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Quote (4Thomas @ Mar. 10 2013,20:58) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 09 2013,13:39) Quote (4Thomas @ Mar. 06 2013,23:48) It says here that the Father will send the Holy Spirit in Jesus name (Jesus is the one who is talking)
That is correct.I'm still not seeing how you are using this verse to equate Jesus with our God and his God.
In fact, let me cut to the chase, Daniel:
John 20:17
Jesus said…….. “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”Who do you suppose Jesus meant by “my Father” and “my God” in that statement?
Totally agree and so very thankful for it also.The Eternal Son became *man*
Meaning his Father became his God -so- his Father could become *our* Father so -we- could become adopted Sons of God.Where is Jesus Christ in the old testament and what is his name?
Where is the name Jehovah in the new testament?
Mike, Jesus became a man for our sake so would appreciate if we looked at *what* Jesus was before he become a man instead of looking at the word made flesh. Hope this is ok with you.
Hi Daniel,Do you believe Jesus was God before being born of Mary?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Daniel,
and welcome to the HN site
please only believe what scriptures are saying ,their is lots of twisting going on ;so stick to scriptures.:)
The spirit Son, who incarnate as the duel origin being as Jesus, is the creator of our local universe and this world.
Jesus “Christ Michael” is now sovereign Lord of this world.
His spirit is among us as he poured it out upon all flesh.
We now have the spirit of the Father and the Son available to us.
Caino
Quote (Colter @ Mar. 11 2013,19:15) The spirit Son, who incarnate as the duel origin being as Jesus, is the creator of our local universe and this world. Jesus “Christ Michael” is now sovereign Lord of this world.
His spirit is among us as he poured it out upon all flesh.
We now have the spirit of the Father and the Son available to us.
Caino
it would be nice that you put all the scriptures next to your statements ,like ??spirit son
and;Jesus “Christ Michael” is now sovereign Lord of this world.???and what his that spirit ;His spirit is among us as he poured it out upon all flesh.?
and what are those spirits ;;;We now have the spirit of the Father and the Son available to us.?
OR IS THIS ONLY WHAT OR WANT TO BELIEVE PERSONALLY
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2013,01:05) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 11 2013,19:15) The spirit Son, who incarnate as the duel origin being as Jesus, is the creator of our local universe and this world. Jesus “Christ Michael” is now sovereign Lord of this world.
His spirit is among us as he poured it out upon all flesh.
We now have the spirit of the Father and the Son available to us.
Caino
it would be nice that you put all the scriptures next to your statements ,like ??spirit son
and;Jesus “Christ Michael” is now sovereign Lord of this world.???and what his that spirit ;His spirit is among us as he poured it out upon all flesh.?
and what are those spirits ;;;We now have the spirit of the Father and the Son available to us.?
OR IS THIS ONLY WHAT OR WANT TO BELIEVE PERSONALLY
Quote like ??spirit son
and;Jesus “Christ Michael” is now sovereign Lord of this world.???and what his that spirit ;His spirit is among us as he poured it out upon all flesh.?
and what are those spirits ;;;We now have the spirit of the Father and the Son available to us.?
OR IS THIS ONLY WHAT OR WANT TO BELIEVE PERSONALLY
The OT books that the church canonized in order to support it's authority were written by holy men, they get better from beginning to end. They were written for a more child like mind during an enchanting age. The NT books were written after Paul began to preach his Pagan remix of the original gospel. Basically the NT is Paul's personal opinion about Jesus.
The followers of Jesus had to think for themselves outside of the limitations of the man made scripture.
The enemies of Jesus used the so called sacred scripture to withstand the new Liberal gospel of Jesus.
So if you are limited by one of the thousands of doctrines which rely on the limited bible then you won't get it.
* Jesus/Michael was a celestial being before he incarnate in the flesh.
*Christ Michael poured out his spirit upon all flesh after he returned to his place in heaven. The spirit of truth is the conviction of truth, it is a guide for all sincere truth seekers.
* Before the incarnation we had the spirit of the Father in our souls to guide us, now we have both Christ Michael and the Father.
Colter
Quote (Colter @ Mar. 11 2013,21:53) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2013,01:05) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 11 2013,19:15) The spirit Son, who incarnate as the duel origin being as Jesus, is the creator of our local universe and this world. Jesus “Christ Michael” is now sovereign Lord of this world.
His spirit is among us as he poured it out upon all flesh.
We now have the spirit of the Father and the Son available to us.
Caino
it would be nice that you put all the scriptures next to your statements ,like ??spirit son
and;Jesus “Christ Michael” is now sovereign Lord of this world.???and what his that spirit ;His spirit is among us as he poured it out upon all flesh.?
and what are those spirits ;;;We now have the spirit of the Father and the Son available to us.?
OR IS THIS ONLY WHAT OR WANT TO BELIEVE PERSONALLY
Quote like ??spirit son
and;Jesus “Christ Michael” is now sovereign Lord of this world.???and what his that spirit ;His spirit is among us as he poured it out upon all flesh.?
and what are those spirits ;;;We now have the spirit of the Father and the Son available to us.?
OR IS THIS ONLY WHAT OR WANT TO BELIEVE PERSONALLY
The OT books that the church canonized in order to support it's authority were written by holy men, they get better from beginning to end. They were written for a more child like mind during an enchanting age. The NT books were written after Paul began to preach his Pagan remix of the original gospel. Basically the NT is Paul's personal opinion about Jesus.
The followers of Jesus had to think for themselves outside of the limitations of the man made scripture.
The enemies of Jesus used the so called sacred scripture to withstand the new Liberal gospel of Jesus.
So if you are limited by one of the thousands of doctrines which rely on the limited bible then you won't get it.
* Jesus/Michael was a celestial being before he incarnate in the flesh.
*Christ Michael poured out his spirit upon all flesh after he returned to his place in heaven. The spirit of truth is the conviction of truth, it is a guide for all sincere truth seekers.
* Before the incarnation we had the spirit of the Father in our souls to guide us, now we have both Christ Michael and the Father.
Colter
Quote The NT books were written after Paul began to preach his Pagan remix of the original gospel. Basically the NT is Paul's personal opinion about Jesus. you have been brain washed ,Paul is one of the true apostles ,
Quote Jesus “Christ Michael” show me scriptures
?Quote (Colter @ Mar. 11 2013,21:53) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2013,01:05) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 11 2013,19:15) The spirit Son, who incarnate as the duel origin being as Jesus, is the creator of our local universe and this world. Jesus “Christ Michael” is now sovereign Lord of this world.
His spirit is among us as he poured it out upon all flesh.
We now have the spirit of the Father and the Son available to us.
Caino
it would be nice that you put all the scriptures next to your statements ,like ??spirit son
and;Jesus “Christ Michael” is now sovereign Lord of this world.???and what his that spirit ;His spirit is among us as he poured it out upon all flesh.?
and what are those spirits ;;;We now have the spirit of the Father and the Son available to us.?
OR IS THIS ONLY WHAT OR WANT TO BELIEVE PERSONALLY
Quote like ??spirit son
and;Jesus “Christ Michael” is now sovereign Lord of this world.???and what his that spirit ;His spirit is among us as he poured it out upon all flesh.?
and what are those spirits ;;;We now have the spirit of the Father and the Son available to us.?
OR IS THIS ONLY WHAT OR WANT TO BELIEVE PERSONALLY
The OT books that the church canonized in order to support it's authority were written by holy men, they get better from beginning to end. They were written for a more child like mind during an enchanting age. The NT books were written after Paul began to preach his Pagan remix of the original gospel. Basically the NT is Paul's personal opinion about Jesus.
The followers of Jesus had to think for themselves outside of the limitations of the man made scripture.
The enemies of Jesus used the so called sacred scripture to withstand the new Liberal gospel of Jesus.
So if you are limited by one of the thousands of doctrines which rely on the limited bible then you won't get it.
* Jesus/Michael was a celestial being before he incarnate in the flesh.
*Christ Michael poured out his spirit upon all flesh after he returned to his place in heaven. The spirit of truth is the conviction of truth, it is a guide for all sincere truth seekers.
* Before the incarnation we had the spirit of the Father in our souls to guide us, now we have both Christ Michael and the Father.
Colter
you know that you do not produced scriptures to your claims why is thatbecause all you know is from your own ,wants to believe .
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2013,03:52) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 11 2013,21:53) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2013,01:05) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 11 2013,19:15) The spirit Son, who incarnate as the duel origin being as Jesus, is the creator of our local universe and this world. Jesus “Christ Michael” is now sovereign Lord of this world.
His spirit is among us as he poured it out upon all flesh.
We now have the spirit of the Father and the Son available to us.
Caino
it would be nice that you put all the scriptures next to your statements ,like ??spirit son
and;Jesus “Christ Michael” is now sovereign Lord of this world.???and what his that spirit ;His spirit is among us as he poured it out upon all flesh.?
and what are those spirits ;;;We now have the spirit of the Father and the Son available to us.?
OR IS THIS ONLY WHAT OR WANT TO BELIEVE PERSONALLY
Quote like ??spirit son
and;Jesus “Christ Michael” is now sovereign Lord of this world.???and what his that spirit ;His spirit is among us as he poured it out upon all flesh.?
and what are those spirits ;;;We now have the spirit of the Father and the Son available to us.?
OR IS THIS ONLY WHAT OR WANT TO BELIEVE PERSONALLY
The OT books that the church canonized in order to support it's authority were written by holy men, they get better from beginning to end. They were written for a more child like mind during an enchanting age. The NT books were written after Paul began to preach his Pagan remix of the original gospel. Basically the NT is Paul's personal opinion about Jesus.
The followers of Jesus had to think for themselves outside of the limitations of the man made scripture.
The enemies of Jesus used the so called sacred scripture to withstand the new Liberal gospel of Jesus.
So if you are limited by one of the thousands of doctrines which rely on the limited bible then you won't get it.
* Jesus/Michael was a celestial being before he incarnate in the flesh.
*Christ Michael poured out his spirit upon all flesh after he returned to his place in heaven. The spirit of truth is the conviction of truth, it is a guide for all sincere truth seekers.
* Before the incarnation we had the spirit of the Father in our souls to guide us, now we have both Christ Michael and the Father.
Colter
Quote The NT books were written after Paul began to preach his Pagan remix of the original gospel. Basically the NT is Paul's personal opinion about Jesus. you have been brain washed ,Paul is one of the true apostles ,
Quote Jesus “Christ Michael” show me scriptures
?
Paul wasn't taught by Jesus, he came later.John saw Jesus as Michael after Jesus returned to heaven.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Colter
Quote Paul wasn't taught by Jesus, he came later. John saw Jesus as Michael after Jesus returned to heaven.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Colter
those are not scriptures only your opinions
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2013,05:18) Quote Paul wasn't taught by Jesus, he came later. John saw Jesus as Michael after Jesus returned to heaven.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Colter
those are not scriptures only your opinions
It's a direct quote from the Book of Revelation. Is that book in your bible?7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Colter
Quote (Colter @ Mar. 12 2013,00:42) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2013,05:18) Quote Paul wasn't taught by Jesus, he came later. John saw Jesus as Michael after Jesus returned to heaven.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Colter
those are not scriptures only your opinions
It's a direct quote from the Book of Revelation. Is that book in your bible?7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Colter
It does not say that Michael the arch angel HIS Jesus Christ nor does it say HE HIS the son of God almightyQuote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2013,06:41) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 12 2013,00:42) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2013,05:18) Quote Paul wasn't taught by Jesus, he came later. John saw Jesus as Michael after Jesus returned to heaven.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Colter
those are not scriptures only your opinions
It's a direct quote from the Book of Revelation. Is that book in your bible?7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Colter
It does not say that Michael the arch angel HIS Jesus Christ nor does it say HE HIS the son of God almighty
Wrong, it doesn't say that the Michael of the “Book of Revelation is an archangel. It simply uses the name “Michael” and that he commands angels, and that he battled the devil (as Jesus did) and defeated the devil (as Jesus did) and that he is in heaven (as Jesus is).There are other people named Michael like Sether's father, or in the bible, why didn't you choose them??? It's because you live in a bible bubble doctrine world which leaves you unable to think outside the box. That's why it is pointless to use your own scripture.
Colter
Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 11 2013,03:27) Quote (4Thomas @ Mar. 10 2013,20:58) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 09 2013,13:39) Quote (4Thomas @ Mar. 06 2013,23:48) It says here that the Father will send the Holy Spirit in Jesus name (Jesus is the one who is talking)
That is correct.I'm still not seeing how you are using this verse to equate Jesus with our God and his God.
In fact, let me cut to the chase, Daniel:
John 20:17
Jesus said…….. “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”Who do you suppose Jesus meant by “my Father” and “my God” in that statement?
Totally agree and so very thankful for it also.The Eternal Son became *man*
Meaning his Father became his God -so- his Father could become *our* Father so -we- could become adopted Sons of God.Where is Jesus Christ in the old testament and what is his name?
Where is the name Jehovah in the new testament?
Mike, Jesus became a man for our sake so would appreciate if we looked at *what* Jesus was before he become a man instead of looking at the word made flesh. Hope this is ok with you.
Hi Daniel,Do you believe Jesus was God before being born of Mary?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi,
Jesus Christ is not the Father.I believe in an Eternal *Almighty Father* which demands that their is a Eternal Son of God.
This is Eternal generation and testifies of the fathers power. I believe no other explanation aligns more perfectly with the scriptures.
I *don't* believe the Father is static or stationary – I believe he is *eternally* Almighty.
Do you believe in a eternal Almighty God, if so how???
Things need to make sense and align perfectly with the scripturesHow can the Father be eternally Almighty without a eternal testament of his eternal Almighty power?
The Father is eternally Creator, the Son derives his Nature Solely and Directly from his Fathers nature.
This allows the Son to reveal the Father.
John 14:9
New International Version (©2011)
Jesus answered: “Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?New International Version
Colossians 115 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
John 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Hebrews 1:3
The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful wordWhat was Jesus Christ before the World was made??
New International Version (©2011)
John 8:58
“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”Quote (4Thomas @ Mar. 10 2013,03:40) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 10 2013,17:01)
Yes, I believe I get the point. It seems like you are saying that the OLDEST mss have “keep in your name THOSE you have given me”, and the more recent mss have “keep in your name THAT you have given me”. But aren't the OLDEST mss usually considered the best?
Hi Mike,…….you got it around the wrong way………..
So it's the older mss that have “keep in your name that you gave me”? I must have misunderstood your words. Sorry.So let's go with the above translation then, since you say it is the one based off the oldest mss.
What does it mean to you, Daniel, that the Father gave Jesus His name?
Quote (Colter @ Mar. 12 2013,02:17) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2013,06:41) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 12 2013,00:42) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2013,05:18) Quote Paul wasn't taught by Jesus, he came later. John saw Jesus as Michael after Jesus returned to heaven.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Colter
those are not scriptures only your opinions
It's a direct quote from the Book of Revelation. Is that book in your bible?7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Colter
It does not say that Michael the arch angel HIS Jesus Christ nor does it say HE HIS the son of God almighty
Wrong, it doesn't say that the Michael of the “Book of Revelation is an archangel. It simply uses the name “Michael” and that he commands angels, and that he battled the devil (as Jesus did) and defeated the devil (as Jesus did) and that he is in heaven (as Jesus is).There are other people named Michael like Sether's father, or in the bible, why didn't you choose them??? It's because you live in a bible bubble doctrine world which leaves you unable to think outside the box. That's why it is pointless to use your own scripture.
Colter
Read DanielQuote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2013,17:10) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 12 2013,02:17) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2013,06:41) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 12 2013,00:42) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2013,05:18) Quote Paul wasn't taught by Jesus, he came later. John saw Jesus as Michael after Jesus returned to heaven.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Colter
those are not scriptures only your opinions
It's a direct quote from the Book of Revelation. Is that book in your bible?7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Colter
It does not say that Michael the arch angel HIS Jesus Christ nor does it say HE HIS the son of God almighty
Wrong, it doesn't say that the Michael of the “Book of Revelation is an archangel. It simply uses the name “Michael” and that he commands angels, and that he battled the devil (as Jesus did) and defeated the devil (as Jesus did) and that he is in heaven (as Jesus is).There are other people named Michael like Sether's father, or in the bible, why didn't you choose them??? It's because you live in a bible bubble doctrine world which leaves you unable to think outside the box. That's why it is pointless to use your own scripture.
Colter
Read Daniel
Daniel refers to an archangel named “Michael”, and some of Daniels prophecy never happened. The BOR refers to a “Michael” who did what Jesus did while on earth.Colter
Quote (4Thomas @ Mar. 12 2013,11:27) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 11 2013,03:27) Hi Daniel, Do you believe Jesus was God before being born of Mary?
God bless
Ed J
Hi,
Jesus Christ is not the Father.
Hi Daniel,I didn't ask you:
'Daniel, do you believe Jesus Christ is the father'?What I asked instead was:
“Do you believe Jesus was God before being born of Mary?”Will you please answer “the question” I DID ASK?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgDon't be frightened, Daniel. Ed's not mad and yelling at you. He's just a very bold and colorful person.
Quote (Colter @ Mar. 12 2013,04:49) Daniel refers to an archangel named “Michael”, and some of Daniels prophecy never happened. The BOR refers to a “Michael” who did what Jesus did while on earth.
I never even considered that Revelation could be speaking about a DIFFERENT Michael than the one in Daniel.Hmmm…………….. I'll have to take a closer look at that this time through the scriptures.
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