Why all Catholics are not 'Roman Catholic

[princess of the king]

What of the Angilcan Church?

they tend to call mass 'bells and smells'.

[princess of the king]

http://www.inplainsite.org/html/two_faces_of_catholicism.html

[georg]

Quote (princess of the king @ Oct. 04 2009,01:12)

What of the Angilcan Church? they tend to call mass 'bells and smells'.

Do you know what the Mass is?  They think that it was not enough that Christ died once.
Anti-Christ is however teaching that Christs sacrifice is only cleansing us from Adams inherited sin, and that our daily sins
can only be forgiven by a daily Mass sacrifice, during which Christ dies again and again.  Teaching that Christs sacrifice  was not good enough,  is an insult of the hightest degree.  It is a slap in  the face of Jesus after He had just died for us an agonizing and torturous death.  For something to be called an abomination is the strongest term used by God, to show how much He hates it.  The Anti-Christ Gospel has destroyed the true meaning of Christ's sacrifice; even people who don't celebrate the Mass, don't undestand that; it has spread all over the world.  And that from the time this abomination would be set up, there would be 1,290 years till its exposed (Dan. 12:11), exposed only because this abomination is still going on this very day.
It was Martin Luther exposed this abomination and many more wrongs of Anti-Christ in 1517 when He made His ninety-five disagreements with the Roman Universal Church public.  Counting back 1,290 yers from the year 1517 brings us to  the  time it was set up, the year A.D.227;
This is my Husband's understanding of Ancient History which He studied.
And I agree with Him.
Peace and Lov e Irene

[Catholic Apologist]

Quote (t8 @ Oct. 03 2009,22:45)

There is one Church CA. It is the body of Christ. Not a creation of the Roman Empire or a Roman Emperor. Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. Colossians 1:24 Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church.

Amen.

[Catholic Apologist]

Quote (t8 @ Oct. 03 2009,23:30)

What about “Why Catholic not 'Roman Catholic'” With the caption, “Includes historical references of good works” A bit confusing I know. Perhaps you come up with something better, that describes the nature of this discussion now?

t8,

Yeah…sorry…we did get going on the wrong foot. I was hoping to post about the fruit of the Catholic Church.

But if you want to make this about the “Roman Catholic” issue that would be fine with me.

I shouldn't assume that you have read all of my posts. I know I certainly have not even begun to read all of yours. So sorry about that as well.

But I do want to be clear. I don't have a problem with a Latin Catholic using the name “Roman Catholic” even though this is not canonical. If I were a Latin Rite Catholic I may prefer to be called Catholic since this is not an official title we claim for ourselves. But as I have shown, it was originally a pejorative term applied to Catholics by Protestants. It used to (and still does for some) hold a bias that would suggest that the Catholic faith is only the faith of Rome and not of the whole world. This is of course patently false and easily refuted.

But some Catholics today look at this term as meaning simply that we are all under the jurisdiction of the Bishop of Rome. Even some dioceses in America advertise the name “Roman Catholic Diocese of ____”

But this is a term even in that case that encompasses only part of the Church and not the whole. I am an Eastern Catholic under the patriarch of Antioch. Our liturgical language is not Latin, but Syriac/Aramaic the language of Jesus Christ. We are not Roman Catholics.

Does this make more sense to you now?

So a title that I think would be good for this discussion would be “Why all Catholics are not 'Roman Catholic'”

What do you think?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (CatholicApologist @ Oct. 04 2009,08:18)

Quote (t8 @ Oct. 03 2009,23:30) What about “Why Catholic not 'Roman Catholic'” With the caption, “Includes historical references of good works” A bit confusing I know. Perhaps you come up with something better, that describes the nature of this discussion now? t8, Yeah…sorry…we did get going on the wrong foot.  I was hoping to post about the fruit of the Catholic Church. But if you want to make this about the “Roman Catholic” issue that would be fine with me.   I shouldn't assume that you have read all of my posts.  I know I certainly have not even begun to read all of yours.  So sorry about that as well. But I do want to be clear.  I don't have a problem with a Latin Catholic using the name “Roman Catholic” even though this is not canonical.  If I were a Latin Rite Catholic I may prefer to be called Catholic since this is not an official title we claim for ourselves.  But as I have shown, it was originally a pejorative term applied to Catholics by Protestants.  It used to (and still does for some) hold a bias that would suggest that the Catholic faith is only the faith of Rome and not of the whole world.  This is of course patently false and easily refuted.   But some Catholics today look at this term as meaning simply that we are all under the jurisdiction of the Bishop of Rome.  Even some dioceses in America advertise the name “Roman Catholic Diocese of ____” But this is a term even in that case that encompasses only part of the Church and not the whole.  I am an Eastern Catholic under the patriarch of Antioch.  Our liturgical language is not Latin, but Syriac/Aramaic the language of Jesus Christ.  We are not Roman Catholics. Does this make more sense to you now? So a title that I think would be good for this discussion would be “Why all Catholics are not 'Roman Catholic'” What do you think?

CA,

You speak against Islam but if it had not been for Islam your syrian Patriachal eatern catholic church would not even exist.

The Position of the Syrians Toward the Islamic Conquest

The religious conflicts in the Christian church, the attempts of the Byzantine powers to force the issues of the council of Chalcedon upon the other churches by force, to throw its members in prison, to kill them, to ban them and to drive them out alienated the Syrian Christians. All these unchristian deeds only sowed hate and aversion in the hearts of the Syrians against the Byzantine powers. The Persian powers in their empire oppressed both West and East Syrians in general to force them under tyrannical policies and Zoroastrian beliefs. Therefore the Syrians under the Byzantine and Persian powers saw the Islamic conquerors as liberators and not as occupiers. The Syrians put great hope in them, not only because the Muslims liberated them from their religious trouble but also because they relieved the Syrians of the burdensome taxes that were placed on their backs. They said, “Praise be to God, who delivered us from the unjust Byzantines and who put us under the rule of the just Muslim Arabs.”

http://www.syrianchurch.org/PZakka/ShortHisIslam.htm

In-fact I praise God that you have brought up certain issues for they further increase my belief in God and that he sent down the Quran look:

We do not want to forget that the main religious dogma of Christianity and Islam are close to each other, such as the belief in one God who made heaven and earth, the belief in the day of judgment, the day of the resurrection, eternal life, heaven and hell, etc. There are also historical-religious events of the Syrians, which are mentioned in the Quran, like the Legend of the Cave and The Martyrs of the Furrow. For the Syrians the Legend of the Cave was an event with which God proves that He, the creator, can bring back to life the dead on the day of the resurrection. It was handed down in the Syriac language in excellent style, verse and prose. It belongs to the Syrian tradition and was studied thoroughly also by the great chroniclers like Zachariah the Rhetor (+536), John of Ephesus (+587), the Monk of Zuqnin (+775) and others. We also have a poem, containing 74 verses in 7-syllable meter, by Mor Jacob of Serugh (+521). The church remembers these Seven Sleepers on November 24 every year. They have their own liturgical prayer in which the truth of their sleeping and awakening is documented and handed down.

http://www.syrianchurch.org/PZakka/ShortHisIslam.htm

It seems like your Church has a good view of Islam but you are disobedient in their viewpoint:

The Martyrs of the Furrow who are mentioned in the Quran are the Himyarite martyrs, the Syrian-Christian Arabs of Najran, who were persecuted by Mashruq the Jew, known as Dhu Nuwas, and thus gained martyrdom. Islam From the View of the Scientists of the Syrian Church All of the Syrian scientists who occupied themselves with the biography of the prophet Muhammad described his qualities and noble character traits. Because of lack of space we will content ourselves with the testimony of Bar Haebraus, Maphrian of the East (1286 A.D.) who summarized the life of the prophet Muhammad in his book Chronicle of the Dynasties as follows : “(Muhammad Ibn Abdallah, Peace be upon him) The biographies of Muhammad mentioned that he is from Ishmael, the son of Abraham, whom Hagar gave birth to . . . He was born in Mecca in the year 882 (after the Seleucid era that is 571 A.D.). When he was about two years old, his father Abdallah died. His mother, Amina, the daughter of Wahab, stayed with him for six years. After her death his grandfather Abdul Muttaleb took him and vouched for him. When he was about to die, he asked his son Abu Talib to take care of him. When he was nine years old, his uncle took him along to Syria.

When they arrived in Bosra, a clairvoyant monk called Bahira met them and stepped towards them. When he came to the child, he held his hand and said: 'This boy will become a great man, and his fame will go across borders because when he came he was shaded by a cloud.' When he was 25 years old an honorable, noble and rich woman called Khadija offered that he run her business in Syria. She wanted to pay him more than anyone else. He took the offer. Then she wanted to marry him and offered herself in marriage. She was 40 years old when he married her. They lived 22 years together. Then she died in Mecca. When Muhammad turned 40 he began his mission. After the death of his uncle and his wife, the tribe of “Quarisch” harmed him so he emigrated to Al-Medina (which is Yathrib). In the first year of his emigration he was celebrated by the people and they supported him against his enemies in Mecca . . . In the 10th year of his emigration he went on his last pilgrimage and in this year he got sick. Two days before the end of the month Safar, on a Monday, he died at the age of 63. The people of Mecca wanted to bury him in Mecca where he was born. The population of Al-Medina, however, wanted to bury him in their city because he emigrated there. Others, for their part, wanted to bury him in Jerusalem because that was the place where prophets were buried. In the end all parties agreed to bury him in Al-Medina in the same room where he had died.”

To gain a better overview of
the prophet, we add to the before mentioned: The messenger Muhammad converted the Arabs during their feast gatherings and many believed in his teachings. He had to leave Mecca to evade the persecution of the Qurischians. The population of Al-Medina welcomed him and supported him. Later he had to take up the sword to protect the fruits of his mission from its enemies. Therefore, he armed armies and led invasions. Among the important wars is the great Badr invasion in which the Muslims won a great victory. Among the good deeds of the Muslims are counted the buying of the prisoners' freedom through teaching: The money to buy the prisoners freedom was collected in that every prisoner of Quarisch had to teach ten children of Al-Medina reading and writing. The wealthy could buy their relatives free with money also. Before every invasion the messenger instructed his armies with these words: “You will find men who withdrew into cells; do not disturb them, kill no woman, no child, no old man and do not cut down a tree.” In this way the messenger Muhammad wanted to proclaim his message in the world as brotherly and just and by keeping freedom and human rights. Whoever studies the Quran in- depth will understand that the messenger Muhammad was not sent to force people into Islam. The following verses in the Quran confirm this truth: “It is not for you to guide them: God guides whom he will.” (Sura 2, The Cow, verse 272)

“There is no compulsion in matters of faith. Distinct is the way of guidance now from error. He who turns away from the forces of evil and believes in God, will surely hold fast to a handle that is strong and unbreakable, for God hears all and knows every thing. (Sura 2, The Cow, verse 256)

“And tell the people of the book and the heathens: 'Do you submit?' If they do, they will find the right path; if they turn away, your duty is to deliver the message. And God keeps an eye on His votaries.” (Sura 3, The Family of Imran, verse 20)

“Call them to the path of your Lord with wisdom and words of good advice; and reason with them in the best way possible. Your Lord surely knows who strays from his path, and he knows those who are guided the right way.” (Sura 16, The Bees, verse 125)

“We have sent down this book to you with the truth for all humanity. So, he who comes to guidance does so for himself, and he who goes astray does so for his own loss; on you does not lie their guardianship.” (Sura 39, The Small Groups, verse 41)

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
Catholicism and Islam have been bitter enemies since the early days.
Both are human political religions and neither has any connection with God.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 04 2009,11:42)

Hi BD, Catholicism and Islam have been bitter enemies since the early days. Both are human political religions and neither has any connection with God.

No Nick,

CA is right, Catholicism just like other Christian groups have been split and the Christian Church he belongs to depended on Islam for survival.

I have been researching his church's history.

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
History does not prove any connections with the God of Israel and Jesus.

[georg]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 04 2009,12:01)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 04 2009,11:42) Hi BD, Catholicism and Islam have been bitter enemies since the early days. Both are human political religions and neither has any connection with God. No Nick, CA is right, Catholicism just like other Christian groups have been split and the Christian Church he belongs to depended on Islam for survival. I have been researching his church's history.

Really, and you agree with what they did?  You must have had the wrong information.
Ancient History is what tells so much.  And not what that Church is telling people. Oh, also they too believe in the trinity.  And Maria worship, you call that Christian?  That alone is wrong and whoever teaches it, is worshipping in Vain.  It is a manmade doctrine, the trinity is.  And Maria did not stay a Virgin like they claim.  Only our Heavenly Fasther deserves to be prayed to. Each Or Father isfollowed by a ail Maria.  I sure don't know were you get that information from, that you say they are Christain.  
Math. 15:9 In vain do they worship Me, teaching the doctrine the commandments of men.
Rev. 18:4  ….” Come out of her my people, lest you will share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.”
Heed the warning.
Peaceand Love Irene

[bodhitharta]

Quote (georg @ Oct. 04 2009,12:26)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 04 2009,12:01) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 04 2009,11:42) Hi BD, Catholicism and Islam have been bitter enemies since the early days. Both are human political religions and neither has any connection with God. No Nick, CA is right, Catholicism just like other Christian groups have been split and the Christian Church he belongs to depended on Islam for survival. I have been researching his church's history. Really, and you agree with what they did?  You must have had the wrong information. Ancient History is what tells so much.  And not what that Church is telling people. Oh, also they too believe in the trinity.  That alone is wrong and whoever teaches it, is worshipping in Vain.  It is a manmade doctrine. Math. 15:9 In vain do they worship Me, teaching the doctrine the commandments of men. Rev. 18:4  ….” Come out of her my people, lest you will share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.” Heed the warning. Peaceand Love Irene

When you speak of Rev 18:4 how is it you apply it to every church you dislike.

I am not saying that you are wrong but if you apply that verse to Catholocism as a whole then it also applies to all Christians because all christian churches are her daughter.

[Proclaimer]

But not all Christians are of her.

And of the ones that are, it says “Come out of her MY people”.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (t8 @ Oct. 04 2009,12:36)

But not all Christians are of her. And of the ones that are, it says “Come out of her MY people”.

But how is it assumed that the scripture is speaking about Catholocism?

Revelation 18
1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

How does this in anyway describe Catholocism?

[GeneBalthrop]

CA………..You are right most (ALL) “Christianity” is Daughters of the Catholic Church and they keep nearly all He Beliefs, (Sun) day worship, Trinity, Preexistence of Jesus, Doctrines of Devils and demons, Christmas, Isthar or Easter the SEX Goddess with all the sex symbol's of easter eggs and bunny rabbits . So yes you are right just about (ALL) are HER Daughters make up “Christianity” today. But as T8 said we are told to come out of Her so we will not recieve of (HER) Pleagues. The pleague is confusion brought on by (FALSE TEACHINGS) IMO

gene

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Gene @ Oct. 04 2009,12:52)

CA………..You are right most (ALL) “Christianity” is Daughters of the Catholic Church and they keep nearly all He Beliefs, (Sun) day worship, Trinity, Preexistence of Jesus, Doctrines of Devils and demons, Christmas, Isthar or Easter the SEX Goddess with all the sex symbol's of easter eggs and bunny rabbits .  So yes you are right just about (ALL) are HER Daughters make up “Christianity” today. But as T8 said we are told to come out of Her so we will not recieve of (HER) Pleagues. The pleague is confusion brought on by (FALSE TEACHINGS)  IMO gene

Were you addressing me?

All organized religion with any hiearchy is Babylon so if you are a part of any “system” that has a pyramid type structure you are in babylon for Christ annuled the positions of people being above others because they always abuse the brethren.

God has taught us through the Prophets and has sent his Christ, the Quran makes it clear that this is the way. In Islam there is no leader and yet in shia Islam Satan has begin babylon again but in orthodox Sunni Islam there is no one who is above you because God has made us all brothers.

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
There is no way that passes through Islam in scripture
unless it is the way that seems right to men but ends in death[Pr].

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 04 2009,13:30)

Hi BD, There is no way that passes through Islam in scripture unless it is the way that seems right to men but ends in death[Pr].

Are you sure? You do know that the ways of God are higher than yours, right?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 04 2009,13:30)

Hi BD, There is no way that passes through Islam in scripture unless it is the way that seems right to men but ends in death[Pr].

Isaiah 55:7-9 (King James Version)

7Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Yet you don't believe in the word of God, Nick?

8For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

9For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Yet you speak on behalf of the lord without prophesying

[Proclaimer]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 04 2009,12:42)

But how is it assumed that the scripture is speaking about Catholocism? Revelation 18 1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. 6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. 7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. 9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, How does this in anyway describe Catholocism?

We don't know for sure because Babylon in Revelation is a mystery. “Mystery Babylon”.

However there are some amazing similarities with Babylon and Christendoms beliefs.

Descriptions that fit include:

[Proclaimer]

As for the descriptions you mention from Revelation, well there could be a number of ways to see it. One way is that Rome could be nuked by an Islamic nation. She would then be burned with fire, and if the Vatican fell, then that domino could make all others fall or become extremely weak as there would be no more government and pope. The wine could be her doctrine and she makes the whole world drunk on that. How widespread is the Trinity Doctrine and Christmas. I would say many times bigger than the whole of Islam. Being a mother of harlots also could be seen as the denominations that split from her.

Don't quote me on any of this as I am being purely hypothetical. Things often turn out the way you think not anyway.

[Author]

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