Who is this Jesus?

[terraricca]

Quote (abe @ June 02 2013,00:26)

Quote (t8 @ May 31 2013,16:34) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 30 2013,15:21) Quote (kerwin @ May 29 2013,16:51) T, You claim angels do marry and are given in marriage while Jesus infers they neither marry or are given in marriage. What Pierre and the scriptures teach is that angels took human woman for themselves and produced children with them. That does NOT contradict Jesus' words that angels IN HEAVEN do not marry, does it? Further does God marry? Yet he produces many sons. Hi T8, (Quote) Further does God marry? Yet he produces many sons. That is a excellent question! Jer.3:14   Turn, O backsliding children, says the LORD; for I am   married   unto you: and I will take you one from a city, and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion: 15And I will give you shepherds according to my heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding. 16And it shall come to pass, when you are multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, says the LORD, they shall say no more, The    ark of the covenant    of the LORD: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more. 17   At that time    they shall call   Jerusalem   the  Throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the   Name   of the LORD, to   Jerusalem:   neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil hearts. Ho.2:16   And it shall be at that day, says the LORD, that you shall call me Ishi; and shall call me no more Baali. 17For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name. 18And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will abolish the bow and the sword and the battle from the earth, and will make them to lie down safely. 19And I will    Betroth    you unto me  forever;  yea, I will Betroth   you   unto me in righteousness, and in justice, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies. 20 I will even   Betroth   you unto me in faithfulness: and you shall know the LORD. 21And it shall come to pass in that day, I will answer, says the LORD, I will answer the heavens, and they shall answer the earth; 22And the earth shall answer with grain, and wine, and oil; and they shall answer Jezreel. 23And I will sow her    For Myself    in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them who were not my people, you are my people; and they shall say, you are my God. Is.54:1   Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD. 2Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes; 3For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy   Seed   shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited. 4Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more. 5For thy    Maker    is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. 6For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God. Gal.4:26   But the Jerusalem above is free; she is   OUR Mother. 27For it is written, “REJOICE, BARREN WOMAN WHO DOES NOT BEAR; BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR; FOR MORE NUMEROUS ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE DESOLATE THAN OF THE ONE WHO  * HAS*    A *HUSBAND.”* 28And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him [who was born] according to the Spirit, so it is   NOW   also. 30But what does the Scripture say? “CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN.” 31So then, brethren, we are NOT children of a bondwoman, but of the    Free woman. FOR MORE NUMEROUS ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE DESOLATE THAN OF THE ONE WHO  * HAS*    A *HUSBAND.”* Peace brother.

abe

Quote

FOR MORE NUMEROUS ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE DESOLATE THAN OF THE ONE WHO * HAS* A *HUSBAND.”*

what does it mean

[mikeboll64]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 31 2013,20:13)

The Greek words are NOT:  with the blood of himself. So why DO you suppose Paul said, “with the blood of his own“ instead of, “with the blood of himself“?

Kathi,

Compare Acts 20:28 with the following:

Romans 8:32
Indeed, he who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all………..

The Greek word is once again “idios” – referring to one who BELONGS TO God.  God did not spare His own, but instead bought men with the blood of His own.

[4Thomas]

Hi T8,

What you say is right regarding most of the prophets, this is the honest truth but the Lord wants to show you more than just the following

“When there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord [Yahweh], reveal myself to them in visions,
I speak to them in dreams.

T8 I like you and Mike, I see that you are both sincere with your beliefs.
I honestly believe you both are going to be some of the greatest disciples for Jesus especially evangelizing those that belong to the watchtower and other daughters of Jerusalem who deny the Lord that brought them.

When I read mike and your posts I see Saul as a Jew, he believed greatly in his Jewish ways, he persecuted Christians because he loved Yahweh so greatly and he truly believed that his faith was the true faith, so I know you both will be like Paul and make a huge impact and lead many people to Jesus, the true Lord.

Here is what the lord has given me to show you, and we know that Jesus taught clearly and explicitly that it was for the sake of salvation.  

You are correct Jesus indeed teaches that such things are revealed to innocent little children and that they are even hidden from the wise and prudent. I believe that this is the key to understanding what the Son is. Directly following this statement Jesus says.

Matthew 11
27“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
28“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

Hear the Fathers testament

John 5:37
New International Version (©2011)
And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,

The Father has testified regarding his Son that you have never seen the Fathers form. This is what Jesus said for the sake of the salvation.
Jesus also said to study the scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life, these are the very Scriptures that testify about me. He said Moses wrote about him.

I have never seen the following scripture before but as I started to understand that there were times that Yahweh revealed himself through visions and talked to his prophets when his angel was with them I felt Satan’s and his angels presence and strong deception trying to cover my soul. I prayed and asked for revelation and for God to clarify things, this is what He revealed to me.

Numbers 12:6-10
New International Version (©2011)
6he [Yahweh] said, “Listen to my words:

“When there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, reveal myself to them in visions,
I speak to them in dreams.
7But this is not true of my servant Moses;
he is faithful in all my house.
8With him I speak face to face,
clearly and not in riddles;
he sees the form of the Lord [Yahweh].
Why then were you not afraid
to speak against my servant Moses?”
9The anger of the Lord burned against them, and he left them.

Deuteronomy 34:10
Since then, no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the LORD [Yahweh] knew face to face,

Exodus 33:11 The LORD [Yahweh] would speak to Moses face to face, as one speaks to a friend. Then Moses would return to the camp, but his young aide Joshua son of Nun did not leave the tent.

So He showed me that Scripture explicitly teaches that Yahweh was seen and that it wasn’t a vision in Moses case and he when He says Face to face He then clarifies it by saying as one speaks to a friend, so when I speak with my friends face to face  I understand what the Father is testifying regarding his Son, who he calls Lord and God his expressed substance, his glorious and beautiful Word that never returns to him void. I understand His expressed substance glorious name before He took flesh.

Paul a Jew, a Hebrew of Hebrews, a Pharisee a follower of the Jews Yahweh, Paul was faultless in his righteousness based on the law – YET he considered everything as lost to worth of knowing Christ.

Philippians 3:4-9
4 though I myself have reasons for such confidence.
If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; 6 as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.
7 But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8 What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ.

The Lord has revealed to me many other scriptures I have never seen before after studying scripture for many years, it fair to say my help comes from the Lord. The questions Mike has asked I will answer with explicit scripture. My hope is to lead you both to the understanding of the glory of God that shines in the face of Jesus.
Its interesting that you should mention revelations how God speaks to his people, this is the part I was up to when I read your post and decided to reply to you before finishing my reply to mike.

Revelation 22
6And he said to me, “These words are faithful and true”; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place.

 16“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”

The Angel of the Lord is the Father and Son's angel of revelation, he is the same angel who revealed the end of times to Daniel. Now the Lord gets him to reveal the end of times to John. He is the messenger Angel.

Life in the Son and Life in his name

Daniel

[4Thomas]

Hi Mike,

Exodus 23:21
Pay attention to him and listen to what he says. Do not rebel against him; he will not forgive your rebellion, since my Name is in him.

There is a huge different between putting your name in someone to bear and actually giving them your name so people start calling you Yahweh. We should never call Angels Yahweh Mike, this argument shouldn't be used to try and prove that it wasn’t THE true Son the true expressed substance of the Father that was revealed.
Don’t trust me put your trust and faith in the scriptures, Yahweh put his name in his city Jerusalem and his people, yes and the gentiles also. This is what scripture explicitly teaches.

Jeremiah 14:9 Why are you like a man taken by surprise, like a warrior powerless to save? You are among us, LORD [Yahweh], and we bear your name; do not forsake us!

Acts 15:17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, even all the Gentiles who bear my name, says the Lord, who does these things' –

Jeremiah 15:16 When your words came, I ate them; they were my joy and my heart's delight, for I bear your name, LORD [Yahweh] God Almighty.

See when we have Yahweh’s name inside us we bear his name, we carry in inside us. This doesn’t mean people should now start calling us Yahweh. Yahweh is one in nature and he expresses this substance and nature.

And Yahweh said *IN* Jerusalem I will put my name, that's because Jerusalem was to bear his name

2 Kings 21:4 He built altars in the temple of the LORD, of which the LORD had said, “In Jerusalem I will put my Name.”  

*IN* Jerusalem so Jerusalem now bears his name. This is what scripture explicitly teaches. Sadly she is desolate. She is the mother of Harlots. His people and his city who the Lord has put his name IN will only see Jesus return when they say blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.

Daniel 9:18-19  
….open your eyes and see the desolation of the city that bears your Name. We do not make requests of you because we are righteous, but because of your great mercy. 19Lord, listen! Lord, forgive! Lord, hear and act! For your sake, my God, do not delay, because your city and your people bear your Name.”

Daniel explains this before Gabriel reveals the end of times to him. So who is Jesus angel that reveals the end of times in revelations? The Lord God's angel is the Angel of the Lord… His angel.

Revelation 22
6And he said to me, “These words are faithful and true”; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place.

The angel of the Lord is the Father and Sons Angel, compare above and below.

 16“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”

Who is the Father and Son's Angel that God used to reveal the end of times to John in revelations and who is he that reveals the end of times to Daniel? Gabriel is his name, he always reveals the most important things.

Mike, I will reply to your other questions as soon as I have time.

Life in the Son and in his name
Daniel

[mikeboll64]

Daniel,

I like you as well.  But your posts are increasingly larger and larger, and keep bringing up even more of what you consider to be “Jesus is God” proofs, before we've even concluded the former points.

For example, now we are off on a discussion about whether or not Moses LITERALLY saw the face of God.  Your claim seems to be that Moses DID see YHWH, because that particular YHWH was the “Jesus YWHW”, who CAN be seen by men.

But Numbers 12:8 doesn't really say “face to face”.  It says “mouth to mouth”.  Here are some thoughts from the NETNotes scholars:

The emphasis of the line is clear enough – it begins literally “mouth to mouth” I will speak with him. In human communication this would mean equality of rank, but Moses is certainly not equal in rank with the Lord. And yet God is here stating that Moses has an immediacy and directness with communication with God. It goes beyond the idea of friendship, almost to that of a king’s confidant.

The fact that Moses was like a king's confidant seems evident in scripture many times, including the time God listened to His human confidant and relented from destroying Aaron, the golden calf, and the nation of Israel – all because of the words his confidant said to Him.

But we can know that the words “mouth to mouth”, or “face to face” are metaphorical because of this clear teaching from YHWH Himself:

Exodus 33
19 And the Lord said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20 But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”

21 Then the Lord said, “There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.”

Daniel, this teaching from Jehovah Himself comes only a few verses after it was said, “The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as one speaks to a friend.”  (Verse 11)

So there is obviously a metaphorical way to understand “face to face”, that DOESN'T involve Moses LITERALLY seeing the face of Jehovah.

Even thousands of years later, John said, “No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.”  (John 1:18) And John wrote that NO MAN has EVER seen God………. AFTER he had seen Jesus many times.

But here we are, now discussing this topic, without having concluded the many other ones we started.  It can't go on like this, Daniel.  We must start with ONE topic, and CONCLUDE that topic before moving on to other topics.

Right now, the topic we are supposed to be discussing is whether or not Jesus is an angel of his and our God.  This can be resolved with a simple answer to the following questions:

Is an angel of God a “spirit son of God”?  YES or NO?

Is Jesus a “spirit son of God”?  YES or NO?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (4Thomas @ June 02 2013,13:38)

We should never call Angels Yahweh Mike, this argument shouldn't be used to try and prove that it wasn’t THE true Son the true expressed substance of the Father that was revealed.

Daniel,

What you say we should never do really has no bearing on what has clearly been shown to have been done in scripture.

Did you read the Judges 6 passage I listed for you?  Was an angel OF YHWH addressed as “YHWH”?  (This isn't the only time this happens in scripture, Daniel.)

You could also say that we shouldn't call an angel OF YHWH “God”, but that wouldn't mean it didn't happen in scripture.

Consider the burning bush, Daniel.  It is abundantly CLEAR from both the OT and NT accounts that Moses spoke to an angel OF God who was in the bush.  Yet Moses CLEARLY addressed that ANGEL as “God”.

So this is the only question:

Is it SCRIPTURAL that angels OF YHWH were addressed AS “YHWH” and “God”?  YES or NO?

(Remember, it doesn't matter in the least what WE personally THINK should or shouldn't be done.  It only matters what WAS done in scripture.)

[mikeboll64]

Daniel,

I know your time is limited, so let's get down to the heart of this matter.

1. Do you believe there exists only ONE Most High God Jehovah? YES or NO?

[Proclaimer]

Quote (abe @ June 02 2013,08:26)

Hi T8, (Quote) Further does God marry? Yet he produces many sons. That is a excellent question! Jer.3:14   Turn, O backsliding children, says the LORD; for I am   married   unto you: and I will take you one from a city, and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

Yes thanks Abe.

God does marry. Funny thing is that after I made the post, I googled that question and found out indeed he was married to Israel.

But I suppose the point is reproduction. God told man to repopulate. But some angels decided to participate.

Did they actually have sex with women, or did they do alien abductions and analyse DNA and then mix their DNA with ours. The Book of Enoch says that they also sinned against animals and I cannot imagine that they had sex with animals. They mixed animals together and this is perhaps how the Earth came to be filled with violent dinosaurs.

In fact we could almost do that ourselves. What would happen if you mixed the DNA of a giraffe and a lizard and then mixed in a Pitbull to give it a violent streak.

So as it was in the days of Noah will it be in the days of the son of man. Then the flood destroyed all flesh apart from species that God told to bring aboard. And we know that Noah was without blemish, a word that has genetic connotations.

[4Thomas]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2013,06:59)

Daniel, I know your time is limited, so let's get down to the heart of this matter. 1.  Do you believe there exists only ONE Most High God Jehovah?  YES or NO?

Hi Mike,
YES only one true God all others are false Gods.

So yes One Almighty in essence/nature but this nature is eternally expressed, The Father is the Source and the Son is the expressed substance. I don’t believe one can be Almighty without being able to express their Almighty power. How can you have a Sun or a star that doesn't express its glory, the Son is the Lord of Glory. Yahweh alone is the Lord of Glory.

Also you don’t have an Angel being called Yahweh or God Almighty and Jesus clearly taught that no one has ever seen the Father or either his form at any time. Scripture when it says no one has seen God is speaking of the Father because Jesus is called God many times. Jesus also makes this clear when he says no one has ever seen the Father.

Also who is this Yahweh who is also called God Almighty?

See Yahweh says he appeared as God Almighty.

Exodus 6:2-5
2 God also said to Moses, “I am the LORD [YAHWEH].  
3 I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty, but by my name the LORD [Yahweh] I did not make myself fully known to them. 4I also established my covenant with them to give them the land of Canaan, where they resided as foreigners.

Genesis 17:1
When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to him and said, “I am God Almighty; walk before me faithfully and be blameless.

Genesis 35:9-11
After Jacob returned from Paddan Aram,c God appeared to him again and blessed him. 10God said to him, “Your name is Jacob,d but you will no longer be called Jacob; your name will be Israel.e ” So he named him Israel.
11And God said to him, “I am God Almighty; be fruitful and increase in number. A nation and a community of nations will come from you, and kings will be among your descendants.

Genesis 48:3
Jacob said to Joseph, “God Almighty appeared to me at Luz in the land of Canaan, and there he blessed me

Most prophets God only appears in a vision or in a dream there are heaps of examples but Moses Abraham, Isaac and to Jacob are different.

I really need to respond to the points you have already made can you please wait before asking any more questions, I would appreciate this and I would also like to have the chance to begin to ask you some questions.

I need to answer you regarding how you think a angel is called Yahweh, it you read all the scriptures you will see that God and the Angel speaks and you will also see that the angel disapears and God continues to speak with Gideon.
There is no angel called Yahweh.
And God appeared to moses for the first time in the mist of the fire [yes the Angel was still there] and importantly this wasn't the only time Yahweh appeared to moses.

Yahweh appeared in many different ways to moses.

Regarding the time Yahweh had to hid himself and only show the back part this was because Yahweh showed all his glory.

Exodus 33
18Then Moses said, “Now show me your glory.”

19And the Lord said, “I will cause ALL my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”

Life in the Son and in his name

Daniel

Life in the Son and in his name.

Daniel

[4Thomas]

Hi Mike,

Quote

Is an angel of God a “spirit son of God”?  YES or NO?

YES but not a true Son that comes from the Father alone like Jesus, all angels are created Son’s by Jesus so the Sons are creature spirit Sons because they are created.

Quote

Is Jesus a “spirit son of God”?  YES or NO?

YES, The Father is Spirit, and as the Son is the same essence as the Father the Son has to be spirit also.

I still have more questions to answer for you, please wait until I get through them.

Life in the Son and in his name

Daniel

[mikeboll64]

Quote (4Thomas @ June 03 2013,19:10)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2013,06:59) Daniel, Do you believe there exists only ONE Most High God Jehovah?  YES or NO? Hi Mike, YES…………

Luke 1:32
He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High.

Luke 8:28
When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell at his feet, shouting at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don’t torture me!”

Daniel, it seems we agree that there exists only ONE Most High God.

I believe the above scriptures that say Jesus is the Son OF that ONE Most High God.  Do you believe them as well?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (4Thomas @ June 03 2013,19:18)

Hi Mike, Quote (mikeboll @ 64) Is an angel of God a “spirit son of God”?  YES or NO? YES…….. Quote (mikeboll @ 64) Is Jesus a “spirit son of God”?  YES or NO? YES………..

Daniel,

The extra explanations you gave after your answers of “YES” are simply your way to “explain” the obvious and correct answer of “YES” that you gave.  

What we do know is that the English word “angels” simply refers to “spirit sons of God” – of which Jesus was the firstborn.

If an angel IS a spirit son of God, and Jesus IS a spirit son of God, then we only need to know what 1+1 equals.

But we can come back to the angel thing and the other questions you haven't yet had time to answer at a later time in our discussion.  Right now, I'd like a simple, to-the-point, and honest answer to my previous post.

The rest of this stuff can wait.

peace,
mike

[4Thomas]

Quote (4Thomas @ June 04 2013,12:10)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2013,06:59) Daniel, I know your time is limited, so let's get down to the heart of this matter. 1.  Do you believe there exists only ONE Most High God Jehovah?  YES or NO? Hi Mike, YES only one true God all others are false Gods. So yes One Almighty in essence/nature but this nature is eternally expressed, The Father is the Source and the Son is the expressed substance. I don’t believe one can be Almighty without being able to express their Almighty power. How can you have a Sun or a star that doesn't express its glory, the Son is the Lord of Glory. Yahweh alone is the Lord of Glory. Also you don’t have an Angel being called Yahweh or God Almighty and Jesus clearly taught that no one has ever seen the Father or either his form at any time. Scripture when it says no one has seen God is speaking of the Father because Jesus is called God many times. Jesus also makes this clear when he says no one has ever seen the Father. Also who is this Yahweh who is also called God Almighty? See Yahweh says he appeared as God Almighty. Exodus 6:2-5 2 God also said to Moses, “I am the LORD [YAHWEH].   3 I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty, but by my name the LORD [Yahweh] I did not make myself fully known to them. 4I also established my covenant with them to give them the land of Canaan, where they resided as foreigners. Genesis 17:1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to him and said, “I am God Almighty; walk before me faithfully and be blameless. Genesis 35:9-11 After Jacob returned from Paddan Aram,c God appeared to him again and blessed him. 10God said to him, “Your name is Jacob,d but you will no longer be called Jacob; your name will be Israel.e ” So he named him Israel. 11And God said to him, “I am God Almighty; be fruitful and increase in number. A nation and a community of nations will come from you, and kings will be among your descendants. Genesis 48:3 Jacob said to Joseph, “God Almighty appeared to me at Luz in the land of Canaan, and there he blessed me Most prophets God only appears in a vision or in a dream there are heaps of examples but Moses Abraham, Isaac and to Jacob are different. I really need to respond to the points you have already made can you please wait before asking any more questions, I would appreciate this and I would also like to have the chance to begin to ask you some questions. I need to answer you regarding how you think a angel is called Yahweh, it you read all the scriptures you will see that God and the Angel speaks and you will also see that the angel disapears and God continues to speak with Gideon. There is no angel called Yahweh. And God appeared to moses for the first time in the mist of the fire [yes the Angel was still there] and importantly this wasn't the only time Yahweh appeared to moses. Yahweh appeared in many different ways to moses. Regarding the time Yahweh had to hid himself and only show the back part this was because Yahweh showed all his glory. Exodus 33 18Then Moses said, “Now show me your glory.” 19And the Lord said, “I will cause ALL my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.” Life in the Son and in his name Daniel Daniel

Hi Mike
Did you see this answer? Is this the question you mean?

Also regarding your questions about angels.

Angel = messanger

Messenger
someone who delivers messages to people is a messenger.

Is the Father a Spirit?
YES

Does the Father give his people messages regarding his Son when his Son is baptised among other places?
YES

So now the Father is a Angel,
NO

Or how about this

Is the Son a angel if Yes
Do fathers have the same essence as their Sons YES

So if the Son is a angel so is the Father.

Did you see all the scriptures that proved explicitly that it was God Almightly that was seen? Now Jesus said we would die in our sins if we didn't believe what he was and he sake for the sake of salvation that no one has seen God the Father at anytime. So this is yet another massive revelation to you that Jesus is the Almighty.
Please accept him as your true lord and true saviour there is no condemnation in him. He isn't going to destroy you on judgement for teaching the truth that he is true God from true God [from eternal expression, after all he is the expressed substance this is what scripture teaches]. 1×1=1

Scripture shows that Jesus is God, and that there is only one true God.

Is Jesus a true God YES/NO
Is Jesus a false God YES/NO
Is there only one true God YES/NO

See I believe the one true God expresses himself, he radiates his Glory. This Lord of Glory the Fathers Word [expression] has taken flesh.

An expressed image of ones self is a multiplication.

1×1 = 1

Ofcourse when Jesus takes flesh we also need to believe that he came in the flesh and we can't just believe in one true God, Father Son and Holy Spirit we also need to believe that the “Messiah” who alone is Jesus Christ [The Word, the Expressed substance of the Father].
Jesus is true God and true Man.

Love and life in the Son and in his name.
Daniel

[kerwin]

Quote (t8 @ June 01 2013,06:39)

Quote (kerwin @ May 19 2013,08:22) T8, The book of Hebrews calls the members of the host of heaven, with the exception of God,  the Messenger kind.  It makes clear Jesus is not one of them.   As far as I know Malachi 3:1-2 is not speaking of any member of the host of heaven; except for God; whom it mentions at a few points. Tell me the following if you are so sure: Who is this speaking of: Behold, I send my Angel to prepare the way before me … And who is this: the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the LORD Almighty. If you do not know, then you shouldn't be teaching on this subject.

T8,

He is speaking of individuals who are not of the messenger kind but who hold the messenger position.  

For example John the Baptist is not a messenger kind  but he serves God in the messenger position.

Hebrews is speaking of the messenger kind in many cases.

For example:

Hebrews 2:5
King James Version (KJV)

5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.

If the writer is speaking of the messenger position then God has not put the world to come in subjection to Jesus.

If the writer is instead speaking of the messenger kind then a non messenger kind, even one in a messenger position, can be the one the world to come is put into subjection to.

If Jesus is a member of the messenger kind then the world is not put into subjection to him.

So Jesus is not of the messenger kind though he does hold the messenger position.

[kerwin]

T,

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first ;the angels of God could not reproduce them selves thy are not given in marriage ;but they knew how to take a human form ,

Scripture does not state the messenger kind take human form but instead states certain angels are in human form.  These same angels seem to be who God created mankind in the outer likeness of.

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this is what made it possible for them to procreate like men but not the same results ;they have giants as sons

Not according to most available versions of Scripture though Mike introduced a version that is more friendly to that interpretation.

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now angels do not corrupt them self for sex ,but for the participation in men world and take over the domination by dominate men with their power and brutality,this action was resolved wen God made the flood ,the fallen angels could not materialize any longer ,the condition of the earth was now changed, and so God controlled once more the spiritual world

God never lost control of the Spiritual world but I assume you meant he stompted out the speculative Watcher Rebellion.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2013,06:52)

Quote (kerwin @ May 31 2013,12:35) You seem to believe that God created angels to reproduce but then did not give the fertile males companions and banned them from reproducing. According to Enoch, God gave men wives so offspring could be born of them and their line could continue. And God said that since He made angels immortal from the beginning, He did NOT give them wives to continue their line. As for your other post, I'm tired of the circling.  I have scriptures and solid logic on my side.  You seem to have neither, but keep talking anyway.  I have no time for that.

Mike,

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According to Enoch, God gave men wives so offspring could be born of them and their line could continue.

Scripture does not say that though God later commanded something similar.  God has foresight and being God created woman for many reasons. The “line could continue” is nonsense as the purpose of reproduction was to fill the earth until the fall introduced death into the world.  When death was introduced then reproduction did serve as a means by which the line of adam continued.

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And God said that since He made angels immortal from the beginning, He did NOT give them wives to continue their line.

God made humanity immortal and yet it is written:

Genesis 2:18
King James Version (KJV)

18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

So according to Enoch angels either have no help mate or the help mate is a male.

Genesis 2:21-24
King James Version (KJV)

21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Woman were not made of a part of an angel so an angel does not leave his first estate to cleave unto a woman and so become one flesh with her.

A help mate was not created from a part of an angel and so angels do not marry nor are they given in marriage.

A help mate was created from a part of an angel and angels reproduced to fill the heavens rendering marriage obsolete.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ June 04 2013,15:12)

Quote this is what made it possible for them to procreate like men but not the same results ;they have giants as sons Not according to most available versions of Scripture though Mike introduced a version that is more friendly to that interpretation.

The “giant” understanding seems to be confirmed in Numbers 13:33, Kerwin. The Israelite spies seemed like grasshoppers in the eyes of the descendants of the Nephilim. I take that to mean that the Nephilim were BIG.

What do YOU take it to mean?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ June 04 2013,15:43)

Scripture does not say that though God later commanded something similar.  God has foresight and being God created woman for many reasons. The “line could continue” is nonsense as the purpose of reproduction was to fill the earth until the fall introduced death into the world.  When death was introduced then reproduction did serve as a means by which the line of adam continued.

Take it up with Enoch then, Kerwin.  His book implies that mankind was never originally intended to live forever in the first place, hence the gift of wives.

I assume God could have let them live INDEFINITELY – depending on how things went.  But mankind wasn't created immortal, IMO.

Enoch makes more sense to me than you do, so think what YOU want to think, and I'll stick with Enoch, okay?

[mikeboll64]

Hi Daniel,

Does someone greater than the Father SEND Him to deliver their message for them?  No.  So the Father is NOT an angel.  Besides, the Father is NOT a “spirit son of God”.

“Angel” equals “spirit son of God”.  Jesus IS one of the latter, and therefore also one of the former.

Please address the second post on this page for me.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ June 05 2013,03:43)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2013,06:52) Quote (kerwin @ May 31 2013,12:35) You seem to believe that God created angels to reproduce but then did not give the fertile males companions and banned them from reproducing. According to Enoch, God gave men wives so offspring could be born of them and their line could continue. And God said that since He made angels immortal from the beginning, He did NOT give them wives to continue their line. As for your other post, I'm tired of the circling.  I have scriptures and solid logic on my side.  You seem to have neither, but keep talking anyway.  I have no time for that. Mike, Quote According to Enoch, God gave men wives so offspring could be born of them and their line could continue. Scripture does not say that though God later commanded something similar.  God has foresight and being God created woman for many reasons. The “line could continue” is nonsense as the purpose of reproduction was to fill the earth until the fall introduced death into the world.  When death was introduced then reproduction did serve as a means by which the line of adam continued. Quote And God said that since He made angels immortal from the beginning, He did NOT give them wives to continue their line. God made humanity immortal and yet it is written: Genesis 2:18 King James Version (KJV) 18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. So according to Enoch angels either have no help mate or the help mate is a male. Genesis 2:21-24 King James Version (KJV) 21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. Woman were not made of a part of an angel so an angel does not leave his first estate to cleave unto a woman and so become one flesh with her. A help mate was not created from a part of an angel and so angels do not marry nor are they given in marriage. A help mate was created from a part of an angel and angels reproduced to fill the heavens rendering marriage obsolete.

kerwin

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God made humanity immortal and yet it is written:

were is that written in scriptures ;teacher ?

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