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Logos can mean word, utterence, thought, reason, expression etc.
The point is that this Logos was WITH GOD in the beginning.
Not in God, or not even God himself. But with God.John 1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was god.Do not be surprised that we are all the thoughts of God. We were not created without thought. He has expressed us so that we become living souls, each with a will to choose. He is the Father of our spirit, we came from him who is Spirit.
Hebrews 12:9
Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live!1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.Do not all (good) things come from God?
Are we not the offsping of God.
Were we not a thought of God before he brought us forth?
God thinks and God acts.We are born through the Word and scripture also says that God created all things through Christ. It says that Christ is the Word who became a flesh/man and that the Word was WITH God. It also says that Christ humbled himself when he became a man.
Tatian wrote the following in the second century:
“For just as from one torch many fires are lighted, but the light of the first torch is not lessened by the kindling of many torches, so the Word, coming forth from the Word-Power of the Father, has not divested of the Word-Power Him who begat Him”.Philippians 2:5-11 spells it out.
5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.JESUS IS GOD AND THE SON OF GOD AND WE ARE GODS
1 Co 11:3 “But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.”
——
FOR THE TRINITY BELIEVERS:
THE WORD TRINITY IS NOT IN THE BIBLE.
THE WORD TRINITY MEAN EQUAL
Mark 10:18 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me
good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
—
This Scripture is saying that they are not all equal.
Therefore trinity as a joint affair is not correct.
—
Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary
the (Holy) Trinity nounLITERARY
in Christianity, the existence of one God in three forms, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit
—-
FOR THE ONE GOD BELIEVERS:
JESUS IS GOD.
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and
my God!”
29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas,[1] because you have
seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have
not seen and yet have believed.”=============
Other people believe that God is One but they believe in the Godhead.The word “Godhead” does NOT exist in either the Hebrew, or Greek Scripture.
GODHEAD CORRECTION: (Divine Nature).
New King James Version
Acts 17: 29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising.============================================
JESUS SAID YE ARE GODS
John 10:35 If he called them “gods” unto whom the word
of God came and the scripture cannot be broken;
John 10:
Renewed Efforts to Stone Jesus
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”
33The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”
34Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, “I said, “You are gods”'?[3] 35If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, “You are blaspheming,' because I said, “I am the Son of God'?==============
TRINITY BELIEVERS:
Matthew 28:19
Go therefore[28:19 M-Text omits [therefore.] ] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,FATHER: God the creator that created all things.
JESUS: The Son of God. God created the world through Jesus.
GOD IS SPIRIT: THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD
God’s Spirit appeared as a dove when Jesus was baptized.HOLY SPIRIT OF JESUS
John 7:39
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)A MEDIATOR IS NOT A MEDIATOR OF ONE, BUT GOD IS ONE
Galatians 3: 19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.DO BELIEVERS OF THE TRINITY WORSHIP ALL THE MEDIATORS?
———————-
John 1
The Eternal Word
Testimony of John the Baptist
(1) 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.This is saying that the Word was God. Not that Jesus is God.
WE ARE TO BECOME SONS OF GOD
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:Karyl
====To K2marsh,
1 Corinthians 8:5-6 (English-NIV)
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.Yes there are many gods that is true. But for us believers there is one true God, the Father whom all gods (except false gods) came from.
John 17:3 (English-NIV)
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.Ephesians 4:4-6 (English-NIV)
4 there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.Thx for your thoughts K2marsh.
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 18 2005,07:03) . The point is that this Logos was WITH GOD in the beginning.
Not in God, or not even God himself. But with God.
Isaiah 44:24 24 Thus says the Lord that redeems you, and who formed you from the womb: I am the Lord that performs all things; I stretched out the heaven alone, and established the earth.Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; the scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness beyond Your companions.”
10 And: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.
The Logos was God because only God created the heavens and the earth
Hi liljon,
Let us reason together.
Isaiah 44:24 24
Thus says the Lord that redeems you, and who formed you from the womb: I am the Lord that performs all things; I stretched out the heaven alone, and established the earth.Yes God alone created the heavens.
But he created it through his son.Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.So God made the universe through his son. Does that make Jesus, God?
If God saves a soul through my effort of preaching the gospel, does that make me God. Of course not. God worked through me. I am not God because God worked through me. It just means that I am one with God. That I have become his arms, legs or hand.
Hebrews 1:8-9
8 But of the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; the scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness beyond Your companionsOf course, this is saying that Jesus has a God as other scriptures do.
Revelation 1:1
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.
He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,Revelation 1:6
and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.John 20:17
Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’ ”You see, Jesus has a God, but the Father does not have a God.
We must believe that Jesus came from God the Father, and it makes complete sense when we understand that God has a son. God became a Father when he begat a son. Father -> Son. That is what a son is. A son comes from the Father.
John 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.Hi TS and List,
You need to reread my post.
THERE IS ONE GOD OVER ALL, (AND IN YOU)
Ephesians 4:6
one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you
==================
YOU ARE GODS, this is what Jesus said.
Not Jesus only, but YOU are Gods.
John 10:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, “I said, “You are gods”'?[2] 35If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
==================
JESUS IS GOD
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and
my God!”
29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas,[1] because you have
seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have
not seen and yet have believed.”Take note this was after the death of Jesus. Jesus was in Spirit.
Jesus did not tell Thomas that he was not God. God made man in his image. God is Spirit and when we return to God we will be in Spirit and become a part of God. The Scriptures say that ye are Gods.
==================
Jesus said I and the Father are one.
—
WE ARE MADE IN GODS IMAGE, GOD IS SPIRIT
GOD SAID “LET US”.
Genesis 1:26
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all[1:26 Syriac reads [all the wild animals of.] ] the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
——–
God is over all, but we are Gods made in God's Spiritual image. We are to become sons of God in Spirit.
==================
MAN HAS BECOME AS ONE OF US
Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:==================
LED BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD THESE ARE SONS OF GOD
Romans 8:
13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”
=================Karyl
====To K2marsh,
To sum up your post K2marsh, are you saying that there is one God and that we, Jesus and the Father are that one God.
Or are you saying that there are many gods, but for us there is one God the Father?
Hi IB and All,
THERE IS ONE GOD OVER ALL, (AND IN YOU)
Ephesians 4:6
one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in youLike I said there is ONE God over all. For us there is one God the Father who created all things through Jesus the Christ.
=========
No we are not Idles made with hands and Jesus is not an Idle either. We are Gods made in Gods Image. God is Spirit.====
We are made in God’s Image.
====
You Must Be Born AgainExcept a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into
The KINGDOM of God.
—-
Baptized in living water that comes down form above.
—-
John 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this
water shall thirst again:
14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never
thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.Washing of regeneration
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but
according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and
renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our
Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs
according to the hope of eternal life.NICODEMUS SAID
John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is
old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be
Born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the
Spirit is spirit.Jesus said: That which is born of the Spirit is spirit. What was
born????
SPIRIT.
========Karyl
====Yes it does make him God because God created the world by himself
and jesus is called
YHVH in Hebrews 1:10
Jesus has a God because he was made lower than the angels through the incarnationHi iB and all,
I'm glad to see that you agree with the Scriptures. If you agree that we are Gods then you must be ready to go on from there. The following is a little long, but necessary.
ENTERING THE KINGDOM OF GOD (WHILE LIVING)
YOU DON'T HAVE TO DIE TO ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD
EVERYONE has been taught the precepts of man, and that you must die to enter the kingdom of God. That is not what Jesus taught.
Jesus preached the kingdom of God.
Why would Jesus say to seek the kingdom of God if you can’t enter the kingdom while you are alive?
People are taught that you either go to heaven or hell when you die. You don’t have to die to go to heaven or hell. The kingdom of God is within yourself.Matthew 6:33
But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.JESUS SAID THE PHARISEES DO NOT ENTER IN TO THE KINGODM OF GOD
Matthew 23:13
But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, pretenders (hypocrites)! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces; for you neither enter yourselves, nor do you allow those who are about to go in to do so.Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap
corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap
Life everlasting.This is the reborn Spirit.
WHEN BEING BORN AGAIN CHRIST IS FORMED IN YOU
Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again
Until Christ be formed in you,WHY WOULD JESUS TELL YOU THIS IF YOU COULD NOT ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD WHILE ALIVE? WE ARE TO SEEK THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
Matthew 13
The Parable of the Hidden Treasure
44 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field, which a man found and hid; and for joy over it he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.The Parable of the Pearl of Great Price
45 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking beautiful pearls, 46who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had and bought it.THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS WITHIN YOU. THAT IS WHERE YOU ARE TO SEEK TO FIND THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
Luke 17
21 nor will they say, “See here!' or “See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN IN SPIRIT
John 3
2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”
3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he
cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, “You must be born again.'WHAT WAS BORN??? YOUR SPIRIT….
THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS IN YOUR DREAM WORLD WHILE YOU ARE IN SPIRIT.
==============================THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN WORSHIP GOD…..
IS IN SPIRIT AND TRUTH FOR GOD IS SPIRITPeople go to church and come home having never worshiped God. In fact they could not even get a prayer in edgewise, let alone worship God in Spirit.
YOU MUST BE BORN AGAINMatthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye; if, therefore, thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
The third eye is the single eye that Jesus referred to. Seeing with a Spiritual eye.
Luke17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Luke 13:20 And again he said, Whereunto shall I liken the kingdom of God? 21 It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.As you meditate in Spirit and in truth , and as you worship God in the place he selects a door opens from place to place until the whole body is filled with the light of the eye.
(The whole was leavened).
The apple that was divided will eventually be joined together again and you will be of one mind.POSITIVE SPIRIT
Positive spirit is visible to other people, and can speak to them.
Positive spirit can pick up things, and has a body like the person that is doing the mediation. Positive spirit has eternal life and is beyond birth and death.NEGATIVE SPIRIT
Negative spirit visible to the person in meditation when he closes his eyes. Negative spirit can see others, but is invisible to them, and cannot speak to them or pick up objects. Negative spirit is mortal.You may have entered into negative spirit in your dreams at times. Perhaps you could see people but they could not see you. Negative spirit is mortal.
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.THE KINGODM OF GOD IS HERE NOW… BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD…WE JUST HAVE TO ENTER INTO THE KINGODM
Matthew 12:28
But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out the demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you [[Marvin Vincent, Word Studies.] before you expected it].THIS IS WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THE UNDERSTANDING OF THE KINGDOM
THE EVIL ONE SNATCHES IT AWAY.
Matthew 13:19
[Marvin Vincent, Word Studies.] While anyone is hearing the Word of the kingdom and does not grasp and comprehend it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the roadside.THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN WITHIN YOURSELF GROWS
Matthew 13
31Another story by way of comparison He set forth before them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field.
32Of all the seeds it is the smallest, but when it has grown it is the largest of the garden herbs and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and find shelter in its branches.LITTLE CHILDREN ARE IN THE DREAM WORLD, AND ARE WITH OUT LUST.
Mark 10:14
But when Jesus saw [it], He was indignant and [A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures.] pained and said to them, Allow the children to come to Me–do not forbid or prevent or hinder them–for to such belongs the kingdom of God.WE ARE TO ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM AS LITTLE CHILDREN DO
Mark 10:15
Truly I tell you, whoever does not receive and accept and welcome the kingdom of God like a little child [does] positively shall not enter it at all.YOU ARE NOT FAR FROM THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
THIS IS NOT SAYING HE IS GOING TO DIE.
Mark 12:34
And when Jesus saw that he answered intelligently (discreetly and [Marvin Vincent, Word Studies.] having his wits about him), He said to him, You are not far from the kingdom of God. And after that no one ventured or dared to ask Him any further question.JESUS WAS SENT TO PREACH THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
PEOPLE ARE MORE INTERESTED IN THE EARTHLY CHURCH AND BEING IN CONTROL OF OTHER PEOPLE THAN IN THE SPIRITUAL KINGDOM OF GOD.
Luke 4:43
But He said to them, I must preach the good news (the Gospel) of the kingdom of God to the other cities [and towns] also, for I was sent for this [purpose].THEY DIDN’T DIE BUT THEY HAVE COME CLOSE TO THE KINGDOM
Luke 10
8Whenever you go into a town and they receive and accept and welcome you, eat what is set before you;
9And heal the sick in it and say to them, The kingdom of God has come close to you.YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN IN SPIRIT OR YOU CAN NOT ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD. THE SPIRIT WORLD
John 3:3
Jesus answered him, I assure you, most so
lemnly I tell you, that unless a person is born again (anew, from above), he cannot ever see (know, be acquainted with, and experience) the kingdom of God.John 3:5
Jesus answered, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, unless a man is born of water and [[The Greek “kai” (“and”) may be rendered “even.”] even] the Spirit, he cannot [ever] enter the kingdom of God.[JESUS’ KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD… IT’S A SPIRITUAL KINGDOM
John 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom (kingship, royal power) belongs not to this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My followers would have been fighting to keep Me from being handed over to the Jews. But as it is, My kingdom is not from here (this world); [it has no such origin or source].
1 Corinthians 4:20
For the kingdom of God consists of and is based on not talk but power ([Joseph Thayer, A Greek-English Lexicon.] moral power and excellence of soul).THE OLD MAN MUST DIE AND YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN IN SPIRIT
1 Corinthians 15:50
But I tell you this, brethren, flesh and blood cannot [become partakers of eternal salvation and] inherit or share in the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable (that which is decaying) inherit or share in the imperishable (the immortal).Karyl
====Quote (liljon @ Jan. 25 2005,10:26) Yes it does make him God because God created the world by himself
and jesus is called
YHVH in Hebrews 1:10
Jesus has a God because he was made lower than the angels through the incarnation
To liljon,Jesus has a God even after the incarnation.
The idea that God took on a body and then returned as God is easily seen as lies in the following verses:
Revelation 1:1
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.
He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,Revelation 1:6
and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.Revelation 3:12
Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God.
Never again will he leave it.
I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.These verses are describing a period when Christ is in Heaven. After being raised from the dead.
Also God created the world and no other, but he created all things THROUGH Christ.
This is what scripture says. Who can argue with that?
There's no such thing as “after the incarnation”
Col 2:9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodilyIsaiah 45: 18 Thus says the Lord that made the heaven, this God that created the earth, and made it; He marked it out, He made it not in vain, but formed it to be inhabited; I am the Lord, and there is no other.
Isaiah44:24 Thus says the Lord that redeems you, and who formed you from the womb: I am the Lord that performs all things; I stretched out the heaven alone, and established the earth.
So liljon,
You mean they are the same? They cannot communicate then between one another then?
That denies a lot of scripture.Hi liljon,
Yeshua said
“The Father and I are one”He could have said they are 'the same' ,or 'one and the same' but he carefully chose his words and did not say those things.
Should we say what he did not say?
no it doesn't liljon,
It says Yeshua was with God in the beginning.
It says the Father is the God of Yeshua.Quote (liljon @ Jan. 27 2005,16:40) Scripture tells us that they are the same God
To liljon,Scripture tells us that Yeshua is the son of God. You say he is God. Shall I depart the truth of scripture and follow your words?
Yeshua built his Church on the following truth:
Matthew 16:16-18
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.So I refuse to let the gates of Hades to overcome this truth to me.
Yeshua is the Messiah and the Son of God. I build on this foundation. You build on the Trinity doctrine, (Greek philosophy).
I also offer you the following:
John 16:27
No, the Father himself loves you because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God.John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.So liljon, it is eternal life to believe that God sent Jesus Christ and that Jesus came from God. So what do you offer if I change that belief and follow yours?
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