Who is this Jesus?

[Cubes]

Quote (Christofer @ July 20 2005,10:44)

You have said Yahweh is the Father – but ignore scripture that clearly shows Yahweh was seen by many people at different times. Whether a vision – or not – seeing Yahweh is seeing Yahweh… Jesus was pretty blunt about Father… but you first have to accept His words about the Father before you can see that the Father was NOT revealed to man at all until Jesus revealed Him to us. Matthew 11:27 “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. John 6:46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. If no one even knows the Father – or has even seen Him – yet the OT is full of Yahweh – how can you make Jesus a liar by insisting Yahweh MUST be the Father?

Below is a more complete verse of your quote Christofer. What I find interesting is Jesus thanking the Father who is Lord of Heaven and Earth, and consistent with YHWH who is the only known God of Israel, and the Lord God of Heaven and Earth.

Please note that Jesus did not preach a new or different GOD. He was preaching the same God as John the Baptist was preaching, as the apostles preached, whose word was founded on Christ and the prophets.

Matt 11:”25 At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. 26 Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. 27 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.

Matt 11:2 And when John had heard in prison about the works of Christ, he *sent two of his disciples 3 and said to Him, “Are You the COMING ONE, or do we look for another?”
4 Jesus answered and said to them, “Go and tell John the things which you hear and see: 5 The blind see and the lame walk; the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear; the dead are raised up and the poor have the GOSPEL PREACHED to them. 6 And blessed is he who is not offended because of Me.”

Taken with Matt 11:9-10, you can see that Jesus doesn't consider himself to be YHWH and John's question doesn't exactly convey that either.

[Anonymous]

Quote (Cubes @ July 20 2005,17:37)

A.  Jesus cannot be YHWH because when he quoted YHWH, he quoted YHWH as his God and/or Father, not as “self” quotes.   From Matt 4: Three times he was tempted by Satan in the wilderness, and he responded with scriptures that point to YHWH: Temptation 1)  If thou be the son of God change the stones into bread. JESUS:  MAN shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of YHWH. (Matt 4:3, 4; Deut 8:3) He considers himself man in relationship to YHWH. Temptation 2) And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. JESUS: you shall not tempt YHWH thy God. (Matt 4:6, 7; Deut 6:16) When Jesus says this, he is responding to the temptation that GOD/YHWH should be deliberately provoked and tested.  We all know that Jesus said if needed he could ask his Father to send legions of angels to his aid. Jesus could have said right there:  it is written, Do not tempt me, IF, as you propose, he was YHWH.  We don't see that here.  BTW, Satan knows who's who as does Jesus.  The Most High God and Almighty of Ps 91 is the the GOD in question to whom Jesus refers his answer…who is shown to be YHWH according to the OT references.     Temptation 3) Mat 4:9   And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. JESUS:  Mat 4:10; Exodus 34:14, Deut 6:13   Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the LORD thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. In this response, Jesus differentiates himself from YHWH.  He is not talking about worshipping himself.  Your unsubstantiated theories convolutes straightforward scriptures like that. But here is the thing: Do you really believe that Satan stood before GOD ALMIGHTY himself, The Living God who sits on his Throne and dared to speak to him let alone tempt him?  Three times?  When he showed up in Job, God himself initiated the conversation.  He showed up with the Sons of God if I recall correctly… and I wondered why fallen ones like that would even there approach God's presence and then I remembered that he creates even the evil and the wicked for the evil day.   So that's one profile.

Hello Cube,
Everything the YHWH of hosts from heaven did after He entered into the body prepared for Him in the womb of the virgin was done as a full human being.

Joseph in Egypt is a type of his authority as a human. Only in the throne is the Father greater than He, as Joseph was to Pharaoh. Paul told us that He was in the form of God, YHWH, and thought it not robbery or a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself and took upon Himself the form of a servant…everything done in His human flesh on earth was done as a human being, and His obedience to the father as a human gave Him the full legal right to be our perfect acceptable sacrifice -and the only one with the life in Himself to give for our redemption.

Isaiah 49 shows Him, as that human being, and His purpose.

He did not come in His own name, He said.
Do you know His own name?

He is coming in His 'New name', and will rule this earth that he purchased for the Father, which was the kingdom that Adam, the first human elohim of this earth, was given and lost.

The miracle of the incarnation of YHWH of hosts is that He not only made us in the beginning to be His 'godly seed' but made a plan for our redemption by coming in the New creation human flesh to give His blood -as a human-for our cleansing and redemption.

He was never the Father, but He was YHWH of hosts who said to us that He was sent by YHWH of hosts, in Zechariah chapter 2. -Have you not read that?

And He is the YHWH of hosts who was sent by YHWH and His Spirit, as I previously posted, from Isaiah.

As the last 'Adam', the second man, He is now the human being who is anointed above all human beings, his fellows, as Hebrews says, as the God of this earth -and sits upon His throne that He sat upon in Isaiah 6 and Ezekiel 1-11, as YHWH of hosts (John 12:37-41); and who rode the heavens by His name JAH! -pre-incarnation.

His goings forth have been of old, from eternity, as JAH! YHWH of hosts, and sometimes as the messenger from His created heaven, where He reigned in glory above, to this earth below, to man.

Never, ever, has it been said in the word of God that He is a created being, but He is the same, yesterday, today, and forever, the word says, and is the unchangeable God.
He did not change when He came to inhabit human flesh, but willingly 'made Himself of no reputation' and came in the form of a man, in the likeness of sinful flesh, but without sin, and was faithful to Him who sent Him, to death -and YHWH of hosts did this all as a human, for our redemption by His human blood, the acceptable purchase price for our redemption and the ransom of this kingdom that Adam, the son of elohim, had lost

Remember, the first man was of the earth, earthy, but the second man is the 'YHWH' from heaven.

His nature has not changed, rather, He put on human flesh, in the incarnation, and is in that human flesh forever, and is the only face of God, the YWHH of hosts, that any created being will ever see or ever has seen.

there was no God formed before Him, neither shall there be after Him, He says, no YHWH of hosts, and he, alone, is the most High God, the God of Israel that Moses and the elders dined with, on the mount, and saw, and He is YHWH of hosts who came incarnate in New Man flesh.

[Cubes]

So the major thing that doesn't add up is that:

We have “Thus saith YHWH/LORD of Hosts…” about his servant/son to come: eg. Is 9:6; 42; 53; Mal 3:1, Ps 22 and all those scriptures.

And you say this is the Son prophesying of himself with a different identity?

Then we have the fulfillment of the prophecies. Yeshua is born among men. (According to you YHWH is born among men). And to make his case he quotes YHWH/LORD of Hosts as his Father? But doesn't tell us that he was that YHWH all along and goes back to Heaven?

And then we have the quotations that show YHWH and Yeshua together, the Latter surbordinating to the former and relying on the other's testimony/prophecies to substantiate his identity that he isn't even admitting to being YHWH?

Come on, guys!

[Anonymous]

Quote (Cubes @ July 20 2005,19:10)

So the major thing that doesn't add up is that: We have “Thus saith YHWH/LORD of Hosts…”  about his servant/son to come: eg. Is 9:6; 42; 53; Mal 3:1, Ps 22 and all those scriptures. And you say this is the Son prophesying of himself with a different identity?   Then we have the fulfillment of the prophecies.  Yeshua is born among men.  (According to you YHWH is born among men).  And to make his case he quotes YHWH/LORD of Hosts as his Father?  But doesn't tell us that he was that YHWH all along and goes back to Heaven?   And then we have the quotations that show YHWH and Yeshua together, the Latter surbordinating to the former and relying on the other's testimony/prophecies to substantiate his identity that he isn't even admitting to being YHWH? Come on, guys!

Hello Cube,
If you will look at the word, YHWH of hosts most definitely is speaking and says that 'then you will know that YHWH of hosts sent Me to you.
He never lost His identity as YHWH of hosts, and never will, He is the same yesterday, today, and forever; He 'made Himself of no reputation' and humbled Himself and 'came in the form of a human being'.

Zec 2:8-11” For thus saith the LORD of hosts; [JESUS is speaking, PRE-INCARNATION]

“After the glory hath he sent 'me' [the incarnated YHWH of hosts] unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.

For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me.

And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee.”

The One speaking as YHWH of hosts is coming to dwell in the midst of 'you' and He is YHWH of hosts sent by YHWH of hosts.

Do you see that is the message of that passage? It is not the only passage where YHWH of hosts is two Persons, yet, He is One YHWH, just as Adam is One flesh, in the passage I posted in Malachi 2:15, male and female, Adam is our name as the race.

YHWH is His name as the Elohim.
I have a personnal name or three or five-come to think of it , and a few titles -at least five.

YHWH of hosts is three Persons, with many titles, and one YHWH of hosts was sent by another YHWH of hosts to inhabit human flesh of the New Man creation, and He was sent by His spirit, and He willingly came.
He has His own name, which no one knows.

He has a New name, which all must have to inherit the kingdom that He purchased back and will regenerate.

So, do you know His, YHWH of host's, 'New Name'?

Do you know how He got His new name?

Do you know no one is going to inherit eternal life and inherit the kingdom of God unless they have the New Name, by adoption, into the New family, written upon them? -and did you know that adoption is called the new birth, and is possible only because YHWH of hosts became a human like us and yet without sin, and paid for our 'redemption' -which is a return to the original plan of being the godly seed to inhabit this earth (when it is regenerated), by cleansing us from our soul from the defilement and regenerating our body and spirit?

He is not the Father. Never was the Father, and always was the 'fellow of YHWH' from everlasting.

Did you know that when YHWH called Him 'My fellow', that meant exactly, “His equal”? and there is no one equal to Him, nor are there any among the sons of God, the mighty ones, equal to Him, He says -do you know those scriptures?

Also, no one has seen the Father but the Son, and only the Son has come from eternity, the habitation of only the One YHWH?
No angel, no creature in heaven or earth, has come from eternity, but the One 'YHWH' who was sent -and came willingly.

If any other dwelt in eternity, or had come from eternity, they would be God, themselves, and would be self existant, as He is, for only the self existant One inhabits eternity, and the goings forth of the Son of God have been 'from eternity', as 'YHWH of hosts'.

All creation exists in the created heavens and earth; only YHWH of hosts exists in eternity, and has created His throne in the created heaven -if you'd do a Bible search on 'prepared thy throne', 'thy throne', etc, you'd see the throne of God is a created throne in the created heaven and speaks of the redemption of creation -from the beginning.

Only YHWH of hosts inhabits eternity as His dwelling place, and from there, He has gone forth, and His goings forth have been from everlasting, says the word.

In the regeneration, the new heavens and the new earth, which will be regenerated from this creation, there is no more temple, for God and the Lamb are the temple of the New City that will rule over heaven and earth.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ July 20 2005,19:06)

Quote (Cubes @ July 20 2005,17:37) A.  Jesus cannot be YHWH because when he quoted YHWH, he quoted YHWH as his God and/or Father, not as “self” quotes.   From Matt 4: Three times he was tempted by Satan in the wilderness, and he responded with scriptures that point to YHWH: Temptation 1)  If thou be the son of God change the stones into bread. JESUS:  MAN shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of YHWH. (Matt 4:3, 4; Deut 8:3) He considers himself man in relationship to YHWH. Temptation 2) And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. JESUS: you shall not tempt YHWH thy God. (Matt 4:6, 7; Deut 6:16) When Jesus says this, he is responding to the temptation that GOD/YHWH should be deliberately provoked and tested.  We all know that Jesus said if needed he could ask his Father to send legions of angels to his aid. Jesus could have said right there:  it is written, Do not tempt me, IF, as you propose, he was YHWH.  We don't see that here.  BTW, Satan knows who's who as does Jesus.  The Most High God and Almighty of Ps 91 is the the GOD in question to whom Jesus refers his answer…who is shown to be YHWH according to the OT references.     Temptation 3) Mat 4:9   And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. JESUS:  Mat 4:10; Exodus 34:14, Deut 6:13   Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the LORD thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. In this response, Jesus differentiates himself from YHWH.  He is not talking about worshipping himself.  Your unsubstantiated theories convolutes straightforward scriptures like that. But here is the thing: Do you really believe that Satan stood before GOD ALMIGHTY himself, The Living God who sits on his Throne and dared to speak to him let alone tempt him?  Three times?  When he showed up in Job, God himself initiated the conversation.  He showed up with the Sons of God if I recall correctly… and I wondered why fallen ones like that would even there approach God's presence and then I remembered that he creates even the evil and the wicked for the evil day.   So that's one profile. Hello Cube, Everything the YHWH of hosts from heaven did after He entered into the body prepared for Him in the womb of the virgin was done as a full human being. Joseph in Egypt is a type of his authority as a human. Only in the throne is the Father greater than He, as Joseph was to Pharaoh. Paul told us that He was in the form of God, YHWH, and thought it not robbery or a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself and took upon Himself the form of a servant…everything done in His human flesh on earth was done as a human being, and His obedience to the father as a human gave Him the full legal right to be our perfect acceptable sacrifice -and the only one with the life in Himself to give for our redemption. Isaiah 49 shows Him, as that human being, and His purpose. He did not come in His own name, He said. Do you know His own name? He is coming in His 'New name', and will rule this earth that he purchased for the Father, which was the kingdom that  Adam, the first human elohim of this earth, was given and lost. The miracle of the incarnation of YHWH of hosts is that He not only made us in the beginning to be His 'godly seed' but made a plan for our redemption by coming in the New creation human flesh to give His blood -as a human-for our cleansing and redemption. He was never the Father, but He was YHWH of hosts who said to us that He was sent by YHWH of hosts, in Zechariah chapter 2. -Have you not read that? And He is the YHWH of hosts who was sent by YHWH and His Spirit, as I previously posted, from Isaiah. As the last 'Adam', the second man, He is now the human being who is anointed above all human beings, his fellows, as Hebrews says, as the God of this earth -and sits upon His throne that He sat upon in Isaiah 6 and Ezekiel 1-11, as YHWH of hosts (John 12:37-41); and who rode the heavens by His name JAH! -pre-incarnation. His goings forth have been of old, from eternity, as JAH! YHWH of hosts, and sometimes as the messenger from His created heaven, where He reigned in glory above, to this earth below, to man. Never, ever, has it been said in the word of God that He is a created being, but He is the same, yesterday, today, and forever, the word says, and is the unchangeable God. He did not change when He came to inhabit human flesh, but willingly 'made Himself of no reputation' and came in the form of a man, in the likeness of sinful flesh, but without sin, and was faithful to Him who sent Him, to death -and YHWH of hosts did this all as a human, for our redemption by His human blood, the acceptable purchase price for our redemption and the ransom of this kingdom that Adam, the son of elohim,  had lost Remember, the first man was of the earth, earthy, but the second man is the 'YHWH' from heaven. His nature has not changed, rather, He put on human flesh, in the incarnation, and is in that human flesh forever, and is the only face of God, the YWHH of hosts, that any created being will ever see or ever has seen. there was no God formed before Him, neither shall there be after Him, He says, no YHWH of hosts, and he, alone, is the most High God, the God of Israel that Moses and the elders dined with, on the mount, and saw, and He is YHWH of hosts who came incarnate in New Man flesh.

Hi I,
1Jn 4.2
“By this you will know the Spirit of God;every spirit that confesses that JESUS CHRIST has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God;this is the spirit of the antichrist”

If your doctrine says YHWH has come in the flesh that doctine,by scriptures own definition, is antichrist and not of God.

Think again.

[Cubes]

Quote (Guest @ July 20 2005,19:06)

Hello Cube, Everything the YHWH of hosts from heaven did after He entered into the body prepared for Him in the womb of the virgin was done as a full human being. Joseph in Egypt is a type of his authority as a human. Only in the throne is the Father greater than He, as Joseph was to Pharaoh. Paul told us that He was in the form of God, YHWH, and thought it not robbery or a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself and took upon Himself the form of a servant…everything done in His human flesh on earth was done as a human being, and His obedience to the father as a human gave Him the full legal right to be our perfect acceptable sacrifice -and the only one with the life in Himself to give for our redemption. Isaiah 49 shows Him, as that human being, and His purpose. He did not come in His own name, He said. Do you know His own name? He is coming in His 'New name', and will rule this earth that he purchased for the Father, which was the kingdom that  Adam, the first human elohim of this earth, was given and lost. The miracle of the incarnation of YHWH of hosts is that He not only made us in the beginning to be His 'godly seed' but made a plan for our redemption by coming in the New creation human flesh to give His blood -as a human-for our cleansing and redemption. He was never the Father, but He was YHWH of hosts who said to us that He was sent by YHWH of hosts, in Zechariah chapter 2. -Have you not read that? And He is the YHWH of hosts who was sent by YHWH and His Spirit, as I previously posted, from Isaiah. As the last 'Adam', the second man, He is now the human being who is anointed above all human beings, his fellows, as Hebrews says, as the God of this earth -and sits upon His throne that He sat upon in Isaiah 6 and Ezekiel 1-11, as YHWH of hosts (John 12:37-41); and who rode the heavens by His name JAH! -pre-incarnation. His goings forth have been of old, from eternity, as JAH! YHWH of hosts, and sometimes as the messenger from His created heaven, where He reigned in glory above, to this earth below, to man. Never, ever, has it been said in the word of God that He is a created being, but He is the same, yesterday, today, and forever, the word says, and is the unchangeable God. He did not change when He came to inhabit human flesh, but willingly 'made Himself of no reputation' and came in the form of a man, in the likeness of sinful flesh, but without sin, and was faithful to Him who sent Him, to death -and YHWH of hosts did this all as a human, for our redemption by His human blood, the acceptable purchase price for our redemption and the ransom of this kingdom that Adam, the son of elohim,  had lost Remember, the first man was of the earth, earthy, but the second man is the 'YHWH' from heaven. His nature has not changed, rather, He put on human flesh, in the incarnation, and is in that human flesh forever, and is the only face of God, the YWHH of hosts, that any created being will ever see or ever has seen. there was no God formed before Him, neither shall there be after Him, He says, no YHWH of hosts, and he, alone, is the most High God, the God of Israel that Moses and the elders dined with, on the mount, and saw, and He is YHWH of hosts who came incarnate in New Man flesh.

Hi IAR:

Could you please reconcile some scriptures that show that Jesus and the LORD of Hosts are the same.  As posted earlier:

Is 40:3:  Prepare ye the way of YHWH.
Mal 3:1   Thus saith the LORD of Hosts… my messenger (JTB) shall prepare the way for the Lord/Messenger of the Covenant whom you delight in…behold he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
Jesus threw the money changers out of the temple, etc.  So yes, I agree he is the Lord/Messenger of the Covenant… but do not see that he is the LORD of Hosts, if anything, that is refuted here by his own statement in Matt 11:10.

I agree that Joseph of Egypt is a type and shadow of Christ but cannot say to what degree God is greater than he.  It is enough that you recognize that the two are not equal  to say that they are ?three in 1, if that is what you say, I cannot agree with scripturally.  Sorry I haven't read your previous posts.

I agree with the redemptive process that you speak of.

No, he did not come in his own name:  His name:  Emmanual, YESHUA, and the other one that I think FYI has been posting…?YHWH our righteousness.  Sorry can't recall.  But feel free to add.

Yes he has a new name yet to be revealed and yes, he has a kingdom.

YHWH made us through Jesus in much the same way as the redemptive process… we are saved through Jesus.  No proof that Jesus created us.  Jesus doesn't make that claim nor does anyone else.  

Also I thought the redeemed shall inherit and rule the earth.  Perhaps I am overlooking some scriptures.

Read Zech 2 a while ago.  will refresh.  And Yes Isaiah 49 does speak of Jesus in a way that is consistent with other scriptures but does not say he is LORD of Hosts.  YHWH and his spirit are not two persons.  YHWH does things by his spirit.  Jesus was anointed by the LORD God with his Spirit    It is the Father's anointing upon his son. (Ps 61).  Also the translation that I used for Is 48:16 KJV I believe, does not identify clearly the who's who in that segment.  YHWH is clearly sending, but you cannot determine who the “Me” is (though we know that Jesus was sent, and so was Cyrus but that doesn't show that the “Me” is YHWH of hosts.  Do you see what I mean?).

The human being who is anointed above all human beings?  He is Lord of Lords, surely but my understanding is that He has become more than he was as he has been HIGHLY exalted above all created things and beings and powers in the heavens or the earth.  Your argument suggests a demotion from YHWH (hood) to manhood, however exalted.  Even so I'll look up your other references.  Maybe they'll shed further light.

It makes no sense that he should be his own Messenger.  That deviates from the clear teachings of the word that says God sent his Son.  

The second man, “YHWH from Heaven.”  Could you share a scripture on the YHWH from Heaven part, please?  

Jesus considers the Most High God to be his God.  Ps 91:1  (Thou shalt not tempt the LORD thy God  Matt 4).

Sorry, I am not much better at keeping my posts shorter, but it'd be helpful if you could make shorter, multiple posts.

Thanks.

[Cubes]

IAR,

What you are sharing for the most part does not bear witness with what I have found so far in the word, so thanks but no thanks. Still look forward to your scriptures though.

[NickHassan]

Hi cubes,
If Jesus is part of the most high God then how can he have a God? Surely a God is at least greater than you and not part of you?
Jn 20.17
” ..I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God”

[Anonymous]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 20 2005,22:20)

Hi cubes, If Jesus is part of the most high God then how can he have a God? Surely a God is at least greater than you and not part of you? Jn 20.17 ” ..I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God”

That's funny Nick,

I call my wife 'momma' (mother) because that is what she is, the mother of my children. That doesn't make her my mother as though she bore me.

She calls me 'daddy' (father), that doesn't make me her biological father, it is who I am, the Father of her children.

So I can call christians my brothers and sisters, even though they didn't come from the same womb as I did.

God the Father calls Christ 'God' (Hebrews 1:8, Christ calls God the Father 'God' (John 20:17).

Mark 3:33 And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren? 34 And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

We are to do the will of Christ:

Luke 6:46 – And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? 47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: 48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. 49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

Acts 21:13 Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break mine heart? for I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus. 14 And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, The will of the Lord be done.

Colossians 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; 24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. 25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

That does not take away from the fact of Christs 'kenosis':

Philippians 2:8 – And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

However Christ 'explicitly' told us to call no man on earth 'father':

Matthew 23:9 – And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Yet the scripture calls Christ our 'Father':

Isaiah 9:6 – For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

[Anonymous]

*BUMP*

[Anonymous]

Quote (Cubes @ July 20 2005,21:03)

Quote (Guest @ July 20 2005,19:06) Hello Cube, Everything the YHWH of hosts from heaven did after He entered into the body prepared for Him in the womb of the virgin was done as a full human being. Joseph in Egypt is a type of his authority as a human. Only in the throne is the Father greater than He, as Joseph was to Pharaoh. Paul told us that He was in the form of God, YHWH, and thought it not robbery or a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself and took upon Himself the form of a servant…everything done in His human flesh on earth was done as a human being, and His obedience to the father as a human gave Him the full legal right to be our perfect acceptable sacrifice -and the only one with the life in Himself to give for our redemption. Isaiah 49 shows Him, as that human being, and His purpose. He did not come in His own name, He said. Do you know His own name? He is coming in His 'New name', and will rule this earth that he purchased for the Father, which was the kingdom that Adam, the first human elohim of this earth, was given and lost. The miracle of the incarnation of YHWH of hosts is that He not only made us in the beginning to be His 'godly seed' but made a plan for our redemption by coming in the New creation human flesh to give His blood -as a human-for our cleansing and redemption. He was never the Father, but He was YHWH of hosts who said to us that He was sent by YHWH of hosts, in Zechariah chapter 2. -Have you not read that? And He is the YHWH of hosts who was sent by YHWH and His Spirit, as I previously posted, from Isaiah. As the last 'Adam', the second man, He is now the human being who is anointed above all human beings, his fellows, as Hebrews says, as the God of this earth -and sits upon His throne that He sat upon in Isaiah 6 and Ezekiel 1-11, as YHWH of hosts (John 12:37-41); and who rode the heavens by His name JAH! -pre-incarnation. His goings forth have been of old, from eternity, as JAH! YHWH of hosts, and sometimes as the messenger from His created heaven, where He reigned in glory above, to this earth below, to man. Never, ever, has it been said in the word of God that He is a created being, but He is the same, yesterday, today, and forever, the word says, and is the unchangeable God. He did not change when He came to inhabit human flesh, but willingly 'made Himself of no reputation' and came in the form of a man, in the likeness of sinful flesh, but without sin, and was faithful to Him who sent Him, to death -and YHWH of hosts did this all as a human, for our redemption by His human blood, the acceptable purchase price for our redemption and the ransom of this kingdom that Adam, the son of elohim, had lost Remember, the first man was of the earth, earthy, but the second man is the 'YHWH' from heaven. His nature has not changed, rather, He put on human flesh, in the incarnation, and is in that human flesh forever, and is the only face of God, the YWHH of hosts, that any created being will ever see or ever has seen. there was no God formed before Him, neither shall there be after Him, He says, no YHWH of hosts, and he, alone, is the most High God, the God of Israel that Moses and the elders dined with, on the mount, and saw, and He is YHWH of hosts who came incarnate in New Man flesh. Hi IAR: Could you please reconcile some scriptures that show that Jesus and the LORD of Hosts are the same. As posted earlier: Is 40:3: Prepare ye the way of YHWH. Mal 3:1 Thus saith the LORD of Hosts… my messenger (JTB) shall prepare the way for the Lord/Messenger of the Covenant whom you delight in…behold he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. Jesus threw the money changers out of the temple, etc. So yes, I agree he is the Lord/Messenger of the Covenant… but do not see that he is the LORD of Hosts, if anything, that is refuted here by his own statement in Matt 11:10. I agree that Joseph of Egypt is a type and shadow of Christ but cannot say to what degree God is greater than he. It is enough that you recognize that the two are not equal to say that they are ?three in 1, if that is what you say, I cannot agree with scripturally. Sorry I haven't read your previous posts. I agree with the redemptive process that you speak of. No, he did not come in his own name: His name: Emmanual, YESHUA, and the other one that I think FYI has been posting…?YHWH our righteousness. Sorry can't recall. But feel free to add. Yes he has a new name yet to be revealed and yes, he has a kingdom. YHWH made us through Jesus in much the same way as the redemptive process… we are saved through Jesus. No proof that Jesus created us. Jesus doesn't make that claim nor does anyone else. Also I thought the redeemed shall inherit and rule the earth. Perhaps I am overlooking some scriptures. Read Zech 2 a while ago. will refresh. And Yes Isaiah 49 does speak of Jesus in a way that is consistent with other scriptures but does not say he is LORD of Hosts. YHWH and his spirit are not two persons. YHWH does things by his spirit. Jesus was anointed by the LORD God with his Spirit It is the Father's anointing upon his son. (Ps 61). Also the translation that I used for Is 48:16 KJV I believe, does not identify clearly the who's who in that segment. YHWH is clearly sending, but you cannot determine who the “Me” is (though we know that Jesus was sent, and so was Cyrus but that doesn't show that the “Me” is YHWH of hosts. Do you see what I mean?). The human being who is anointed above all human beings? He is Lord of Lords, surely but my understanding is that He has become more than he was as he has been HIGHLY exalted above all created things and beings and powers in the heavens or the earth. Your argument suggests a demotion from YHWH (hood) to manhood, however exalted. Even so I'll look up your other references. Maybe they'll shed further light. It makes no sense that he should be his own Messenger. That deviates from the clear teachings of the word that says God sent his Son. The second man, “YHWH from Heaven.” Could you share a scripture on the YHWH from Heaven part, please? Jesus considers the Most High God to be his God. Ps 91:1 (Thou shalt not tempt the LORD thy God Matt 4). Sorry, I am not much better at keeping my posts shorter, but it'd be helpful if you could make shorter, multiple posts. Thanks.

Hello Cube,
I have no time for more than a short bit, for an engagement is taking me away for a time; on the first post I made, I answered some of the things you just asked, I think;
But there is a lot to sort through and I'll return at a later date, if I may..

First, He is YHWH of hosts speaking in Zechariah 2, who is the One coming and who was sent by YHWH of hosts (coming to fulfill the promise of the Seed of the woman who would crush the head of the serpent, and who will restore all things; restoration and redemption was His reason for lowering Himself to the likeness of humanity, to be our Kinsman-fully human- Redeemer, and ransom the kingdom that Adam was given and lost).

There's just no way to say it is not YHWH of hosts speaking who says YHWH of hosts 'sent me', in that passage. look:

Zec 2:8For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations whic
h spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.

Zec 2:9For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me.

Zec 2:10Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.

Zec 2:11And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee.

So, formerly, YHWH of hosts dwelt among them in the Presence of His glory seen over the Mercy Seat, where he communed with them since Solomon's temple dedication, but He is coming, He says in that passage, and He will dwell among them and YHWH of hosts is sending Him; -and in Isaiah 48:16, YHWH 'and His Spirit' hath sent Me”.

And His spirit is the third Person, the same who moved (as hovering or brooding) over the waters in Genesis 1, and the Spirit came in the form of a dove at His anointing after His baptism of consecration as Firstborn (another excellent bible study) by the Levitical priest, John, His forerunner -to those 'who will' receive Him.
John was the forerunner of YHWH, Jesus said, who came in the spirit and power of elijah (but was not Elijah, as He said he was not).
Also; He, the burning lamp -or torch, and His Spirit, as the smoking oven, were the two parties who ratified the land covenant, for it is not legal unless two ratified it, in Genesis 15, while Abraham was in the same kind of trance that Adam was in when YHWH took a rib and formed Eve from his side.
Apparently Abraham was fully aware and reported the two parties, Who were 'YHWH of hosts' in two Persons, who passed between those cut pieces.

YHWH of hosts, pre-incarnation, went forth as JAH! when He rode the heavens, as the Pslamist said, and was seen as the burning torch, in genesis 15, and as YHWH of hosts upon His throne of glory in Ezekiel 1 through chapter 11, and is the One who is coming again, in His New Man body, still human, as the glory of the Presence of the Father in Person to dwell in the rebuilt Temple that Ezekiel describes in chapters 40 -, and in chapter 43: 1-7, He returns to plant His feet in the Holy of Holies of that millennial temple, and Ezekiel says He is the same One whom He saw, on His throne, in chapters 1-11, and He is the LORD Jesus Christ who is coming in Person, to rule this earth that He purchased back as the Son of Man.

He lowered Himself from His throne to take upon Himself tthe form of a human being, from the glory He had as seen in Ezekiel, 1-11, and Exodus 24:9-11, and Isaiah 6, when He was seen by the elders of Israel and Moses and Aaron and they ate with Him, as the God of Israel, and by Ezekiel, as the likeness of the glory of YHWH on His throne of glory (and Ezekiel saw Him as the returning glory of YHWH who comes in the Person of the human, risen glorified LORD Jesus Christ.

In Isaiah 48:16 “Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there [am] I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

In Isaiah 49, He is seen as the servant who lowered Himself to take on human flesh for the redemption of Israel and the light to the Gentiles. His New Man name is Israel, as a human being, and in that name, as Firstborn over all the earth, He will return and rule this creation that first belonged to Adam, the dead brother.

But that is His New Man creation human being name that He is the Firstborn of God in, and that name is the name of all the redeemed, that He will write upon them (when He gives the redeemed their resurrected bodies in which they shall be glorified, as He is -and all as human beings) Revelation 3:12.

He still has a name that no man knows, but He Himself. And that name is the name that He did not come in.

He is the second YHWH Person of the One YHWH, but YWWH is what God 'is', “I AM THAT I AM”; meaning the eternally self existent One.

I am 'Adam', in my being, until the adoption is complete and I rise in my resurrected body, for I have received the Spirit of adoption, the Spirit of the YHWH Jesus Christ when I received Him as my savior and was born again in spirit. He gave me His Spirit as the promise of the glory to come when I am resurrected or else changed at the great rapture of the Church.

The regeneration of the body of the redeemed of the LORD is coming all together at the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the rapture of the Church. When that happens, all the redeemed who are changed at that first harvest of earth's souls, will be glorified and be renamed.

The Creator named us Adam, as a kind, in Genesis 5:2, but the New Man who inherits the earth after the regeneration of it is named Israel, and there is only One 'Begotten' of that New Man race of humans, and all who are born again from the seed of Adam will be adopted into His new family and He will share the inheritance with we who are His by that adoption, which is called the regeneration.

YHWH lowered Himself to be our Kinsman Redeemer, and as the firstborn over all the earth, he has now been anointed, as a human being, precisely because He is YHWh of hosts in flesh, the living One, and is sitting upon the throne as a huma being, but still YHWh of hosts n flesh -fully human flesh, and He will rule over the whole earth forever (Adam was created to rule forever, as firstborn human being given this earth as his dominion) and He has been promised the throne of David, as human Firstborn, forever.

YHWH came to be a human being and take back the lost kingdom and remake it and redeem all who call upon His name (the name of YHWH that He came in, 'YESHUA') for salvation.

There's the little matter of the thousand year reign from Jerusalem, before He regenerates the heavens and the earth, but He is going to take possession of His kingdom and reign, and He is YHWH from heaven, who is in that human being body prepared for Him by His Holy Spirit overshadowing Mary when He prepared that body for Him to inhabit forever.

1Cr 15:47 “The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.”

If you were writing this in Hebrew, you would say the second man is the YHWH from heaven, for He is exactly revealed as that, in the many passages that deal with His coming and being sent.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ July 21 2005,00:40)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 20 2005,22:20) Hi cubes, If Jesus is part of the most high God then how can he have a God? Surely a God is at least greater than you and not part of you? Jn 20.17 ” ..I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God” That's funny Nick, I call my wife 'momma' (mother) because that is what she is, the mother of my children. That doesn't make her my mother as though she bore me. She calls me 'daddy' (father), that doesn't make me her biological father, it is who I am, the Father of her children. So I can call christians my brothers and sisters, even though they didn't come from the same womb as I did. God the Father calls Christ 'God' (Hebrews 1:8, Christ calls God the Father 'God' (John 20:17). Mark 3:33 And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren? 34 And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother. We are to do the will of Christ: Luke 6:46 – And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? 47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: 48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. 49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great. Acts 21:13 Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break mine heart? for I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus. 14 And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, The will of the Lord be done. Colossians 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; 24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. 25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons. That does not take away from the fact of Christs 'kenosis': Philippians 2:8 – And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. However Christ 'explicitly' told us to call no man on earth 'father': Matthew 23:9 – And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Yet the scripture calls Christ our 'Father': Isaiah 9:6 – For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Hi,
Eph 3.14
” For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives it's name.”

If the Father is not truly a Father but just has the name to distinguish His “person” from the other “persons” you claim are in God then there are no real families anywhere are there?

[NickHassan]

HiF,
We are children of Christ and brothers of Christ. Jesus called his disciples his children when they ate fish with him after his resurrection. Paul called his neophytes his children too.

No one called Jesus “Father” on earth.

But we are also brothers of Christ as Hebrews tell us.

That does not make Jesus the Father, whom he called Father and can too can call our Father.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ July 21 2005,01:30)

Quote (Cubes @ July 20 2005,21:03) Quote (Guest @ July 20 2005,19:06) Hello Cube, Everything the YHWH of hosts from heaven did after He entered into the body prepared for Him in the womb of the virgin was done as a full human being. Joseph in Egypt is a type of his authority as a human. Only in the throne is the Father greater than He, as Joseph was to Pharaoh. Paul told us that He was in the form of God, YHWH, and thought it not robbery or a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself and took upon Himself the form of a servant…everything done in His human flesh on earth was done as a human being, and His obedience to the father as a human gave Him the full legal right to be our perfect acceptable sacrifice -and the only one with the life in Himself to give for our redemption. Isaiah 49 shows Him, as that human being, and His purpose. He did not come in His own name, He said. Do you know His own name? He is coming in His 'New name', and will rule this earth that he purchased for the Father, which was the kingdom that  Adam, the first human elohim of this earth, was given and lost. The miracle of the incarnation of YHWH of hosts is that He not only made us in the beginning to be His 'godly seed' but made a plan for our redemption by coming in the New creation human flesh to give His blood -as a human-for our cleansing and redemption. He was never the Father, but He was YHWH of hosts who said to us that He was sent by YHWH of hosts, in Zechariah chapter 2. -Have you not read that? And He is the YHWH of hosts who was sent by YHWH and His Spirit, as I previously posted, from Isaiah. As the last 'Adam', the second man, He is now the human being who is anointed above all human beings, his fellows, as Hebrews says, as the God of this earth -and sits upon His throne that He sat upon in Isaiah 6 and Ezekiel 1-11, as YHWH of hosts (John 12:37-41); and who rode the heavens by His name JAH! -pre-incarnation. His goings forth have been of old, from eternity, as JAH! YHWH of hosts, and sometimes as the messenger from His created heaven, where He reigned in glory above, to this earth below, to man. Never, ever, has it been said in the word of God that He is a created being, but He is the same, yesterday, today, and forever, the word says, and is the unchangeable God. He did not change when He came to inhabit human flesh, but willingly 'made Himself of no reputation' and came in the form of a man, in the likeness of sinful flesh, but without sin, and was faithful to Him who sent Him, to death -and YHWH of hosts did this all as a human, for our redemption by His human blood, the acceptable purchase price for our redemption and the ransom of this kingdom that Adam, the son of elohim,  had lost Remember, the first man was of the earth, earthy, but the second man is the 'YHWH' from heaven. His nature has not changed, rather, He put on human flesh, in the incarnation, and is in that human flesh forever, and is the only face of God, the YWHH of hosts, that any created being will ever see or ever has seen. there was no God formed before Him, neither shall there be after Him, He says, no YHWH of hosts, and he, alone, is the most High God, the God of Israel that Moses and the elders dined with, on the mount, and saw, and He is YHWH of hosts who came incarnate in New Man flesh. Hi IAR: Could you please reconcile some scriptures that show that Jesus and the LORD of Hosts are the same.  As posted earlier: Is 40:3:  Prepare ye the way of YHWH. Mal 3:1   Thus saith the LORD of Hosts… my messenger (JTB) shall prepare the way for the Lord/Messenger of the Covenant whom you delight in…behold he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. Jesus threw the money changers out of the temple, etc.  So yes, I agree he is the Lord/Messenger of the Covenant… but do not see that he is the LORD of Hosts, if anything, that is refuted here by his own statement in Matt 11:10. I agree that Joseph of Egypt is a type and shadow of Christ but cannot say to what degree God is greater than he.  It is enough that you recognize that the two are not equal  to say that they are ?three in 1, if that is what you say, I cannot agree with scripturally.  Sorry I haven't read your previous posts. I agree with the redemptive process that you speak of.   No, he did not come in his own name:  His name:  Emmanual, YESHUA, and the other one that I think FYI has been posting…?YHWH our righteousness.  Sorry can't recall.  But feel free to add. Yes he has a new name yet to be revealed and yes, he has a kingdom. YHWH made us through Jesus in much the same way as the redemptive process… we are saved through Jesus.  No proof that Jesus created us.  Jesus doesn't make that claim nor does anyone else.   Also I thought the redeemed shall inherit and rule the earth.  Perhaps I am overlooking some scriptures. Read Zech 2 a while ago.  will refresh.  And Yes Isaiah 49 does speak of Jesus in a way that is consistent with other scriptures but does not say he is LORD of Hosts.  YHWH and his spirit are not two persons.  YHWH does things by his spirit.  Jesus was anointed by the LORD God with his Spirit    It is the Father's anointing upon his son. (Ps 61).  Also the translation that I used for Is 48:16 KJV I believe, does not identify clearly the who's who in that segment.  YHWH is clearly sending, but you cannot determine who the “Me” is (though we know that Jesus was sent, and so was Cyrus but that doesn't show that the “Me” is YHWH of hosts.  Do you see what I mean?).   The human being who is anointed above all human beings?  He is Lord of Lords, surely but my understanding is that He has become more than he was as he has been HIGHLY exalted above all created things and beings and powers in the heavens or the earth.  Your argument suggests a demotion from YHWH (hood) to manhood, however exalted.  Even so I'll look up your other references.  Maybe they'll shed further light. It makes no sense that he should be his own Messenger.  That deviates from the clear teachings of the word that says God sent his Son.   The second man, “YHWH from Heaven.”  Could you share a scripture on the YHWH from Heaven part, please?   Jesus considers the Most High God to be his God.  Ps 91:1  (Thou shalt not tempt the LORD thy God  Matt 4). Sorry, I am not much better at keeping my posts shorter, but it'd be helpful if you could make shorter, multiple posts. Thanks. Hello Cube, I have no time for more than a short bit, for an engagement is taking me away for a time; on the first post I made, I answered some of the things you just asked, I think; But there is a lot to sort through and I'll return at a later date, if I may.. First, He is YHWH of hosts speaking in Zechariah 2, who is the One coming and who was sent by YHWH of hosts (coming to fulfill the promise of the Seed of the woman who would crush the head of the serpent, and who will restore all things; restoration and redemption was His reason for lowering Himself to the likeness of humanity, to be our Kinsman-fully human- Redeemer, and ransom the kingdom that Adam was given and lost). There&#39 ;s just no way to say it is not YHWH of hosts speaking who says YHWH of hosts 'sent me',  in that passage. look: Zec 2:8For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye. Zec 2:9For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me. Zec 2:10Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD. Zec 2:11And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee. So, formerly, YHWH of hosts dwelt among them in the Presence of His glory seen over the Mercy Seat, where he communed with them since Solomon's temple dedication, but He is coming, He says in that passage, and He will dwell among them and YHWH of hosts is sending Him; -and in Isaiah 48:16, YHWH  'and His Spirit' hath sent Me”. And His spirit is the third Person, the same who moved (as hovering or brooding) over the waters in Genesis 1, and the Spirit came in the form of a dove at His anointing after His baptism of consecration as Firstborn (another excellent bible study) by the Levitical priest, John, His forerunner -to those 'who will' receive Him. John was the forerunner of YHWH, Jesus said, who came in the spirit and power of elijah (but was not Elijah, as He said he was not). Also; He, the burning lamp -or torch, and His Spirit, as the smoking oven, were the two parties who ratified the land covenant, for it is not legal unless two ratified it, in Genesis 15, while Abraham was in the same kind of trance that Adam was in when YHWH took a rib and formed Eve from his side. Apparently Abraham was fully aware and reported the two parties, Who were 'YHWH of hosts' in two Persons, who passed between those cut pieces. YHWH of hosts, pre-incarnation, went forth as JAH! when He rode the heavens, as the Pslamist said, and was seen as the burning torch, in genesis 15, and as YHWH of hosts upon His throne of glory in Ezekiel 1 through chapter 11, and is the One who is coming again, in His New Man body, still human, as the glory of the Presence of the Father in Person to dwell in the rebuilt Temple that Ezekiel describes in chapters 40 -, and in chapter 43: 1-7, He returns to plant His feet in the Holy of Holies of that millennial temple, and Ezekiel says He is the same One whom He saw, on His throne, in chapters 1-11, and He is the LORD Jesus Christ who is coming in Person, to rule this earth that He purchased back as the Son of Man. He lowered Himself from His throne to take upon Himself tthe form of a human being, from the glory He had as seen in Ezekiel, 1-11, and Exodus 24:9-11, and Isaiah 6, when He was seen by the elders of Israel and Moses and Aaron and they ate with Him, as the God of Israel, and by Ezekiel, as the likeness of the glory of YHWH on His throne of glory (and Ezekiel saw Him as the returning glory of YHWH who comes in the Person of the human, risen glorified LORD Jesus Christ. In Isaiah  48:16 “Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there [am] I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. In Isaiah 49, He is seen as the servant who lowered Himself to take on human flesh for the redemption of Israel and the light to the Gentiles. His New Man name is Israel, as a human being, and in that name, as Firstborn over all the earth, He will return and rule this creation that first belonged to Adam, the dead brother. But that is His New Man creation human being name that He is the Firstborn of God in, and that name is the name of all the redeemed, that He will write upon them (when He gives the redeemed their resurrected bodies in which they shall be glorified, as He is -and all as human beings) Revelation 3:12. He still has a name that no man knows, but He Himself. And that name is the name that He did not come in. He is the second YHWH Person of the One YHWH,  but YWWH is what God 'is', “I AM THAT I AM”; meaning the eternally self existent One. I am 'Adam', in my being, until the adoption is complete and I rise in my resurrected body, for I have received the Spirit of adoption, the Spirit of the YHWH Jesus Christ when I received Him as my savior and was born again in spirit. He gave me His Spirit as the promise of the glory to come when I am resurrected or else changed at the great rapture of the Church. The regeneration of the body of the redeemed of the LORD is coming all together at the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the rapture of the Church. When that happens, all the redeemed who are changed at that first harvest of earth's souls, will be glorified and be renamed. The Creator named us Adam, as a kind, in Genesis 5:2, but the New Man who inherits the earth after the regeneration of it is named Israel, and there is only One 'Begotten' of that New Man race of humans, and all who are born again from the seed of Adam will be adopted into His new family and He will share the inheritance with we who are His by that adoption, which is called the regeneration. YHWH lowered Himself to be our Kinsman Redeemer, and as the firstborn over all the earth, he has now been anointed, as a human being, precisely because He is YHWh of hosts in flesh, the living One, and is sitting upon the throne as a huma being, but still YHWh of hosts n flesh -fully human flesh, and He will rule over the whole earth forever (Adam was created to rule forever, as firstborn human being given this earth as his dominion) and He has been promised the throne of David, as human Firstborn, forever. YHWH came to be a human being and take back the lost kingdom and remake it and redeem all who call upon His name (the name of YHWH that He came in, 'YESHUA') for salvation. There's the little matter of the thousand year reign from Jerusalem, before He regenerates the heavens and the earth, but He is going to take possession of His kingdom and reign, and He is YHWH from heaven, who is in that human being body prepared for Him by His Holy Spirit overshadowing Mary when He prepared that body for Him to inhabit forever. 1Cr 15:47 “The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.” If you were writing this in Hebrew, you would say the second man is the YHWH from heaven, for He is exactly revealed as that, in the many passages that deal with His coming and being sent.

Hi I,
You have a fine inventive imagination. Your mystical and apparently spiritual derivations are, in my opinion, not of God's Spirit but of man's construction.

The Father is the God of Jesus Christ and Jesus is not part of his God but God dwelled in him. God sent him and raised him from the dead that we might live in Christ in Him.

You agree that as The Pharaoh was greater than Joseph to whom he gave all authority, the Father is greater than the Son to who he gave all authority. So there is no inherent equality, and there are two beings, and one gave to the other what the other did not originally have or even share? That is progress.

Eph 1.17
“that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of Glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him. I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of the inheritance in the saints, and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of His strength of His might which He brought about in Christ, when He raised him from the dead and seated him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
far above every rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the age to come. And He put all things in subjection under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all””

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ July 21 2005,00:40)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 20 2005,22:20) Hi cubes, If Jesus is part of the most high God then how can he have a God? Surely a God is at least greater than you and not part of you? Jn 20.17 ” ..I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God” That's funny Nick, I call my wife 'momma' (mother) because that is what she is, the mother of my children. That doesn't make her my mother as though she bore me. She calls me 'daddy' (father), that doesn't make me her biological father, it is who I am, the Father of her children. So I can call christians my brothers and sisters, even though they didn't come from the same womb as I did. God the Father calls Christ 'God' (Hebrews 1:8, Christ calls God the Father 'God' (John 20:17). Mark 3:33 And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren? 34 And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother. We are to do the will of Christ: Luke 6:46 – And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? 47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: 48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. 49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great. Acts 21:13 Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break mine heart? for I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus. 14 And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, The will of the Lord be done. Colossians 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; 24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. 25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons. That does not take away from the fact of Christs 'kenosis': Philippians 2:8 – And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. However Christ 'explicitly' told us to call no man on earth 'father': Matthew 23:9 – And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Yet the scripture calls Christ our 'Father': Isaiah 9:6 – For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Hi ,
If Christ calls the Father his God and Jesus is called God too by God's Spirit in the Word then that in itself is evidence that they are not the same being. Surely you are not suggesting the Son was the God of the Father?

It is not surprising to find two beings as the Word was WITH God in the beginning. Can one being be WITH another and still they are the same being?

Commonsense would suggest that was very unlikely but trinity theorists abandoned commonsense for seductive and shadowy mysticism a long time ago.

[vicalcabasa]

Hi YHWH is Jesus advocates

After reading your lengthy posts, let me enumerate several points that occur again and again in your posts that were used to support your beliefs that YHWH of Host is the incarnate Jesus. To wit;

1.Your interpretation of the word. ECHAD.
2.Your interpretation of word ELOHIM
3.The scripture that said that Jesus is the second man , Lord from Heaven.
4.The VISIBLE YHWH that Moses and the Israelites saw in the dessert.

I will not discuss this altogether in one post so everybody can take a good look.

POINT NO. 1

1.the word ECHAD

Hebrew definition.OT:259

'echad – one (number)

a) one (number)
b) each, every
c) a certain
d) an (indefinite article)
e) only, once, once for all
f) one…another, the one…the other, one after another, one by one
g) first
h) eleven (in combination), eleventh (or dinal)
(from The Online Bible Thayer's Greek Lexicon and Brown Driver & Briggs Hebrew

1.So here you used the 6th (f) definition to support your idea that echad (echo) YWHW is plurality of 3 divine beings.
2.you further illustrate the your point by comparing the echad Adam which means One human race but consisting of many persons.

I want to use the first (a) definition  which plainly says ONE and compare it with the new testament description of ONE GOD. I list several verses here that describe the oneness of God.

Rom 3:30
Since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith

1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Eph 4:6
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

1 Tim 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

The Greek word for ONE used here is HEIS which plainly means ONE.

Greek Definition NT:1520
heis (hice); (including the neuter [etc.] hen); a primary numeral; one:

The first definition of the word ONE (echad) in Hebrew that I used is consistent with the word ONE in GREEK in meaning and intention.

Therefore One YHWH means ONE GOD.

Next,
Your illustration of echad Adam as one human race consists of many people.

If we follow this logic it will also means that..

Echad YHWH is one divine race with three beings. So now YHWH is a race of divine beings. This interpretation is dangerous because it open up a lot of ideas not consistent with the general theme of the bible, what’s next? That these divine beings came from outer space and spawn men. Some people already believed this and mind you, with better scriptural support.

[vicalcabasa]

POINT NO. 2

1.The word ELOHIM.  

I have already posted its definition by the International Standard Bible Ency .  to be brief here is the conclusion of that….

It is the reasonable conclusion that the meaning is “might” or “power”; that it is common to Semitic language; that the form is plural to express majesty or “all-mightiness,” and that it is a generic, rather than a specific personal, name for Deity, as is indicated by its application to those who represent the Deity (Judg 5:8; Ps 82:1) or who are in His presence (1 Sam 28:13).
(from International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Electronic Database Copyright Â1996 by Biblesoft)

ELOHIM is plurality of majesty.

So when you read the verse: HEAR O ISRAEL, THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD.

The only meaning the verse wanted to convey to Israel is that GOD is ONE. That’s all nothing more, nothing less.

[vicalcabasa]

POINT NO. 3

You believe that the YHWH Moses and the Israelites saw in the dessert is the incarnate Jesus. You arrive at this conclusion because YHWH is invisible, therefore there must be a second YHWH, for how could you explain the visible YHWH Moses saw? You explain.

Why don’t we use scriptures to explain this seemingly contradicting passages. Where in one verse said Moses saw God and in another verse say that no man can see God and live.

In Acts 7:37 We read…

37 “This is that Moses who told the Israelites, `God will send you a prophet like me from your own people.'  38 He was in the assembly in the desert, with the ANGEL WHO SPOKE TO HIM ON MOUNT SINAI, and with our fathers; and he received living words to pass on to us. NIV

So in this passages Stephen talking before the Sanhedrin explained that it was an ANGEL that Moses and the Israelites saw and talk with YHWH. MOSES never talk to JESUS as the visible YWHW, it was an angel. THat will explain the seemingly contradicting passages!

SEE how simple if you let scriptures explain scriptures?

There is no visible YHWH.

[vicalcabasa]

POINT NO. 4

In this verse you prove that Jesus the Second man whom is Lord (YHWH) from heaven.

he first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven
(King James Version)

I look on other versions here they are…

1 Cor 15:47-48
The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven.
NIV

1 Cor 15:47
The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven.
NASU

1 Cor 15:47
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is of heaven.
ASV
GUESS WHAT, no mention of the word Lord. Why? Lets see the Greek text.

3588The
4413first
444man
9999is
1537of
9999the
1093earth,
5517earthy:
3588the
1208second
444man
9999is
the
Lord
1537from
3772heaven.
(Interlinear Transliterated Bible. Copyright  1994 by Biblesoft)

Please notice that the word Lord is designated by 9999 which means …
NT:9999
inserted word {x}

This word was added by the translators for better readability in the English. There is no actual word in the Greek text. The word may be displayed in italics, or in parentheses or other brackets, to indicate that it is not in the original text.
(from The Online Bible Thayer's Greek Lexicon and Brown Driver & Briggs Hebrew Lexicon, Copyright Â1993, Woodside Bible Fellowship, Ontario, Canada. Licensed from the Institute for Creation Research.)

I am sorry to say that your scriptural supports  were shaky and a result of forced interpretation.

[Proclaimer]

Thanks for your hard work here vicalcabasa and thanks for clearing out all the smoke that some people here create. It seems that some are hard of hearing, they have ears but do not hear and eyes but do not see.

But I guess that only those who belong to Christ will hold steadfast to the truth. There are those who have a form of godliness but they deny the power. The power is in the truth. No power from God is found in a lie.

Once again thanks for your posts.

[Author]

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