- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (tigger2 @ Nov. 10 2013,06:35) Thank you, Mike. I truly believe that my study proves that “a god” was intended by John at 1:1c.
Well, you 'truly' believe a falsehood sir.Now that's what I like: a truly careful examination of all the evidence and a clear, intelligent reply which covers all the pertinent points.
Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 12 2013,23:50) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 13 2013,11:36)
This whole thing started because journey and Wakeup believe God created evil itself.
Yes we do. He said it himself and we believe him.
But that's the point, journey. Did God really say He “created evil”?The fact of the matter is that the Hebrew word translated as “created” in Isaiah 45:7 is “bara”, and is translated elsewhere by the KJV as “dispatched”………
Ezekiel 23:47 KJV
And the company shall stone them with stones, and dispatch them with their swords; they shall slay their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire.The fact of the matter is that the Hebrew word translated as “evil” in Isaiah 45:7 is “ra”, and is translated elsewhere by the KJV as “adversity”………..
Psalm 10:6
He hath said in his heart, I shall not be moved: for I shall never be in adversity.Psalm 94:13
That thou mayest give him rest from the days of adversity, until the pit be digged for the wicked.Ecclesiastes 7:14
In the day of prosperity be joyful, but in the day of adversity consider: God also hath set the one over against the other, to the end that man should find nothing after him.The same word is translated elsewhere by the KJV as “affliction”………….
Nehemiah 1:3
And they said unto me, The remnant that are left of the captivity there in the province are in great affliction and reproach: the wall of Jerusalem also is broken down, and the gates thereof are burned with fire.Psalm 34:19
Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivereth him out of them all.Psalm 107:39
Again, they are minished and brought low through oppression, affliction, and sorrow.Jeremiah 48:16
The calamity of Moab is near to come, and his affliction hasteth fast.Obadiah 1:13
Thou shouldest not have entered into the gate of my people in the day of their calamity; yea, thou shouldest not have looked on their affliction in the day of their calamity, nor have laid hands on their substance in the day of their calamity;Zecariah 1:15
And I am very sore displeased with the heathen that are at ease: for I was but a little displeased, and they helped forward the affliction.These same KJV translators also rendered that same Hebrew word as “mischief”, “hurt”, “bad”, “trouble”, and “harm” – among other things.
So my one and only point to you is this: How do you know that Isaiah 45:7 isn't saying that God “dispatches adversity”, or “creates trouble”, or “causes affliction”, etc……… since the same Hebrew words are translated as these very things in other KJV verses?
What I'm telling you, and I hope you can see it with your own eyes from the scriptures I listed, is that there is no scriptural or logical or contextual reason that the words in Isaiah 45:7 must be translated as “create evil”. The KJV authors have translated the same exact words differently in other verses.
So I want you to understand that it was their CHOICE to translate “bara” as “create”, and “ra” as “evil” in Isaiah 45:7. They didn't HAVE TO do such a thing. They had OTHER OPTIONS that they indeed employed in various other scriptures containing the same Hebrew words.
And none of what I've posted above has anything at all to do with “paid scholars that are set up by the Illuminati”. I've merely listed two of the Hebrew words that are used in Isaiah 45:7, and showed you other ways that the KJV translators rendered those same words in other verses.
I'm telling you that the KJV people had a CHOICE to translate “ra” as “adversity” in Psalm 94:13, and they had a CHOICE to translate that same Hebrew word as “evil” in Isaiah 45:7.
And I'm asking you why you believe they made the right CHOICE in Isaiah 45:7.
You can't tell me “God said He created evil, and so I believe it”……….. because you don't know for sure that is what God actually said. With those same Hebrew words, God could have been telling us that He is the one “sending troubles” – as the BBE translation words it.
So…….. are you SURE the KJV people made the right CHOICE in Isaiah 45:7? And how can you be so sure, knowing they translated those same Hebrew words other ways in other scriptures?
Quote (tigger2 @ Nov. 13 2013,18:03) Now that's what I like: a truly careful examination of all the evidence and a clear, intelligent reply which covers all the pertinent points.
Go back and read Jack's signature at the bottom of his post, tigger.There are many things our friend Jack doesn't quite understand about scripture. The fact that God's representatives and vice-regents were often addressed as “YHWH” is just one of them.
Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 12 2013,23:06) Saying the Word was “A” god is taking away God's glory, and the glory of his Word. It is taking away what he is telling us, that in the beginning (of creation)….when he was about to start creating, that it was just him alone. God and his Word which was inside him. No-one else. That is what he is showing us.
Hi journey,I really want to discuss “a god” with you…….. but I want to wait until you at least understand what I'm saying about Isaiah 45:7.
Quote (tigger2 @ Nov. 14 2013,11:03) Now that's what I like: a truly careful examination of all the evidence and a clear, intelligent reply which covers all the pertinent points.
Did you notice my post count under my name? I have heard it all before here and elsewhere. Defend your claim that 1:1c should be translated 'a god.'Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 14 2013,11:13) Quote (tigger2 @ Nov. 13 2013,18:03) Now that's what I like: a truly careful examination of all the evidence and a clear, intelligent reply which covers all the pertinent points.
Go back and read Jack's signature at the bottom of his post, tigger.There are many things our friend Jack doesn't quite understand about scripture. The fact that God's representatives and vice-regents were often addressed as “YHWH” is just one of them.
The nerve of you to find fault with Trinitarians when you say that the Hebrews called messengers by YHWH's name. For the Hebrews to call messengers by YHWH's name would be to profane YHWH's name (Leviticus 24:16). If not, then there is no such thing as profaning His name.If many share the name of YHWH as you suggest, then there is more than one YHWH. Duh! I won't continue to enable one who can't see his own blatant contradictions.
Retire Mike!
Quote I was brought up Seventh Day Adventist and did not catch that subtlety. They are Triniratarians and believe both that Jesus is God and Jesus is the Archangel Michael. –kerwin
I'm not 100% sure I'm right on that and you having been an Adventist might know more, but I remember that distinction being made.
Being an arch angel (chief OF angels) doesn't mean you are necessarily an angel.
Architect doesn't mean chief of the itects. :-). Or does it?
Quote (david @ Nov. 14 2013,07:57) Quote I was brought up Seventh Day Adventist and did not catch that subtlety. They are Triniratarians and believe both that Jesus is God and Jesus is the Archangel Michael. –kerwin
I'm not 100% sure I'm right on that and you having been an Adventist might know more, but I remember that distinction being made.
Being an arch angel (chief OF angels) doesn't mean you are necessarily an angel.
Architect doesn't mean chief of the itects. :-). Or does it?
David,It means chief builder. I have never heard where arch x meant chief of x where x job. I not that familiar with Koine Greek either.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Nov. 14 2013,07:02) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 14 2013,11:13) Quote (tigger2 @ Nov. 13 2013,18:03) Now that's what I like: a truly careful examination of all the evidence and a clear, intelligent reply which covers all the pertinent points.
Go back and read Jack's signature at the bottom of his post, tigger.There are many things our friend Jack doesn't quite understand about scripture. The fact that God's representatives and vice-regents were often addressed as “YHWH” is just one of them.
The nerve of you to find fault with Trinitarians when you say that the Hebrews called messengers by YHWH's name. For the Hebrews to call messengers by YHWH's name would be to profane YHWH's name (Leviticus 24:16). If not, then there is no such thing as profaning His name.If many share the name of YHWH as you suggest, then there is more than one YHWH. Duh! I won't continue to enable one who can't see his own blatant contradictions.
Retire Mike!
KJ,The Hebrews teach that some angels are called by Jehovah's name.
I know that Architect has the word arch in it. Apparently the arch changed everything in building terms. Actually I think the Free Masons admonish the Architect of the universe whoever that is to them.
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 14 2013,13:16) Quote (david @ Nov. 14 2013,07:57) Quote I was brought up Seventh Day Adventist and did not catch that subtlety. They are Triniratarians and believe both that Jesus is God and Jesus is the Archangel Michael. –kerwin
I'm not 100% sure I'm right on that and you having been an Adventist might know more, but I remember that distinction being made.
Being an arch angel (chief OF angels) doesn't mean you are necessarily an angel.
Architect doesn't mean chief of the itects. :-). Or does it?
David,It means chief builder. I have never heard where arch x meant chief of x where x job. I not that familiar with Koine Greek either.
Why do you think angelos (angel/messenger) means “builder”?Quote (david @ Nov. 14 2013,08:27) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 14 2013,13:16) Quote (david @ Nov. 14 2013,07:57) Quote I was brought up Seventh Day Adventist and did not catch that subtlety. They are Triniratarians and believe both that Jesus is God and Jesus is the Archangel Michael. –kerwin
I'm not 100% sure I'm right on that and you having been an Adventist might know more, but I remember that distinction being made.
Being an arch angel (chief OF angels) doesn't mean you are necessarily an angel.
Architect doesn't mean chief of the itects. :-). Or does it?
David,It means chief builder. I have never heard where arch x meant chief of x where x job. I not that familiar with Koine Greek either.
Why do you think angelos (angel/messenger) means “builder”?
David,Architect means chief builder.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Nov. 14 2013,07:02) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 14 2013,11:13) Quote (tigger2 @ Nov. 13 2013,18:03) Now that's what I like: a truly careful examination of all the evidence and a clear, intelligent reply which covers all the pertinent points.
Go back and read Jack's signature at the bottom of his post, tigger.There are many things our friend Jack doesn't quite understand about scripture. The fact that God's representatives and vice-regents were often addressed as “YHWH” is just one of them.
The nerve of you to find fault with Trinitarians when you say that the Hebrews called messengers by YHWH's name. For the Hebrews to call messengers by YHWH's name would be to profane YHWH's name (Leviticus 24:16). If not, then there is no such thing as profaning His name.If many share the name of YHWH as you suggest, then there is more than one YHWH. Duh! I won't continue to enable one who can't see his own blatant contradictions.
Retire Mike!
KJif you would read the scriptures without a precondition mind and religion knowledge ;
just the scriptures you would never come to the conclusion of the trinity;
for one good reason ;it would take to much illogical explanations what would not match with the true knowledge in scriptures ,
all it takes to become a trinitarian is to leave the scriptures get drunk into bias,false religion doctrines ,and then come back to the scriptures and try to find some explanation for that trinity garbage
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 14 2013,11:07) Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 12 2013,23:50) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 13 2013,11:36)
This whole thing started because journey and Wakeup believe God created evil itself.
Yes we do. He said it himself and we believe him.
But that's the point, journey. Did God really say He “created evil”?The fact of the matter is that the Hebrew word translated as “created” in Isaiah 45:7 is “bara”, and is translated elsewhere by the KJV as “dispatched”………
Ezekiel 23:47 KJV
And the company shall stone them with stones, and dispatch them with their swords; they shall slay their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire.The fact of the matter is that the Hebrew word translated as “evil” in Isaiah 45:7 is “ra”, and is translated elsewhere by the KJV as “adversity”………..
Psalm 10:6
He hath said in his heart, I shall not be moved: for I shall never be in adversity.Psalm 94:13
That thou mayest give him rest from the days of adversity, until the pit be digged for the wicked.Ecclesiastes 7:14
In the day of prosperity be joyful, but in the day of adversity consider: God also hath set the one over against the other, to the end that man should find nothing after him.The same word is translated elsewhere by the KJV as “affliction”………….
Nehemiah 1:3
And they said unto me, The remnant that are left of the captivity there in the province are in great affliction and reproach: the wall of Jerusalem also is broken down, and the gates thereof are burned with fire.Psalm 34:19
Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivereth him out of them all.Psalm 107:39
Again, they are minished and brought low through oppression, affliction, and sorrow.Jeremiah 48:16
The calamity of Moab is near to come, and his affliction hasteth fast.Obadiah 1:13
Thou shouldest not have entered into the gate of my people in the day of their calamity; yea, thou shouldest not have looked on their affliction in the day of their calamity, nor have laid hands on their substance in the day of their calamity;Zecariah 1:15
And I am very sore displeased with the heathen that are at ease: for I was but a little displeased, and they helped forward the affliction.These same KJV translators also rendered that same Hebrew word as “mischief”, “hurt”, “bad”, “trouble”, and “harm” – among other things.
So my one and only point to you is this: How do you know that Isaiah 45:7 isn't saying that God “dispatches adversity”, or “creates trouble”, or “causes affliction”, etc……… since the same Hebrew words are translated as these very things in other KJV verses?
What I'm telling you, and I hope you can see it with your own eyes from the scriptures I listed, is that there is no scriptural or logical or contextual reason that the words in Isaiah 45:7 must be translated as “create evil”. The KJV authors have translated the same exact words differently in other verses.
So I want you to understand that it was their CHOICE to translate “bara” as “create”, and “ra” as “evil” in Isaiah 45:7. They didn't HAVE TO do such a thing. They had OTHER OPTIONS that they indeed employed in various other scriptures containing the same Hebrew words.
And none of what I've posted above has anything at all to do with “paid scholars that are set up by the Illuminati”. I've merely listed two of the Hebrew words that are used in Isaiah 45:7, and showed you other ways that the KJV translators rendered those same words in other verses.
I'm telling you that the KJV people had a CHOICE to translate “ra” as “adversity” in Psalm 94:13, and they had a CHOICE to translate that same Hebrew word as “evil” in Isaiah 45:7.
And I'm asking you why you believe they made the right CHOICE in Isaiah 45:7.
You can't tell me “God said He created evil, and so I believe it”……….. because you don't know for sure that is what God actually said. With those same Hebrew words, God could have been telling us that He is the one “sending troubles” – as the BBE translation words it.
So…….. are you SURE the KJV people made the right CHOICE in Isaiah 45:7? And how can you be so sure, knowing they translated those same Hebrew words other ways in other scriptures?
Mike B.Ra' is an egyptian word for the SUN.
They worship the sungod.
The greek bible is also translated in egypt,with a mixture of
greek myth, and egyptian myth,and pagan myth; all blended in together,to compromise with the pagans.Even if evil should be translated as dispatched.
Dispatched what? dispatched dispatch?
The fact can not change.
Without the Word was **not anything** made
that was made. This means evil was made also,by the Word.Darkness was made by God also. or not?
You believe that God can do anything.
**But** there is an exception to you.
This means that he can not do everything.God created lucifer;**knowing** that he is evil.
God did not change his mind, but carried on creating him.
***I CREATED THE WASTER TO DESTROY***.
THE *I* IS GOD.
OR HAVE YOU NOW HAVE ANOTHER WORD FOR: *CREATED*
SOMEWHERE HIDDEN IN THE CLOSET?OUT OF THE MOUTH OF THE MOST HIGH PROCEEDETH NOT EVIL AND GOOD?
GO AND FIND ANOTHER TRANSLATION FOR THIS SCRIPTURE. (( PROCEEDETH NOT **DISPATCHED**: YOU HAPPY WITH THIS))?Israel is lost because of lack of knowledge.
wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 14 2013,10:29) Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 12 2013,23:50) Keep going, you're getting me on fire!
My intention was to light a fire under your butt, to get you moving in the right direction. When the fire hits your butt, you are supposed to start moving – not just sit there until you're completely on fire.
You and David have made my day with your humor.
Hi Mike
I've got visitors staying with me ATM, so I'm jumping on whenever I can here and there. I just caught up on a whole page of posts I missed here and trying to address all questions.
Sorry If I've missed any, you can always bring them to my attention again, ie, copy and paste the question so I don't have to go back and look for it. My computer is so slow atm.tigger2,Nov. wrote:[/quote]
Quote Now that's what I like: a truly careful examination of all the evidence and a clear, intelligent reply which covers all the pertinent points. Intelligence has nothing to do with wisdom.
Even a scientist can be a fool.1 Corinthians 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
Who are you talking to by the way?
When I was in primary school, I learn't how to address someone when writing to them.eg, To Mum or To Dad,
so the receiver didn't have to “guess” who the letter was to.
That would be an intelligent thing to do, so the right person can answer you.What was your point and what post?
Was it the one with the worldly men agreeing that there are other false gods existing?
If so, I told you I agreed that there are other gods, howbeit false gods.
I also explained to you that these false gods only became gods when man started worshiping them,
and I explained to you that John 1:1 is God showing us that, in the beginning of creation, obviously before he “started” creating, that there was only God and his Word there, and no-one else.So by your own intelligence, can you please state if there were other “gods” there at the time being worshiped by man before anything was created? In the beginning?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
