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Quote (942767 @ Aug. 15 2013,11:55) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 16 2013,03:34) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 12 2013,20:53) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 12 2013,12:59) I believe they are One God and One Spirit as the scriptures claim.
Actually,You believe that the Son, Servant, Messiah, Lamb, Prophet and Priest OF our one and only Most High God actually IS the very God he is all these things OF.
And you have the gall to say “LOL” to us?
What are you saying Mike?That God is not almighty enough to come in the likeness of sinful flesh and be all those things?
Are not all things possible to him?
WJ
Hi WJ:Of course, God is able to do this, and as you say there is nothing to hard for Him to do, but He said that He sent His “Only Begotten Son”. The scriptures state that His Son came in the likeness of sinful flesh, but it does not state that God Himself came in the likeness of sinful flesh, does it?
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyJohn 1:1, 14, and 18 and Phil 2:6-8.
You don't have to agree with my interpretation which agrees with most forefathers scholars and Christians. But nevertheless I have scripture.
Jesus was and is “Emmanuel” God with us and the Mighty God and our Great God and Savior as scripture declares.
Blessings
WJ
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 14 2013,19:24) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 13 2013,08:59) LOL You guys are to funny.
You guys believe and and bow down to and serve 2 gods, the Father who you say is god and Jesus who you say is a god.
When you laugh, do so while looking in the mirror and take a good hard look at what manner of man you are.To correct your bearing false witness of what we believe, I will assume that you are either incompetent to teach and understand matters of faith that we talk of, or you do this on purpose because you need to attack the character of the person because you cannot attack the teaching itself.
Either way, you should not be a teacher. You will incur judgement for false teaching WJ.
Here is the correction and please pay attention. We don't really want to hear your misconception or lies again.
We serve the Father as God.
We serve Jesus as the son of God.That makes one God and one son. Simple.
Whereas you serve the Father, Son, and Spirit as God.
You serve 3 as God.Take the log out of your eye WJ.
Repent for the end draws near.At some point, repentance will not be available to you as with me. Repent while you can.
Not a very good score t8.
WJ
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 15 2013,14:41) Quote (david @ Aug. 14 2013,22:09) Quote The definition of polytheism is “The worship of or belief in more than one god.” Does the bible anywhere condemn “belief in more than one god.”?
Wj, you believe in Jesus, who you would call god
You believe in the father, who you would call god.
Some would say that makes you a polytheist.The bible does condemn the worship of other gods.
Jehovah rebukes the invoking and bowing down to other gods. The disciples do all in the name of Jesus…that is 'invoking' a god. All will bow down to Jesus…that is bowing down to a god.Keith and I believe that Jesus and the Father and Spirit are one in the God Jehovah. Jesus is not a god other than Jehovah. If He were, then bowing down to Him and invoking His name would be a violation of what Jehovah has declared.
Amen!Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 16 2013,08:35) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 15 2013,11:55) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 16 2013,03:34) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 12 2013,20:53) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 12 2013,12:59) I believe they are One God and One Spirit as the scriptures claim.
Actually,You believe that the Son, Servant, Messiah, Lamb, Prophet and Priest OF our one and only Most High God actually IS the very God he is all these things OF.
And you have the gall to say “LOL” to us?
What are you saying Mike?That God is not almighty enough to come in the likeness of sinful flesh and be all those things?
Are not all things possible to him?
WJ
Hi WJ:Of course, God is able to do this, and as you say there is nothing to hard for Him to do, but He said that He sent His “Only Begotten Son”. The scriptures state that His Son came in the likeness of sinful flesh, but it does not state that God Himself came in the likeness of sinful flesh, does it?
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyJohn 1:1, 14, and 18 and Phil 2:6-8.
You don't have to agree with my interpretation which agrees with most forefathers scholars and Christians. But nevertheless I have scripture.
Jesus was and is “Emmanuel” God with us and the Mighty God and our Great God and Savior as scripture declares.
Blessings
WJ
No, Kieth, you do not have scripture, but as you said you have your interpretation of scripture.In the following scripture and also in Isaiah the scripture states that “his name shall be called”, it does not say that he shall be called:
Quote
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with usBut yes God was with us as the scripture states:
Quote 2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2Cr 5:18 And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Cr 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
And:
Quote Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father? Jhn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
But about the false gods, which is the discussion of this thread, I agree with what you have stated.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (kerwin @ Aug. 14 2013,22:51) Angels and humans are both called gods but clearly not in the sense of polytheism. Using logical reasoning it is clear the meaning of god in one true god is not the same meaning as when either angels or humans are called gods.
Now use the definition “mighty one” for “elohim”, Kerwin.Angels are indeed “mighty ones”, but Jehovah is the “only TRUE mighty one”.
Both uses of “mighty one” mean the exact same thing, and the words “only true” simply designate one of them as a HIGHER (or “the highest”) mighty one.
Nevertheless, the meaning of the word “elohim” remains the same.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2013,10:34) What are you saying Mike? That God is not almighty enough to come in the likeness of sinful flesh and be all those things?
Show me the scripture that says the MOST HIGH God came in the likeness of a man. Because I can show you one that says God is NOT a man, nor a SON OF MAN.So it's not a matter of what God is almighty enough to do. It's a matter of reading that God SENT His Son into the world and BELIEVING it……….. or reading those same words and then twisting them to say GOD HIMSELF CAME AS A MAN.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2013,10:34) I believe Jesus words when he says he and the Father are One!
So do I. I also believe that Jesus is very anxious for the day that we too can be one with them.The former doesn't make Jesus the God he is “one with” any more than the latter will make us the God we are “one with”.
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 15 2013,13:25) He and I worship the Father and Son and Spirit as together our God………….
God? Did you forget the “s”? Don't you worship TWO Almighty Gods, Kathi?Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 15 2013,14:03) The particular Stone that Peter identifies as Jesus in 1 Peter 2 and 3 just happens to be the Stone identified as 'Jehovah of hosts' from Isaiah 8.
Wrong.Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 15 2013,14:03) Isaiah 8 has Jehovah saying that 'Jehovah of hosts' is the Stone and Peter who calls Jesus 'Our God and Savior, Jesus Christ' identifies that 'Jehovah of hosts' as Jesus Christ.
Wrong.Now, please tell me if there was a northern kingdom of Israel and a southern kingdom of Judah when Jesus was on the earth. YES or NO?
And also tell me if Jesus is the stumbling block Jehovah LAID in Zion. YES or NO?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 16 2013,07:57) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 14 2013,22:51) Angels and humans are both called gods but clearly not in the sense of polytheism. Using logical reasoning it is clear the meaning of god in one true god is not the same meaning as when either angels or humans are called gods.
Now use the definition “mighty one” for “elohim”, Kerwin.Angels are indeed “mighty ones”, but Jehovah is the “only TRUE mighty one”.
Both uses of “mighty one” mean the exact same thing, and the words “only true” simply designate one of them as a HIGHER (or “the highest”) mighty one.
Nevertheless, the meaning of the word “elohim” remains the same.
Mike,The Koine Greek word theos does not mean mighty one and the NT was in Greek.
mighty is a descriptive word that in some way describes a god. Theos is another descriptive word that does the same.
Elohim when applied to a single entity has a different meaning than when applied to more than one.
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 16 2013,10:22) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 16 2013,07:57) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 14 2013,22:51) Angels and humans are both called gods but clearly not in the sense of polytheism. Using logical reasoning it is clear the meaning of god in one true god is not the same meaning as when either angels or humans are called gods.
Now use the definition “mighty one” for “elohim”, Kerwin.Angels are indeed “mighty ones”, but Jehovah is the “only TRUE mighty one”.
Both uses of “mighty one” mean the exact same thing, and the words “only true” simply designate one of them as a HIGHER (or “the highest”) mighty one.
Nevertheless, the meaning of the word “elohim” remains the same.
Mike,The Koine Greek word theos does not mean mighty one and the NT was in Greek.
mighty is a descriptive word that in some way describes a god. Theos is another descriptive word that does the same.
Elohim when applied to a single entity has a different meaning than when applied to more than one.
Kand what is “THEOS ” stand for
at the time of Christ ,would it be the same in Hebrew Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 16 2013,10:58) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 16 2013,10:22) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 16 2013,07:57) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 14 2013,22:51) Angels and humans are both called gods but clearly not in the sense of polytheism. Using logical reasoning it is clear the meaning of god in one true god is not the same meaning as when either angels or humans are called gods.
Now use the definition “mighty one” for “elohim”, Kerwin.Angels are indeed “mighty ones”, but Jehovah is the “only TRUE mighty one”.
Both uses of “mighty one” mean the exact same thing, and the words “only true” simply designate one of them as a HIGHER (or “the highest”) mighty one.
Nevertheless, the meaning of the word “elohim” remains the same.
Mike,The Koine Greek word theos does not mean mighty one and the NT was in Greek.
mighty is a descriptive word that in some way describes a god. Theos is another descriptive word that does the same.
Elohim when applied to a single entity has a different meaning than when applied to more than one.
Kand what is “THEOS ” stand for
at the time of Christ ,would it be the same in Hebrew
T,Elohim is sometimes translated to theos when the writers of the New Testament quoted the Old. I know of one place in Hebrews where it is translated to the Koine Greek word for messengers.
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 17 2013,00:46) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 16 2013,10:58) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 16 2013,10:22) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 16 2013,07:57) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 14 2013,22:51) Angels and humans are both called gods but clearly not in the sense of polytheism. Using logical reasoning it is clear the meaning of god in one true god is not the same meaning as when either angels or humans are called gods.
Now use the definition “mighty one” for “elohim”, Kerwin.Angels are indeed “mighty ones”, but Jehovah is the “only TRUE mighty one”.
Both uses of “mighty one” mean the exact same thing, and the words “only true” simply designate one of them as a HIGHER (or “the highest”) mighty one.
Nevertheless, the meaning of the word “elohim” remains the same.
Mike,The Koine Greek word theos does not mean mighty one and the NT was in Greek.
mighty is a descriptive word that in some way describes a god. Theos is another descriptive word that does the same.
Elohim when applied to a single entity has a different meaning than when applied to more than one.
Kand what is “THEOS ” stand for
at the time of Christ ,would it be the same in Hebrew
T,Elohim is sometimes translated to theos when the writers of the New Testament quoted the Old. I know of one place in Hebrews where it is translated to the Koine Greek word for messengers.
Kyou really not answering to my question ,you just state what are your direct finds ,so you were quick to judge Mike but you really don't know ,then how do you criticise others with your lack of knowledge , I do not say this to under estimate your knowledge but i concentrate on this subject only ,so do not get me wrong ,love you just the same
T,
I presented the evidence and allowed it to speak for itself.
Elohim = Theos and only Elohim is rooted in mighty. Both are translated to god in English. Mighty is an attribute of a god, no matter the language.
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 17 2013,03:14) T, I presented the evidence and allowed it to speak for itself.
Elohim = Theos and only Elohim is rooted in mighty. Both are translated to god in English. Mighty is an attribute of a god, no matter the language.
Kyou right ,but this what it is so the word god =mighty one ;but we put a G into when it is for sure that it talks about GOD ALMIGHTY THE CREATOR ,THE FATHER OF CHRIST HIS ONLY SON
WHY IS HE THE ONLY SON
ALWAYS WANDERQuote (terraricca @ Aug. 17 2013,06:02) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 17 2013,03:14) T, I presented the evidence and allowed it to speak for itself.
Elohim = Theos and only Elohim is rooted in mighty. Both are translated to god in English. Mighty is an attribute of a god, no matter the language.
Kyou right ,but this what it is so the word god =mighty one ;but we put a G into when it is for sure that it talks about GOD ALMIGHTY THE CREATOR ,THE FATHER OF CHRIST HIS ONLY SON
WHY IS HE THE ONLY SON
ALWAYS WANDER
T,Why is Isaac called Abraham's only begotten in Scripture.
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 15 2013,22:22) The Koine Greek word theos does not mean mighty one and the NT was in Greek.
“Koine” only means “common” – as in the dialect spoken by the common man. For example, Shakespeare spoke “proper English”, while most Americans today can be said to speak “koine English”…….. ie: “the English of the common man”.But which came first – Hebrew or Greek? So if the Hebrew word “el” meant “mighty one”, and the Greek speaking people used “theos” to replicate the meaning of the Hebrew word “el”, then how do you say “theos” DOESN'T mean “mighty one”?
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 15 2013,22:22) mighty is a descriptive word that in some way describes a god. Theos is another descriptive word that does the same.
Yep. Just like I said. Why do you so often make posts that in appearance contradict me, when you are in fact agreeing with what I just said? Strong defines “el” as “mighty(y one)”. See? Either “mighty” as a adjective, or “mighty one” as a noun. Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 15 2013,22:22) Elohim when applied to a single entity has a different meaning than when applied to more than one.
Not really. Does “President” have different meaning than “president”? Because the difference we in English add by capping the first letter of a word is the difference the Hebrews added by pluralizing a word. It is generally called “the plural of majesty” – but is more accurately defined as a “plural of grandiosity”.Consider that in 1 Kings 11:33, Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Molek the god of the Ammonites are called “elohim” individually. And they are all “single entities”.
Also consider that in 1 Kings 1:33, David is called by the plural form “masters” – even though he is a “single entity”.
There are almost too many occurrences of the “plural of grandiosity” in the Hebrew scriptures to count.
(Keith, this is another of the times where the NET scholars shoot down a generally accepted “Godhead proof”. They unequivocally deny any chance that the plural word “elohim” indicates a triune God.)
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 17 2013,12:27) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 17 2013,06:02) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 17 2013,03:14) T, I presented the evidence and allowed it to speak for itself.
Elohim = Theos and only Elohim is rooted in mighty. Both are translated to god in English. Mighty is an attribute of a god, no matter the language.
Kyou right ,but this what it is so the word god =mighty one ;but we put a G into when it is for sure that it talks about GOD ALMIGHTY THE CREATOR ,THE FATHER OF CHRIST HIS ONLY SON
WHY IS HE THE ONLY SON
ALWAYS WANDER
T,Why is Isaac called Abraham's only begotten in Scripture.
Kis he called begotten by God
or by Abraham Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 17 2013,23:40) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 17 2013,12:27) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 17 2013,06:02) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 17 2013,03:14) T, I presented the evidence and allowed it to speak for itself.
Elohim = Theos and only Elohim is rooted in mighty. Both are translated to god in English. Mighty is an attribute of a god, no matter the language.
Kyou right ,but this what it is so the word god =mighty one ;but we put a G into when it is for sure that it talks about GOD ALMIGHTY THE CREATOR ,THE FATHER OF CHRIST HIS ONLY SON
WHY IS HE THE ONLY SON
ALWAYS WANDER
T,Why is Isaac called Abraham's only begotten in Scripture.
Kis he called begotten by God
or by Abraham
T,That is not relevant and the question I was answering is why Jesus is called the only begotten and I pointed out that Isaac is also called only begotten even though had two sons.
You seem to also want to know why Jesus is called the son of God. He was sired by God though the Holy Spirit, just as God's other children are.
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 17 2013,23:52) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 17 2013,23:40) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 17 2013,12:27) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 17 2013,06:02) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 17 2013,03:14) T, I presented the evidence and allowed it to speak for itself.
Elohim = Theos and only Elohim is rooted in mighty. Both are translated to god in English. Mighty is an attribute of a god, no matter the language.
Kyou right ,but this what it is so the word god =mighty one ;but we put a G into when it is for sure that it talks about GOD ALMIGHTY THE CREATOR ,THE FATHER OF CHRIST HIS ONLY SON
WHY IS HE THE ONLY SON
ALWAYS WANDER
T,Why is Isaac called Abraham's only begotten in Scripture.
Kis he called begotten by God
or by Abraham
T,That is not relevant and the question I was answering is why Jesus is called the only begotten and I pointed out that Isaac is also called only begotten even though had two sons.
You seem to also want to know why Jesus is called the son of God. He was sired by God though the Holy Spirit, just as God's other children are.
KQuote You seem to also want to know why Jesus is called the son of God. He was sired by God though the Holy Spirit, just as God's other children are. what other children
flesh produce flesh sins Adam ,
and it is not the holy spirit that give birth to anyone i believe or do you know any that are
what is the holy spirit
if he give birth to any beingMike,
We do seem to agree on the whole but you seem to stress mighty as the meaning of elohim.
My point is that Elohim is the ancient Hebrew word for god and not mighty. That is why it is often translated theos instead of to the common Greek equivalent to mighty. A god is mighty not a mighty is a god. God calls the children of Israel gods because they are above their fellow humans in being selected to receive the Law. Even the weakest one of them is greater that the most powerful Gentile as each and everyone of them is blessed.
Jehovah has infinite powers. Elohim used singular.
Angels and men each have limited power. Elohim used plural.
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