Who is this Jesus?

[kerwin]

terraricca wrote:

Quote

being called righteous in they eyes of God it is because we accomplish what God ask,and have faith in his word,and walk accordingly,this is our work to be done as per James

What do you think I have been writing?  My concern is that you might believe the works of God are done by human effort and not by faith.  By faith I mean that we believe God's promise of righteousness and God works through that belief to change us so we do all he commands us to do.  That act of belief is part of our obedience to all of the commands of Jesus our Emperor and King.

[terraricca]

KW

i believe you got it wrong, faith is to act upon what you can not see and produce the fruits of what has been ask from you,to do for the hope placed in front of all of us,so that at the end we may be called righteous,

Jas 2:18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

for this our faith as to be sincere and from the hearth ,and god blessess those who love him.

what you think James is saying KW ?? are you in line with the scriptures??

[kerwin]

Terraricca wrote:

Quote

I believe you got it wrong, faith is to act upon what you cannot see and produce the fruits of what has been ask from you, to do for the hope placed in front of all of us, so that at the end we may be called righteous,

Let us look at what scripture states about faith.

Hebrews 11:1(NIV) reads:

Quote

Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

That seems a fitting definition except we may want to consider that Abraham’s faith that God would do as he promised did not end when Isaac fulfilled the promise.  Instead Abraham continued to have faith God did what he promised.

Now we also know that man was made a servant of sin by Adam’s sin and thus chooses to sin because his nature has become corrupt and he obeys the dictates of the spirit of this world.

Romans 3:9(NIV) reads:

Quote

What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin.

It is therefore known that we do not see “righteousness” but that rather we see ourselves bound to the evil one.  That is why it is written.

Psalms 51:17(NIV) reads:

Quote

The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.

Now into this time when we who hunger and thirst for righteousness despaired of ever obtaining our goal God sent his Son to deliver us from our wretched condition and so promised that obeyed all his Son’s commands we would be set free from obedience to sin and become instead servants to righteousness.

John 8:31-32(NIV) reads:

Quote

To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

When you are truly set free from sin then you will not sin because if you sin you are still serving sin.  We hope and have confidence for that outcome and when we finally obtain it, we like Abraham, have faith God did as he promised.  Some will obtain it sooner than other but all who have faith will obtain it because God does as he promises.

If we sin then we feel remorse for our sins and therefore confess them to God having confidence that God will cleanse us from the desire to fulfill the urges that led us to sin though we will still feel those urges and be tempted even as Jesus was tempted.

Terraricca wrote:

Quote

what you think James is saying  KW

James does not disagree with me since the fruits of Abrahams faith was that he did what God commanded because he had confidence God would do as he promised.  In a like way those who believe the promise of righteousness will resist the devil having confidence God is with them for he is faithful.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
When you are washed you will still need to wash your feet because servants walking in the world become naturally rather grubby.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Self effort cannot make you righteous.

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 06 2010,14:04)

Hi KW, Self effort cannot make you righteous.

I agree as the closest I aproached self effort is when I wrote:

Previously, Kerwin wrote:

Quote

In a like way those who believe the promise of righteousness will resist the devil having confidence God is with them for he is faithful.

And I based that idea on:

James 4:7(KJV) reads:

Quote

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

I expect my reader to understand that even the ability to resist comes from God and not from themselves.

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 06 2010,14:02)

Hi KW, When you are washed you will still need to wash your feet because servants walking in the world become naturally rather grubby.

I believe that was an example of the one that is greater serving the younger and our need to allow Jesus to serve us by leading us to God.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 06 2010,10:54)

terraricca wrote: Quote being called righteous in they eyes of God it is because we accomplish what God ask,and have faith in his word,and walk accordingly,this is our work to be done as per James What do you think I have been writing?  My concern is that you might believe the works of God are done by human effort and not by faith.  By faith I mean that we believe God's promise of righteousness and God works through that belief to change us so we do all he commands us to do.  That act of belief is part of our obedience to all of the commands of Jesus our Emperor and King.

KW

if i would believe what you say then i would be against Christ sacrifice,
you can only have faith in the promise ,wen you understood what the promise is;
then either you believe the promise or not,if you do, now you have faith in the promise and from now on you produce the deeds of that faith;
the hypocrites say they have faith but do not produce the deeds of that faith.
this is were the difference in true faith lays

all what is promised is only possible of the grace of God so all glory should go to are heavenly father ,Christ was and is the willingly son who serve his father always for this he also receive some glory,but the father we worship.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 06 2010,17:11)

Terraricca wrote: Quote I believe you got it wrong, faith is to act upon what you cannot see and produce the fruits of what has been ask from you, to do for the hope placed in front of all of us, so that at the end we may be called righteous, Let us look at what scripture states about faith. Hebrews 11:1(NIV) reads: Quote Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. That seems a fitting definition except we may want to consider that Abraham’s faith that God would do as he promised did not end when Isaac fulfilled the promise.  Instead Abraham continued to have faith God did what he promised. Now we also know that man was made a servant of sin by Adam’s sin and thus chooses to sin because his nature has become corrupt and he obeys the dictates of the spirit of this world. Romans 3:9(NIV) reads: Quote What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. It is therefore known that we do not see “righteousness” but that rather we see ourselves bound to the evil one.  That is why it is written. Psalms 51:17(NIV) reads: Quote The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise. Now into this time when we who hunger and thirst for righteousness despaired of ever obtaining our goal God sent his Son to deliver us from our wretched condition and so promised that obeyed all his Son’s commands we would be set free from obedience to sin and become instead servants to righteousness. John 8:31-32(NIV) reads: Quote To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” When you are truly set free from sin then you will not sin because if you sin you are still serving sin.  We hope and have confidence for that outcome and when we finally obtain it, we like Abraham, have faith God did as he promised.  Some will obtain it sooner than other but all who have faith will obtain it because God does as he promises. If we sin then we feel remorse for our sins and therefore confess them to God having confidence that God will cleanse us from the desire to fulfill the urges that led us to sin though we will still feel those urges and be tempted even as Jesus was tempted. Terraricca wrote: Quote what you think James is saying  KW James does not disagree with me since the fruits of Abrahams faith was that he did what God commanded because he had confidence God would do as he promised.  In a like way those who believe the promise of righteousness will resist the devil having confidence God is with them for he is faithful.

Kerwin……….I agree with you brother, “FOR WE HOPE FOR THAT RIGHTEOUSNESS TO (COME)”. Not as though we have already obtained it, But we are kept for that righteousness to be revealed in US, which is of GOD and not of ourselves.

Peace and love to you and yours……………..gene

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Jn13
“He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet”

[kerwin]

Gene Balthrop wrote:

Quote

Kerwin……….I agree with you brother, “FOR WE HOPE FOR THAT RIGHTEOUSNESS TO (COME)”. Not as though we have already obtained it, But we are kept for that righteousness to be revealed in US, which is of GOD and not of ourselves.

I disagree and agree.  I disagree because when a student of Jesus is reborn in Spirit they posses that righteousness that is to come because they posses the Spirit of righteousness.   I agree because they student must still become mature and learn to walk according to the ways of that righteousness at all times.  I also admit that there may be those who are fully mature even from the moment they are reborn.

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 07 2010,00:01)

Hi KW, Jn13 “He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet”

And yet Peter had not received the Spirit of Holiness at that time since it was only sent after the death and resurrection of Jesus.

[kerwin]

Terraricca wrote:

Quote

if i would believe what you say then i would be against Christ sacrifice,

I fail to see your reasoning because I mentioned the need for the self sacrifice of Jesus when I wrote:

Previously, Kerwin wrote:

Quote

Now into this time when we who hunger and thirst for righteousness despaired of ever obtaining our goal God sent his Son to deliver us from our wretched condition and so promised that obeyed all his Son’s commands we would be set free from obedience to sin and become instead servants to righteousness.

Romans 7:24-25(NIV) reads:

Quote

What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!       So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

And

Romans 5:8(NIV) reads:

Quote

But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

A promise is a covenant and the promise of righteousness is the covenant of the spirit of righteousness.  That covenant is sealed with Jesus’ blood and by it we are reconciled to God.

Terraricca wrote:

Quote

you can only have faith in the promise ,when you understood what the promise is; then either you believe the promise or not, if you do, now you have faith in the promise and from now on you produce the deeds of that faith; the hypocrites say they have faith but do not produce the deeds of that faith. this is were the difference in true faith lays all what is promised is only possible of the grace of God so all glory should go to our heavenly Father ,Christ was and is the willing son who serves his Father always for this he also receive some glory, but the Father we worship.

If I understand you correctly then I agree with all of this.

[NickHassan]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 07 2010,05:16)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 07 2010,00:01) Hi KW, Jn13 “He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet” And yet Peter had not received the Spirit of Holiness at that time since it was only sent after the death and resurrection of Jesus.

Hi KW,
Peter had been made clean by the Word.[jn15]
He was taught by the Spirit [matt16] even before he had been baptised in the Spirit[acts2].

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 07 2010,01:00)

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 07 2010,05:16) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 07 2010,00:01) Hi KW, Jn13 “He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet” And yet Peter had not received the Spirit of Holiness at that time since it was only sent after the death and resurrection of Jesus. Hi KW, Peter had been made clean by the Word.[jn15] He was taught by the Spirit [matt16] even before he had been baptized in the Spirit[acts2].

It sounds like you are not correctly understanding scripture which states.

Jeremiah 31:33(KJV) reads:

Quote

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This only happens when the new covenant goes into effect and that only happened after Jesus died, was resurrected, and ascended to heaven.

In fact Jesus tells his students, including Peter.

John 16:5-7(KJV) reads:

Quote

But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou? But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart. Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

So though Jesus did teach the Word of God, which is spirit and therefore life, it is not the same as having the spirit of Righteousness guiding your every action.

Please note that even though Peter and not yet received the spirit of righteousness he had shown that he was a man of faith and so was credited with righteousness just like Abraham before him.

[NickHassan]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 07 2010,05:16)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 07 2010,00:01) Hi KW, Jn13 “He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet” And yet Peter had not received the Spirit of Holiness at that time since it was only sent after the death and resurrection of Jesus.

Hi KW,
By the words of Jesus we know he had been taught by God in Mt16-even though he was yet a carnal man. God trained Jesus and helped him avoid sin before he was anointed at the jordan too.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Even some who are baptised in the Spirit of God fall away [Mt25.1f]
It is the sons of God who are led by the Spirit[Rom8, Gal5].
The Spirit is given that we can become sons of God.[Jn3]

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 07 2010,05:37)

Terraricca wrote: Quote if i would believe what you say then i would be against Christ sacrifice, I fail to see your reasoning because I mentioned the need for the self sacrifice of Jesus when I wrote: Previously, Kerwin wrote: Quote Now into this time when we who hunger and thirst for righteousness despaired of ever obtaining our goal God sent his Son to deliver us from our wretched condition and so promised that obeyed all his Son’s commands we would be set free from obedience to sin and become instead servants to righteousness. Romans 7:24-25(NIV) reads: Quote What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!       So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. And Romans 5:8(NIV) reads: Quote But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. A promise is a covenant and the promise of righteousness is the covenant of the spirit of righteousness.  That covenant is sealed with Jesus’ blood and by it we are reconciled to God. Terraricca wrote: Quote you can only have faith in the promise ,when you understood what the promise is; then either you believe the promise or not, if you do, now you have faith in the promise and from now on you produce the deeds of that faith; the hypocrites say they have faith but do not produce the deeds of that faith. this is were the difference in true faith lays all what is promised is only possible of the grace of God so all glory should go to our heavenly Father ,Christ was and is the willing son who serves his Father always for this he also receive some glory, but the Father we worship. If I understand you correctly then I agree with all of this.

KW

is it possible to interpret what i have said differently???
as you could read it and understand it

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 07 2010,05:14)

Gene Balthrop wrote: Quote Kerwin……….I agree with you brother, “FOR WE HOPE FOR THAT RIGHTEOUSNESS TO (COME)”. Not as though we have already obtained it, But we are kept for that righteousness to be revealed in US, which is of GOD and not of ourselves. I disagree and agree.  I disagree because when a student of Jesus is reborn in Spirit they posses that righteousness that is to come because they posses the Spirit of righteousness.   I agree because they student must still become mature and learn to walk according to the ways of that righteousness at all times.  I also admit that there may be those who are fully mature even from the moment they are reborn.

KW

you believe;I also admit that there may be those who are fully mature even from the moment they are reborn.

to me the true shepherd is leading to make you know the word of God.so Christ frees you of the world and men.

the false teachers like to enslave you so you fallow them constantly and so you give them access to all your own either in your hearth or your wallet.and so you now fallow men.

the scripture should be our light.

[kerwin]

Nick Hassan wrote:

Quote

By the words of Jesus we know he had been taught by God in Mt16-even though he was yet a carnal man.

I agree that this is true of Peter and many others.

Nick Hassan wrote:

Quote

God trained Jesus and helped him avoid sin before he was anointed at the Jordan too.

I disagree with you here as I believe that Jesus did not sin even though he was fully tempted as we are because he walked according to the spirit of righteousness.   This is only possible if he had the spirit from at least the point where he had the ability to sin.

Nick Hassan wrote:

Quote

Even some who are baptized in the Spirit of God fall away [Mt25.1f] It is the sons of God who are led by the Spirit[Rom8, Gal5]. The Spirit is given that we can become sons of God.[Jn3]

I agree with all of this.

[Author]

Posts