Aḇraham rose early in the morning, and took bread and a skin of water, which he gave to Haḡar, putting it on her shoulder, also the boy, and sent her away. And she left and wandered in the Wilderness of Beʼĕrsheḇa.
Gen 21:15 And the water in the skin was used up, and she placed the boy under one of the shrubs.
Gen 21:16 And she went and sat down about a bowshot away, for she said, “Let me not see the death of the boy.” And she sat opposite him, and lifted her voice and wept.
Gen 21:17 And Elohim heard the voice of the boy, and the messenger of Elohim called to Haḡar from the heavens, and said to her, “What is the matter with you, Haḡar? Do not fear, for Elohim has heard the voice of the boy where he is.
Gen 21:18 “Arise, lift up the boy and hold him with your hand, for I make a great nation of him.”
Gen 21:19 And Elohim opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water. And she went and filled the skin with water, and gave the boy a drink.
Gen 21:20 And Elohim was with the boy, and he grew and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer.
Gen 21:21 And he dwelt in the Wilderness of Paran, and his mother took a wife for him from the land of Mitsrayim.Stories that come by way of tradition are not always factual. But the Word of YHWH does not change.
Take for instance the Christian story of the birth of the Messiah. Ask any Christain how many wise men were there and they will tell you 3. Ask how old the babe was when the wise men arrived and they will tell you he was in the manger, just born.
The truth of the matter is that there was an inumerable number of wise men and they did not arrive to see the young child untill He was around the age of 2, and they did not go to see Him in Bet Lechem (Bethlehem).
Mat 2:1 And יהושע having been born in Bĕyth Leḥem of Yehuḏah in the days of Herodes the sovereign, see, Magi from the East came to Yerushalayim, (how many?)
Mat 2:2 saying, “Where is He who has been born Sovereign of the Yehuḏim? For we saw His star in the East and have come to do reverence to Him.”Mat 2:7 Then Herodes, having called the Magi secretly, learned exactly from them what time the star appeared.
(Herod learned the EXACT time)Mat 2:11 And coming into the house, they saw the Child with Miryam His mother, and fell down and did reverence to Him, and opening their treasures, they presented to Him gifts of gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. (the house)
Mat 2:13 And when they had left, see, a messenger of יהוה appeared to Yosĕph in a dream, saying, “Arise, take the Child and His mother, and flee to Mitsrayim, and remain there until I bring you word, for Herodes is about to seek the Child to destroy Him.”
Mat 2:14 And rising up, he took the Child and Hi
s mother by night and departed for Mitsrayim,
Mat 2:15 and remained there until the death of Herodes, to fill what was spoken by יהוה through the prophet, saying, “Out of Mitsrayim I have called My Son.”1 Footnote:1Ex. 4:22-23, Hos. 11:1, Rev. 21:7
(Child, not infant)Mat 2:16 Then Herodes, having seen that he was fooled by the Magi, was greatly enraged, and he sent forth and slew all the male children in Bĕyth Leḥem and in all its borders, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had exactly learnt from the Magi.
Mat 2:17 Then was filled what was spoken by Yirmeyahu the prophet, saying,
Mat 2:18 “A voice was heard in Ramah, wailing and weeping, and great mourning – Raḥĕl weeping for her children, refusing to be comforted, because they were no more.”
(Every time a Christain remembers the wise men they automatically remember that there were 3, when there were not. Truely they should remember an inumerable number, the number of little children that Herod murdered at the time of the wise men.)For everyone who has been following this post, please fogive me for “misleading” as i said that it was two gay men, when IN REALITY it was a normal couple, male and female. I especially apologize to B'.
I looked into this more closely as i could see that you, B', were pretty upset, so i needed to see if i was wrong. And yes i was wrong. What i learned when i looked closely is that there was a couple, a man and a woman, who had “relations” in the Ka'ba and were punished. As a memorial to them, two statues were carved out of stone, a male and a female, and these tow statues were set up on oppisite hills, the hills of Safa and Marwa.
As part of the worship the the “cube” in the Islam religion today, where they touch the black stone, and may i say the stone is enshrined in a silver vagina, the worshippers of allah run between these two hills of Safa and Marwa and touch them as well.
It looks to me from what i studied today that these traditions came BEFORE Mohammed, were performed by Mohammed as well. These traditions continue to this day.
It reminds me of the x-mas tree and the ea_ter bunny in the Christian faiths, because none of this is considered worship of YHWH according to the TORAH. We shall not worship idols, as it is told in the “Ten Words” written by the finger of the All Mighty Himself, as He is a jealous El, and a consuming El.
In the Sahih of Muslim, Volume 3, Page 411 we can read this:
“Adherents of the prophet, (when) they were still in the pre-Islamic period, used to come up to visit two idols, Isaf and Na'alia, then they would go and run between Safa and Marwa, then they would have their hair cut. When Islam was established, they hated to run between them, but Allah sent down this verse (2:158), thus they ran (between them)”I hope none of you forget that i have made amends this day and repented, meaning i admit i made a mistake!
Quote (karmarie @ May 05 2010,11:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 05 2010,03:52) Quote (karmarie @ May 05 2010,00:28) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 03 2010,14:44) Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10:33-35And in context….
Not Peace, but a Sword
“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
And a person’s enemies will be those of his own household.
Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.”Commentary
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth. Christ has to conquer a peace by overcoming the evil that is in the way of peace. Hence, to preach the gospel of purity and peace always arouses the opposition of the evil doer. Evil has to be put down before peace can prevail. Hence, while the great end that Christ proposes is peace, the immediate result of his coming, and of the preaching of the gospel, was opposition and bloodshed.
But a sword. The only sword that Christ or his followers use in the conflict is the Sword of the Spirit, but the persecutor has in every age turned upon them the carnal sword. The sword is sent because persecutors use it upon the church.
This will happen again – soon. No doubt.
The commentary is wishful thinking, however even if it was the case it simply shows that any bloodshed that is done for the purpose of “putting down evil” appears in the commentary to be acceptable now how is it determined who is actually putting down the evil and who is being evil. Surely you would have suggested that the Israelites were being evil when they killed the women and children(including infants) of the Amalekites, right?I'm sure you would say that the Christians during the inquisition and crusades were evil, right?
Wishfull thinking? It is what Jesus said! They (the followers of Christ) were the ones who were killed, they used the sword of the Almighty – the word, but mans sword was used against them.
The crusaders were not following Christs command or word….
How can you say that? How can you testify that they were not led by The Holy Spirit in their Crusade do you know what the word crusade means?It means “to mark with a cross,” If you say that the crusaders had no right to follow their violent course of action then you would have to equally admit that The Muslims were correct in possessing the Holy Land.
Quote (karmarie @ May 05 2010,11:29) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 05 2010,04:06) Al-Safa and Al-Marwah are two small mountains now located in the Masjid al Haram in Makkah, Saudi Arabia between which Muslims travel back and forth seven times during the ritual pilgrimages of Hajj and Umrah. Where did you get the false information and why is it impossible for you to read and do research first, it is quite evil to conjure up lies against your LORD GOD, you should be more careful.
Now READ: READ by the grace of GOD ALMIGHTY:
History
In Islamic tradition, Ibrahim was commanded by Allah to leave his wife Hazrat Hajra(Hagar) and their infant son alone in the desert, with only basic provisions, to test their faith. The place was between Al-Safa and Al-Marwah. When their provisions were exhausted, Hazrat Hajra went in search of help or water. To make her search easier and faster, she went alone, leaving the infant Ismael on the ground. She first climbed the nearest hill, Al-Safa, to look over the surrounding area. When she saw nothing, she then went to the other hill, Al-Marwah, to look around. While Hazrat Hajra was on either hillside, she was able to see Ismael and know he was safe. However, when she was in the valley between the hills she was unable to see her son. Thus Hazrat Hajra would run while in the valley between the hills and walk at a normal pace while on the hillsides.Hazrat Hajra travelled back and forth between the hills seven times in the scorching heat before she returned to Ismael. When she arrived, she found that a spring had sprouted forth from the crying baby kicking at the sand with his feet. This spring is now known as the Zamzam Well. This Zamzam Well was granted from the angels of Allah to reward Hazrat Hajra.
You should repent from the evil you said.
The Jews and Christians have one really important thing in commen…YHWH…what is the Quran and who is Allah?
Why am I now speaking like this? Because im starting to see so much, what changed? (you know I used to believe it was the same God)…I read things and learnt, I also watched Amanpours interview with Son of Hamas author Mosab Yousef. Some things he said really opened my eyes.
It's up to you to believe in as many gods as you like but the fact is there is only ONE GOD. The Jews recognize that ALLAH is the same God and so do ALL Christians Arabs and Jewish Arabs. ALLAH is in the Arabic Bibles because it is simply a matter of language.The relationship between Islam and Judaism is a special and close one. The two religions share similar values, and Islam incorporates Jewish history as a part of its own. Muslims regard the Children of Israel as a central religious concept in Islam. Moses is mentioned in the Qur'an more than any other prophet. Jews in turn see Muslims as prefect monotheists and as adherents of the Seven Laws of Noah. Thus according to Judaism, Muslims are seen as righteous people of God. The historical interaction of Judaism and Islam started in the 7th century with the origin and spread of Islam in the Arabian peninsula.
Quote (Laurel @ May 06 2010,01:11) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 05 2010,04:06) Quote (Laurel @ May 05 2010,01:45) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 03 2010,05:02) Quote (karmarie @ May 03 2010,00:11) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 02 2010,09:31) Quote (Laurel @ May 02 2010,04:06) B”
If it is true what you say that Muslims do not force their beliefs on anyone, then why do so many one time Muslims who believe in the Messiah get punished for leaving the Muslim belief?And why does the Quran teach to kill and Jew or Christian that they may find behind a rock?
There seems to me to be much contradiction there.
There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #256)You keep making these statements about Muslims without having any knowledge why is that? Before I make a statement about anything I research the subject and if I find something intriguing I look for context, so I ask you please look for context and not simply respond to things that TICKLE your ears.
Also if you know where such a statement is located then post it.
The Quran never teaches anyone to be offensive at any time but yes if Christians or Jews are killing Muslims they have the right to defend themselves and let me ask you even in regards to Terrorism do you think that one day some terrorist said hey I hate the USA let me fight them?
Did you not even know that the U.S. aided the Afghans in fighting the Russians?
You seem to know little about history and instead seem to just go with identity politics i.e. whoever looks like you must be right.
Did you even know that Iraq had a secular government and was a killer of his own people?
As I said before I admire the faith you have but you should be of the faithful and not of those who try to teach because you are not interested in history or learning the truth regarding some serious issues.
“The last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews and the Muslims kill them, so that Jews will hide behind stones and trees and the Stone and the tree will say, O Muslim, O servant of God! There is a Jew behind me; come and kill him. The only exception will be the box-thorn for it is one of the trees of the Jews”. (Hadith 4&41)
Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him.” (Hadith Al Buhkari vol. 9:57)
On the unbelievers/ christians/ JewsQuran: Sura 5:51; 9:5,29,41). “Take not the Jews and Christians for friends … slay the idolaters [infidels] wherever ye find them. …Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day”
Sura 4:89 “seize them and slay them wherever you find them: and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”
Sura 4:168: “Those who reject [Islamic] Faith, Allah will not forgive them nor guide them to any path except the way to Hell, to dwell therein forever. And this to Allah is easy.”
Sura 5:51: “O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he among you that turns to them for friendship is of them.”
Sura 8:12 “Remember your Lord inspired the angels with the message: “I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.”
Sura 9:5,29,41“Whoever seeks other than Islam as his religion, it will not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he will be with the losers” “Slay the idolators [non-Muslims] wherever ye find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the last Day
Sura 9:14 “Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you to victory over them, heal the breasts of the Believers.” Fight (kill) them (non-Muslims), and God will punish, (torment) them by your hands, cover them with shame
Sura 9:123: “Believers! wage war against such of the infidels as are your neighbours, and let them find you rigorous: and know that God is with those who fear him.”
Sura 47:4“Therefore, when you meet the Unbelievers in fight, smite at their necks; at length,
Sura 66:9: “O Prophet! make war on the infidels (non muslims) and hypocrites, and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their abode! and wretched the passage to it!”
So you find something wrong with war talk?Then please stop reading the bible because for everyone of those scriptures you outlined you will find a similar verse in the Old Testament.
God does wage war against unbelievers does HE not?
The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
Exodus 15:2-4Exodus 15:3 (Young's Literal Translation)
3Jehovah [is] a man of battle; Jehovah [is] His name.
And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.
Exodus 32:26-28And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword.
Leviticus 26:6-8And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.
Leviticus 26:32-34I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy.
Deuteronomy 32:41-43But thy servants will pass over, every man armed for war, before the Lord to battle, as my lord saith.
Numbers 32:26-28When thou shalt besiege a city a long time, in making war against it to take it, thou shalt not destroy the trees thereof by forcing an axe against them: for thou mayest eat of them, and thou shalt not cut them down (for the tree of the field is man's life) to employ them in the siege:
Deuteronomy 20:18-20For there fell down many slain, because the war w
as of God. And they dwelt in their steads until the captivity.
1 Chronicles 5:21-23There are many many of these references and you know that God does not change so isn't it easy to see that The God from The Old Testament is the same as The God in The Quran?
If not how do they differ?
B”
There is a huge difference between what man thinks in his own heart is righteousness, and what Elohim says is right.You can not compare man waging war on fellow man to YHWH teaching men to destroy what He says is evil. When men do this, it makes tham the son of HaSatan because it was Satan's heart to tell man that he could be like Elohim doing good AND evil.
Well HaSatan was only “partially right” as always. But man has never been given the authority to change one letter or even one decoration of a letter in the TORAH. Every time we do this it bring destruction on our own heads.
Are you calling El Shaddai unrighteous for destroying all that is evil on this earth? Are you saying that He does not know what He is doing or are you trying to justify the thought of men by comparing men with the All Mighty?
There is no comparison.
ALSO..
You quoted the Quran to say that there is no compulsion in religion, and i will say that the Quran (am i spelling this right?) contradicts itself bevause it was written by man and not a man who was inspired by Elohim. The Word does not contradict itself.
Surah 2 the cow)
158 Behold,Safa and Marwa (memorials to two gay men) are among the symbols of allah. So if those who visit the house(where the memorials to these gay men are) in the season or at other times, should compass them round (embrase them), it is no sin to them (it is ok to be gay). And if anyone obeyth his own impulse (impulse meaning compulsion) to good,- be sure that allah is he who recogniseth and knoweth. (i added the parenethetical comments)I can tell that this was not inspired by a righteous man.
So B” do you really know what you are getting into? I hope you are ignorant and not arrogant.Just so you know i am not picking on you, i am just pointing out some things that i do not agree with in that faith.
Al-Safa and Al-Marwah are two small mountains now located in the Masjid al Haram in Makkah, Saudi Arabia between which Muslims travel back and forth seven times during the ritual pilgrimages of Hajj and Umrah.Where did you get the false information and why is it impossible for you to read and do research first, it is quite evil to conjure up lies against your LORD GOD, you should be more careful.
Now READ: READ by the grace of GOD ALMIGHTY:
History
In Islamic tradition, Ibrahim was commanded by Allah to leave his wife Hazrat Hajra(Hagar) and their infant son alone in the desert, with only basic provisions, to test their faith. The place was between Al-Safa and Al-Marwah. When their provisions were exhausted, Hazrat Hajra went in search of help or water. To make her search easier and faster, she went alone, leaving the infant Ismael on the ground. She first climbed the nearest hill, Al-Safa, to look over the surrounding area. When she saw nothing, she then went to the other hill, Al-Marwah, to look around. While Hazrat Hajra was on either hillside, she was able to see Ismael and know he was safe. However, when she was in the valley between the hills she was unable to see her son. Thus Hazrat Hajra would run while in the valley between the hills and walk at a normal pace while on the hillsides.Hazrat Hajra travelled back and forth between the hills seven times in the scorching heat before she returned to Ismael. When she arrived, she found that a spring had sprouted forth from the crying baby kicking at the sand with his feet. This spring is now known as the Zamzam Well. This Zamzam Well was granted from the angels of Allah to reward Hazrat Hajra.
You should repent from the evil you said.
If i was taught falsly i beg you O Father to forgive my wrong thoughts, and if i was taught the true, then i beg of you oh YAH to show it to B' who is a man who desires to draw near to you. AMEN
ps. If i am wrong then please erase these words from all the minds of those who have read them.Gen 16:5 And Sarai said to Aḇram, “My wrong be upon you! I gave my female servant into your bosom. And when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes. Let יהוה judge between you and me.”
Gen 21:8 And the child grew and was weaned, and Aḇraham made a great feast on the day that Yitsḥaq was weaned.
Gen 21:9 And Sarah saw the son of Haḡar the Mitsrite, whom she had borne to Aḇraham, mocking.
Gen 21:10 So she said to Aḇraham, “Drive out this female servant and her son, for the son of this female servant shall not inherit with my son, with Yitsḥaq.”
Gen 21:11 And the matter was very evil in the eyes of Aḇraham because of his son.
Gen 21:12 But Elohim said to Aḇraham, “Let it not be evil in your eyes because of the boy and because of your female servant. Whatever Sarah has said to you, listen to her voice, for in Yitsḥaq your seed is called.Gen 21:14 And Aḇraham rose early in the morning, and took bread and a skin of water, which he gave to Haḡar, putting it on her shoulder, also the boy, and sent her away. And she left and wandered in the Wilderness of Beʼĕrsheḇa.
Gen 21:15 And the water in the skin was used up, and she placed the boy under one of the shrubs.
Gen 21:16 And she went and sat down about a bowshot away, for she said, “Let me not see the death of the boy.” And she sat opposite him, and lifted her voice and wept.
Gen 21:17 And Elohim heard the voice of the boy, and the messenger of Elohim called to Haḡar from the heavens, and said to her, “What is the matter with you, Haḡar? Do not fear, for Elohim has heard the voice of the boy where he is.
Gen 21:18 “Arise, lift up the boy and hold him with your hand, for I make a great nation of him.”
Gen 21:19 And Elohim opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water. And she went and filled the skin with water, and gave the boy a drink.
Gen 21:20 And Elohim was with the boy, and he grew and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer.
Gen 21:21 And he dwelt in the Wilderness of Paran, and his mother took a wife for him from the land of Mitsrayim.Stories that come by way of tradition are not always factual. But the Word of YHWH does not change.
Take for instance the Christian story of the birth of the Messiah. Ask any Christain how many wise men were there and they will tell you 3. Ask how old the babe was when the wise men arrived and they will tell you he was in the manger, just born.
The truth of the matter is that there was an inumerable number of wise men and they did not arrive to see the young child untill He was around the age of 2, and they did not go to see Him in Bet Lechem (Bethlehem).
Mat 2:1 And יהושע having been born in Bĕyth Leḥem of Yehuḏah in the days of Herodes the sovereign, see, Magi from the East came to Yerushalayim, (how many?)
Mat 2:2 saying, “Where is He who has been born Sovereign of the Yehuḏim? For we saw His star in the East and have come to do reverence to Him.”Mat 2:7 Then Herodes, having called the Magi secretly, learned exactly from them what time the star appeared.
(Herod learned the EXACT time)Mat 2:11 And coming into the house, they saw the Child with Miryam His mother, and fell down and did reverence to Him, and opening their treasures, they presented to Him gifts of gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. (the house)
Mat 2:13 And when they had left, see, a messenger of יהוה appeared to Yosĕph in a dream, saying, “Arise, take the Child an
d His mother, and flee to Mitsrayim, and remain there until I bring you word, for Herodes is about to seek the Child to destroy Him.”
Mat 2:14 And rising up, he took the Child and His mother by night and departed for Mitsrayim,
Mat 2:15 and remained there until the death of Herodes, to fill what was spoken by יהוה through the prophet, saying, “Out of Mitsrayim I have called My Son.”1 Footnote:1Ex. 4:22-23, Hos. 11:1, Rev. 21:7
(Child, not infant)Mat 2:16 Then Herodes, having seen that he was fooled by the Magi, was greatly enraged, and he sent forth and slew all the male children in Bĕyth Leḥem and in all its borders, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had exactly learnt from the Magi.
Mat 2:17 Then was filled what was spoken by Yirmeyahu the prophet, saying,
Mat 2:18 “A voice was heard in Ramah, wailing and weeping, and great mourning – Raḥĕl weeping for her children, refusing to be comforted, because they were no more.”
(Every time a Christain remembers the wise men they automatically remember that there were 3, when there were not. Truely they should remember an inumerable number, the number of little children that Herod murdered at the time of the wise men.)
You have made a good point about the age of the child when the Wise men came that is why in the Quran it speaks of Mary giving birth in another way:Surah 19
23 And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a date-palm. She said: “Would that I had died before this, and had been forgotten and out of sight!”
24 Then [the babe 'Îsa (Jesus) or Jibril (Gabriel)] cried unto her from below her, saying: “Grieve not: your Lord has provided a water stream under you.
25 “And shake the trunk of date-palm towards you, it will let fall fresh ripe-dates upon you.”
26 “So eat and drink and be glad. And if you see any human being, say: 'Verily! I have vowed a fast unto the Most Gracious (Allah) so I shall not speak to any human being this day.'”
27 Then she brought him (the baby) to her people, carrying him. They said: “O Mary! Indeed you have brought a thing Fariyy (a mighty thing). [Tafsir Al-Tabari]I have found that reading the Quran often simply fills in blanks and that helps alot.
P.S. I accept your apology and that simply shows that I was right in what I said about you having a righteous nature, may God Bless you always.
Quote (Laurel @ May 06 2010,02:40) For everyone who has been following this post, please fogive me for “misleading” as i said that it was two gay men, when IN REALITY it was a normal couple, male and female. I especially apologize to B'. I looked into this more closely as i could see that you, B', were pretty upset, so i needed to see if i was wrong. And yes i was wrong. What i learned when i looked closely is that there was a couple, a man and a woman, who had “relations” in the Ka'ba and were punished. As a memorial to them, two statues were carved out of stone, a male and a female, and these tow statues were set up on oppisite hills, the hills of Safa and Marwa.
As part of the worship the the “cube” in the Islam religion today, where they touch the black stone, and may i say the stone is enshrined in a silver vagina, the worshippers of allah run between these two hills of Safa and Marwa and touch them as well.
It looks to me from what i studied today that these traditions came BEFORE Mohammed, were performed by Mohammed as well. These traditions continue to this day.
It reminds me of the x-mas tree and the ea_ter bunny in the Christian faiths, because none of this is considered worship of YHWH according to the TORAH. We shall not worship idols, as it is told in the “Ten Words” written by the finger of the All Mighty Himself, as He is a jealous El, and a consuming El.
In the Sahih of Muslim, Volume 3, Page 411 we can read this:
“Adherents of the prophet, (when) they were still in the pre-Islamic period, used to come up to visit two idols, Isaf and Na'alia, then they would go and run between Safa and Marwa, then they would have their hair cut. When Islam was established, they hated to run between them, but Allah sent down this verse (2:158), thus they ran (between them)”I hope none of you forget that i have made amends this day and repented, meaning i admit i made a mistake!
You still are not getting your information correct. The names of the Hills have nothing to do with what was placed on the hillsThere is no male/female connection with the hills at all regarding Islam.
Performing the Sa'i, also known as Sa'ee,[1] serves to commemorate Hajar's search for water and God's mercy in answering prayers.
Dr. Ali Shariati in his book, HAJJ: Reflection on Its Rituals describes the Sa'i:
Sa'i is a search. It is a movement with an aim. It is depicted by running and hurrying. During tawaf (circumambulation) you acted as Hajar. In Ibrahim's position you acted as Ibrahim and Ismail. Once you begin “trying” (Sa'i) you are acting as Hajar again. Here is a true demonstration of oneness. Shapes, patterns, colors, degrees, personalities, borders, distinctions and distances are destroyed. Naked man and stripped humanity are on the scene! Nothing but faith, belief and action are eminent! Here nobody is spoken of; even Ibrahim, Ismail and Hajar are only names, words and symbols. Whatever exists is moving constantly, humanity and spirituality and between them only discipline. Furthermore, this is Hajj, a decision for an eternal movement in a certain direction. It is also how the whole world moves.[2]
As far as the Kaaba
The Kaaba (Arabic: الكعبة al-Kaʿbah, IPA: [ˈkɑʕbɐ]: “Cube”)[1] is a cube-shaped building in Mecca, Saudi Arabia, and is the most sacred site in Islam.[2] The building predates Islam, and, according to Islamic tradition, the first building at the site was built by Abraham.
Bod, you seem to have come back as a different person, you seem so angry – Nothing your saying is making sense to me.
I would have more understanding and patience if you had never known anything else but you knew the Bible, you were a Christian.
Hopefully one day you will return?
Quote (karmarie @ May 06 2010,11:17) Bod, you seem to have come back as a different person, you seem so angry – Nothing your saying is making sense to me. I would have more understanding and patience if you had never known anything else but you knew the Bible, you were a Christian.
Hopefully one day you will return?
I am a Christian and I do know the bible and as I said the Quran makes things clear but you don't know that because you had decided to read the Quran and then changed your mind.B”
Surah 2 the cow)
158 Behold,Safa and Marwa (memorials to two adulterers) are among the symbols of allah. So if those who visit the house(where the memorials to them once stood) in the season or at other times, should compass them round (embrase them, honor them, be like them), it is no sin to them (it is ok to be an adulterer). And if anyone obeyth his own impulse (impulse meaning compulsion) to good,- be sure that allah is he who recogniseth and knoweth. (i added the parenethetical comments)Now i repaired the words i wrote and was just wondering why you did not respond to the fact that your book contradicts itself reguarding the word compulsion. I also wonder how you can spend your whole life yearning to touch two mountains and a black rock. Dosen't this seem like idol worship to you?
It is like all those Catholics who go in droves to kiss the feet of the statue Jupiter in the vatican st.peter's cathedral. Why kiss his feet? The toes on the statue have been kissed by so many soft lips that the toes are worn off! And the pope changed the name of the statur from jupiter to peter!
Come out of Babylon and live!
Quote (bodhitharta @ May 06 2010,06:25) Quote (Laurel @ May 06 2010,01:11) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 05 2010,04:06) Quote (Laurel @ May 05 2010,01:45) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 03 2010,05:02) Quote (karmarie @ May 03 2010,00:11) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 02 2010,09:31) Quote (Laurel @ May 02 2010,04:06) B”
If it is true what you say that Muslims do not force their beliefs on anyone, then why do so many one time Muslims who believe in the Messiah get punished for leaving the Muslim belief?And why does the Quran teach to kill and Jew or Christian that they may find behind a rock?
There seems to me to be much contradiction there.
There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #256)You keep making these statements about Muslims without having any knowledge why is that? Before I make a statement about anything I research the subject and if I find something intriguing I look for context, so I ask you please look for context and not simply respond to things that TICKLE your ears.
Also if you know where such a statement is located then post it.
The Quran never teaches anyone to be offensive at any time but yes if Christians or Jews are killing Muslims they have the right to defend themselves and let me ask you even in regards to Terrorism do you think that one day some terrorist said hey I hate the USA let me fight them?
Did you not even know that the U.S. aided the Afghans in fighting the Russians?
You seem to know little about history and instead seem to just go with identity politics i.e. whoever looks like you must be right.
Did you even know that Iraq had a secular government and was a killer of his own people?
As I said before I admire the faith you have but you should be of the faithful and not of those who try to teach because you are not interested in history or learning the truth regarding some serious issues.
“The last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews and the Muslims kill them, so that Jews will hide behind stones and trees and the Stone and the tree will say, O Muslim, O servant of God! There is a Jew behind me; come and kill him. The only exception will be the box-thorn for it is one of the trees of the Jews”. (Hadith 4&41)
Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him.” (Hadith Al Buhkari vol. 9:57)
On the unbelievers/ christians/ JewsQuran: Sura 5:51; 9:5,29,41). “Take not the Jews and Christians for friends … slay the idolaters [infidels] wherever ye find them. …Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day”
Sura 4:89 “seize them and slay them wherever you find them: and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”
Sura 4:168: “Those who reject [Islamic] Faith, Allah will not forgive them nor guide them to any path except the way to Hell, to dwell therein forever. And this to Allah is easy.”
Sura 5:51: “O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he among you that turns to them for friendship is of them.”
Sura 8:12 “Remember your Lord inspired the angels with the message: “I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.”
Sura 9:5,29,41“Whoever seeks other than Islam as his religion, it will not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he will be with the losers” “Slay the idolators [non-Muslims] wherever ye find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the last Day
Sura 9:14 “Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you to victory over them, heal the breasts of the Believers.” Fight (kill) them (non-Muslims), and God will punish, (torment) them by your hands, cover them with shame
Sura 9:123: “Believers! wage war against such of the infidels as are your neighbours, and let them find you rigorous: and know that God is with those who fear him.”
Sura 47:4“Therefore, when you meet the Unbelievers in fight, smite at their necks; at length,
Sura 66:9: “O Prophet! make war on the infidels (non muslims) and hypocrites, and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their abode! and wretched the passage to it!”
So you find something wrong with war talk?Then please stop reading the bible because for everyone of those scriptures you outlined you will find a similar verse in the Old Testament.
God does wage war against unbelievers does HE not?
The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
Exodus 15:2-4Exodus 15:3 (Young's Literal Translation)
3Jehovah [is] a man of battle; Jehovah [is] His name.
And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.
Exodus 32:26-28And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword.
Leviticus 26:6-8And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.
Leviticus 26:32-34I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy.
Deuteronomy 32:41-43But thy servants will pass over, every man armed for war, before the Lord to battle, as my lord saith.
Numbers 32:26-28When thou shalt besiege a city a long time, in making war against it to take it, thou shalt not destroy the trees thereof by forcing an axe again
st them: for thou mayest eat of them, and thou shalt not cut them down (for the tree of the field is man's life) to employ them in the siege:
Deuteronomy 20:18-20For there fell down many slain, because the war was of God. And they dwelt in their steads until the captivity.
1 Chronicles 5:21-23There are many many of these references and you know that God does not change so isn't it easy to see that The God from The Old Testament is the same as The God in The Quran?
If not how do they differ?
B”
There is a huge difference between what man thinks in his own heart is righteousness, and what Elohim says is right.You can not compare man waging war on fellow man to YHWH teaching men to destroy what He says is evil. When men do this, it makes tham the son of HaSatan because it was Satan's heart to tell man that he could be like Elohim doing good AND evil.
Well HaSatan was only “partially right” as always. But man has never been given the authority to change one letter or even one decoration of a letter in the TORAH. Every time we do this it bring destruction on our own heads.
Are you calling El Shaddai unrighteous for destroying all that is evil on this earth? Are you saying that He does not know what He is doing or are you trying to justify the thought of men by comparing men with the All Mighty?
There is no comparison.
ALSO..
You quoted the Quran to say that there is no compulsion in religion, and i will say that the Quran (am i spelling this right?) contradicts itself bevause it was written by man and not a man who was inspired by Elohim. The Word does not contradict itself.
Surah 2 the cow)
158 Behold,Safa and Marwa (memorials to two gay men) are among the symbols of allah. So if those who visit the house(where the memorials to these gay men are) in the season or at other times, should compass them round (embrase them), it is no sin to them (it is ok to be gay). And if anyone obeyth his own impulse (impulse meaning compulsion) to good,- be sure that allah is he who recogniseth and knoweth. (i added the parenethetical comments)I can tell that this was not inspired by a righteous man.
So B” do you really know what you are getting into? I hope you are ignorant and not arrogant.Just so you know i am not picking on you, i am just pointing out some things that i do not agree with in that faith.
Al-Safa and Al-Marwah are two small mountains now located in the Masjid al Haram in Makkah, Saudi Arabia between which Muslims travel back and forth seven times during the ritual pilgrimages of Hajj and Umrah.Where did you get the false information and why is it impossible for you to read and do research first, it is quite evil to conjure up lies against your LORD GOD, you should be more careful.
Now READ: READ by the grace of GOD ALMIGHTY:
History
In Islamic tradition, Ibrahim was commanded by Allah to leave his wife Hazrat Hajra(Hagar) and their infant son alone in the desert, with only basic provisions, to test their faith. The place was between Al-Safa and Al-Marwah. When their provisions were exhausted, Hazrat Hajra went in search of help or water. To make her search easier and faster, she went alone, leaving the infant Ismael on the ground. She first climbed the nearest hill, Al-Safa, to look over the surrounding area. When she saw nothing, she then went to the other hill, Al-Marwah, to look around. While Hazrat Hajra was on either hillside, she was able to see Ismael and know he was safe. However, when she was in the valley between the hills she was unable to see her son. Thus Hazrat Hajra would run while in the valley between the hills and walk at a normal pace while on the hillsides.Hazrat Hajra travelled back and forth between the hills seven times in the scorching heat before she returned to Ismael. When she arrived, she found that a spring had sprouted forth from the crying baby kicking at the sand with his feet. This spring is now known as the Zamzam Well. This Zamzam Well was granted from the angels of Allah to reward Hazrat Hajra.
You should repent from the evil you said.
If i was taught falsly i beg you O Father to forgive my wrong thoughts, and if i was taught the true, then i beg of you oh YAH to show it to B' who is a man who desires to draw near to you. AMEN
ps. If i am wrong then please erase these words from all the minds of those who have read them.Gen 16:5 And Sarai said to Aḇram, “My wrong be upon you! I gave my female servant into your bosom. And when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes. Let יהוה judge between you and me.”
Gen 21:8 And the child grew and was weaned, and Aḇraham made a great feast on the day that Yitsḥaq was weaned.
Gen 21:9 And Sarah saw the son of Haḡar the Mitsrite, whom she had borne to Aḇraham, mocking.
Gen 21:10 So she said to Aḇraham, “Drive out this female servant and her son, for the son of this female servant shall not inherit with my son, with Yitsḥaq.”
Gen 21:11 And the matter was very evil in the eyes of Aḇraham because of his son.
Gen 21:12 But Elohim said to Aḇraham, “Let it not be evil in your eyes because of the boy and because of your female servant. Whatever Sarah has said to you, listen to her voice, for in Yitsḥaq your seed is called.Gen 21:14 And Aḇraham rose early in the morning, and took bread and a skin of water, which he gave to Haḡar, putting it on her shoulder, also the boy, and sent her away. And she left and wandered in the Wilderness of Beʼĕrsheḇa.
Gen 21:15 And the water in the skin was used up, and she placed the boy under one of the shrubs.
Gen 21:16 And she went and sat down about a bowshot away, for she said, “Let me not see the death of the boy.” And she sat opposite him, and lifted her voice and wept.
Gen 21:17 And Elohim heard the voice of the boy, and the messenger of Elohim called to Haḡar from the heavens, and said to her, “What is the matter with you, Haḡar? Do not fear, for Elohim has heard the voice of the boy where he is.
Gen 21:18 “Arise, lift up the boy and hold him with your hand, for I make a great nation of him.”
Gen 21:19 And Elohim opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water. And she went and filled the skin with water, and gave the boy a drink.
Gen 21:20 And Elohim was with the boy, and he grew and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer.
Gen 21:21 And he dwelt in the Wilderness of Paran, and his mother took a wife for him from the land of Mitsrayim.Stories that come by way of tradition are not always factual. But the Word of YHWH does not change.
Take for instance the Christian story of the birth of the Messiah. Ask any Christain how many wise men were there and they will tell you 3. Ask how old the babe was when the wise men arrived and they will tell you he was in the manger, just born.
The truth of the matter is that there was an inumerable number of wise men and they did not arrive to see the young child untill He was around the age of 2, and they did not go to see Him in Bet Lechem (Bethlehem).
Mat 2:1 And יהושע having been born in Bĕyth Leḥem of Yehuḏah in the days of Herodes the sovereign, see, Magi from the East came to Yerushalayim, (how many?)
Mat 2:2 saying, “Where is He who has been born Sovereign of the Yehuḏim? For we saw His star in the East and have come to do reverence to Him.”Mat 2:7 Then Herodes, having called the Magi secretly, learned exactly from them what time the star appeared.
(Herod learned the EXACT time)Mat 2:11 And coming into the house, they saw the Child with Miryam His mother, and fell down and did reverence to Him, and opening their treasures, they present
ed to Him gifts of gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. (the house)Mat 2:13 And when they had left, see, a messenger of יהוה appeared to Yosĕph in a dream, saying, “Arise, take the Child and His mother, and flee to Mitsrayim, and remain there until I bring you word, for Herodes is about to seek the Child to destroy Him.”
Mat 2:14 And rising up, he took the Child and His mother by night and departed for Mitsrayim,
Mat 2:15 and remained there until the death of Herodes, to fill what was spoken by יהוה through the prophet, saying, “Out of Mitsrayim I have called My Son.”1 Footnote:1Ex. 4:22-23, Hos. 11:1, Rev. 21:7
(Child, not infant)Mat 2:16 Then Herodes, having seen that he was fooled by the Magi, was greatly enraged, and he sent forth and slew all the male children in Bĕyth Leḥem and in all its borders, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had exactly learnt from the Magi.
Mat 2:17 Then was filled what was spoken by Yirmeyahu the prophet, saying,
Mat 2:18 “A voice was heard in Ramah, wailing and weeping, and great mourning – Raḥĕl weeping for her children, refusing to be comforted, because they were no more.”
(Every time a Christain remembers the wise men they automatically remember that there were 3, when there were not. Truely they should remember an inumerable number, the number of little children that Herod murdered at the time of the wise men.)
You have made a good point about the age of the child when the Wise men came that is why in the Quran it speaks of Mary giving birth in another way:Surah 19
23 And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a date-palm. She said: “Would that I had died before this, and had been forgotten and out of sight!”
24 Then [the babe 'Îsa (Jesus) or Jibril (Gabriel)] cried unto her from below her, saying: “Grieve not: your Lord has provided a water stream under you.
25 “And shake the trunk of date-palm towards you, it will let fall fresh ripe-dates upon you.”
26 “So eat and drink and be glad. And if you see any human being, say: 'Verily! I have vowed a fast unto the Most Gracious (Allah) so I shall not speak to any human being this day.'”
27 Then she brought him (the baby) to her people, carrying him. They said: “O Mary! Indeed you have brought a thing Fariyy (a mighty thing). [Tafsir Al-Tabari]I have found that reading the Quran often simply fills in blanks and that helps alot.
P.S. I accept your apology and that simply shows that I was right in what I said about you having a righteous nature, may God Bless you always.
On the contrary, Mr. Self Righteous, you have just posted words from a book that goes against the Torah and the Teaching of the Messiah's taught-ones. has nothing to do with Yahushua the Messiah. Those are made up words to fit the made up religion of the person who wrote them.YHWH never teaches that Yahushua the Messiah spoke to his earthly mother from the womb, or where ever “down there” means. How can you read this and believe it?
I also noticed that you think Je_us is the same as Gabriel. weird. First of all His Name is not Je_us and it never has been or will be. It must be speaking of another person who i know not. This tells me that your book has been tainted with the religion of Constantine, else it would use His birth Name especially since the Arab language and the Hebrew language are so much alike. Maybe this prooves that Je_us or Issus or Jebus is the anti-messiah that came before Yahushua the true Messiah was even born!
And what is the point of the tree. It makes the tree look like an object of worship to me.
Quote (Laurel @ May 07 2010,07:14) B”
Surah 2 the cow)
158 Behold,Safa and Marwa (memorials to two adulterers) are among the symbols of allah. So if those who visit the house(where the memorials to them once stood) in the season or at other times, should compass them round (embrase them, honor them, be like them), it is no sin to them (it is ok to be an adulterer). And if anyone obeyth his own impulse (impulse meaning compulsion) to good,- be sure that allah is he who recogniseth and knoweth. (i added the parenethetical comments)Now i repaired the words i wrote and was just wondering why you did not respond to the fact that your book contradicts itself reguarding the word compulsion. I also wonder how you can spend your whole life yearning to touch two mountains and a black rock. Dosen't this seem like idol worship to you?
It is like all those Catholics who go in droves to kiss the feet of the statue Jupiter in the vatican st.peter's cathedral. Why kiss his feet? The toes on the statue have been kissed by so many soft lips that the toes are worn off! And the pope changed the name of the statur from jupiter to peter!
Come out of Babylon and live!
I don't know where you are getting your information from but it is really incorrect(I have told you several times that these are two mountains not people or statues), how could you think that adultery is accepted in Islam?Nor come nigh to adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils).
( سورة الإسراء , Al-Isra, Chapter #17, Verse #32)Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.
( سورة النور , An-Noor, Chapter #24, Verse #3)I know you don't mean to be dishonest but surely you must understand that if you say a slanderous thing and are corrected and yet continue to say it then you are placing yourself in the wrong.
It is perfectly honest to say that you don't believe in what someone else believes in but it is entirely wrong to misrepresent what someone believes in especially when they inform you that you are incorrect in your information several times and it is not in the persons scriptures anything remotely close to the information you provided.
Quote (Laurel @ May 07 2010,07:28) On the contrary, Mr. Self Righteous, you have just posted words from a book that goes against the Torah and the Teaching of the Messiah's taught-ones. has nothing to do with Yahushua the Messiah. Those are made up words to fit the made up religion of the person who wrote them. YHWH never teaches that Yahushua the Messiah spoke to his earthly mother from the womb, or where ever “down there” means. How can you read this and believe it?
I also noticed that you think Je_us is the same as Gabriel. weird. First of all His Name is not Je_us and it never has been or will be. It must be speaking of another person who i know not. This tells me that your book has been tainted with the religion of Constantine, else it would use His birth Name especially since the Arab language and the Hebrew language are so much alike. Maybe this prooves that Je_us or Issus or Jebus is the anti-messiah that came before Yahushua the true Messiah was even born!
And what is the point of the tree. It makes the tree look like an object of worship to me.
How does the Quran go against the Torah or the teachings Christ?Yeshua or Yahushua and why?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 07 2010,10:04) Hi BD,
It is far more likely that God sent the mailman than another prophet with false teachings.
Tell me, why do the teachings “have” to be false?Why was Paul sent to the gentiles(the circumcised) and yet Peter was not sent to the gentiles(Uncircumcised)
Why were the gentiles not taught the law of the Jews nor were they obligated to follow the Jewish law?
Tell me if what you say is true
p.s. This question is for anyone else too
Hi BD,
Jesus is the way for all.
All who came before are thieves and robbers.
None came after the messiah except his servants offering his message.Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 07 2010,10:42) Hi BD,
Jesus is the way for all.
All who came before are thieves and robbers.
None came after the messiah except his servants offering his message.
Abraham,Moses and Elijah were thieves and robbers?
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