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Hi KW,
Indeed we are given a new Spirit.
That does not say our own is old or corrupted.
Yes we are transformed by renewal of our hearts and minds.Why add to what is written?
Nick Hassan:
Quote I am going to point out the definitions of some words.
By old I mean:
Quote b. Belonging to or being of an earlier time: As in the time earlier than when the individual received the new spirit.
Do you believe that a human being is without a spirit prior to receiving a “new” one? If not then they obviously have an old spirit.
By holy I mean:
Quote Living according to a strict or highly moral religious or spiritual system I use righteousness as a synonym.
By righteousness I mean:
Quote Morally upright; without guilt or sin If there is a holy spirit you live by then why do you not think there is a corrupt spirit that you live by?
Quote The opposite is corrupt or impure. By corrupt I mean:
Quote Marked by immorality and perversion; And
By impure I mean
Quote Immoral or sinful: By Spirit I mean:
Quote The essential nature of a person or group. Thus a person with a righteous spirit would have the essential nature of holiness and a person with a corrupt spirit would have the essential nature off immorality.
Are you following me up this point?
All the preceeding quotes are from thefreedictionary.com.
Hi KW,
So OLD in this context is your own concept unrelated to scripture.
Got that.Spirit is in your theology the essential nature of a person [soul] and not life giving.
Got that.So you have got your soul and spirit muddled?
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote So OLD in this context is your own concept unrelated to scripture.
My apologies I forgot to credit thefreedictionary.com for all the definitions I chose.
That means the concepts are not my own but rather are concepts used in the English language. The versions of Scripture I use are written in the English language and thus are related to concepts used in the English language.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Spirit is in your theology the essential nature of a person [soul] and not life giving.
There is a spirit of life but I do not thing it is the same as the same one you can walk according to its ways.
The life giving spirit is God who breathed life into Adam.
I believe Paul also uses the term “life giving spirit” for the spirit of righteousness because if you walk according to it you will inherit eternal life.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote So you have got your soul and spirit muddled?
I admit that there are definitions of spirit and soul which are synonyms and thus confuse the issue for some.
I do not I understand “soul” to mean “The essential nature of a person or group.”
I believe the best definition for “soul” I can find is:
Quote a person; individual My own concept is:
The immaterial part of a person that is the individual themselves.
I used thefreedictionary.com for the quotes not otherwise credited.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 16 2010,15:00) HI KW,
The world has greatly confused you.
Stay with the Word.
I am attempting to clear up your confusion by explaining what definitions I am using for Enlish words I choose to use to explain concepts I find in scripture.In scripture I do find the clause “breath of life” which I render “spirit of life” as the Hebrews used either the word “ruwach” or the word “nĕshamah” for both breath and spirit. For example Genisis 6:27 and Genisis 2:7 translate the respective Hebrew words to “breath”.
On the other hand this does not fit the aparent definition of the Holy Spirit which is mentioned in Galatians 5:22-23 which is associated with certain behahaviors even though the Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of Life other places. I conclude that saying that it means the Spirit that brings eternal life as according to Galatians 5:21 that those that don't walk according to it will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.
I am speaking off ideas no matter what words I chose to describe these ideas.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 16 2010,15:02) GB,
We are meant to show revealed truth from scripture.
There is no maths such as you present above in scripture.
How do you come to understandings that are not in scripture?Gnostic?
Nick……….My bible says when GOD Breath Spirit into the Molded Flesh man he became a living SOUL. So lets just add it up, a Flesh body an Spirit added into it and you have a living soul. My bible also says Jesus said do not fear those who can kill the flesh and do no more , but fear him who can destory BOTH (two things) , the body and the Soul in the GRAVE. Simple logic can tell anyone that unless they are blind to the truth. So the word (BOTH) meaning two things, is gnosticism in your dogmas right?
Gnosticism has nothing to do with just simple common sense. Or do you call when a person adds one and one and get two i suppose because it is not in the bible that means he is preaching Gnosticism also. Pure hog washKerwin……….You have it right a Soul equals a BODY plus SPIRIT added into it. And all Spirit (IS) what life is. Rather it be good or evil or clean or unclean or Holy (special spirit) or unholy spirit , of GOD or of the world, it is all spirit (intellects), and all have derived there source from one God. Who created everything that exists and has given it spirit to live, that includes all flesh even animals. Those who falsely preach that a Soul and a Body and a SPIRIT equal a being are the one in error and confused. IMO
Nick………Produce your scriptures that show a person consists of a Body and a Soul and a Spirit, Show where a Soul is separate from a Body and Spirit, then Show it in scripture or are you the real gnostic here?
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 16 2010,20:50) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 16 2010,15:00) HI KW,
The world has greatly confused you.
Stay with the Word.
I am attempting to clear up your confusion by explaining what definitions I am using for Enlish words I choose to use to explain concepts I find in scripture.In scripture I do find the clause “breath of life” which I render “spirit of life” as the Hebrews used either the word “ruwach” or the word “nĕshamah” for both breath and spirit. For example Genisis 6:27 and Genisis 2:7 translate the respective Hebrew words to “breath”.
On the other hand this does not fit the aparent definition of the Holy Spirit which is mentioned in Galatians 5:22-23 which is associated with certain behahaviors even though the Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of Life other places. I conclude that saying that it means the Spirit that brings eternal life as according to Galatians 5:21 that those that don't walk according to it will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.
I am speaking off ideas no matter what words I chose to describe these ideas.
Hi KW,
Do you think it best to apply the measures worldly men offer to grasp the depth of words of God?Nick Hassan,
It is written:
1 Corinthians 14:2(KJV) reads:
Quote For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries
and
1 Corinthians 14:6-11(KJV) reads:
Quote Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
and
1 Corinthians 14:19(KJV) reads:
Quote Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
So why would anyone want to listen to words that cannot be understood instead of ones that can be? It sounds to me like they are looking for an excuse to disobey God.
Hi KW,
Understandings often seriously differ but truth is stable[jn 17.17].
We need the understanding given by the Spirit of God not worldly dictionaries.
It is of the grace of God [2peter1] and by the Spirit we are enabled to access the depths of God[1cor2]Nick Hassan,
I use the dictionary and the lexicons because I wish to understand the language that truth is spoken in. Paul's point that if you do not understand the language spoken then the truth is useless to you is a valid and sound point.
My point is that you seem to fail to comprehend the ideas and principals that God teaches in squipture though you seem to grasp the words. One would say you fail to see the forest for the trees even though the trees make up the forest.
What does born again in spirit and water mean?
When are you born in spirit and water the first time?
What is being born in spirit?
What is being born in water?
Do you know the answers to these questions?
Hi KW,
Scripture is the wisdom of God.[Lk11]
You take a scientific approach to the sacred words?
you will learn some things but seek the Spirit and the doors of understanding will open.Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Scripture is the wisdom of God.[Lk11]
I have to correct you. Every word that comes out of the mouth of God but those words are certainly not limited to scripture. Still, if you do not comprehend those words then “what good are they to you?”
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote You take a scientific approach to the sacred words?
The scientific method is a way to seek understanding. Logical reasoning serves the same purpose. You also have to deal with Jewish mysticism which some would say is not logical. I disagree as it does have its own rules.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote you will learn some things but seek the Spirit and the doors of understanding will open.
The scientific method, logic, and even Jewish mysticism are mere tools and they are useless without God.
In seeking to understand I have asked God many of the same questions I have asked you and God has been merciful and supplied the answers.
Hi KW,
So the word of God is not alive and active to you?
They are not spirit and life?You see the works of men as being equally valid?
hmmmQuote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 17 2010,14:42) Hi KW,
So the word of God is not alive and active to you?
They are not spirit and life?You see the works of men as being equally valid?
hmmm
The Word of God is living and active and he God uses man among other tools to do his works.God created mankind to use his mind and to use tools among the other skill, characteristics, and abilities he gave to them.
Do not show contempt for the riches of God grace.
Obeying all of Jesus' teachings are life but one must understand them in order to obey them.
Seek understanding with the tools, abilities, and characteristics God gives you to use for that purpose.
I am sure you have the ability to ask question. Do not be aftraid because a student who asks questions can be rewarded with answers.
Jesus teaches us:
Matthew 7:7(NIV) reads:
Quote Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
hi KW,
Does God hold the clever man in the same light you seem to?[1Cor2]
Does the wisdom of man match the wisdom of God?
The word is God's wisdom.
Respect it.His thoughts are above ours.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 17 2010,15:04) hi KW,
Does God hold the clever man in the same light you seem to?[1Cor2]
Does the wisdom of man match the wisdom of God?
The word is God's wisdom.
Respect it.His thoughts are above ours.
Luke 2:46-47(KJV) reads:Quote And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions. And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.
and
Matthew 10:16(KJV) reads:
Quote Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
Kerwin……….Nick seem to have a odd view of Intellect and Understanding , Scripture does not agree with him on this, we are told to seek Knowledge and grow in understanding. He thinks clarification of Scriptures is “CARNAL or WORLDLY” or “Gnosticism”. His religion is based on Just believe and forget about understanding it. But the TRUTH of GOD is SOUND and CLEAR and does involve understanding and Knowledge. At least to those who have the SPIRIT of TRUTH in THEM . IMO
peace and love……………..gene
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