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Hi ED J
Thanks for your suggestion, but I specifically want to address the
significance behind the “ONLY BEGOTTEN”!Hi Jodi,
So it is not those who are blessed with the Spirit of God and who have tasted the powers from above but those who are LED by that Spirit that are God's sons. Only half the bridesmaids maintained their oil supply.Quote (Jodi Lee @ Feb. 02 2010,12:50) Hi Patrick! Nice to hear from you. I have not moved on just yet. Doing some more reading of scripture focusing on this topic.
Why do you think Jesus is called the Only Begotten Son?
Maybe I should take a poll to see what people think.
The options would be
1. Because he pre-existed as a spirit son?
2. Because he was born of a virgin by the Holy Spirit?
3. Because the Holy Spirit descended on him at the river Jordon
4. Because he was raised from the dead and given eternal life?I don't believe that neither 1 or 2 are true.
How about the rest of you?
Jodi! I believe He is the begotten Son of God is because He was brought forth from God the Father. Even though it says in Rev. 3:14 and Col. 1:15 that He was created it still says that He is the begotten Son of God also. Begotten, but yet the firstborn of all creation.
Peace and Love Irenehi
Christ was the only begotten son or being,created by God directly,because in the beginning there was only but God,so took from himself to create Christ ,from then on he took from Christ to create all others',this is why it say that all was created trough him(Christ)
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Joined: Feb. 2009 Posted: Feb. 02 2010,14:16——————————————————————————–
Hi ED JThanks for your suggestion, but I specifically want to address the
significance behind the “ONLY BEGOTTEN”!Hi Jodi,
Good to see your reply!
In answering your question about which one from the list, I would go with #2. With the Greek word, Monogenas used, I get the understanding that his conception & birth was not a prototype, but a singly unique event never duplicated (past, present or future).
That being said, I do believe his bodily resurrection represents a prototypical event in that he is the first begotten from the dead (which draws out the inference that there will be others following).
In regards to what you said about the references to “thou art my son, today have I begotten you” in Hebrews, and in the book of Acts, I don't quite understand how you drew the conclusion that these references refer solely to Jesus's receiving the spirit upon baptism. This phrase is quotation out of Psalm 2:7. In reading this entire Psalm, I get the understanding that this is a Messianic Psalm that gives a declaration of the glorious feats of the Lord's Messiah (the one whom God chooses to place upon His throne in Zion [Jerusalem], and that would rule over the nations). David was given this title: “Lord's messiah” [“Christ” in the Greek], but neither David, nor the other “messiahs” ; that is, future rulers on the throne of David, accomplished the awesome conquests described in this Psalm. This is why I believe the Psalm points to the Lord's ultimate Messiah, Jesus the Christ.
Jesus did not accomplish the things described in this Psalm during the time period of his first coming. He will, however, accomplish these things when he returns to the earth and is installed on Yahweh's “Holy Hill”, Zion. At that time, Jesus will “declare the decree” in public for all to hear (this decree had been announced to him previously by His Father, “Thou art my Son, This day have I begotten thee”)
The question then arises: “When did His Father make this declaration to him?” I believe it happened during the time period outlined by Paul's “glad tidings” declaration of Acts 13:30-34; that is, the resurrection.
v.33: “God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus; as it is also written in the second Psalm: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten you.”
Pat
Hi GT,
God announced publically at the Jordan and on the mountain that Jesus was His Son.
We should believe Him.The Jordan anointing is what we can follow him into becoming adopted sons if we are led by the Spirit as he was.
hi nick
i find that many people are venting in the topics,looking more for conversation than for truth.
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 03 2010,16:33) hi nick i find that many people are venting in the topics,looking more for conversation than for truth.
Why do you say that? Can you look into someones Heart? I don't think so. But however what is going on that no one wants to learn from another. Most only have their own understand even if they have to interpret Scripture the way it is not written. You can give them Scriptures that plainly say for instance that Christ did preexisted His Birth here on earth, and they ignore it. And so it goes with the trinity doctrine.
1 Thes.5:21 tells us to prove all things, but do most, IMO no.
Peace and Love IreneIrene
i guess it is Jesus versus the pharisees,
if you do not believe the scriptures you have to fill in the blanks with your own interpretation,if you admit that the scriptures are not true and corrupt then nothing is true,this way of seeing it will make Satan the winner over all who believe that.
AS FOR ME I BELIEVE THE SCRIPTURES IS THE WORD OF GOD AS IT IS, INCLUDING THE CORUPTION,WHAT IS KNOWN TO THE RIGHTEOUS AND THEY CAN SEE TROUGH IT, SO THEY DO NOT HAVE THAT PROBLEM.
YOU RIGHT I CAN NOT SEE WHAT IS IN YOUR HEART ,BUT Jesus SAID ,””THAT FROM THE ABONDENCE OF THE HEART THE MOUNTH SPEAKS””or written.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart
Nick & Terrica,
Perhaps you're not considering what I'm challenging Jodi on. She made a statement in a previous post that the declaration in PS 2:7 and in Hebrews 1:5 / 5:5 “Thou art my Son; This day have I begotten thee” directly relates Jesus's baptismal experience in the Jordan.
My contention with this statement is a follows: These words are not what God uttered during this time in Jordan. He said, “This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased”. He did not say during this occasion, “this day have I begotten thee”.
In comparing the two, there's a considerable difference in the significance of meaning and in the timing when these laudatory remarks were made.
THE DECREE OF PS 2:7 “Thou art my Son; This day have I begotten you”. I find it interesting that this announcement (decree) is quoted twice in the book of Hebrews because of it's association with three major points that this book brings to light, that being:
1. The superiority of Jesus Christ to the Angels (Hebrews 1:5 – Chapter 2)
2. The superiority of Jesus Christ (as High Apostle) to Moses (Chapter 3)
3. The superiority of Jesus Christ's High Priestly ministry to the old order of servicie, the Aaronic Priesthood. Chapter 5:5 & following.
The beginning of this superiority rests with God's pre-determinate counsel regarding His Son. One could perhaps argue that Jesus inherited (in his birth) a more excellent name than they (the angels Hebrews 1:4). In this regard, it would be fitting that the birth of His Son would call for an occasion of declaring the laudatory praise: “Thou art my Son, This day have I begotten thee”. (v.5) Perhaps this is the reason that the angelic praise accompanied the birth record of Jesus ( Luke 2:10-15), in that it was a joyous reverberation of the (previous) heavenly utterance? After all, it does say in Hebrews 1:6: “And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, “And let all the angels of God worship him.”
As logical as this sounds, I wouldn't bank on this previous conclusion, because it is not drawn upon direct (Biblical) reference. To my knowledge, nowhere in Luke 2 (or anywhere else in the gospels) does it say that God uttered these words at the (first) birth of His Son. (Please let me know if anybody finds them recorded on this particular occasion). Also, the setting of Hebrews Chapter One seems to be in the vicinity of the Heavenly Throne Room, where Jesus “Sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high”. Perhaps this more excellent name that he inherited is yet secret, and will be revealed to his faithful servants (as it says in Revelation 3:12, and 19:12) when he returns give rewards.
I can confidently assert this however: God uttered these words to Jesus, “Thou art My Son, This day have I begotten thee”, at some point in time after the resurrection because Acts 13 makes this very clear:
Verse 28: “And though they found no ground for putting him to death,they asked Pilate that He be executed. And when they had carried out all that was written concerning him, they took Him down from the cross and laid him in a tomb. But God raised him from the dead; and for many days He appeared to those who came up with him to Galilee to Jerusalem, the very ones who are now His witnesses to the people. And we preach to you good news of the promise made to the fathers, that God has fulfilled this promise to our children in that He raised up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, 'Thou art My Son; today have I begotten thee', verse 34: “And as for the fact that He raised him up from the dead, no more to return to decay, He has spoken in this way: “I will give you the Holy and Sure blessings of David.” Therefore He also says in another Psalm, 'Thou wilt not allow thy Holy one to undergo decay.' For David, after he had served the purpose of God in his own generation, fell asleep, and was laid among his fathers, and underwent decay; but He whom God raised did not undergo decay.”
Once again, may I exhort you to go back and re-read my previous post and read the second Psalm again. The setting of this Psalm (when applied to The Messiah) is definitely a time period when Jesus returns to the earth (post resurrection) to exert His Authority to rule over the nations.
Psalms 2:7: “I will declare the decree, the LORD has said to me [past tense], You are My Son; Today I have begotten you.”
When did God actually declare this decree to Jesus? IMO, it probably happened sometime after his 40 day appearances to his disciples, and before the day of Pentacost. Either way, it's pretty cool when you stop and think about it for a bit. Probably the first time it was uttered, it was uttered in a heavenly coronation ceremony with all the heavely hosts witnessing and worshipping. The second time this decree will be uttered, it will be on earth by Jesus himself (and probably just before He takes his seat in Jerusalem to commence his reign over the nations).
Blessings,
Pat
Hi Pat!
Excellent post!!
Acts 13:28 And though they found no cause for death in Him, they asked Pilate that He should be put to death. 29 Now when they had fulfilled all that was written concerning Him, they took Him down from the tree and laid Him in a tomb. 30 But God raised Him from the dead. 31 He was seen for many days by those who came up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are His witnesses to the people. 32 And we declare to you glad tidings–that promise which was made to the fathers. 33 God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm: 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.' 34 And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus: 'I will give you the sure mercies of David.' 35 Therefore He also says in another Psalm: 'You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption.'
Romans 1:1 Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God 2 which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, 4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.
Jodi,
I didn't mean to use the word “contention” in my previous post. “argument” might have been a little better. I'm not upset, and I'm still thankful to get insights from your posts.
Blessings to you!
Patrick
Thanks Jodi,
I really got blessed when Father opened this to my understanding. I think there's still interesting insights that can be gleaned from this…..I'd be blessed to hear anything you come up with.
That record in Romans is really interesting. Do you think “Son of God with power” is a new title given to him post resurrection ? It sure seems that way.
Patrick
Hi GT,
Surely the first time God declared Jesus to be His Son must be AFTER when he was begotten as a son-the Jordan.
As Jodi showed his resurrection from the dead confirms that he is that Son, the great prophet spoken of by Moses and Peter in Acts 2.
Since our sonship is in following him and we can also be reborn of water and the Spirit it seems the Jordan is the time, not of his conception but his begettal as a son.GT………I agree with Jodi and Nick also on this , I believe it was when he was baptized in the Jordan, after that He was sent into the world to proclaim the Gospel to ALL. At that time He became a begotten son of GOD. WE also who have GOD'S Seed in us are Begotten of HIM even now also, and will like Jesus be Born as fully born son at the resurrection. God begets us through HIS (HOLY SPIRIT) Or SEED. Jesus is the FIRST fully BORN into the family of GOD The FATHER From His earthly creation.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 03 2010,13:04) Hi GT,
Surely the first time God declared Jesus to be His Son must be AFTER when he was begotten as a son-the Jordan.
As Jodi showed his resurrection from the dead confirms that he is that Son, the great prophet spoken of by Moses and Peter in Acts 2.
Since our sonship is in following him and we can also be reborn of water and the Spirit it seems the Jordan is the time, not of his conception but his begettal as a son.
Nick,
Your understanding leads to Jesus being the first begotten son, not the ONLY begotten son. He is never called the first begotten son Nick.LU……….The word (ONLY) is more appropriately (uniquely) because scriptures say ADAM was also a SON OF GOD, right?
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