Who is this Jesus?

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 21 2013,11:43)

Mike, Can you call that Servant your God and Savior, Jesus Christ? Or do you deny that He is our God and Savior, Jesus Christ?

Rev 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.”
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
Rev 22:21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.

Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.

kathy ,your conclusion seems not line up with scriptures even in the last book written by John .some one must have the wrong interpretation ,right and it can not be JOHN.

[mikeboll64]

Kathi,

There are many gods, lords, and saviors.  Jesus is one of the many, but not the MOST HIGH one in any of the three categories.

Jesus is my Lord, but remains UNDER my Ultimate Lord Jehovah.  He has been APPOINTED to that position BY his and my God Jehovah.

For us, there is but one God, the Father; and one who was exalted and appointed over us BY that God to be our Lord.

Jesus is not my God, but one of the less high gods that Jehovah is the God of.

Imagine a king and his prince.  Both are powerful rulers, so both could be considered kings (rulers of people) in their own right.  But even though both are powerful rulers, when they are standing side by side, or when they are listed in a hierarchy, only one is truly the king.  The prince remains at the right hand of the king – in a very high, but still lower position than the king himself.

This is the case with King Jehovah and His prince Jesus Christ.

So yes, Jesus is the savior that my God Jehovah SENT into the world.  But no, he is not my God.  Only the Father holds that position for me.

The Master alone is my God, Kathi. I adore the servant who does so much for us, but I never forget that he is still but a servant of the Master I worship and pray to.

[terraricca]

MIKE

and we worship the same God as the servant ,

[mikeboll64]

Yes Pierre. You, Jesus, and I all worship the same God and Creator.

[Lightenup]

Quote (terraricca @ July 21 2013,09:31)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 21 2013,11:43) Mike, Can you call that Servant your God and Savior, Jesus Christ? Or do you deny that He is our God and Savior, Jesus Christ? Rev 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. Rev 22:21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen. Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. kathy ,your conclusion seems not line up with scriptures even in the last book written by John .some one must have the wrong interpretation ,right and it can not be JOHN.

It is evident that Peter considers the Son, our God and Savior, Jesus Christ. I agree with him. Why don't you? Do you deny that the Son is our God and Savior, Jesus Christ? I don't believe that John would deny this.

[Lightenup]

Mike,
you said:

Quote

So yes, Jesus is the savior that my God Jehovah SENT into the world. But no, he is not my God. Only the Father holds that position for me.

Can you admit that Peter calls the Son 'our God and Savior, Jesus Christ' in this verse:

2 Peter 1:1 From Simeon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ, have been granted a faith just as precious as ours.

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 22 2013,10:01)

Quote (terraricca @ July 21 2013,09:31) Quote (Lightenup @ July 21 2013,11:43) Mike, Can you call that Servant your God and Savior, Jesus Christ? Or do you deny that He is our God and Savior, Jesus Christ? Rev 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. Rev 22:21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen. Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. kathy ,your conclusion seems not line up with scriptures even in the last book written by John .some one must have the wrong interpretation ,right and it can not be JOHN. It is evident that Peter considers the Son, our God and Savior, Jesus Christ. I agree with him. Why don't you? Do you deny that the Son is our God and Savior, Jesus Christ? I don't believe that John would deny this.

Kathi

2 Peter 1:1 Click this icon to open a printer friendly page
Context
NET ©
From Simeon 1 Peter, 2 a slave 3 and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who through the righteousness of our God 4 and Savior, 5 Jesus Christ, have been granted 6 a faith just as precious 7 as ours.
NIV ©
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
NASB ©
Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
NLT ©
This letter is from Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ. I am writing to all of you who share the same precious faith we have, faith given to us by Jesus Christ, our God and Savior, who makes us right with God.
MSG ©
I, Simon Peter, am a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ. I write this to you whose experience with God is as life-changing as ours, all due to our God's straight dealing and the intervention of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
BBE ©
Simon Peter, a servant and Apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who with us have a part in the same holy faith in the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ:
NRSV ©
Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith as precious as ours through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
NKJV ©
Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

1) through the righteousness of our God and 2)Savior Jesus Christ:

this is what that scripture says ,why are you trying to deceive ,by only quoting a part of the verse and so hiding the real meaning of it

I see two things within that verse ONE IS COMING FROM GOD THE OTHER FROM CHRIST

IN OTHER WORDS ;THE RIGHTEOUSNESS IS GIVEN BY GOD WHILE CHRIST IS THE SAVIOR THAT GOD AS SEND AND SO PRODUCED A FAITH IN WHICH WE CAN HOPE IN.

[Lightenup]

Pierre,
Do you believe this verse is about two persons:
2 Peter 1:11
For thus an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, will be richly provided for you.

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 22 2013,10:35)

Pierre, Do you believe this verse is about two persons: 2 Peter 1:11 For thus an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, will be richly provided for you.

Kathi

It is only one person
But do you see that that person is not called God but lord,and we know that Jesus Christ his our lord ,

[Lightenup]

Pierre,
Both of those verses are grammatically the same in these regards and need to be translated in a consistent manner…the bias of man is guiding your mis-understanding as you translate both verses in a completely different manner. Please realize that God the Father is called both God in some places and Lord in other places also. You have already admitted that Jesus is a theos/God/god, right? Yet, you can't quite say that He is our God and Savior.

Peter had no problem saying that…I have no problem saying that. You deny it; Peter proclaims it. Realize that!

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 22 2013,12:09)

Pierre, Both of those verses are grammatically the same in these regards and need to be translated in a consistent manner…the bias of man is guiding your mis-understanding as you translate both verses in a completely different manner. Please realize that God the Father is called both God in some places and Lord in other places also. You have already admitted that Jesus is a theos/God/god, right? Yet, you can't quite say that He is our God and Savior. Peter had no problem saying that…I have no problem saying that. You deny it; Peter proclaims it. Realize that!

kathi

but Paul says “but for us there is only one true God and one lord “”

[Lightenup]

Pierre,
Do you agree that sometimes the Father is called Lord and at other places called God/god in the Bible?
Do you agree that sometimes the Son is called Lord and at other places called God/god in the Bible?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 21 2013,22:10)

Mike, you said: Quote So yes, Jesus is the savior that my God Jehovah SENT into the world.  But no, he is not my God.  Only the Father holds that position for me. Can you admit that Peter calls the Son 'our God and Savior, Jesus Christ' in this verse: 2 Peter 1:1 From Simeon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ, have been granted a faith just as precious as ours.

No.  I believe Peter knows the difference between his God and his Lord Jesus Christ.  This knowledge is evident from his words in the very next verse:

2 Peter 1:2
Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

The Greek words of verse 1 say, the god of us and savior of us Jesus Christ.

I understand Peter to be saying, the righteousness of our God and of our Savior, Jesus Christ.

(Kathi, you are straining the gnat again. We should go through every word that Peter ever wrote in the Bible and see if he knows that “God” is someone OTHER THAN “Jesus”. Are you interested in that?)

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 23 2013,05:07)

Pierre, Do you agree that sometimes the Father is called Lord and at other places called God/god in the Bible? Do you agree that sometimes the Son is called Lord and at other places called God/god in the Bible?

kathi

yes but that does not make you a strait flush

[4Thomas]

Quote (david @ July 21 2013,13:59)

Sorry, just noticed this was for mike and Thomas.   Mike, delete my comments.

Just had time to read this and catch up, no worries David.
You are welcome to join if you want to? but please dont overload me, this is the first time I have been able to check this forum since my last post 5 days ago.
I also need to reply to Mike, will do this tomorrow lunch break.

Mike, I read your posts and will reply tomorrow with scripture for us to look at regarding how many Gods there are, will just limit it to a couple of scriptures.
hope all is going well for you.

Life in the Son
Daniel

[Lightenup]

Mike,
Peter calls them both our God. Face it.
And yes, one of them is someone other than the other one.

[Lightenup]

Quote (terraricca @ July 22 2013,19:45)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 23 2013,05:07) Pierre, Do you agree that sometimes the Father is called Lord and at other places called God/god in the Bible? Do you agree that sometimes the Son is called Lord and at other places called God/god in the Bible? kathi yes but that does not make you a strait flush

What it undeniably says is Jesus is OUR God and Savior.

You need to know when to fold 'em Pierre.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 23 2013,11:59)

Mike, Peter calls them both our God. Face it. And yes, one of them is someone other than the other one.

I disagree. When you get the time, we'll go through every word Peter wrote in scripture, and see if he thought Jesus was “God”, okay?

Let me know. (I'd like to do the same with ALL of the NT writers.)

[mikeboll64]

Take your time, Daniel. No rush here.

[4Thomas]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2013,10:27)

Take your time, Daniel.  No rush here.

Thanks Mike,
I really appreciate the manor in which you handle things, it says a lot about your character and the type of person you are. thank you.

I need to suspend this debate for a while as I have a very close friend needing me for support for other things [non-faith based]. I need to support them so would appreciate if you suspend this debate, it shouldn't be too long. I have been trying to fit things in but really need to focus on them at the moment.

So if we could just pray for each other at the moment and continue this debate in a few weeks that would be good.

In Christ and only wanting the best for you [from how I understand things]

Daniel

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