Who will Christ and his Saints be ruling over?

[journey42]

Quote (Pastry @ Dec. 21 2011,03:21)

journey42

Again, you are avoiding my question.

Are you telling me, that these next scriptures only apply to Israel?

Jhn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

Jhn 5:29 And shall come forth;…

No
George, these scriptures do not even apply to Israel. These scriptures apply to only the saints (John 5:24-26)

then the vision> fast forwards to John 5:28-29

We know this is talking about after the 1000 years, because it is revealed in Rev 20:11-15. This is the judgement of everybody else.

Go back a little
Rev 20
* Satan bound for a thousand years
* Saints live and reign with Christ for a thousand years.
* After the 1000 years, Satan is let loose
* Satan gathers his armies to attack the holy camp
* Satan destroyed and thrown into lake of fire
* The dead judged according to the books, according to their works
* Death and hell cast into the lake of fire (2nd death)
* Everything dead gone. Forever.
* New Jerusalem comes down.

If not for revelations to make it clear, I would think along your lines too, that it's all happening at the same time. But it's not. The scriptures have to harmonise.

These verses have nothing to do with Israel being raised up in the flesh. It's all in ezekiel 37. Explained clearly. Did you read it yet?

[Wakeup]

Hi guys:
Let me try get things clear if i can.

Lazarus was not resurected,but he was revived; He died again.The saints that came out of their graves at the cucifixion and went to the city: They are not resurected,but brought back to life,in the flesh,they die again.
The resurection is when one is change in spirit:

The bible mentions 2 resurection,the first resurection consist of,the FIRST FRIUT, the 144000,they are them that had the seal of God rev7. They are them that follow the Lamb wheresoever he goes,never contaminated with women(false religion) never bowed to any false image or kissed any false image.

The rest of christians that dont follow christ where so ever he goes: most of them lip worshippers,one foot in babylon and the other foot in zion.These are the majority,and they will have to make a decision,before the coming,to take the mark of the beast or to reject the mark,many will take the mark because the churches will preach that it is fine to take the mark.The ones that have manage to reject the mark will be persecuted by the false prophet,some killed.
He who will save his life will loose it and he who will loose his life for my sake will find it.

The ones that manage to reject the mark,now will be given white robes,for they were not white before.rev.7:14.
and the ones that are alive without the mark will be changed in a twinkling of an eye.THIS IS THE FIRST RESURECTION.
THE REST OF THE DEAD WILL STAY IN THEIR GRAVES,WAITING FOR THE SECOND RESURECTION.After the 1000 yrs,when ALL THE DEAD PAST PRESENT AND FURE,muslims, hindus,bhudist, all of them will be resurected in the flesh to be judged acording to their works. have they done good in their life or have they been bad.They are not judged according to christ teachings,because they have never known christ teachings; they are hindoes,or krishnas.
They will be seperated;the sheep on the right,and the goats on the left,the sheep will be accepted in the kingdom and the goats cast into the lake of fire.THIS IS THE SECOND AND LAST RESURECTION.After satan and all his followers are destroyed.

Now concerning the israelites that God has reserved;every generation God has some israelites elected to be brought back again in their land,not resurected but brought back to life again;(revived) Just like lazarus was not resurected but brought back to life.Remember the dry bones in ezekiel.ch37.
Jesus as king of kings will rule and his resurected saints with him,and teach the israelites for a 1000yrs.and the teachings will go out from isreal into the four corners of the earth,(these are the remnant of the gentiles that survived the destruction of babylon). and they all will learn the truth,and
their childrens children.
Knowledge will cover the earth as the sea cover the earth.

The 1000yrs reign, the kingdom(paradise) will be in israel,jerusalem the city of God.For the flesh, it is paradise,no tears no pain no wars,animals dont bite the lion will eat straw.
but for the resurected in spirit they have inherited Gods kingdom,they can go up to heaven,and down to earth,like the angels. And they will whisper in their ears(the flesh)go left, go right.Just as the angels are doing now.

And when the preaching for a 1000yrs is done, there still will be many that refuse to hear; and do things their own way; Now is the time for satan to be let loose from his prison,and he will gather them from the four corners of the earth and compassed the camp of the saints(the kingdom),because God has put it in his heart,to bring them evil ones together in one place,and fire will come down from God and that is the end of satan and his followers.

Dont forget after this happens,then the 2nd resurection of all the dead past present and future,of all kinds of religion.

1.the first friuts
2.resurection of all christians that have rejected the mark
3.kingdom set up,the israelites remnant in the flesh.(brought back)
4.Preachings goes on for 1000yrs,also to all the remnant of the gentiles(war survivers).
5.satan let loose he starts to gather all his people.
6.satan and all his followers destroyed.
7.the second resurection,judged by the books(works)
8.The earth itself is still polutted,with all the left overs of babylon,the tempels,piramids,the cities under the earth, under the sea,the sun and the moon and the planets have been worshipped by men; all will be melted,then the new heaven and the new earth.(Thy will be done on earth as in heaven)
9.Jesus will hand his kingdom to his father; Holy jerusalem prepared AS a bride will come down to earth.Then God himself will dwell amongst us and we can see him face to face.Amen.

Greetings from wakeup.
the resurected in a spirit body

[Pastry]

journey42

Why did you leave out these scriptures?

1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

They were included in my question; you make me feel like a dentist

Georg

[Pastry]

Wakeup

Explain to us why you believe what you believe, because you make no sense.

Scriptures would help.

Georg

[Marlin1]

Wakeup,

I agree with some of what you wrote, Tell me, who are they that are spoke of in 1 Thes 4:15-17
Who will raise?
Which Resurrection 1 or 2?
Who are they that are still alive and will be changed in a split second of time?

Marlin

[journey42]

Quote (Pastry @ Dec. 22 2011,03:19)

journey42

Why did you leave out these scriptures?

1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Georg
The first man Adam was flesh, we humans like Adam die.
The second Adam is Christ, Not that same Adam, but like Christ we will be resurrected. Simple.

All who believe in Christ will be resurrected at his coming.

2Corinth 15:23 But EVERY MAN in his OWN ORDER: Christ the firstfruits (144,000); afterward they that are Christs AT HIS COMING. (the rest of the saints)

>fast forward…..

2Corinth 15:24 Then COMES THE END, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father, when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

<rewind……

2Corinth 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet (1000 years)

Why do I make you feel like a dentist? I don't get it?

[Pastry]

journey42

Because you make me pull teeth.

Where do you read that “all” who believe in Christ will be resurrected at his coming?

Sorry, you are to confused; and since you have no interest in trying to understand; I'm signing off.

Georg

[Marlin1]

Journey42,

Hi brother,  you said, All who believe in Christ will be resurrected at his coming.

Tell me where does it say that.  I know it says many are called, few are chosen.  I also know that many people believe that just make a decision for Christ and it is all over.  Do whatever you want.

I tell you the truth, that is one of the biggest lies that is taught by the churches.

Marlin

[terraricca]

Quote (journey42 @ Dec. 23 2011,01:38)

Pastry,Dec. wrote: [/quote] journey42 Why did you leave out these scriptures? 1Cr 15:22   For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. Georg The first man Adam was flesh, we humans like Adam die. The second Adam is Christ, Not that same Adam, but like Christ we will be resurrected. Simple. All who believe in Christ will be resurrected at his coming. 2Corinth 15:23   But EVERY MAN in his OWN ORDER:  Christ the firstfruits (144,000); afterward they that are Christs AT HIS COMING. (the rest of the saints) >fast forward….. 2Corinth 15:24   Then COMES THE END, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father, when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. <rewind…… 2Corinth 15:25   For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet (1000 years) Why do I make you feel like a dentist?  I don't get it?

42

1Co 15:23 But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

Rev 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection.

The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

Rev 20:7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison
Rev 20:8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.
Rev 20:9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
Rev 20:13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.
Rev 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
Rev 20:15 If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

1Co 15:28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
Rev 21:2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.
Rev 21:4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Rev 21:5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
Rev 21:6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life.

this is the way I understand it

Pierre

[toby]

Hi Journey42.

This is the way I see it:

The “millenium” is now.
The 'thousand years' are symbolic – as most of Revelations is.
'One thousand' is 'thousands of years' – Christ till now.
Satan has been bound.  
The binding was symbolic for restraining/limiting in power.
Restrained – so that the good news of the coming Kingdom, can go around the world.
Soon – if not already – Satan will be let lose one last time,
and the nations will be deceived (so be careful).
Jesus will return.  
Unbelievers, sinners, liars and all decievers, will be 'ashes' under the soles of the feet of true believers, and the ETERNAL Kingdom of God will be here!
This is truth – as I see it.
Please consider, as there could be a very DRAMATIC FALSE return of Jesus.
However the TRUE return of Jesus will be the end.

Matthew 24 and Rev 19 match.  They talk about the same thing:

“If any one says to you, `Lo, here is the Christ!' or `There he is!' do not believe it.
For false Christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
Lo, I have told you beforehand.
So, if they say to you, `Lo, he is in the wilderness,' do not go out; if they say, `Lo, he is in the inner rooms,' do not believe it.
For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of man.
Wherever the body is(Bodies are), there the eagles will be gathered together. ” – Matt 24.

“Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly in midheaven,
“Come, gather for the great supper of God, to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, both small and great.” – Rev 19.

And heres just a few more verses:

“You know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.“
“But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.” – 1st Thess 5.

“The day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.” – 2nd Peter 3.

(“Lo, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is he who is awake, keeping his garments that he may not go naked and be seen exposed!”) – Rev 16.

“For behold, the day comes, burning like an oven, when all the arrogant and all evildoers will be stubble; the day that comes shall burn them up, says the LORD of hosts, so that it will leave them neither root nor branch.
But for you who fear my name the sun of righteousness shall rise, with healing in its wings.
You shall go forth leaping like calves from the stall.
And you shall tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet, on the day when I act, says the LORD of hosts.” – Malachi 4.

“King Nebuchadnez'zar was astonished and rose up in haste. He said to his counselors, “Did we not cast three men bound into the fire?” They answered the king, “True, O king.”
He answered, “But I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they are not hurt; and the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the gods.“
Then Nebuchadnez'zar came near to the door of the burning fiery furnace and said, “Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed'nego, servants of the Most High God, come forth, and come here!” Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed'nego came out from the fire.
And the satraps, the prefects, the governors, and the king's counselors gathered together and saw that the fire had not had any power over the bodies of those men; the hair of their heads was not singed, their mantles were not harmed, and no smell of fire had come upon them.” – Daniel 3.

That's all I have to say for now.
Merry Christmas everyone

[mikeboll64]

Hi Toby,

And welcome to HN.  I really enjoyed your post.  I have never thought of it the way you understand it, with “today” being in the midst of the millenial reign.

A lot of things clicked in my head while thinking about what you said, like why isn't demonic possession as evident today as it was in Jesus' time on earth?  It seems like one of three people were possessed in Jesus' day.  

Could this be because Satan has been temporarily bound like you say?

I have been studying scripture for only three years now, and when it comes to the prophesies of future events, I'm definitely on milk, and not even close to solid food.

So let me just say, as one who doesn't know as much about this as the others who are posting in this thread, I am intrigued by your understanding.

peace,
mike

[Marlin1]

Pierre,

I believe we believe this the same, may I ask you.

Who are those Rev 20:4 Seated? and those beheaded?

Thanks
Marlin

[Marlin1]

Toby,

A nice read, but I don't think you have much scripture for what you believe.
\
Have a nice Holiday
Marlin

[terraricca]

Quote (Marlin1 @ Dec. 23 2011,18:07)

Pierre, I believe we believe this the same,  may I ask you. Who are those Rev 20:4  Seated?  and those beheaded? Thanks Marlin

Marlin1

Rev 7:3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.”
Rev 7:4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

Rev 14:1 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.
Rev 14:2 And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps.
Rev 14:3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
Rev 14:4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.

1Co 15:23 But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

REV 1:6 and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father— to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.
REV 5:10 “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.”

REV 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Rev 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge

1)Who are those Rev 20:4  Seated?2)  and those beheaded?

1) answer;1CO 6:3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life?

2)Rev 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

here pay attention to what it says in the last part ;They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.;;ALL THOSE SOULS CAME TO DO TWO THINGS ;1) TO LIVE AND 2) TO REIGNED AND SO BOTH ARE IN THE 1000 YEARS BUT NOT DOING THE SAME THING,

SO THE ANSWER IS THAT THOSE ARE ALL THE TRUE CHRISTIANS WHO DIED SINS CHRIST DEAD,AND IT COULD ALSO INCLUDED THOSE OF THE PAST,

SO FIRST FRUITS = 144K — THEN THOSE WHO BELONG TO CHRIST ;THIS IS REV;20 ;4 THE SOULS OF THOSE BEHEADED ,

So let see ,Christ with his 144k redeemed from the earth ;are in heaven and are now spirit beings like Christ,
they will judge all things under Christ,

then ;THOSE WHO BELONG TO CHRIST; within those some will be called to reign and some will be living with on the earth just as we do now but in God renewed arrangement's,

Pierre

[Marlin1]

Pierre,

Thanks for your answer.  I see you have this group being the 144,000 Jews of the 12 tribes.

I see this slightly different then you.  I see this group as the bride of Christ, mainly Gentile.
These are the only ones to be raised until the 1000 years is over.  And also if you noticed in Rev 20:4. They rained with Christ for the whole 1000 years, so they were with Him from the start. And that they had a testimony of Jesus.

The 144,000 Jews of which some were under the altar in Rev 6,
REV 6:9 † And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 † And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 † And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

You see this group had a testimony, but not of Jesus and they wanted revenge.  These are of the 144,000 Jews, a different group.  The Bride of Christ would never want revenge, would they.  And this group will have to wait for the rest of their brethren to be killed.

Revelations talks of three different groups.  The Bride (10000 * 10000 Rev 5), The nominal church (multitude that could not be numbered Rev 7), and the 144,000 (natural Jew Rev 6&7).
Only the bride will be raised, until the end of the 1000 years.  

I know that many believe that others will be raised during the 1000 years, There just isn't scripture for it.
Zec speaks of a group that will be left and they will multiply over the 1000 years, we will rule over them with Christ.

This is the way I see it my brother.
Marlin

[terraricca]

Quote (Marlin1 @ Dec. 24 2011,10:18)

Pierre, Thanks for your answer.  I see you have this group being the 144,000 Jews of the 12 tribes. I see this slightly different then you.  I see this group as the bride of Christ, mainly Gentile. These are the only ones to be raised until the 1000 years is over.  And also if you noticed in Rev 20:4. They rained with Christ for the whole 1000 years, so they were with Him from the start. And that they had a testimony of Jesus. The 144,000 Jews of which some were under the altar in Rev 6, REV 6:9 † And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 † And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 † And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. You see this group had a testimony, but not of Jesus and they wanted revenge.  These are of the 144,000 Jews, a different group.  The Bride of Christ would never want revenge, would they.  And this group will have to wait for the rest of their brethren to be killed. Revelations talks of three different groups.  The Bride (10000 * 10000 Rev 5), The nominal church (multitude that could not be numbered Rev 7), and the 144,000 (natural Jew Rev 6&7). Only the bride will be raised, until the end of the 1000 years.   I know that many believe that others will be raised during the 1000 years, There just isn't scripture for it. Zec speaks of a group that will be left and they will multiply over the 1000 years, we will rule over them with Christ. This is the way I see it my brother. Marlin

mARLIN

ONE QUESTION how many are redeemed of the earth

Pierre

[Marlin1]

Pierre,

I am sorry brother, I don't understand your question. Could you rephrase or explain your question.

Marlin

[terraricca]

Quote (Marlin1 @ Dec. 24 2011,10:46)

Pierre, I am sorry brother, I don't understand your question.  Could you rephrase or explain your question. Marlin

Marlin

scriptures are saying that there his only 144k that are redeemed from the earth ,and so those are the bride ,those are the brothers of Christ ,

every body else his for the earth,

Pierre

[terraricca]

Marlin

Quote

You see this group had a testimony, but not of Jesus and they wanted revenge. These are of the 144,000 Jews, a different group. The Bride of Christ would never want revenge, would they. And this group will have to wait for the rest of their brethren to be killed.

do you know the difference between revenge and justice ??

Pierre

[Marlin1]

Pierre,

If that be the case, How do reconcile the 5th seal(These want revenge) and Rev 7, that these are Jews of the 12 tribes.

Marlin

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