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Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 07 2009,07:17) Jodi Lee said: Quote I have said numerous times that the Father created heaven and earth because of Christ and for Christ.
You keep changing Jodi. And you are still out of accord with ALL the translations. Give me a good reason why I should disregard EVERY TRANSLATION ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH.
Every translation says “through” and “for” or “by” and “for.” Yet you want me to just accept your “because of” and “for” idea. 
Btw, Proverbs 16:4 says that all things were created FOR YHWH.
Quote YHWH has made all FOR Himself,
Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.
Chew on this for a while. If YHWH made all things FOR Himself, then how could all things have been made FOR Christ if Christ is not YHWH?The word “firstborn” simply means “supreme” (Colossians 1:15-18).
thinker
I have NEVER changed what I have said, I think the problem is you have a hard time hearing, you hear only what you want to hear and you see only what you want to see, and the truth is far from you because of it. I showed how dias from the lexicon said dias and dias, but I never explained that to be a repetition of the same meaning to the same word, I have always said through and for.
Words have MORE then one meaning. The word THROUGH is NO exception.
The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 1223 Browse Lexicon
Original WordWord Origin
diava primary preposition denoting the channel of an act
Transliterated WordTDNT Entry
Dia2:65,149
Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech
dee-ah' Preposition
Definition1. through
1. of place
1. with
2. in
2. of time
1. throughout
2. during
3. of means
1. by
2. by the means of
2. through
1. the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
1. by reason of
2. on account of
3. because of for this reason
4. therefore
5. on this accountKing James Word Usage – Total: 646
by 241, through 88, with 16, for 58, for … sake 47, therefore + (5124)&version=kjv 44, for this cause + (5124) 14, because 52, miscellaneous 86You say that the Father created heaven and earth through having his god son do it with the god son's hands. You equate THROUGH with by the means of.
The problem is that the text does not say god son, it says Jesus Christ, and I take that to mean what it says, Jesus Christ, the MAN born of Mary of the seed of David. I equate through with by reason of.
Our heavenly Father created heaven and earth through (by reason of) CHRIST, Christ IS not and never was a god son, he is the MAN born of the seed of David, that was promised to come before time began.
Scripture tells us that Jesus is STILL a man and that he is returning and the Kingdom is his to rule over, restoring earth with peace and bringing eternal life.
Our Heavenly Father is an individual that loves to design and create, and He seeks order, achievement and glory in that which He constructs. He made heaven and earth for Himself under those reasons. He didn't make it ALL JUST for Himself though, He also made if for MAN, for a creature made in His own image who also loves to design, create and obtain achievement.
YHWH created us for Himself but He also of course created us for ourselves, just like when we have children it is for ourselves but also it's so we can give life to someone else.
Jodi lee said:
Quote I showed how dias from the lexicon said dias and dias, but I never explained that to be a repetition of the same meaning to the same word, I have always said through and for.
Jodi Lee,
Your source is wrong UNTIL you produce an actual Greek text which says “dias” and “dias.” I produced a Greek text which contradicts your lexicon. The Greek text says “di' ” and “eis.” You have indeed explained it to be a repetition of the same meaning to the same word up until now. And the explanation you give now is contradicted by ALL the translations. There is no translation which supports your new “because of” and “for” explanation. The translations read “through” meaning “by agency” and “for.”Jodi Lee:
Quote Words have MORE then one meaning. The word THROUGH is NO exception.
This is about the meaning YOU assign to “dia” in Colossians 1:16. The context will not allow your interpretation. Verse 17 goes on to say that in Him all things “consist.” This means that Jesus is the “moment by moment sustainer and unifying power of the universe”(Reformation Study Bible note, p. 1886).Hebrews 1 clearly says that all things were created “through” Him amd that all things are held together by the word of HIS POWER.
Jodi Lee:
Quote The problem is that the text does not say god son, it says Jesus Christ, and I take that to mean what it says, Jesus Christ, the MAN born of Mary of the seed of David. I equate through with by reason of. First, Hebrews 1 CLEARLY says that the Son is called “God” by the Father. We have been over this so many times that I do not need to cite the text. It says also that the Father Himself attributed the creation to the Son's own hands. Second, He was Jesus the Christ BEFORE He was born of Mary. Paul said that the Christ Jesus CAME into the world to save sinners. Therefore, He pre-existed.
Jodi Lee:
Quote Scripture tells us that Jesus is STILL a man and that he is returning and the Kingdom is his to rule over, restoring earth with peace and bringing eternal life. No! It is Jodi Lee who tells us that Jesus is still a man. Paul says that He became spirit again. He no longer dwells in flesh and blood.
1 Corinthians 15:
Quote It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear[c] the image of the heavenly Man.50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
Summary of Paul's thesis:
1. The immortal body is spiritual
2.The second man became a life giving spirit
3. We also will become spirit in the IMAGE of the second man
4. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Therefore, the kingdom of God in it immortal essence is altogether spiritualIn 2 corinthians Paul said that these bodies of dust are “tents” which means that they are temporary. We are awaiting our spiritual bodies from heaven (2 Cor. 4:16-5:5). When Christ appeared to Paul on the road to Damascus He did NOT appear as a man. He appeared in the brightness of His true and spiritual essence which blinded Paul and would have utterly consumed Him had it not been contained. Christ destroys men by the “brightness” of His coming.
He is NOT a man now. If Christ is still a man now then He must have a sex organ. We know this is not possible for Jesus said that we will be AS THE ANGELS.
thinker
Jodi
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Oct. 06 2009,17:29)
I showed how dias from the lexicon said dias and dias, but I never explained that to be a repetition of the same meaning to the same word, I have always said through and for.
What lexicon, for it is not in the Greek text! Please show us where your source is that says “dia” and “dia”.WJ
Thinker………..So when Jesus said “WHEN THE SON OF MAN RETURNS WILL HE FIND FAITH” He really did not mean that right, because in you theology He is no longer a son of man, but an invisible Spirit being of some kind right? seems you and Jesus has a different view. You also disagree with Jesus when He said A SPIRIT does not have flesh and bone as you see i have. That same body went through a door and disappeared and reappeared. IMO
gene
Quote (Gene @ Oct. 07 2009,12:34) Thinker………..So when Jesus said “WHEN THE SON OF MAN RETURNS WILL HE FIND FAITH” He really did not mean that right, because in you theology He is no longer a son of man, but an invisible Spirit being of some kind right? seems you and Jesus has a different view. You also disagree with Jesus when He said A SPIRIT does not have flesh and bone as you see i have. That same body went through a door and disappeared and reappeared. IMO gene
Gene,
I have said over and over again that Jesus became spirit when He ascended to heaven. Paul said that Jesus became a “life giving SPIRIT.” What are we going to do with sex organs in heaven Gene? If we still eat then we will need toilets. Are there toilets in heaven Gene?thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 06 2009,11:20) Hi TT,
ADVOCATE or WITNESS??They are alternative scriptural options shown in my bible.
Many beings or even things can be witnesses.
Best to not build to high lest your foundation be found insecure.
Witness! Just because other bible translators came along and changed it, doesn't make it so.Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 06 2009,12:17) Jodi Lee said: Quote I have said numerous times that the Father created heaven and earth because of Christ and for Christ.
You keep changing Jodi. And you are still out of accord with ALL the translations. Give me a good reason why I should disregard EVERY TRANSLATION ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH. Every translation says “through” and “for” or “by” and “for.” Yet you want me to just accept your “because of” and “for” idea. Btw, Proverbs 16:4 says that all things were created FOR YHWH.
Quote YHWH has made all FOR Himself,
Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.
Chew on this for a while. If YHWH made all things FOR Himself, then how could all things have been made FOR Christ if Christ is not YHWH?The word “firstborn” simply means “supreme” (Colossians 1:15-18).
thinker
Giving pre-eminece to his firstborn son in no way takes anything away from himself.No different than if I give my son my company buisness. I built the company, I gave him my company, it was all for me.
You put limits upon God.
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 07 2009,13:45) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 06 2009,11:20) Hi TT,
ADVOCATE or WITNESS??They are alternative scriptural options shown in my bible.
Many beings or even things can be witnesses.
Best to not build to high lest your foundation be found insecure.
Witness! Just because other bible translators came along and changed it, doesn't make it so.
Hi CON,
Was there manuscript variation?
Different bibles are based on different manuscriptsQuote (Jodi Lee @ Oct. 03 2009,05:02) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 02 2009,05:09) Jodi Lee: Quote you said, “Then there is the problem in Colossians 1:16. Paul said that “all things were created through Him and for Him.”
If “through” meant “for” as you say then Paul said this: “All things were created for Him and for Him.” This makes no sense! It is clear that Paul meant that all things were created by agency of Him and for Him. To say that Paul meant that all things were created “for” Him and “for” Him is ludicrous.”Take a look at the originally text, the SAME word is used,
Col 1:16 Dias him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created dias him, and dias him:
This is the height of your deceit Jodi. The words are NOT “dias” and “dias” but “dia” and “eis.”Quote …all things were created di' him, and eis him: I wish you would not have done this. I am forced now to seriously doubt that you are honest. Giving you the benefit of the doubt from here on will be quite difficult for me. Paul said “dia” and “eis.” Be advised that I took two years of Greek in college so don't do this again.
Paul did not say that “all things were created for Him and for Him.” This is total nonsense. He said that all things were created THROUGH (dia) Him and FOR (eis) Him.
Jodi lee:
Quote You cannot take the word Christ and turn it to mean a pre-existent god son, could you seriously be anymore antichrist?
Take it up with the apostle Paul and God the Father (Hebrews 1).You have just called most anti-trinitarians here antichrist. You need to take the beam out of your own eye. You have been manipulating language to fit your Gnostic presuppositions.Now you have gone so far as to deceitfully substitute a word in the Greek text.
thinker
When I quote scripture I use crosswalk. com. When I look up translations I use the Lexicon they have there.I AM NOT a DECEITFUL person.
However, I could care less if you think I am, you are under such delusion, that it would make complete sense that you would think I was.
http://www.biblestudytools.com/Lexicon….it=Find
http://www.biblestudytools.com/Lexicon….ion=kjv
http://www.biblestudytools.com/Lexicon….ion=kjv
KJV Verse Count
Greek Word: Diav
Transliterated Word: dia
Book to Display: Colossians
Verse Count: 14
Col 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother,
Col 1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Col 2:19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
Col 4:3 Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds:
Col 4:18 The salutation by the hand of me Paul. Remember my bonds. Grace be with you. Amen.What I posted was based on the above, which is PROOF that I have done NO such deceitful thing as you accuse me of.
Jack please LOOK at the above post as well as the other two that follow.Quote (Jodi Lee @ Oct. 03 2009,05:17) We should as well take a look at the following so there is NO confusion, Concerning the word 'eis'
http://www.biblestudytools.com/Lexicon….it=Find
http://www.biblestudytools.com/Lexicon….ion=kjv
http://www.biblestudytools.com/Lexicon….ion=kjv
KJV Verse Count
Greek Word: Eijß
Transliterated Word: eis
Book to Display: Colossians
Verse Count: 18
Col 1:4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,
Col 1:6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
Col 1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
Col 1:11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
Col 1:29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
Col 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
Col 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.
Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Col 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
Col 4:8 Whom I have sent unto you for the same purpose, that he might know your estate, and comfort your hearts;
Col 4:11 And Jesus, which is called Justus, who are of the circumcision. These only are my fellowworkers unto the kingdom of God, which have been a comfort unto me.When I made my post, the one that Jack accused me of deceitfully substituting words, I had only looked up the word 'through'. I just found the following NOW, after looking up the word 'for'.
If you go to the links you will see the confusion…..the word 'through' is shown to come from dias when you look up 'dias', but when you look up 'eis” through is also there. The same word is shown to be originally 'dias' and 'eis' in the exact same place in the scripture…….are you following me here?Quote (Jodi Lee @ Oct. 03 2009,05:47) Strong's Number: 1223 Browse Lexicon
Original WordWord Origin
diava primary preposition denoting the channel of an act
Transliterated WordTDNT Entry
Dia2:65,149
Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech
dee-ah' Preposition
Definition1. through
1. of place
1. with
2. in
2. of time
1. throughout
2. during
3. of means
1. by
2. by the means of
2. through
1. the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
1.by reason of
2. on account of
3. because of for this reason
4. therefore
5. on this accountKing James Word Usage – Total: 646
by 241, through 88, with 16, for 58, for … sake 47, therefore + (5124)&version=kjv 44, for this cause + (5124) 14, because 52, miscellaneous 86=========================================
Strong's Number: 1519 Browse Lexicon
Original WordWord Origin
eij?a primary preposition
Transliterated WordTDNT Entry
Eis2:420,211
Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech
ice Preposition
Definition1. into, unto, to, towards, for, among
“For” (as used in Acts 2:38 “for the forgiveness…”) could have twomeanings. If you saw a poster saying “Jesse James wanted forrobbery”, “for” could mean Jesse is wanted so he can commit arobbery, or is wanted because he has committed a robbery. The latersense is the correct one. So too in this passage, the word “for”signifies an action in the past. Otherwise, it would violate theentire tenor of the NT teaching on salvation by grace and not by works.
King James Word Usage – Total: 1774
into 573, to 281, unto 207, for 140, in 138, on 58, toward 29, against 26, miscellaneous 322Colossians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother, 2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, 4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints, 5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; 6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth: 7 As ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ; 8 Who also declared unto us your love in the Spirit.
9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 2
BY REASON OF the comming CHRIST, the man born of the seed of David, were all things created! The above scripture mentions NOTHING of a god son creating heaven and earth himself for himself. YHWH created heaven and earth by/through, or rather BY REASON OF, the coming Christ, and YHWH created it FOR the coming Christ! It pleased the FATHER that in CHRIST, the man firstborn of the dead, THAT ALL THE FULLNESS SHOULD DWELL!
What truly matters in all this, is the FACT that the word THROUGH has a meaning of BY REASON OF, and BECAUSE OF FOR THIS REASON.Our Heavenly Father created heaven and earth by reason of Jesus Christ, whom He planned to come forth as our savior before time began.
Jesus Christ means Jesus Christ….the man born of Mary with the genes of David, of whom was promised to come before time began. To teach that Jesus Christ does not ACTUALLY mean Jesus Christ but some god son…IMO is very bad inference.
Hi Jodi,
Jesus is the son of God and not of the genes of David but his son according to the flesh by adoption.Jodi lee said;
Quote What truly matters in all this, is the FACT that the word THROUGH has a meaning of BY REASON OF, and BECAUSE OF FOR THIS REASON. Our Heavenly Father created heaven and earth by reason of Jesus Christ, whom He planned to come forth as our savior before time began.
Jodi,
Check your source again. The word “dia” also means “by means of.” And your rendering “because of” means “by means of.” All things were created “because of” Him as the source. Verse 17 says that IN Him all things consist. There is no possible way you can dance around this one. If He was not pre-existent then how did all things hold together before Him?btw, I took back the “deceitful” accusation and even apologized. Did you see that post? Are you now conceding that it is “di” and “eis?”
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 08 2009,05:53) Hi Jodi,
Jesus is the son of God and not of the genes of David but his son according to the flesh by adoption.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 26 2009,10:38) Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 26 2009,09:43) Jodi Lee
You say that things are getting “embarassing” for me. This is a curious statement coming from one who claims that she set up her baby's room “through” her baby.
thinker
DEFINITION of THROUGH,2 —used as a function word to indicate means, agency, or intermediacy: as a : by means of : by the agency of b : because of
USE your Thesaurus with the word THROUGH and you will find, 'because of'
Also as I showed earlier,
Transliterated WordTDNT Entry
Dia2:65,149
Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech
dee-ah'
Preposition
Definition
1.through
a.of place
1.with
2.in
b.of time
1.throughout
2.during
c.of means
1.by
2.by the means of
2.through
a.the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
1.by reason of
2.on account of
3.because of for this reason
4.therefore
5.on this account
King James Word Usage – Total: 646 by 241, through 88, with 16, for 58, for … sake 47, therefore + (5124)&version=kjv 44, for this cause + (5124) 14, because 52, miscellaneous 86Having this knowledge that you apparently LACKED Jack, there should be no longer a misunderstanding that if I say I created a nursery through Molly, you should be able to understand that it can mean the SAME thing as me saying I created a nursery FOR Molly, or BECAUSE OF Molly!
It was at the translators leisure to translate the word in the bible 'dia', however they saw fit. When they used the word 'through' they could have just as well used 'for', or 'because of' instead.
2Ti 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
The heavenly MAN Jesus, our lord and Christ, is the future King of heaven and earth, not a god son. YHWH ALONE created heaven and earth and He did it for and because of the Son whom He'd know He'd make.
Jack you said, “Your source is wrong UNTIL you produce an actual Greek text which says “dias” and “dias.” I produced a Greek text which contradicts your lexicon. The Greek text says “di' ” and “eis.” You have indeed explained it to be a repetition of the same meaning to the same word up until now. And the explanation you give now is contradicted by ALL the translations. There is no translation which supports your new “because of” and “for” explanation. The translations read “through” meaning “by agency” and “for.”So Jack are you a LIAR, or just forgetful and confused?
My first post in relation to THROUGH I stated that YHWH created heaven and earth FOR and BECAUSE OF His Son, Jesus Christ.
I explained to you yesterday how FOR and BECAUSE OF have two separate meanings, and from that post we can see how those two separate meanings are actually quite rather significant.
As I mentioned earlier, it is clear that you can only see what you want to see for the DEFINITION of THROUGH does in FACT include “by reason of, or because of for this reason”
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 08 2009,06:13) Jodi lee said; Quote What truly matters in all this, is the FACT that the word THROUGH has a meaning of BY REASON OF, and BECAUSE OF FOR THIS REASON. Our Heavenly Father created heaven and earth by reason of Jesus Christ, whom He planned to come forth as our savior before time began.
Jodi,
Check your source again. The word “dia” also means “by means of.” And your rendering “because of” means “by means of.” All things were created “because of” Him as the source. Verse 17 says that IN Him all things consist. There is no possible way you can dance around this one. If He was not pre-existent then how did all things hold together before Him?btw, I took back the “deceitful” accusation and even apologized. Did you see that post? Are you now conceding that it is “di” and “eis?”
thinker
Yes, I saw that post and I appreciate your apology, thank you.I thought that it was evident that I conceded when I posted the post on 'eis', showing the confusion.
dia/ a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act
Transliterated WordPhonetic Spelling
Dia dee-ah'
Parts of SpeechTDNT
Preposition 2:65,149
Definition1. through
1. of place
1. with
2. in
2. of time
1. throughout
2. during
3. of means
1. by
2. by the means of
2. through
1. the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
1. by reason of
2. on account of
3. because of for this reason
4. therefore
5. on this accountTranslated Words
KJV (646) – because, 52; by, 241; for, 58; for … sake, 47; for this cause + (5124), 14; misc, 86; therefore + (5124), 44; through, 88; with, 16;What you need to concede is that the word through has more then one meaning and does in fact mean 'by reason of'.
Jodi lee said;
Quote What you need to concede is that the word through has more then one meaning and does in fact mean 'by reason of'. My family eats by reason of me so you prove nothing. Your word parsing is getting ridiculous. Let's move on.
Verse 17 says that IN Christ all things are held together. Therefore, He was pre-existent. Consequently, He was the AGENT in creation and by reason of means by agency of. My family eats by reason of me. I am the agent or means. Stop this nonsensical hair splitting. It's gotten old.
I do not concede your conclusions.
I have a bad headache today so this is all for today.
thinker
Hi Jodi Lee,
I really appreciate the logical insights you've provided in previous posts with this topic. Thanks for giving me this additional material to consider in regards to Jesus's origin from the book of Colossians.
Cheerfully yours,
Patrick
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