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Quote (Guest @ July 28 2005,17:05) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2005,04:24) Quote (Guest @ July 28 2005,03:35) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2005,03:26) Hi,
God always had a better plan. He wanted rid of sin forever and so that happens when all are in the Son in Him. He has all creation in His crucible constantly getting rid of the dross.He is the “only begotten Son”. That preceeds his birth-monogenes in greek is unrelated to physical birth The Father was his physical Father by the spirit and Mary his mother. He was conceived.
He always was the Son of God but he became physically so as well. And he was reborn of water and the Spirit just as we must do if we follow him.
The Spirit serves God and helps us relate to God as the Spirit is of God. Reborn of that Spirit as he was makes us too sons of God.
I don't know why my posts are posting twice.Sir,
Why is Isaac called the monogenes of Abraham?
What is it about Isaac that is like the Son of God?Where does it say in the Word that he always was the Son of God?
Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Where does it say that He was the Son of God always?
Hi,
The only begotten son is spoken of by John
Jn 1 14
“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and we have seen his glory, glory as the only begotten from the Father”
He is that Word, only begotten from the Father. Of the Father only as spiritual being and sent from the Father to partake of flesh as a physical Son of God too.Isaac was not the first son nor the only son. But he was unique as the chosen one of God's line of inheritance.
I have to go, but 'pro' I go, I would ask you to prove to me from scripture that JEsus was the firstborn son of God from anyplace in scripture, for I cannot find it and it doesn't exist.
He existed, and He said that the scriptures testify of Him and He began at Moses to expound all that was written in the law and the prophets about Him after His resurrection, to those on the road to Emmaeus.Where is all that is written about Him from Moses on in the Old Testament?
What does it ALL say about Him?There is not one place that He is called the Son of God in the Old Testament who always existed as the Son of God.
There are the prophecies of His coming.
And there is the position of 'monogenes' that He would hold over this earth, but that is when he is born, from the virgin, as the seed of the woman, and as a human and becomes the Firstborn over this earth.Where is Adam among the sons of God, as I asked you, when the sons of God appeared before the lord of hosts? As son of God, why is Adam not there, nor his firstborn?
Did this earth have a 'firstborn' human after Adam died?What is it too be firstborn over this earth?
-A side note; Satan is called a Cherub, only, and Cherubim are called creeatures, not angels, and creatures is translated beasts, also, and Satan is the only one of them in rebellion, apparently, and led amny of the hosts of heaven into the rebellion, even the son of God, Adam.But you did not answer how sin entered this world, on biblical authority, nor how death entered this world, on biblical authority. Not by Satan, but both by Adam, for Adam, not Satan, was made the firstborn over this earth adn given the rule of this earth in the beginning.
And you did not answer why it was that Adam was given to eat freely of the fruit of the tree of life, and could live forever in his fallen state of being in that body if he had been allowed to remain in the Garden and partake of that tree's fruit in his fallen state.Why is it that Adam could not have access to what he was first given freely to eat of? He could eat freely, without restriction, to the tree of life. After he rebelled, he was not allowed to eat of that tree's fruit precisely because he was not going to be allowed to live forever in that fallen body, which was no longer allowed to have access to the spiritual realm or be represented among the sons of God.
Why did a Redeemer have to come to pay a price to Redeem Adam's kingdom and all mankind born of Adam?
What was the payment required to Redeem?
How was He able to pay it? Why was He the only one who could pay the price?The study:
Psa 89:27 Also I will make 05414 him [my] firstborn 01060, higher 05945 than the kings 04428 of the earth 0776.
When was He made the monogenes, higher than the kings of the earth?
I have to go, as I said, but the following is a study I did about the Firstborn, and only begotten, please study up on it, for there is just no place that it is said that Jesus was God's firstborn son before He came to dwell in the human body -prove otherwise, if you have Bible proof.
2Cr 12:2 I knew 1492 a man 444 in 1722 Christ 5547 above 4253 0 fourteen 1180 years 2094 ago 4253, (whether 1535 in 1722 the body 4983, I cannot 3756 tell 1492 ; or whether 1535 out 1622 of the body 4983, I cannot 3756 tell 1492 : God 2316 knoweth 1492 😉 such an one 5108 caught up 726 to 2193 the third 5154 heaven 3772.
Jam 5:12 But 1161 above 4253 all things 3956, my 3450 brethren 80, swear 3660 not 3361, neither 3383 by heaven 3772, neither 3383 by the earth 1093, neither 3383 by any 5100 other 243 oath 3727: but 1161 let 2277 0 your 5216 yea 3483 be 2277 yea 3483; and 2532 [your] nay 3756, nay 3756; lest 3363 ye fall 4098 into 1519 condemnation 5272.
1Pe 4:8 And 1161 above 4253 all things 3956 have 2192 fervent 1618 charity 26 among 1519 yourselves 1438: for 3754 charity 26 shall cover 2572 the multitude 4128 of sins 266.
Jhn 17:5 And 2532 now 3568, O Father 3962, glorify 1392 thou 4771 me 3165 with 3844 thine own self 4572 with the glory 1391 which 3739 I had 2192 with 3844 thee 4671 before 4253 the world 2889 was 1511 .
Jhn 17:24 Father 3962, I will 2309 that 2443 they also 2548, whom 3739 thou hast given 1325 me 3427, be 5600 with 3326 me 1700 where 3699 I 1473 am 1510 ; that 2443 they may behold 2334 my 1699 glory 1391, which 3739 thou hast given 1325 me 3427: for 3754 thou lovedst 25 me 3165 before 4253 the foundation 2602 of the world 2889.Eph 1:4 According as 2531 he hath chosen 1586 us 2248 in 1722 him 846 before 4253 the foundation 2602 of the world 2889, that we 2248 should be 1511 holy 40 and 2532 without blame 299 before 2714 him 846 in 1722 love 26:
2Ti 1:9 Who 3588 hath saved 4982 us 2248, and 2532 called 2564 [us] with an holy 40 calling 2821, not 3756 according to 2596 our 2257 works 2041, but 235 according to 2596 his own 2398 purpose 4286 and 2532 grace 5485, which 3588 was given 1325 us 2254 in 1722 Christ 5547 Jesus 2424 before 4253 the world began 5550 166,
Tts 1:2 In 1909 hope 1680 of eternal 166 life 2222, which 3739 God 2316, that cannot lie 893, promised 1861 before 4253 the world 166 began 5550;
1Pe 1:20 Who verily 3303 was foreordained 4267 before 4253 the foundatio
n 2602 of the world 2889, but 1161 was manifest 5319 in 1909 these last 2078 times 5550 for 1223 you 5209,Deu 25:6 And it shall be, [that] the firstborn 01060 which she beareth 03205 shall succeed 06965 in the name 08034 of his brother 0251 [which is] dead 04191 , that his name 08034 be not put out 04229 of Israel 03478.
Deu 21:16 Then it shall be, when 03117 he maketh his sons 01121 to inherit 05157 [that] which he hath, [that] he may 03201 not make the son 01121 of the beloved 0157 firstborn 01069 before 06440 the son 01121 of the hated 08130 , [which is indeed] the firstborn 01060:
2Sa 3:2 And unto David 01732 were sons 01121 born 03205 03205 in Hebron 02275: and his firstborn 01060 was Amnon 0550, of Ahinoam 0293 the Jezreelitess 03159;
1Ch 5:1 Now the sons 01121 of Reuben 07205 the firstborn 01060 of Israel 03478, (for he [was] the firstborn 01060; but, forasmuch as he defiled 02490 his father's 01 bed 03326, his birthright 01062 was given 05414 unto the sons 01121 of Joseph 03130 the son 01121 of Israel 03478: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned 03187 after the birthright 01062.
Job 18:13 It shall devour 0398 the strength 0905 of his skin 05785: [even] the firstborn 01060 of death 04194 shall devour 0398 his strength 0905.
Psa 89:27 Also I will make 05414 him [my] firstborn 01060, higher 05945 than the kings 04428 of the earth 0776.
Rom 8:29 For 3754 whom 3739 he did foreknow 4267 , he 4309 0 also 2532 did predestinate 4309 [to be] conformed 4832 to the image 1504 of his 846 Son 5207, that 1519 he 846 might be 1511 the firstborn 4416 among 1722 many 4183 brethren 80.
Col 1:15 Who 3739 is 2076 the image 1504 of the invisible 517 God 2316, the firstborn 4416 of every 3956 creature 2937:
Col 1:18 And 2532 he 846 is 2076 the head 2776 of the body 4983, the church 1577: who 3739 is 2076 the beginning 746, the firstborn 4416 from 1537 the dead 3498; that 2443 in 1722 all 3956 [things] he 846 might have 1096 the preeminence 4409 .
Hbr 12:23 To the general assembly 3831 and 2532 church 1577 of the firstborn 4416, which are written 583 in 1722 heaven 3772, and 2532 to God 2316 the Judge 2923 of all 3956, and 2532 to the spirits 4151 of just men 1342 made perfect 5048 ,
Proteuo 1) to be first, hold the first placeCol 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
1Ti 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, [be] honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Hbr 11:27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
The Messiah's Triumph and Kingdom
(Acts 4:23-31)
Why do the nations rage,
And the people plot a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
And the rulers take counsel together,
Against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying,
3 “Let us break Their bonds in pieces
And cast away Their cords from us.”
4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh;
The Lord shall hold them in derision.
5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath,
And distress them in His deep displeasure:
6 “Yet I have set My King
On My holy hill of Zion.”
7 “I will declare the decree:
The Lord has said to Me,
'You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
8 Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
9 You shall *break them with a rod of iron;
You shall dash them to pieces like a potter's vessel.'”
10 Now therefore, be wise, O kings;
Be instructed, you judges of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear,
And rejoice with trembling.
12 *Kiss the Son, lest *He be angry,
And you perish in the way,
When His wrath is kindled but a little.
Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.1) only, only one, solitary, one
a) only, unique, one
b) solitary
c) (TWOT) only begotten son
yachiydJdg 11:34 And Jephthah 03316 came 0935 to Mizpeh 04709 unto his house 01004, and, behold, his daughter 01323 came out 03318 to meet 07125 him with timbrels 08596 and with dances 04246: and she [was his] only child 03173; beside her he had neither son 01121 nor 0176 daughter 01323.
Psa 22:20 Deliver 05337 my soul 05315 from the sword 02719; my darling 03173 from the power 03027 of the dog 03611.Psa 35:17 Lord 0136, how long wilt thou look on 07200 ? rescue 07725 my soul 05315 from their destructions 07722, my darling 03173 from the lions 03715.
Pro 4:3 For I was my father's 01 son 01121, tender 07390 and only 03173 [beloved] in the sight 06440 of my mother 0517.
Psa 25:16 Turn 06437 thee unto me, and have mercy 02603 upon me; for I [am] desolate 03173 and afflicted 06041.
Psa 68:6 God 0430 setteth 03427 the solitary 03173 in families 01004: he bringeth out 03318 those
The Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon http://www.searchgodsword.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=03173&l=enOriginal Word dyxy
from (03161)
Transliterated WordYachiyd
Phonetic Spelling yaw-kheed'KJV (12) – darling, 2; desolate, 1; only, 6; only child, 1; only son, 1; solitary, 1;
NAS (12) – lonely, 2; one and child, 1; only, 5; only son, 4;Verse Count KJV NAS
Genesis3
Judges1
Psalms4
Proverbs1
Jeremiah1
Amos1
Zechariah1NAS
Genesis3
Judges1
Psalms4
Proverbs1
Jeremiah1
Amos1
Zechariah1Copyright Statement
The Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon is Brown, Driver, Briggs, Gesenius Lexicon; this is keyed to the “Theological Word Book of the Old Testament.” These files are considered public domain.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries. Copyright © 1981, 1998 by The Lockman Foundation. All rights reserved. http://www.lockman.org/.
Bibliography Information
Brown, Driver, Briggs and Gesenius. “Hebrew Lexicon entry for Yachiyd”. “The Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon”.
.which are bound 0615 with chains 03574: but the rebellious 05637 dwell 07931 in a dry 06707 [land].
Hi,
How can anyone prove something to you that you know does not exist? So you were not seeking any answers but only setting traps to set the stage to expound your own doctrines? No worries as someone else may be seeking and the use of the forum is for the benefit of all.Cherubs are not Cherubim it would seem.
Ez10.7
“Then the cherub stretched out his hand from beneath the cherubim to the fire which was between the cherubim”Hi G,
Consider these verses
Matt 21.37
” But afterward he sent his son to them, saying
'They will respect my son'”
Mark 12.6
” He had one more to send, a beloved son;he sent him last of all to them saying
'They will respect my son'”
Lk 20.13
” And the owner of the vineyard said
'What shall I do? I will send my beloved son;perhaps they will respect him'”I do not think anyone would deny that this parable speaks of The Father and The Son.
Jn 3.16f
” For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world ;but that world should be saved through him”So when was the Son sent? From his conception ?From his birth? There is no record of such sendings.
No he was an only begotten Son when he was sent, and he was sent from heaven.
Hi,
Adam was a direct son of God.
His sons, including us, are only indirectly sons of God.
God's court in Job 1-2 is in heaven.
Adam was never in heaven but only on earth.
Adam did not have a heavenly body.
Adam had a natural body designed to live on earth.
Adam was dead when the court of heaven, including the sons of God, presented themselves before the Lord in heaven in Jb 1-2.
He was dead, was not a heavenly resident, and as an inferior human being like us not invited by God to join the court.HiG,
Hebrews 1.6
“And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says
'Let all the angels of God worship him'”
Was God the midwife or the sender of His Son?Hi G,
If the Spirit of God is what distinguishes sons of God where is the scriptural evidence the sons shown in Gen 6, Jb 1,2,38 or Adam had the Spirit?
Satan had authority over the angels who were cast to earth with him in Rev 12 3-9.Quote (Guest @ July 28 2005,02:57) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2005,02:32) Quote (Guest @ July 28 2005,01:56) nick wrote:[quote=Guest,July 28 2005,00:14
sir,
Would Adam's seed be sons of God and sons of Adam, both, if Adam had not fallen? biblically speaking, that is?What is that separation?
Why must we receive Jesus christ for Him to give us the power to be the sons of God?
~
Hi,
The partaking of flesh body by Jesus Christ made him like to us in all ways except sin. So he was body, soul and spirit as we are-that is his own spirit and not the Holy Spirit. He was only filled with the Holy Spirit of God at his baptism by John. He was truly a man and had no advantages over us so we can follow him.God declares in the Word that Adam was his son. He does not say that, by the Spirit, about animals. God also declares who are the reborn sons and their names are written in the Book of Life. The power of rebirth is the life of the Spirit that never leaves us and will cause us to be raised up to eternity too.
Adam's offspring were never promised eternal life. God's plan all along was to create new sons in His Son so that He is in all and all reborn in Him.It would appear from Genesis that Adam did not eat of the tree of Life though he was allowed to.
Hebrews 4 pleads with us to take tha dvantage of the Sabbath rest-which is the 1000 yr-[7th day] reign.
My point to you, sir, is:
Adam was made a Son of God, created in the image and likeness of God, and given the tree of life to eat freely. He was never forbidden to eat the fruit of the tree of life until he was cast out of the garden after his sin.God said that Adam could live forever in that body, but God didn't want Adam to live forever in that fallen body.
Why?Why is man needing a new spirit for the Spirit of God to dwell in him, and why did the angel say that because the Holy Spirit came upon Mary and the power of the highest overshadowed her, therefore the holy thing born of her was the Son of God.
He was born the Son of God, from Mary, said the angel? Why?
What was it that made Him the human Son of God from her womb?Why could he be born the Son of God but we must receive Him to be given the power from Him to become the sons of God?
Why does He give us the Power that he was overshadowed with in the womb of the virgin that makes us the sons of God?
Why is it said that He gives the power to make us sons, if the Father is the Spiritf?
Hi,
Man is not needing a “new” spirit for the spirit to dwell in him. He needs a clean spirit, a washed body symbolising a cleansed forgiven, renewed conscience.[1Peter 3.21]Obedience to God's requirement of baptism by John enabled the cleansed hearts and minds to respond to the living Word of God.[Lk 7 29-30]
“You must be transformed by the renewing of your mind”
Rom 12.2
” and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind”
Eph 4.23
“by the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Hoy Spirit”Tit 3.5
” Let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water” Heb 10.22We are baptised into Christ, but then Christ is birthed into us, a longer and more difficult process..
Gal 3.27
” For all of you who were baptised into Christ have clothed yourself with Christ”
Gal 4.19
” My children, with whom I am again in labour until Christ is formed in you”God is spirit.
The Lord [Christ amongst us] is The Spirit.
God was dwelling in heaven but was in Christ by His Spirit.
The Father is not The Spirit but The Spirit is the Spirit of The Father poured out in Christ and now in his body, the church.
Christ now dwells in heaven but is among us as the Spirit too so “the Father and I will come to you”
The Spirit represents the Father as power and knowledge and authority.
To insult or grieve the Spirit is to insult or grieve the Father from whom the Spirit issues.
The Spirit, as never separate from God, or Christ ,and with us forever, enables our prayers to God and ministers God's grace to us.Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,00:58) Who is saying there are two God's? Not me, or epistemaniac, or Is1:18, or redeemed, or liljon, etc… YHWH is one – ECHAD
Oh, I know who does, Nick, T8, Cubes, etc.
All other gods are false gods and not really gods at all. Yet the Father calls Christ God and so does the rest of the Word. So it is impossible that the Father would have us follow a “false” god. To think otherwise is heresy.
Hi FYI:There is only One God above all, the Father, from whom all else proceed, upon whom all else depend. All are sustained by him.
If there were no other actual gods or lords, then it would be foolish and ridiculous to say God is the God of Gods and the Lord of Lords.
Oh, give thanks to the LORD, for He is good!
For His mercy endures forever.
2 Oh, give thanks to the God of gods!
For His mercy endures forever.
3 Oh, give thanks to the Lord of lords!
For His mercy endures forever:4 To Him who alone does great wonders,
For His mercy endures forever;
5 To Him who by wisdom made the heavens,
For His mercy endures forever;
6 To Him who laid out the earth above the waters,
For His mercy endures forever;
7 To Him who made great lights,
For His mercy endures forever…WHat about the godhead occurs three times in the scriptures (Acts 17: 29, Rom. 1: 20, Col. 2: 9, KJV).
Is he the father or the triune God?
Hi vicalcabasa,
Acts 17:29
“Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man's design and skill.The word in Acts 17: 29 is an adjective according to Strongs and it says that it is a general name of deities or divinities as used by the Greeks. The word is 'theios' which isn't 'theos', but derived from it.
The difference could be seen like the following:
'The Divine' (person) or
'divine' (nature).So there is one God, but many who share his nature.
E.g., God is a noun.
godly and sometimes god, is an adjective.But I think this verse is still ultimately talking about God because the adjective describes a noun, so that it is actually saying 'divine being'. But is Jesus not also a 'divine being'? Yes he is. But in addition to the words 'divine being' it also uses the article 'the' which defines a specific and exclusive person. 'The divine being' can only be God then.
When we say 'a divine being' it means one of many. But the term 'the divine being' is exclusively one being. If we say 'the divine being' is Jesus for example, then we exclude the Father from being 'the divine being'. Similarly we could say a president or 'the President'. Adding the article 'the' means we are talking exclusively about one person. So we could say George Bush II is 'the' president of the USA, and it would be incorrect to say that Bill Clinton is 'the' president, even though he is 'an' (a) ex-president.
So God is 'the divine being'. Christ is 'a divine being' and so we too can be 'divine beings'. We will be like Christ and he will call us brothers. But he is and always will be the firstborn son of many to come.
The word 'godhead used in Rom. 1:20 is slighty different, it uses the word 'theiotes' and Colossians 2:9 uses the word 'theotes'.
In the Latin versions, owing to the limitations of that language, both 'theotes' (deity) and 'theiotes' (divinity) are translated by the same term 'divinity'. But this was felt to be inadequate by some scholars, and the word 'deity' was coined at a later date to represent “theotes.” Scholars appear evenly divided over the differences in the words 'theotes' & theiotes.
It appears to mean divine nature although some might say 'essence'.
I think that some believe that 'theiotes' is a title used exclusively for God. I am not sure about this one. I think Adam Pastor mentioned that. Can someone verify this?
Thanks Adam.
Indeed, you said that 'Adonai' belongs to God alone.
What is your definition or understanding of 'theiotes'?
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 01 2005,09:06) Thanks Adam. Indeed, you said that 'Adonai' belongs to God alone.
What is your definition or understanding of 'theiotes'?
Yes. I said Adonai in all its 449 appearances, is a title that belongs to Almighty GOD alone.
It denotes Him as the Supreme Lord.Hence He is called Adonai YAHWEH in Scripture.
As for 'theiotes' … I go with whatever the lexicons say e.g. Thayer's
Quote (Adam Pastor @ Aug. 01 2005,09:27) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 01 2005,09:06) Thanks Adam. Indeed, you said that 'Adonai' belongs to God alone.
What is your definition or understanding of 'theiotes'?
Yes. I said Adonai in all its 449 appearances, is a title that belongs to Almighty GOD alone.
It denotes Him as the Supreme Lord.Hence He is called Adonai YAHWEH in Scripture.
As for 'theiotes' … I go with whatever the lexicons say e.g. Thayer's
Why isn't my post @ 09:27 showing on page 96?With very long discussions there seems to be a glitch, in that the first post of each page doesn't show up till the second post is made. The very same problem exists with the Trinity discussion and both that discussion and this one are the largest discussions and the only ones with the problem (not a coincedence I think). Until a fix is found, we will have to live with it. I haven't come across another Forum using the same software who has experienced this same problem, but most forums do not have lengthy discussions like this one.
Apologies and hopefully I will find a fix. The next version of the software might iron that bug out. Not sure when that will be though.
Peace greetings ALL!,
I myself do not believe that Yahshua (Jesus) pre-existed from the beginning was a co-creator with Father Yahweh and that he was eternal, but that he was begotten of Father Yahweh (born of a woman – Galatians 4:4; Revelation 12:4). I do not believe that Yahshua was Yahweh's spokesman from the very beginning as is made clear In Hebrews 1:1-2). I also do not believe in the trinity doctrine or the two Yahwehs doctrine.
Hi Frank,
I agree that Jesus did not preexist because the term is an oxymoron. If existance only relates to physical life in a body then God Himself, Who does not have such a body, thus does not apparently exist.It is a very limited view to think physical life is so important to make it the ultimate parameter for all life, since it is only the final and least glorious expression, in time, of God's creation.
But the Word was WITH God before time in the beginning.
The only begotten Son was SENT.Where from?
When is it recorded?
Did he agree to come to partake of flesh?
When could he have agreed?
After his arrival?
Who came in the flesh?
What does it mean to come in the flesh?
Did he know where he came from?
Had he seen God?
Yet no man has seen God so is he only man?Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Aug. 01 2005,18:55) Peace greetings ALL!, I myself do not believe that Yahshua (Jesus) pre-existed from the beginning was a co-creator with Father Yahweh and that he was eternal, but that he was begotten of Father Yahweh (born of a woman – Galatians 4:4; Revelation 12:4). I do not believe that Yahshua was Yahweh's spokesman from the very beginning as is made clear In Hebrews 1:1-2). I also do not believe in the trinity doctrine or the two Yahwehs doctrine.
what exactly do you believe, frank?Peace greetings ALL!
I still do not believe that Yahshua “pre-existed”, was a “co-creator” with Father Yahweh in the very beginning, was a third of a triad God (no “God the Son” and “God the Holy Spirit”), or that he is “Eternal Son” (In the sense that he always existed with Father Yahweh). I believe that he is the “begotten (not eternal) son” of Yahweh our Heavenly Father and Creator.
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