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Matthew 3:16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
Mark 1:9 It came to pass in those days that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10 And immediately, coming up from the water, He saw the heavens parting and the Spirit descending upon Him like a dove. 11 Then a voice came from heaven, “You are My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
Luke 3:21 When all the people were baptized, it came to pass that Jesus also was baptized; and while He prayed, the heaven was opened. 22 And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”
2 Peter 1:16 For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17 For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
Hebrews 1:5 For to which of the angels did He ever say: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You“? And again: “I will be to Him a Father, And He shall be to Me a Son”?
1 John 4:9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Hebrews 5: 4 And no man takes this honor to himself, but he who is called by God, just as Aaron was. 5 So also Christ did not glorify Himself to become High Priest, but it was He who said to Him: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.“ 6 As He also says in another place: “You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek”; 7 who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, 8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, 10 called by God as High Priest “according to the order of Melchizedek,” 11 of whom we have much to say, and hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.
Scripture makes it clear that the DAY of “Today I have begotten you” represents the day Jesus was at the Jordon and received YHWH’s Holy Spirit. The DAY that Jesus became God’s Only Begotten Son was the day he was at the river Jordon and YHWH’s Spirit descended upon him. The Spirit begets man as a Son of God .
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs–heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. 18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Jesus began his Priesthood after becoming God’s Son at the Jordon. YHWH SENT the begotten Son into the world from upon that DAY. There exists NO sending of a pre-existing son to earth.
Luke 4:18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And recovery of sight to the blind, To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
From upon receiving the Spirit Jesus WAS SENT by YHWH into the world.
John 17:16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
Luke 4:43 but He said to them, “I must preach the kingdom of God to the other cities also, because for this purpose I have been sent.”
John 3: 33 He who has received His testimony has certified that God is true. 34 For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure.
John 4:34 Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work.
John 6:37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
2 Timothy 1:8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
1 Peter 1:19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 20He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
Through Jesus we are to believe in the One True God who raised Jesus from the dead.
Jesus was SENT from heaven, meaning He was sent FROM God. Jesus came down from heaven, meaning he came from God. What came from heaven or rather what came from God was the promise God had made before time began. Scripture directly tells us that it was a MAN who would die on the cross, that would be sent into the world, and that before time began a MAN, who would be anointed with the Holy Spirit, would one day come and be sent out into the world.
When Jesus was ANOINTED with the Holy Spirit he became God’s“begotten” Son, and it was AT THAT POINT God SENT out His Son into the world of which would cause hatred among men who’d then plot to kill him. When God SENT His Only Begotten Son, in no way does scripture show He sent down
from heaven a god son or spirit son to be morphed into a human being.Acts 10:36 The word which God sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ–He is Lord of all– 37 that word you know, which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached: 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. 39 And we are witnesses of all things which He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem, whom they killed by hanging on a tree. 40 Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly, 41 not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before by God, even to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. 42 And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living and the dead. 43 To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.”
We are to believe in the MAN that was raised from the dead that was given eternal life. We believe in Jesus as “THE ANOINTED”. We believe in this NAME, that indeed Jesus was the MAN GIVEN the Holy Spirit at the Jordon becoming THEN begotten as God’s Son. To turn God’s Only Begotten Son into an immortal spirit being or into the One True God is ANTI CHRIST, it is NOT believing in the True Christ.
Acts 13:33 God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm: 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.' 34 And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus: 'I will give you the sure mercies of David.' 35 Therefore He also says in another Psalm: 'You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption.' 36 “For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption; 37 but He whom God raised up saw no corruption. 38 Therefore let it be known to you, brethren,that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; 39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
Hebrews 10:12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever sat down at the right hand of God,
Revelation 5:5 But one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.
Revelation 22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
A MAN sat down at the right hand of God. A MAN was raised from the dead. A MAN is an eternal high priest.Hebrews 6:19 This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil, 20 where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
What we believe as in WHO was sent is crucial. Was God sent to die for us? Was an immortal spirit son sent to die for us? Or was a MAN who could do NOTHING of himself who had been anointed with the Holy Spirit SENT into the world to die for us?
Jodi………You have Just preached the true Gospel to us. It was the MAN Jesus Christ of the SEED of DAVID that GOD on the day of HIS baptism in the Jordan said “THOU ART ME SON THIS DAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU”. And it was (THAT DAY) Jesus became a SON of the LIVING GOD, And GOD sent him out into the World to preach the good new of the kingdom of GOD. You have it exactly right Jodi. To bad these deluded Trinitarians and Preexistences can't see and understand that. It will be good when all this (MYSTERY RELIGION) under the cloak of “CHRISTIANITY” is devolved and the truth is know by all and taught clearly. Good JOB Jodi.
peace an dlove to you and yours………………………….gene
Hi Jodi:
You say:
Quote When Jesus was ANOINTED with the Holy Spirit he became God’s“begotten” Son, and it was AT THAT POINT God SENT out His Son into the world of which would cause hatred among men who’d then plot to kill him. When God SENT His Only Begotten Son, in no way does scripture show He sent down from heaven a god son or spirit son to be morphed into a human being. I agree. This is when he was sent into the world.
Love in Christ,
MartyJodi
This is what you said;
“””Jesus was SENT from heaven, meaning He was sent FROM God. Jesus came down from heaven, meaning he came from God. What came from heaven or rather what came from God was the promise God had made before time began. Scripture directly tells us that it was a MAN who would die on the cross, that would be sent into the world, and that before time began a MAN, who would be anointed with the Holy Spirit, would one day come and be sent out into the world.”””“Jesus” is the name he was given after he was born a man. What God send to us was his son, John referred to him as the “WORD” because he was the one that spoke for God, and only what God told him to say. The Bible says, God “sent” his only begotten son; how could he have sent his son if he had not yet existed? If you believe God can make man into spirit beings, why do you think he can't make spirit beings into man? As a spirit being Jesus could not have died for us, also, he came to die for human beings which is the other reason he had to become one of us.
Then you said this;
“””When Jesus was ANOINTED with the Holy Spirit he became God’s“begotten” Son, and it was AT THAT POINT God SENT out His Son into the world of which would cause hatred among men who’d then plot to kill him. When God SENT His Only Begotten Son, in no way does scripture show He sent down from heaven a god son or spirit son to be morphed into a human being.”””Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit at his baptism, that is when he became officially the Messiah, as right afterward his ministry started.
Have you looked up the definition of “begotten” in your dictionary? it means, to generate an offspring. How could God have sent his offspring had he not existed?Then you said this;
“””Scripture makes it clear that the DAY of “Today I have begotten you” represents the day Jesus was at the Jordon and received YHWH’s Holy Spirit. The DAY that Jesus became God’s Only Begotten Son was the day he was at the river Jordon and YHWH’s Spirit descended upon him. The Spirit begets man as a Son of God.”””How do you square what you claim with these scriptures?
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;What does “THE BEGINNING OF GOD'S CREATION” mean to you?
Do you believe he was the firstborn from the dead? meaning, received life again after he had died?
Then what does firstborn of every creature mean to you? You have children, do you not? how many firstborn do you have?
How could God have created all things through him had he not yet existed?
What do you make of these scriptures?Psa 82:1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.The word or title “god”, does not always refer to the most “High God” Jehovah.
Also, nowhere in the Bible does it state that the son, or any other spirit being was immortal; I said was because Jesus “now is” immortal.Jhn 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself (immortality); so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself (immortality);
Had Jesus been immortal before, he could have never died for us. That is what immortality means, death is impossible. That was the sons reward, immortality, a divine spirit body that shines as the sun in full strength.
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
Now, I just want you to know, you do not hurt my feelings if you don't believe scripture because I am not the one who wrote them; but keep in mind, by not believing them, you call God a liar.
Georg
Jodi,
I was riding along on a wave of extacy for what you wrote above — right up until the last line………
I agree with everything (as far as my lazy reading goes) you said. It was marvelous.
However, I'm not sure I understand where you went on the last line.
Are you saying that Jesus did't previously exist before coming to earth as a man?
Does the scriptures not say (phil 2:6-7
“but being found in the form of God … made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness”Does Jesus not say also (John 17:5):”And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began”
And again,
(1 Peter 1:18 – 20)”For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the
empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb
without blemish or defect.
He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake”My point is that I do think that Jesus was in Spirit form (The Form of God – God is Spirit – that is: a Spirit Being – Not “THE HOLY SPIRIT” which is FROM him – is His.) before coming to earth – I was confused as to what you meant in your last line of excellent composition.
can you clarify, please?
JA………Jesus was (FOREORDAINED) (in the plan of GOD not as preexistent being) and was at the right time (MANIFESTED) brought into existence, is what peter was talking about. Not of the apostles or Jesus himself ever said He (PREEXISTED HIS BERTH) it is not written in any scripture, so those who believe it this must make assertions through scriptures the can be twisted to mean it , but do not specifically say it. This is called forcing the text. The way you can get around this is to takes all Scriptures relating to the ideology of a preexisting being and you will find it is Only GOD Himself who Preexisted and all humans came into existence at berth and that includes Jesus also no matter how much they were Prophesied to come into existence, they just didn't until they were born on the earth. This teaching of the preexistence of Jesus, is every bit as bad as the teaching of the TRINITY. Both are FALSE TEACHINGS> IMO
Quote (Gene @ Jan. 29 2010,03:56) JA………Jesus was (FOREORDAINED) (in the plan of GOD not as preexistent being) and was at the right time (MANIFESTED) brought into existence, is what peter was talking about. Not of the apostles or Jesus himself ever said He (PREEXISTED HIS BERTH) it is not written in any scripture, so those who believe it this must make assertions through scriptures the can be twisted to mean it , but do not specifically say it. This is called forcing the text. The way you can get around this is to takes all Scriptures relating to the ideology of a preexisting being and you will find it is Only GOD Himself who Preexisted and all humans came into existence at berth and that includes Jesus also no matter how much they were Prophesied to come into existence, they just didn't until they were born on the earth. This teaching of the preexistence of Jesus, is every bit as bad as the teaching of the TRINITY. Both are FALSE TEACHINGS> IMO
GeneAre you native American, I mean like, Indian medicine man?
Georg
Gene,
Thank you for your feedback on that issue.
I had considered that a long time ago and a couple of times after depending on what '”spirit” I was in but the rejected it outright.
I now do not entertain discussion on this topic as such as there is no way of 'Proving out roght' from the scriptures – All arguments will just run and run…
Somethings we just gotta let go – and believe on by faith and in light of new credible evidence or Holy Spirit inspired re-learning.
For me, on this topic, that hasn't happened yet. But if you think you are right then keep on 'exhauting' me.
God Bless.
Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 29 2010,02:24) Jodi, I was riding along on a wave of extacy for what you wrote above — right up until the last line………
I agree with everything (as far as my lazy reading goes) you said. It was marvelous.
However, I'm not sure I understand where you went on the last line.
Are you saying that Jesus did't previously exist before coming to earth as a man?
Does the scriptures not say (phil 2:6-7
“but being found in the form of God … made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness”Does Jesus not say also (John 17:5):”And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began”
And again,
(1 Peter 1:18 – 20)”For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the
empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb
without blemish or defect.
He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake”My point is that I do think that Jesus was in Spirit form (The Form of God – God is Spirit – that is: a Spirit Being – Not “THE HOLY SPIRIT” which is FROM him – is His.) before coming to earth – I was confused as to what you meant in your last line of excellent composition.
can you clarify, please?
Hi JustAskin,You asked, “Are you saying that Jesus did't previously exist before coming to earth as a man?”
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying!
What I believe scripture shows DID pre-exist, was a promise made by the Father to one day send a human savior.
I have made the point that no scripture says that the Father sent a spirit son to become a human. Scripture states that Jesus Christ was sent, and scripture states that it was Jesus Christ who was promised to be sent before time began. Jesus Christ is not a pre-existing spirit son, but is the man born of Mary who was anointed. As well we are told that before time began eternal life was promised unto man. The glory that existed in the beginning was God's Plan of eternal salvation of man, which was known to be in the coming of a man anointed with the Holy Spirit. When Jesus asks God to give him the glory he had in the beginning, wouldn't it be the glory that existed in the promise made in the beginning? Consider this, as I just said, eternal life to MAN was promised before time began, Jesus was the MAN raised from the dead given immortality. The glory Jesus was asking for was the glory that was promised in the beginning, eternal life for MAN!!!
2 Timothy 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
Titus 1:2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,
You bring up a great chapter Philippians 2, but before we look at that again let's consider what Hebrews chapter one tells us.
Hebrews 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
The person who is the brightness of the Father's glory and the express image of His person is not identified as a spirit son who became a man, but rather it is the MAN Jesus himself.
We are created creatures, where our flesh profits us nothing. The Spirit of God working in man, is what causes man to be able to act separate from the animals. All sin comes from man acting upon his carnal nature instead of acting upon the ways of God. Animals are completely ignorant to the laws and ways of God. Animals when in fear of death are known to eat their own young, animals kill other animals without any second thought or conscious awareness. Animals are territorial and will attempt to kill one of their own kind if they step into what they have marked as their territory. Male animals rape female animals dominating over them demanding submission, doing so not to just one partner but many. YHWH's goal is to remove from man carnal nature, and replace it with His OWN. The law was given to prove that man cannot with his own spirit keep the law. Jesus is our proof that MAN must have God's Spirit working in him in order to be made perfect.
Romans 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
The spirit of Christ we are to have, is of a man who denies his flesh just as he did, and follows after the will of the Father just as he did.
I believe it is crucial to understand that the person who was the brightness of God's glory was a human being. The person who was the express image of the Father was a human being.
Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
The OT tells us that it is God Himself who makes Kings rise and fall, it is He that gives them their wisdom, riches and power. We have examples in the OT of men receiving such authority only to turn vein and announce themselves as god and give no credit to the Most High. We are told that unto the Pharaoh and the people Moses was made a god, for he had been given by God, certain Powers. Upon receiving the Holy Spirit Jesus was given God's powers to a measure given to no other man. When he went out from the Jordon he did not consider himself equal to God, but he made himself a servant, using his powers only to serve God's will for the sake of man. Jesus did not use his powers for his own gain, which is something to be greatly noticed given the history of what all other men have done with the authori
ty God had bestowed upon them. What it must have felt like to Jesus when that Spirit descended upon him, it had to be something incredible and overwhelming, he had to have felt truly like God, even though he was in the appearance of a man. Unlike so many other men Jesus humbled himself, he remained true, not giving into vanity and deceit, but he kept to the truth that the powers he had were not his but his Father's and that he needed to use them only according to his Father's will.We bow not to some spirit being that disguised himself in human flesh, but we bow to the First MAN YHWH perfected. We bow to the MAN who gave his Father His rightful glory and honor.
That's my two cents anyway!
Hi Jodi,
You say“The spirit of Christ we are to have, is of a man who denies his flesh just as he did, and follows after the will of the Father just as he did.”
Yes this is impossible for men so we must be born again from above by the Holy Spirit.
We follow the one who died and yet lives
Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 29 2010,07:33) Jodi, Ok, I respect your view point.
That's my one cent!
Ah, I don't know if you were giving me a hint, but thanks anyway, I just realized I had written two “sense”….oops.Our Heavenly Father begot Himself a Son at the river Jordon, when He placed His Spirit into Jesus.
Before that time Jesus was the man PROMISED to become a Son of God.
Hebrews 1:5 For to which of the angels did He ever say: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You”? And again: “I will be to Him a Father, And He shall be to Me a Son”?
Not only was Jesus NOT official God's Son before the river Jordon. He certainly was not God's Son, before his birth.
As well, to be called Such a Son, means that you have been given the Holy Spirit to a measure that permanently unifies you into God's Will. Jesus tells us that in the resurrection we become like the angels NO LONGER able to die ANYMORE.
Jesus is no longer able to die anymore this is because he has been Perfected, meaning that NO SIN can ever be found in him. He is able to dwell in God's presence in heaven. Neither angels or Jesus can FALL from their Perfection and their Home that is with their Father.
To say such a thing would be an UTTER DISGRACE to our Heavenly Father.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 29 2010,10:22) Not only was Jesus NOT official God's Son before the river Jordon. He certainly was not God's Son, before his birth.
JodiThen what was the purpose of the virgin birth?
If Jesus was not the Fathers Son before the Jordan then how did he have a heavenly Father before then?
And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that “I must be about my Father's business?“ Luke 2:49
Blessings WJ
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 26 2010,13:17) Jesus was SENT from heaven, meaning He was sent FROM God. Jesus came down from heaven, meaning he came from God.
JodiSo in others words the following statement would be true…
I (Keith) came down from heaven to tell you about Jesus!
And…
What and if you see me (Keith) ascend up to where I was before?
Nope, not true at all!
Blessings WJ
WJ,
huh?
We see the Kingdom of God, the future kingdom of earth, as also being referred to as the Kingdom of Heaven.
We know that the word 'heaven' represents the sky, and as well a high place. The 'heaven' as mentioned above referring to the Kingdom, represents God, it represents the PLACE where God's Will exists.
Jesus was sent from heaven, meaning Jesus was sent from God.
Jesus came down from heaven, meaning Jesus came down from God.
Jesus was the man promised before time began to one day come, where did he come from? He came from God's plan and from God's will. He came from heaven.
You however WJ, teach that some person literally came down from heaven an morphed himself into an embryo.
I have direct scripture that states that Jesus the Christ, the human anointed with the Spirit, was promised before time began to one day come.
Do you have ONE scripture that states that a Spirit Son literally came down to earth? All scripture states that it was JESUS CHRIST that was SENT. No scripture states that an immortal Spirit Son was sent.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 29 2010,12:03) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 29 2010,10:22) Not only was Jesus NOT official God's Son before the river Jordon. He certainly was not God's Son, before his birth.
JodiThen what was the purpose of the virgin birth?
If Jesus was not the Fathers Son before the Jordan then how did he have a heavenly Father before then?
And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that “I must be about my Father's business?“ Luke 2:49
Blessings WJ
JodiWhat is the purpose of the virgin birth if he was not the Son of God when he was born, and what about him speaking about his heavenly Father before the Jordan?
Can you answer the questions?
WJ
Jodi
What do you mean “Huh”?
If God sent me to preach his Gospel then could I say…
“I (Keith) came down from heaven to tell you about Jesus!“
And…
“What and if you see me (Keith) ascend up to where I was before?“
Would the above statements be true?
Jesus said…
What and if ye shall see the Son of man “ascend up where he was before?“ John 6:62
Blessings WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 30 2010,04:03) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 29 2010,10:22) Not only was Jesus NOT official God's Son before the river Jordon. He certainly was not God's Son, before his birth.
JodiThen what was the purpose of the virgin birth?
If Jesus was not the Fathers Son before the Jordan then how did he have a heavenly Father before then?
And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that “I must be about my Father's business?“ Luke 2:49
Blessings WJ
Why the virgin birth then?Before I get into why the virgin birth, let me first say that my understanding of the conception is that if Jesus was truly a human being then what occurred when Mary became pregnant would be the Holy Spirit fertilizing Mary's egg with a human sperm. If I recollect from a post I made some time ago, I believe I reached the conclusion that a virgin birth was necessary because God had said that no person would be King from the blood line of Coniah (JeConiah). However God promised Solomon, of whom Coniah is a descendant of, that it would be his throne that would be an eternal throne. As well we know that it was of the blood of David that an eternal King was also promised. So according to God's declarations the eternal king needed to be of the blood of David but it could not come from the blood side of Solomon due to the curse put on his blood line. Joseph is a descendant of Coniah and therefore Solomon, and according to the law an adoptive child can be placed as a rightful king. Jesus being the son of Joseph but not of the blood of Joseph, keeps God's promise to Solomon. This is how I see that the virgin birth was necessary.
What makes Jesus the Son of God to my understanding is definitely not because what was conceived in Mary was something that was more than human. Jesus was not a Son of God because some immortal spirit son morphed himself into a human embryo.
“Today I have begotten you!” That DAY was at the river.
In regards to Luke 2:48 So when they saw Him, they were amazed; and His mother said to Him, “Son, why have You done this to us? Look, Your father and I have sought You anxiously.” 49 And He said to them, “Why did you seek Me? Did you not know that I must be about My Father's business?” 50 But they did not understand the statement which He spoke to them. 51 Then He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was subject to them, but His mother kept all these things in her heart. 52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.
I said that Jesus wasn't officially considered the Son of God until the river Jordon. Before that he was called the Son of God out of the Promise , the Promise of the Anointing. We too if we believe in Christ are called Sons of God, however we are not official until we too receive the Promise.
Just my two cents anyways. I know you'll completely disagree
Blessings to you, Jodi
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