Which Bible should I believe?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 25 2013,11:14)

Mike, Where does Scripture speak of bit water and pillars that have nothing to do with earth?

See Gen 1:6 for the waters, and Job 26:11 for the pillars. For clouds, see Daniel 7:13, or Matthew 26:64.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 25 2013,14:27)

Proverbs 8:27-29 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: 28 when he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: 29 when he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

You can also use Psalm 24:1-2, where the foundations of the earth are set upon the seas.

You have made your point.  

But then there are scriptures such as these:

Isaiah 48:13
My own hand laid the foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens………..

Proverbs 3:19
By wisdom the Lord laid the earth’s foundations, by understanding he set the heavens in place……….

These make it seem like the earth came first, and the heavens afterwards. But is that the case?

My conclusion is that “foundations” ALWAYS refer to that which came first.  In the passage you quoted, and in the psalm I quoted, I can only imagine that the “foundations” refer to the BEGINNING of the land part of the earth, and not to the beginning of the earth itself.

That would also fit this psalm:

Psalm 18:15
The valleys of the sea were exposed and the foundations of the earth laid bare at your rebuke, Lord, at the blast of breath from your nostrils.

But then look at this one:

1 Samuel 2:8
For the foundations of the earth are the Lord’s; on them he has set the world.

At any rate, you seem to believe that God created the heavens and the earth at the same time…… a thought which seems to be contradicted by the passage YOU quoted.  And you believe that God formed the world, then created the angels, and then set the foundations of the world, at which time those newly created angels rejoiced.

I'm with Wakeup on this one……….. if that's what you want to believe about it, then go ahead and believe it.

I will continue to believe that the angels were there when God actually formed the earth, and rejoiced at the sight of this action.

Don't forget that “foundation” ALWAYS means “beginning”, or “first stone laid”.  In the psalm I quoted, it seems to refer to the beginning of the LAND part of the earth, but the word “foundation” still refers to the BEGINNING of that land part of the earth.

And in Job 38, I believe it refers to the beginning of the earth itself, and not to only the LAND part of the earth.

You have the right to your own understanding.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 27 2013,22:20)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 25 2013,11:14) Mike, Where does Scripture speak of bit water and pillars that have nothing to do with earth? See Gen 1:6 for the waters, and Job 26:11 for the pillars.  For clouds, see Daniel 7:13, or Matthew 26:64.

Mike,

Could you please give me your understanding so I don't have to guess at it?

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 27 2013,23:14)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 25 2013,14:27) Proverbs 8:27-29 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: 28 when he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: 29 when he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: You can also use Psalm 24:1-2, where the foundations of the earth are set upon the seas. You have made your point.   But then there are scriptures such as these: Isaiah 48:13 My own hand laid the foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens……….. Proverbs 3:19 By wisdom the Lord laid the earth’s foundations, by understanding he set the heavens in place………. These make it seem like the earth came first, and the heavens afterwards. But is that the case? My conclusion is that “foundations” ALWAYS refer to that which came first.  In the passage you quoted, and in the psalm I quoted, I can only imagine that the “foundations” refer to the BEGINNING of the land part of the earth, and not to the beginning of the earth itself. That would also fit this psalm: Psalm 18:15 The valleys of the sea were exposed and the foundations of the earth laid bare at your rebuke, Lord, at the blast of breath from your nostrils. But then look at this one: 1 Samuel 2:8 For the foundations of the earth are the Lord’s; on them he has set the world. At any rate, you seem to believe that God created the heavens and the earth at the same time…… a thought which seems to be contradicted by the passage YOU quoted.  And you believe that God formed the world, then created the angels, and then set the foundations of the world, at which time those newly created angels rejoiced. I'm with Wakeup on this one……….. if that's what you want to believe about it, then go ahead and believe it. I will continue to believe that the angels were there when God actually formed the earth, and rejoiced at the sight of this action. Don't forget that “foundation” ALWAYS means “beginning”, or “first stone laid”.  In the psalm I quoted, it seems to refer to the beginning of the LAND part of the earth, but the word “foundation” still refers to the BEGINNING of that land part of the earth. And in Job 38, I believe it refers to the beginning of the earth itself, and not to only the LAND part of the earth. You have the right to your own understanding.

Mike,

You did a fine job here.

My support for believing both heaven and earth were created and filled at the same time is that Genesis 1-2 state uses a conjunction to state in the beginning God created them both. It also states that it is an account of the generations of the heavens and the earth.

According to Scripture the corner stone seems to be the top stone of the corner of the foundation and the last stone of the foundation that is laid. Today there is both a foundation stone and a corner stone with the earlier being the first stone laid and the later being the first stone laid above ground level. The later is also a dedication stone if there is a dedication stone.

[Wakeup]

Ions ago the angels and their habitations were created.
There are many mansions in heaven created.
The creation account in genesis is about the creation of the earth,the solar system, and man,and animals.

Next will be paradise on earth,then new earth.
At this moment is the RENEWING of man's spirit.
our spirit is being REFURBISHED.
Some do willingly obey.
Some has to go through the fire,to be scrubbed clean.
A steel brush is needed.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 28 2013,05:34)

Ions ago the angels and their habitations were created. There are many mansions in heaven created. The creation account in genesis is about the creation of the earth,the solar system, and man,and animals. Next will be paradise on earth,then new earth. At this moment is the RENEWING of man's spirit. our spirit is being REFURBISHED. Some do willingly obey. Some has to go through the fire,to be scrubbed clean. A steel brush is needed. wakeup.

w

Quote

Next will be paradise on earth,then new earth. At this moment is the RENEWING of man's spirit.

you will not see the new earth if you do not change your spirit now ,when you can ,and you say you fund truth of God ,so this is your fire ;stay away from the world and follow Christ, with your heart

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 28 2013,10:43)

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 28 2013,05:34) Ions ago the angels and their habitations were created. There are many mansions in heaven created. The creation account in genesis is about the creation of the earth,the solar system, and man,and animals. Next will be paradise on earth,then new earth. At this moment is the RENEWING of man's spirit. our spirit is being REFURBISHED. Some do willingly obey. Some has to go through the fire,to be scrubbed clean. A steel brush is needed. wakeup. w Quote Next will be paradise on earth,then new earth. At this moment is the RENEWING of man's spirit. you will not see the new earth if you do not change your spirit now ,when you can ,and you say you fund truth of God ,so this is your fire ;stay away from the world and follow Christ, with your heart

T.

Those Words Does not proof anything.
It only shows your ignorance.
Instead of adding some knowledge to my post,
You come on like a juvenile.

Have you got nothing useful to say?
I forgot; you're still on the breast.
And sometimes spit the dummy.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 28 2013,06:18)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 28 2013,10:43) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 28 2013,05:34) Ions ago the angels and their habitations were created. There are many mansions in heaven created. The creation account in genesis is about the creation of the earth,the solar system, and man,and animals. Next will be paradise on earth,then new earth. At this moment is the RENEWING of man's spirit. our spirit is being REFURBISHED. Some do willingly obey. Some has to go through the fire,to be scrubbed clean. A steel brush is needed. wakeup. w Quote Next will be paradise on earth,then new earth. At this moment is the RENEWING of man's spirit. you will not see the new earth if you do not change your spirit now ,when you can ,and you say you fund truth of God ,so this is your fire ;stay away from the world and follow Christ, with your heart T. Those Words Does not proof anything. It only shows your ignorance. Instead of adding some knowledge to my post, You come on like a juvenile. Have you got nothing useful to say? I forgot; you're still on the breast. And sometimes spit the dummy. wakeup.

w

read these scriptures;
JN 6:32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven.
JN 6:40 “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

JN 14:21 “ He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”

Jn 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

your comment is a lie ,those scriptures prove it

[kerwin]

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 28 2013,05:34)

Ions ago the angels and their habitations were created. There are many mansions in heaven created. The creation account in genesis is about the creation of the earth,the solar system, and man,and animals. Next will be paradise on earth,then new earth. At this moment is the RENEWING of man's spirit. our spirit is being REFURBISHED. Some do willingly obey. Some has to go through the fire,to be scrubbed clean. A steel brush is needed. wakeup.

Wakeup,

You are incorrect as in beginning God created the heaven and the earth. On the second day he created the heaven of earth. So it is clear that the heaven he created in the beginning is not the heaven of earth.

On the first Night and Day he created light and separated it from the darkness to make the a Night and a Day but he did not separate the light from the darkness on earth until the Forth Night and Day. In fact the sun, the moon, and the stars did not shine until that same day.

So, though most things covered in the account are things of earth there are a few things of heaven that are also written about.

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 28 2013,14:52)

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 28 2013,06:18) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 28 2013,10:43) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 28 2013,05:34) Ions ago the angels and their habitations were created. There are many mansions in heaven created. The creation account in genesis is about the creation of the earth,the solar system, and man,and animals. Next will be paradise on earth,then new earth. At this moment is the RENEWING of man's spirit. our spirit is being REFURBISHED. Some do willingly obey. Some has to go through the fire,to be scrubbed clean. A steel brush is needed. wakeup. w Quote Next will be paradise on earth,then new earth. At this moment is the RENEWING of man's spirit. you will not see the new earth if you do not change your spirit now ,when you can ,and you say you fund truth of God ,so this is your fire ;stay away from the world and follow Christ, with your heart T. Those Words Does not proof anything. It only shows your ignorance. Instead of adding some knowledge to my post, You come on like a juvenile. Have you got nothing useful to say? I forgot; you're still on the breast. And sometimes spit the dummy. wakeup. w read these scriptures; JN 6:32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. JN 6:40 “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” JN 14:21 “ He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.” Jn 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. your comment is a lie ,those scriptures prove it

T.

Dont go all over the place.
we were talking about creations.

So sit still keep your dummy,and just listen.

wakeup.

[Wakeup]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 28 2013,16:08)

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 28 2013,05:34) Ions ago the angels and their habitations were created. There are many mansions in heaven created. The creation account in genesis is about the creation of the earth,the solar system, and man,and animals. Next will be paradise on earth,then new earth. At this moment is the RENEWING of man's spirit. our spirit is being REFURBISHED. Some do willingly obey. Some has to go through the fire,to be scrubbed clean. A steel brush is needed. wakeup. Wakeup, You are incorrect as in beginning God created the heaven and the earth.  On the second day he created the heaven of earth.  So it is clear that the heaven he created in the beginning is not the heaven of earth.   On the first Night and Day he created light and separated it from the darkness to make the a Night and a Day but he did not separate the light from the darkness on earth until the Forth Night and Day.  In fact the sun, the moon, and the stars did not shine until that same day. So, though most things covered in the account are things of earth there are a few things of heaven that are also written about.

Kerwin.

1.The earth was a ball of water;and it was dark.
and it was without form; just plain round;like a big drop of
water,in a dark place. And it was void,no fish ,no life of
any kind.No mountains,no warterfalls.Just a ball.
2.God said: let there be light; the next thing is that the
water started evaporating.(this is science). the waters are
being seperated;the waters from the waters.(clouds
form).now life can exist.part of the waters went up,now
land appeared.
3.Now the green vegetation cames up.
life in the waters; then mammals were created.
4. The garden of eden was landscaped with the two trees.
then Adam and Eve were created.

AND SO IT WAS; THAT:
5.God created two great lights,and he created the stars also
the greater light to rule the day,and God saw; and IT WAS
GOOD. GOD was satified with his work on the fourth day.
the earth is ready to be inhabited,and filled with living
creatures,God passed it. and he said it is good,lets go
ahead. This was on the fourth day.
6. And all life was on the earth.

7. It's all about the earth.Gods kingdom in heaven and the
mansions was already,long,long time ago.

wakeup.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 27 2013,14:25)

My support for believing both heaven and earth were created and filled at the same time is that Genesis 1-2 state uses a conjunction to state in the beginning God created them both.  It also states that it is an account of  the generations of the heavens and the earth.

Like I said, you have the right to believe whatever you like.

But look at this psalm:

Psalm 102:25 NIV
In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.

According to the “support” you are using, the foundations of the earth were laid from the very beginning – not AFTER God formed the earth.

(The NIV translation of that psalm is supported by the words of Hebrews 1:10)

To me, it seems odd that anyone would even think that God first formed the earth, but the angels only rejoiced when He made land come out of the water.

It makes much more sense to me that the angels rejoiced when He actually formed the earth.

There are scriptures that can be used for support either way – but one makes much more sense than the other.

And as far as I know, you are the ONLY person who holds your belief that God formed the earth, then created the angels, and then “laid the foundations of the earth” – at which time the angels were awestruck and rejoiced.

But you believe what you want.

[kerwin]

Mike,

According to the wording both heaven and earth were completely formed(shaped) in the beginning even though earth was void and without form(order). You may consider that the foundations of earth but the question is does Scripture. From what I have learned so far the answer is no.

According to Jeremiah 4:23-28 it appears that the earth could be said to be without form and void until the first living creature appeared. That is just another piece of the puzzle to be fit into the puzzle in the hopes of perceiving the whole picture.

[kerwin]

Mike,

The celebration of the Second Temple occurred when/after the foundation was laid by the builders the people celebrated. Does that seem strange to you?

Jesus is called the head stone of the corner which is definitely not the first stone laid. His importance should make it clear that the head stone of the corner is the most important stone in the building.

[mikeboll64]

Kerwin,

I and the sane people of the world already “perceive the whole picture” on this one. I'll leave you to your “search for the whole picture”.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 28 2013,15:26)

Mike, The celebration of the Second Temple occurred when/after the foundation was laid by the builders the people celebrated.  Does that seem strange to you?

Not at all.  It WOULD seem strange to learn that the temple had already been built BEFORE they laid its foundation.

And that is what you claim happened with the earth….  that God first made the earth,  and THEN laid its foundations.

[kerwin]

Wakeup,

On the third Night and Day the sun and stars did not shine and the moon did not reflect light in the sky as they were lighted on the forth Night and Day. Earth and only night until the the forth Night and Day as God had not yet appointed a night and day for it.

You are claiming light and darkness were divided for earth before God appointed the Sun and the Moon “to divide the light from the darkness”. Why do you believe that?

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 29 2013,08:22)

Kerwin, I and the sane people of the world already “perceive the whole picture” on this one.  I'll leave you to your “search for the whole picture”.

Mike,

You just are afraid to test your own doctrine.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 29 2013,08:28)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 28 2013,15:26) Mike, The celebration of the Second Temple occurred when/after the foundation was laid by the builders the people celebrated.  Does that seem strange to you?   Not at all.  It WOULD seem strange to learn that the temple had already been built BEFORE they laid its foundation. And that is what you claim happened with the earth….  that God first made the earth,  and THEN laid its foundations.

Mike,

What I am saying is that is not your opinion of when earth is finished being built but God's and he rested on the seventh day after he had finished building both the earth and the heaven.

[Wakeup]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 29 2013,17:11)

Wakeup, On the third Night and Day the sun and stars did not shine and the moon did not reflect  light in the sky as they were lighted on the forth Night and Day.  Earth and only night until the the forth Night and Day as God had not yet appointed a night and day for it. You are claiming light and darkness were divided for earth before God appointed the Sun and the Moon “to divide the light from the darkness”.  Why do you believe that?

Kerwin.

Let there be light,and the waters evaporated.
Not on the fouth day,

wakeup.

[Author]

Posts