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Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 09 2013,20:48) Quote (Lightenup @ May 08 2013,22:00) Mike,
you saidQuote And I also realize that just as Jesus lives BECAUSE OF the Father, we can live because of him. Just as the Father has eternal life in Him, so He has GRANTED the Son to also have eternal life in him. I learned these things from Jesus himself, Kathi. Did it say that He granted the Son to have 'eternal' life or just 'life?' The Son as the Shoot of David was granted life and was raised to eternal life. The Root always had life.
It says we can live BECAUSE OF him – just as HE lives BECAUSE OF the Father.It says that the Father (implied: “originally”) had the life in Him, and then (implied: “at some later time”) GRANTED the Son to also have life in him.
(BTW, the context of John 5:24-27 IS “eternal life” – as is explicitly mentioned in verse 24.)
And since the “Shoot” Son never granted anyone ETERNAL life, it must be the “Root” Son who WAS GRANTED from his Father and God to have eternal life in him. And since this is obviously the case, you should be able to see that even the “Root” Son did not ORIGINALLY have eternal life in him – or else the Father would not have had to GRANT it to him.
Kathi, have your own words just shot your own doctrine in the foot – once again?
(I haven't yet commented on your “Watch these 6 videos first” thread, because I haven't yet watched them all. But in the first one and a half clips, the speaker shoots his own doctrine in the foot about 4 different times. I'll watch the rest if and when I get the time/patience. I really wish there was a way that you and I could watch it, word for word, together. Then we could stop the video at every time he either says something unscriptural, or shoots his own doctrine in the foot.)
Well I see you hopping on one foot after putting the other one in your mouth here with your t8 shadow not far behind in similar motion. The context it about the Son of Man, the 'shoot' and the life in Him which from the moment of conception in Mary was eternal life from what I can tell. But you are going to say that He died. Yes, His flesh died but His spirit continued on alive.Glad that you are watching the 6 videos albeit gradually. Someday maybe we can discuss them after you have watched all of them. Just let me know. (You have only had almost 7 months to do so)
Quote (terraricca @ May 14 2013,12:54) Quote (4Thomas @ May 14 2013,06:21) Quote (terraricca @ May 13 2013,17:59) Quote (4Thomas @ May 13 2013,12:28) Quote (terraricca @ May 13 2013,13:12) Daniel the only thing is that wisdom produce children and so did Christ 'Pr 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
Pr 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.tell us who is it talks about in verse 22 to 30
terraricca,
I believe its saying exactly how you read it, its saying that Yahweh possessed wisdom and created the heavens and earth with his wisdom. We would be in serious trouble if Yahweh didn't use his wisdom when creating the universe, world or everything within. Wisdom is a gift of the Holy Spirit this is what scripture teaches.How can someone say wisdom is a person and then the Holy Spirit is not a person when the Holy Spirit is the one giving the Wisdom
Jer 10:11 Thus shall ye say unto them, THE GODS that have NOT made the heavens and the earth, even THEY SHALL PERISH FROM THE EARTH, and from under these heavens.
Jer 10:12 He hath MADE the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.Life in the Son and in his name
Daniel
DanielSo God created his own wisdom in the beginning
And so we can understand that God did not have any wisdom before
Hi terraricca,Wisdom is eternal, you are the one saying it had a beginning.
If you dont believe me show me where I have said I believe it has a beginning.Wisdom says, I was setup from Eternity, pure and simple… its when you try and make a *her* a *him* and eternity – “not eternity” this is when you have all the problems.
Pro 8:12 I, WISDOM, dwell in counsel, and am present in learned thoughts.
Pro 8:23 I WAS SET UP FROM ETERNITY [H5769 ôlâm ], and of old, before the earth was made.H5769עלם עולם‛ôlâm ‛ôlâm
o-lawm', o-lawm'
From H5956; properly concealed, that is, THE VANISHING POINT; generally TIME OUT OF MIND (past or future), that is, (practically) ETERNITY; frequentative adverbially (especially with prepositional prefix) ALWAYS: – ALWAYS (-S), ANCIENT (TIME), ANY MORE, CONTINUANCE, ETERNAL, (for, [n-]) EVER (-LASTING, -MORE, OF OLD), lasting, long (time), (of) old (time), PERPETUAL, AT ANY TIME, (beginning of the) world (+ WITHOUT END). Compare H5331, H5703.Wisdom is a gift of the Holy Spirit, and praise and glory be to him for it.
Life in the Son and life in his name
Daniel
Danielare you joking
my first verse I quoted you is ;the only thing is that wisdom produce children and so did Christ 'Pr 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
Pr 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
it is the scripture that says “FROM THE BEGINNING “AND WAS SO SET UP IN THE BEGINNING “AND MORE ;Pr 8:30 Then I was the craftsman at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
Pr 8:31 rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.
Ok, sorry, I thought you were trying to say that wisdom had a beginning.
So do you think that wisdom doesn't have a beginning and you also think wisdom is Jesus?Or do you think that wisdom does have a beginning so it not really wisdom but its Jesus?
I have read the whole chapter and it clear that its talking about wisdom and how Yahweh possessed it eternally and it by wisdom that he created the heavens and earth, this is common sense…
11because wisdom is better than precious gems
and nothing you desire can compare to it.”There is no revelation of Jesus Christ here its common sense that both the Father and Son used their unlimited wisdom when creating the heavens and the earth.
Jesus is either true God or true creator angel. No one has convinced me in the slightlest that Jesus is one of the angels in the old testament and the new testament clearly calls Jesus God in his pre-existant form before he took flesh and humbed himself to that of a servant.There is no stronger word for eternal than olam
H5769עלם עולם‛ôlâm ‛ôlâm
o-lawm', o-lawm'
From H5956; properly concealed, that is, THE VANISHING POINT; generally TIME OUT OF MIND (past or future), that is, (practically) ETERNITY; frequentative adverbially (especially with prepositional prefix) ALWAYS: – ALWAYS (-S), ANCIENT (TIME), ANY MORE, CONTINUANCE, ETERNAL, (for, [n-]) EVER (-LASTING, -MORE, OF OLD), lasting, long (time), (of) old (time), PERPETUAL, AT ANY TIME, (beginning of the) world (+ WITHOUT END). Compare H5331, H5703.New American Standard Bible (©1995)
“From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth.King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
I was formed before ancient times, from the beginning, before the earth began.International Standard Version (©2012)
From eternity I was appointed, from the beginning, from before there was land.NET Bible (©2006)
From eternity I was appointed, from the beginning, from before the world existed.Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
And before the world he was possessed by me, and from the beginning, before he would establish the Earth.GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
I was appointed from everlasting from the first, before the earth began.King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, before the earth was.American King James Version
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.American Standard Version
I was set up from e
verlasting, from the beginning, Before the earth was.Douay-Rheims Bible
I was set up from eternity, and of old before the earth was made.Darby Bible Translation
I was set up from eternity, from the beginning, before the earth was.English Revised Version
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.Webster's Bible Translation
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.World English Bible
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, before the earth existed.Ok so if you get the right translation I can see the word craftsman, and when it translated that way you also see the word mankind… So as we clearly know that God created man, male and female he created them. A her or a female is a classified under the species of man. “hu-man”
30Then I was with him, his master craftsman—
I was his delightl daily, continuously rejoicing in his presence,
31rejoicing in his inhabitable world and taking delight in mankind.”Now please tell me who is UNDERSTANDING
And is she a SHE or is she a male and WHO is she.Proverbs 8
1Does not wisdom call,
And understanding lift up her voice?****Understanding lifts HER voice******
And who is prudence who dwells with wisdom?
12“I, wisdom, dwell with prudence,
And I find knowledge and discretion.And spirit in the Greek is NOT a her this is incorrect spirit has no gender. Spirit in Greek it is neuter (“πνεῦμα”).
Ofcourse because we all have our own spirits both male and female.
As for the Holy Spirit, Yahweh the breath of God, he is refered to masculine in a number of places where the masculine Greek word “Paraclete” occurs, for “Comforter”.Wisdom is called a HER in the new testament in the greek
Luke 7:35 (NEW TESTAMENT)
But wisdom is proved right by all her children.Jer 10:11 Thus shall ye say unto them, THE GODS that have NOT made the heavens and the earth, even THEY SHALL PERISH FROM THE EARTH, and from under these heavens.
Jer 10:12 He hath MADE the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.Yahweh not only used his wisdom did he….
12“I, wisdom, dwell with prudence,
And I find knowledge and discretion.Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 13 2013,06:18) So then YOU were able to read his question, and my response to it, and decide that, in your humble opinion, the question was answered, and therefore a tile was unnecessary? Why don't you have the same faith in me and t8 that I just placed in you by making you an honorary moderator for this one case?
Mike,I don't see a reason to take chances.
Quote (4Thomas @ May 14 2013,12:36) Quote (terraricca @ May 14 2013,12:54) Quote (4Thomas @ May 14 2013,06:21) Quote (terraricca @ May 13 2013,17:59) Quote (4Thomas @ May 13 2013,12:28) Quote (terraricca @ May 13 2013,13:12) Daniel the only thing is that wisdom produce children and so did Christ 'Pr 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
Pr 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.tell us who is it talks about in verse 22 to 30
terraricca,
I believe its saying exactly how you read it, its saying that Yahweh possessed wisdom and created the heavens and earth with his wisdom. We would be in serious trouble if Yahweh didn't use his wisdom when creating the universe, world or everything within. Wisdom is a gift of the Holy Spirit this is what scripture teaches.How can someone say wisdom is a person and then the Holy Spirit is not a person when the Holy Spirit is the one giving the Wisdom
Jer 10:11 Thus shall ye say unto them, THE GODS that have NOT made the heavens and the earth, even THEY SHALL PERISH FROM THE EARTH, and from under these heavens.
Jer 10:12 He hath MADE the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.Life in the Son and in his name
Daniel
DanielSo God created his own wisdom in the beginning
And so we can understand that God did not have any wisdom before
Hi terraricca,Wisdom is eternal, you are the one saying it had a beginning.
If you dont believe me show me where I have said I believe it has a beginning.Wisdom says, I was setup from Eternity, pure and simple… its when you try and make a *her* a *him* and eternity – “not eternity” this is when you have all the problems.
Pro 8:12 I, WISDOM, dwell in counsel, and am present in learned thoughts.
Pro 8:23 I WAS SET UP FROM ETERNITY [H5769 ôlâm ], and of old, before the earth was made.H5769עלם עולם‛ôlâm ‛ôlâm
o-lawm', o-lawm'
From H5956; properly concealed, that is, THE VANISHING POINT; generally TIME OUT OF MIND (past or future), that is, (practically) ETERNITY; frequentative adverbially (especially with prepositional prefix) ALWAYS: – ALWAYS (-S), ANCIENT (TIME), ANY MORE, CONTINUANCE, ETERNAL, (for, [n-]) EVER (-LASTING, -MORE, OF OLD), lasting, long (time), (of) old (time), PERPETUAL, AT ANY TIME, (beginning of the) world (+ WITHOUT END). Compare H5331, H5703.Wisdom is a gift of the Holy Spirit, and praise and glory be to him for it.
Life in the Son and life in his name
Daniel
Danielare you joking
my first verse I quoted you is ;the only thing is that wisdom produce children and so did Christ 'Pr 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
Pr 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
it is the scripture that says “FROM THE BEGINNING “AND WAS SO SET UP IN THE BEGINNING “AND MORE ;Pr 8:30 Then I was the craftsman at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
Pr 8:31 rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.
Ok, sorry, I thought you were trying to say that wisdom had a beginning.
So do you think that wisdom doesn't have a beginning and you also think wisdom is Jesus?Or do you think that wisdom does have a beginning so it not really wisdom but its Jesus?
I have read the whole chapter and it clear that its talking about wisdom and how Yahweh possessed it eternally and it by wisdom that he created the heavens and earth, this is common sense…
11because wisdom is better than precious gems
and nothing you desire can compare to it.”There is no revelation of Jesus Christ here its common sense that both the Father and Son used their unlimited wisdom when creating the heavens and the earth.
Jesus is either true God or true creator angel. No one has convinced me in the slightlest that Jesus is one of the angels in the old testament and the new testament clearly calls Jesus God in his pre-existant form before he took flesh and humbed himself to that of a servant.There is no stronger word for eternal than olam
H5769עלם עולם‛ôlâm ‛ôlâm
o-lawm', o-lawm'
From H5956; properly concealed, that is, THE VANISHING POINT; generally TIME OUT OF MIND (past or future), that is, (practically) ETERNITY; frequentative adverbially (especially with prepositional prefix) ALWAYS: – ALWAYS (-S), ANCIENT (TIME), ANY MORE, CONTINUANCE, ETERNAL, (for, [n-]) EVER (-LASTING, -MORE, OF OLD), lasting, long (time), (of) old (time), PERPETUAL, AT ANY TIME, (beginning of the) world (+ WITHOUT END). Compare H5331, H5703.New American Standard Bible (©1995)
“From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth.King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
I was formed before ancient times, from the beginning, before the earth began.International Standard Version (©2012)
From eternity I was appointed, from the beginning, from before there was land.NET Bible (©2006)
From eternity I was appointed, from the beginning, from before the world existed.Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
And before the world he was possessed by me, and from the beginning, before he would establish the Earth.GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
I was appointed from everlasting from the first, before the earth began.King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginnin
g, before the earth was.American King James Version
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.American Standard Version
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, Before the earth was.Douay-Rheims Bible
I was set up from eternity, and of old before the earth was made.Darby Bible Translation
I was set up from eternity, from the beginning, before the earth was.English Revised Version
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.Webster's Bible Translation
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.World English Bible
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, before the earth existed.Ok so if you get the right translation I can see the word craftsman, and when it translated that way you also see the word mankind… So as we clearly know that God created man, male and female he created them. A her or a female is a classified under the species of man. “hu-man”
30Then I was with him, his master craftsman—
I was his delightl daily, continuously rejoicing in his presence,
31rejoicing in his inhabitable world and taking delight in mankind.”Now please tell me who is UNDERSTANDING
And is she a SHE or is she a male and WHO is she.Proverbs 8
1Does not wisdom call,
And understanding lift up her voice?****Understanding lifts HER voice******
And who is prudence who dwells with wisdom?
12“I, wisdom, dwell with prudence,
And I find knowledge and discretion.And spirit in the Greek is NOT a her this is incorrect spirit has no gender. Spirit in Greek it is neuter (“πνεῦμα”).
Ofcourse because we all have our own spirits both male and female.
As for the Holy Spirit, Yahweh the breath of God, he is refered to masculine in a number of places where the masculine Greek word “Paraclete” occurs, for “Comforter”.Wisdom is called a HER in the new testament in the greek
Luke 7:35 (NEW TESTAMENT)
But wisdom is proved right by all her children.Jer 10:11 Thus shall ye say unto them, THE GODS that have NOT made the heavens and the earth, even THEY SHALL PERISH FROM THE EARTH, and from under these heavens.
Jer 10:12 He hath MADE the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.Yahweh not only used his wisdom did he….
12“I, wisdom, dwell with prudence,
And I find knowledge and discretion.
DanielQuote There is no revelation of Jesus Christ here its common sense that both the Father and Son used their unlimited wisdom when creating the heavens and the earth.
Jesus is either true God or true creator angel. No one has convinced me in the slightlest that Jesus is one of the angels in the old testament and the new testament clearly calls Jesus God in his pre-existant form before he took flesh and humbed himself to that of a servant.I agree with this ,but it does not explain Prov;8 ;22-30
wisdom a he or a she just try to explain it all not opinions or move away from it in your explanation,
IF WHAT IT REFERS TO IN THOSE VERSES IS LITERALLY “WISDOM” AS YOU SAY ;WHY WAS IT MADE THE FIRST THING
WHY WAS IT ENJOYING MANKIND WHY WAS IT BESIDE GOD WEN HE CREATED ALL THINGS
AND IF WISDOM HIS A PART OF GOD THIS I HAVE NO DOUBTS ABOUT IT ,BUT WHY MAKING ALL THOSE DESCRIPTION OF IT
WISDOM IS UNDERSTANDING OF DEEP THINGS ,BUT HOW CAN IT HAVE A PERSONALITY
Quote (4Thomas @ May 14 2013,00:36) There is no stronger word for eternal than olam
While it is true that “olam” CAN refer to “time out of site”, it also refers to “a long time ago”. So the word doesn't necessarily ever refer to “from eternity”, although in Psalm 90:2, I like to think it does.Quote (4Thomas @ May 14 2013,00:36) New American Standard Bible (©1995)
“From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth.
Daniel, read these thoughts from the 25 Trinitarian scholars of NETNotes:Proverbs 8:22 NET ©
The Lord created 1 me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds of long ago.Footnote #1 says:
There are two roots קָנָה (qanah) in Hebrew, one meaning “to possess,” and the other meaning “to create.” The earlier English versions did not know of the second root, but suspected in certain places that a meaning like that was necessary (e.g., Gen 4:1; 14:19; Deut 32:6). Ugaritic confirmed that it was indeed another root. The older versions have the translation “possess” because otherwise it sounds like God lacked wisdom and therefore created it at the beginning. They wanted to avoid saying that wisdom was not eternal. Arius liked the idea of Christ as the wisdom of God and so chose the translation “create.” Athanasius translated it, “constituted me as the head of creation.” The verb occurs twelve times in Proverbs with the meaning of “to acquire”; but the Greek and the Syriac versions have the meaning “create.” Although the idea is that wisdom existed before creation, the parallel ideas in these verses (“appointed,” “given birth”) argue for the translation of “create”……..You only need to read the following verses in that passage to see the related terms “formed”, “given birth”, “born”, and “brought forth”. Those lend a lot of support to a translation of “created” in verse 22.
Quote (4Thomas @ May 14 2013,00:36) And spirit in the Greek is NOT a her this is incorrect spirit has no gender.
Who said “spirit” was a feminine word in the Greek language? I said in the other thread that it is feminine in the Hebrew language. “Wisdom” is feminine in both languages.Just remember not to confuse “grammatical gender” with literal gender.
I believe the Spanish word for house (casa) is a feminine word. But that doesn't mean Spanish houses are females – even IF I metaphorically say, “Look at my house! I built her all by myself!”
Quote (Lightenup @ May 14 2013,00:11) The context it about the Son of Man, the 'shoot' and the life in Him which from the moment of conception in Mary was eternal life from what I can tell.
Kathi,Jesus lives BECAUSE OF the Father. Any life that Jesus has in him was GRANTED to him by his Father and God.
Don't try to read your doctrine into the scriptures when it's not there.
I just love the way you guys hem and haw about Jesus being lesser than his God when he was on earth. Out of one side of your mouths, you want to insist that he was 100% God Almighty on earth. But then, when faced with clear scriptures that show him to be DEPENDENT UPON his God and our God, the story changes to, Oh, well he had emptied himself by that time. Or, Well, he was existing a little lower than the angels at that time.
Well which is it? Did God Almighty Himself come to earth and die at the hands of human beings? Or did someone LESSER THAN God Almighty come to earth and die at the hands of human beings?
Oh that's right, now we'll have to hear about the “two different NATURES of Jesus”, right?
Well I don't want to hear about nonsense like that. I just want an honest and DIRECT answer to my question above.
Mike,
The Root of Jesse came as the offspring of David to die at the hands of human beings. As the offspring of David He was lower than the angels.Quote
Jesus lives BECAUSE OF the Father. Any life that Jesus has in him was GRANTED to him by his Father and God.Once again MIKE, that passage refers to the Son of Man that lives because of the Father. Read it and see that the Son of man is who is referred to in this regards.
John 5
26For just as the Father has life in himself, thus he has granted the Son to have life in himself, 27and he has granted the Son authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man.And?
Is “the Son of Man” someone OTHER THAN Jesus Christ? Did a spiritual Jesus live from eternity all on his own doing, but the Son of Man lived only BECAUSE OF his God?
Kathi, I would seriously like a DIRECT answer to my previous question. Here it is again:
Did God Almighty Himself come to earth and die at the hands of human beings?
Or did someone LESSER THAN God Almighty come to earth and die at the hands of human beings?
Which one?
I would also like Daniel to answer that question DIRECTLY.
Mike,
The Lord God Almighty, the only Begotten God became flesh and died at the hands of human beings according to the flesh.Quote
Is “the Son of Man” someone OTHER THAN Jesus Christ? Did a spiritual Jesus live from eternity all on his own doing, but the Son of Man lived only BECAUSE OF his God?The Son of Man is Jesus according to the flesh but Jesus wasn't the Son of Man until He was given life in the flesh in the womb of Mary. The Son of Man was not alive before or during creation.
Quote (4Thomas @ May 13 2013,15:22) The New testament reveals she is indeed a her. Luke 7:35 (NEW TESTAMENT)
But wisdom is proved right by all her children.Now common sense would clearly show that if wisdom was actually a person which is huge leap of faith in itself that with the revealation of Jesus being the Son that it would IDENTIFY wisdom as a MALE.
Wisdom is a gift of the Holy Spirit, I would be amazed to find if its the same people who believe that wisdom
is a not a female and really a male and really Jesus Christ.
are the same ones that don't believe that The holy spirit is a person… All for the follwoing chapter in prov The mind bogglesNow please tell me who is UNDERSTANDING
And is she a SHE or is she a male and WHO is she.
John the baptist? Come on guys you are better than this.
she refers to an attribute.
He refers to a person.wisdom is an attribute of God, but then is begotten and becomes the workMAN at God's side.
So there you have it. Someone is begotten from an attribute of God and then assists God in some way when he makes the Universe.
Q: Now who did God create the Universe through?
A: Jesus ChristYou need to read the whole Wisdom scripture to see wisdom being begotten.
John 1:1 (English-NIV)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was god.
Compare with Proverbs 8 22-23
“The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works” and “I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began”.Hebrews 1:5-6 (English-NIV)
5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”
6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”
Compare with Proverbs 8:24
“When there were no oceans, I was given birth”.Colossians 1:15-16 (English-NIV)
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Compare with Proverbs 8:30
“Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence,”.Quote (Lightenup @ May 17 2013,19:13) Mike,
The Lord God Almighty, the only Begotten God became flesh and died at the hands of human beings according to the flesh.
That's funny because we have been taught that he is the only begotten son. You must be reading a weird and inaccurate version of the Bible.Jesus is the son of God, not God.
And those who deny that Jesus is the son of God are of the Antichrist spirit or at least they deny the Father and the son. That is one of the tests we are encouraged to do to check out when testing a spirit or teaching.
By saying he is God, you are denying that he is the son of God.
1 John 2:23
No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 17 2013,14:49) Did God Almighty Himself come to earth and die at the hands of human beings? Or did someone LESSER THAN God Almighty come to earth and die at the hands of human beings?
Which one?
I would also like Daniel to answer that question DIRECTLY.
Good luck with a straight answer for that question. You will need it.
Quote (t8 @ May 17 2013,14:19) John 1:1 (English-NIV)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was god.
Compare with Proverbs 8 22-23
“The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works” and “I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began”.Hebrews 1:5-6 (English-NIV)
5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”
6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”
Compare with Proverbs 8:24
“When there were no oceans, I was given birth”.Colossians 1:15-16 (English-NIV)
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Compare with Proverbs 8:30
“Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence,”.
t8thanks,this is what came to my mind ,but could not spell it,great you are my mind reader
Daniel
Quote Now please tell me who is UNDERSTANDING
And is she a SHE or is she a male and WHO is she.
John the baptist? Come on guys you are better than this.waiting for your answers
To all,
Jesus' characteristics are not God's characteristics which means he is not God.
Hebrews makes the case Jesus is not an angel which means he is not an an angel.
Michael is an angel and Jesus is not an angel which means he is not Michael.
Scripture declares he was and is a man which means he was and is a man.
Quote (Lightenup @ May 16 2013,23:17) The Son of Man is Jesus according to the flesh but Jesus wasn't the Son of Man until He was given life in the flesh in the womb of Mary. The Son of Man was not alive before or during creation.
Okay, now I'm getting confused. You say the “Lord God Almighty” came to earth and died. I don't know of any scripture that says such a thing, but just to humor you:Is the “Lord God Almighty” a human being who needed to be “GIVEN” life? Is the “Lord God Almighty” lower than the angels?
Quote (t8 @ May 17 2013,02:25) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 17 2013,14:49) Did God Almighty Himself come to earth and die at the hands of human beings? Or did someone LESSER THAN God Almighty come to earth and die at the hands of human beings?
Which one?
I would also like Daniel to answer that question DIRECTLY.
Good luck with a straight answer for that question. You will need it.
Kathi actually DID answer it, but her answer made my stomach turn.She said the Lord God Almighty came to earth and died at the hands of men.
I'll await her scripture that says such a thing. From what I'VE read in the scriptures, the Lord God Almighty SENT His Son into the earth where that Son died at the hands of men.
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