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kerwin
Terraricca wrote:Quote
Do you believe that God rescuing our spirit from body is the resurrection.
were did i wrote this
?could you show me this is not my believe at all.you are taking your interpretation on your logic not all the meaning of scriptures but i will not try to convince you ,out of your view you will probably see it lather.
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 23 2010,01:22) kerwin Kerwin wrote
Quote Do you believe that God rescuing our spirit from body is the resurrection.
were did i wrote this
?could you show me this is not my believe at all.you are taking your interpretation on your logic not all the meaning of scriptures but i will not try to convince you ,out of your view you will probably see it lather.
Considering that 1 Timothy 2:5 calls Jesus a human being after his resurrection and you state he is not I would conclude it is you that is basic your beliefs on you own understanding and not the word of God.I asked the question about God rescuing the spirit because your viewpoint is not in scripture. I know of no scripture that refers to Jesus as a spiritual being while there are scriptures that call him both human and the Son of Mankind.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Hi KW,
He did more than eat with them.
He showed them the many holes in it.
Is that the sort of body you hope to inherit?We hope for a new IMPERISHABLE one.[1Cor15]
I mentioned that as evidence Jesus had an imperishable body since if it was a mortal body he would have still been dead. An immortal body can not even killed by massive wounds.
As for the spiritual flesh having holes in it that is up to God who is just. I personally believe that it will have only those holes in it that God sees a purpose for.
Hi KW,
Logic is insufficient .
As shown in Acts 2 the promise was that the flesh of the anointed one would not suffer decay and he would not be abandoned to Hades.
[Acts 2.31f]Both were fulfilled and the body he died in is the same he was resurrected into.
Kerwin ………..You have it right , Jesus has a BODY + Spirit He is a loving Soul. He is son of Man and does now and alway will have a Body, Just as he said He had and body that had Flesh and Bone, Spirits have not flesh and bone as Jesus said. Believe scripture, many false assumption have been made by false religions. IMO
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Logic is insufficient.
That is a foolish statement as it makes it seem as if you believe God is a God of confusion.
The definition I am using for logic is “the science of correct reasoning; science which describes relationships among propositions in terms of implication, contradiction, contrariety, conversion, etc.” That definition among others is here.
Perhaps you mean something else.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote As shown in Acts 2 the promise was that the flesh of the anointed one would not suffer decay and he would not be abandoned to Hades. [Acts 2.31f]
I agree that Jesus flesh never saw decay but I believe that was because it was changed from mortal flesh to immortal flesh while he was still in the grave and since death cannot hold the immortal he came out of the grave alive.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Both were fulfilled and the body he died in is the same he was resurrected into.
It is written that both were fulfilled but it is not written that his body was resurrected into corruptible flesh. On the other hand it is written that we will change from perishable flesh into imperishable flesh when the dead rise from the grave.
This is the page I was unable to link to.
kerwin
this will go to the understanding of the scriptures and not on the base of the word for word statment.
i do believe that Christ as been resurected and appeared to his aposteles but not in the same body in wich he died,and that there is no flesh in heaven of any kind ,but that there is a sort of angel body not clearly define in scriptures,and that with God permission same angels can take a body of flesh
and bone structure without the need of having the blood to provide live to the body,sinse they already have a body working,
and that is what i think Christ did,
Paul explain that the seed who as live in it self as to die to releast it and it can not for that reason be reused.but the live receives the power to renew it self and become live as in is nature.Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 24 2010,16:27) Nick Hassan wrote: Quote Logic is insufficient.
That is a foolish statement as it makes it seem as if you believe God is a God of confusion.
The definition I am using for logic is “the science of correct reasoning; science which describes relationships among propositions in terms of implication, contradiction, contrariety, conversion, etc.” That definition among others is here.
Perhaps you mean something else.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote As shown in Acts 2 the promise was that the flesh of the anointed one would not suffer decay and he would not be abandoned to Hades. [Acts 2.31f]
I agree that Jesus flesh never saw decay but I believe that was because it was changed from mortal flesh to immortal flesh while he was still in the grave and since death cannot hold the immortal he came out of the grave alive.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Both were fulfilled and the body he died in is the same he was resurrected into.
It is written that both were fulfilled but it is not written that his body was resurrected into corruptible flesh. On the other hand it is written that we will change from perishable flesh into imperishable flesh when the dead rise from the grave.
This is the page I was unable to link to.
Hi KW,
Logic is not truth but man's perception of truth.
They are of puny man's thoughts and not God's.
His thoughts and ways are higher than ours.We do not hope to inherit a damaged mortal body.
Hi KW,
To sustain our mortal earthly bodies we must eat, and Jesus ate with his brothers.
He showed them his flesh and bones which are not of heaven but again of earth.
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom but you would oppose this?[1Cor15]Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom but you would oppose this?[1Cor15]
You take away from scripture as 1 Corinthians 15:50 also states “neither doth corruption inherit incorruption” so yes Paul speaks true as corruptible flesh and blood does not inherit the kingdom of heaven. It is the incorruptible flesh and bone that will inherit because those that believe will changed from the perishable to the imperishable.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote To sustain our mortal earthly bodies we must eat, and Jesus ate with his brothers.
Why do you think he must eat when he stood there bearing mortal wounds that killed him in the first place? He stood there alive only because he inhabited immortal flesh that could not be killed even with mortal wounds inflicted on it. He ate just like the angels that supped with Lot in the days of Sodom and Gomorrah. I doubt either needed the food to sustain their body as they were sustained by the word of God, Deuteronomy 8:3.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Logic is not truth but man's perception of truth.
The definition I gave you does not say that logic is truth. Rather it states logic is a way of obtaining the truth. You obtain the truth by logic with true prepositions and valid reasoning. It is like math where you insert numbers and signs into an equation to get the correct answer. I short it is a tool that is used properly can reveal the obvious truths.
One example of correctly applied logic is Acts 2:27-31. Jesus also uses logic in Matthew 22:31-33. I am sure there many other examples of the use of logical reasoning in scriptures.
Hi KW,
Flesh is of earth and it is corruptible by nature.Flesh cannot inherit the kingdom.
Corruption indeed cannot inherit incorruption.
There is no incorruptible flesh as it returns to dust by God'a commandThe flesh of Jesus was not corrupted to fulfill scripture to prove he was the one spoken of[Acts2]
The torn flesh Jesus stood in and ate in was the flesh nature of Adam.
It is the Spirit of God that gave like to his mortal body again.Though we do not know exactly how we will be we do know we will be like the man from heaven.
He is not now of earthly flesh.Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 25 2010,12:33) Nick Hassan wrote: Quote Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom but you would oppose this?[1Cor15]
You take away from scripture as 1 Corinthians 15:50 also states “neither doth corruption inherit incorruption” so yes Paul speaks true as corruptible flesh and blood does not inherit the kingdom of heaven. It is the incorruptible flesh and bone that will inherit because those that believe will changed from the perishable to the imperishable.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote To sustain our mortal earthly bodies we must eat, and Jesus ate with his brothers.
Why do you think he must eat when he stood there bearing mortal wounds that killed him in the first place? He stood there alive only because he inhabited immortal flesh that could not be killed even with mortal wounds inflicted on it. He ate just like the angels that supped with Lot in the days of Sodom and Gomorrah. I doubt either needed the food to sustain their body as they were sustained by the word of God, Deuteronomy 8:3.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Logic is not truth but man's perception of truth.
The definition I gave you does not say that logic is truth. Rather it states logic is a way of obtaining the truth. You obtain the truth by logic with true prepositions and valid reasoning. It is like math where you insert numbers and signs into an equation to get the correct answer. I short it is a tool that is used properly can reveal the obvious truths.
One example of correctly applied logic is Acts 2:27-31. Jesus also uses logic in Matthew 22:31-33. I am sure there many other examples of the use of logical reasoning in scriptures.
hi KW,
It is a delusion to think application of weak human logic will extract truth from what is written.Let scripture speak and support itself with multiple verses.
Ignorant men limited by their senses to earth can only destroy beauty with their vain logic.
Nick……….Where does it say (FLESH) can not inherit the Kingdom of GOD , When i read it it say (Flesh and blood) Jesus plainly said, after going through a door and the apostles thought they had seen a Spirit, “a Spirit does not have flesh and bone as you see i Have”. And it was that same body that ascended up into heaven. You are fixed on thinking a SPIRIT (IS) a Being when in fact a Spirit is what is (IN) a Being.
Nick it can also be understood where it says Flesh and Blood cannot enter into the Kingdom of GOD, is Because the Kingdom of GOD inters into US, It comes into Us without observation, but flesh and blood can not enter into IT. Another word GOD must come into Us we can not go into HIM. Just something to think about.
peace and love to you and your…………………gene
G,
Why would you want to have a body that requires daily feeding and cares?
We will be like to the angels and they have no such physical demands.Nick……….I did not say our new bodies would need daily feeding and care, Nor did Jesus say that , but he said we will be as the angles are, they could eat and drink if they wanted to, Jesus himself said He would not drink of wine until he drinks it a new in the Kingdom of GOD with his disciples. Nick a body is not a bad thing to have. In fact as i have tried to explain before a SPIRIT must have a BODY to Inhabit in order for It to be a SOUL. We will all have bodies that contain Flesh and Bone, now what type of Flesh and bone i am not sure of But we are told it will be the same as Jesus' is. “FOR WE SHALL SEE HIM (AS) HE (IS)”. Remember it say “For God gives it a body Just as He pleases and to each a Body of HIS OWN”. If we are to exist in the future as a LIVING SOULS we must have a BODY of some kind brother> IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote It is a delusion to think application of weak human logic will extract truth from what is written.
Logic is neither human nor weak but rather it is a tool that can be used by humans, angels, or anyone else for that matter.
I admit an argument can be weak or it can be strong depending on the factors involved in it.
If your premises are true and based on godly principals and your reasoning is valid then your conclusion also will be true and based on godly principals.
On the other hand if your reasoning is based on worldly principals then your conclusion will be worldly.
Your fear of the later causes you to toss out the earlier and thus lead you astray. Jesus and his students used logical reasoning to correctly interpret scriptures while the Pharisees took your point of view and went by the letter and not the spirit and thus were ensnared by Satan.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Flesh is of earth and it is corruptible by nature.
That is a Gnostic tenet, see note, but” is it supported in scripture?”.
Scripture does state that all creation has been subject to corruption, Romans 8:21, and it is my belief that Adam’s sin is what subjected it. On the other hand that same scripture also literally states it will be delivered from that corruption. I speak of its deliverance and not its bondage to corruption.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote There is no incorruptible flesh as it returns to dust by God'a command
Have you not read scripture where it states “There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body”? Why are you deniing the existence of the spiritual body?
1 Corinthians 15:35-44(KJV) reads:
Quote But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.Note the Gnostics believed the material world was corrupt and the spiritual would was holy.
Terrarica,
I can merely speculate on the nature of angels based on a few scriptures that tell of them. About the spiritual body I know little but by definition a body has flesh. All I know about the spiritual flesh is that it is immortal. Like you I assume that mankind will have flesh just like the angels do. It is possible that the angels can change shape and that humans will be able to do that as well.
Still, though we may resemble angels I do not believe we will become angels.
I also believe that there will be a new heaven and a new earth but I do not know if or how they will resemble the current ones. I do know they will not be subject to corruption as is currently the case.
In Hebrews 1:5 and other scriptures the writer strives to teach us that Jesus is not an angel.
Hebrews 1:5(NIV) reads:
Quote For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father? Or again,Isn’t your belief in contradiction to that teaching?
Hi KW,
The new spiritual body is not of the dust of the condemned old earth but is imperishable as with the man from heaven, a body now made asexual and alike to the angels[1Cor15]
Indeed all nature shall be delivered from corruption during the 1000 year reign of King Jesus and the last enemy to be destroyed is death.
The child will enter the lair of the asp and the lion shall lie down with the lamb.Hi KW,
The seed must fall to the ground and die for the new life form to grow from it.
It is sown in the earth death as perishable and raised imperishable.
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom.[1Cor15]
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