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I started this topic so that the following post would not diverge the topic that it was first posted in.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 23 2013,16:13) Quote (t8 @ Jan. 21 2013,20:12) Perhaps when we consider we are made of atoms, and atoms are made of neutrons, protons, electrons, and electrons are made up of quarks, and if we keep going, perhaps the smallest and deepest thing is God's Spirit.
Okay, let's follow that reasoning for a minute. Let's say that God's Spirit IS what quarks are made of. Now we have two choices:1. The quarks are made ENTIRELY of God's Spirit, meaning the electrons are subsequently made ENTIRELY of God's Spirit, and the atoms are made ENTIRELY of God's Spirit, which means WE are made ENTIRELY of God's Spirit. That means WE are God.
2. The quarks are made PARTLY of God's Spirit. In that case, there are parts of the quarks with AREN'T made of God's Spirit, which means God is NOT everywhere all the time.
At whichever level you decide that humans are made of something OTHER THAN God, you have also decided that God is not everywhere, IMO.
My belief is that God CAN BE anywhere He wants to be at any particular time. But He is not “everywhere all the time” (omnipresent).
Zechariah 1:8-11 speaks of beings who go about the earth and report what they find back to God. Why the need for the reports?
And Jesus speaks about the angels of little children, who report to the face of God on a daily basis. (Matthew 18:10) Why would these little ones need angels to report back to God about how they were being treated?
There are of course, other scriptural examples such as these.
Mike, I am only speculating.But here are a few points.
Scientists believe that space is something. Even between electrons, there is something. They call it dark matter and dark energy because it cannot be seen.
If you took away all that was visible from the universe, except you and you were able to spin around, what would you be spinning around in relation to? Well that would be space itself. It is said that your arms would still fly out if you spun around because of space itself.
I sometimes think of the universe as layers. What would happen if we went down to the smallest layer what would we find? God? If we went the other way and traveled to the edge of the universe and took a peek, what would we find? God? (I understand that God is invisible, so you wouldn't literally see him). So perhaps the physical realm is but that which sits between the smallest and the biggest. A certain state that God holds with his Word.
Interestingly enough, The Planck Length describes the limits of the physical realm because if you draw a line from A to B and do so in half distance increments, then you would mathematically be able to travel forever in a straight line and never reach the end. How could that be?
And if you divide time or space and keep doing that would it also go forever? Apparently not. There is apparently a length that is so small it is indivisible. When you drill down to the smallest of things, the laws of the physical universe are no longer what you see, thus why Quantum Physics is so hard to understand. Is that an edge or a boundary to the universe if the universe is defined as being governed by physical laws.
Because you cannot keep dividing matter and still see matter forever, it stands to reason that there must exist something beyond that and that something would be everywhere. Unless it is really nothing.
Perhaps beyond this micro boundary and beyond the macro boundary is where God's Spirit is. He is the beginning and the end. The smallest and the biggest. He is bigger than the universe and can dwell inside the smallest atom. He dwells in the universe by his spirit and is also outside the universe because even the universe cannot contain him.
Just ideas, and no I don't think that this would make us God. It would certainly mean that we were made by God and sustained by him because God is not the atom itself, but can reside there.
Psalm 139:7-17
7 Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?
8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.
9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
if I settle on the far side of the sea,
10 even there your hand will guide me,
your right hand will hold me fast.
11 If I say, “Surely the darkness will hide me
and the light become night around me,”
12 even the darkness will not be dark to you;
the night will shine like the day,
for darkness is as light to you.
13 For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place,
when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed body;
all the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be.
17 How precious to me are your thoughts,[a] God!
How vast is the sum of them!it make me think ,if a doctor goes into your body with a microscope and try to find what he think his wrong ,and after a while looking HE ASK HIMSELF WERE HIS MY PATIENT I CAN NOT SEE HIM
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 23 2013,18:15) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 23 2013,16:13) Quote (t8 @ Jan. 21 2013,20:12) Perhaps when we consider we are made of atoms, and atoms are made of neutrons, protons, electrons, and electrons are made up of quarks, and if we keep going, perhaps the smallest and deepest thing is God's Spirit.
Okay, let's follow that reasoning for a minute. Let's say that God's Spirit IS what quarks are made of. Now we have two choices:1. The quarks are made ENTIRELY of God's Spirit, meaning the electrons are subsequently made ENTIRELY of God's Spirit, and the atoms are made ENTIRELY of God's Spirit, which means WE are made ENTIRELY of God's Spirit. That means WE are God.
2. The quarks are made PARTLY of God's Spirit. In that case, there are parts of the quarks with AREN'T made of God's Spirit, which means God is NOT everywhere all the time.
At whichever level you decide that humans are made of something OTHER THAN God, you have also decided that God is not everywhere, IMO.
My belief is that God CAN BE anywhere He wants to be at any particular time. But He is not “everywhere all the time” (omnipresent).
Zechariah 1:8-11 speaks of beings who go about the earth and report what they find back to God. Why the need for the reports?
And Jesus speaks about the angels of little children, who report to the face of God on a daily basis. (Matthew 18:10) Why would these little ones need angels to report back to God about how they were being treated?
There are of course, other scriptural examples such as these.
Mike, I am only speculating.But here are a few points.
Scientists believe that space is something. Even between electrons, there is something. They call it dark matter and dark energy because it cannot be seen.
If you took away all that was visible from the universe, except you and you were able to spin around, what would you be spinning around in relation to? Well that would be space itself. It is said that your arms would still fly out if you spun around because of space itself.
I sometimes think of the universe as layers. What would happen if we went down to the smallest layer what would we find? God? If we went the other way and traveled to the edge of the universe and took a peek, what would we find? God? (I understand that God is invisible, so you wouldn't literally see him). So perhaps the physical realm is but that which sits between the smallest and the biggest. A certain state that God holds with his Word.
Interestingly enough, The Planck Length describes the limits of the physical realm because if you draw a line from A to B and do so in half distance increments, then you would mathematically be able to travel forever in a straight line and never reach the end. How could that be?
And if you divide time or space and keep doing that would it also go forever? Apparently not. There is apparently a length that is so small it is indivisible. When you drill down to the smallest of things, the laws of the physical universe are no longer what you see, thus why Quantum Physics is so hard to understand. Is that an edge or a boundary to the universe if the universe is defined as being governed by physical laws.
Because you cannot keep dividing matter and still see matter forever, it stands to reason that there must exist something beyond that and that something would be everywhere. Unless it is really nothing.
Perhaps beyond this micro boundary and beyond the macro boundary is where God's Spirit is. He is the beginning and the end. The smallest and the biggest. He is bigger than the universe and can dwell inside the smallest atom. He dwells in the universe by his spirit and is also outside the universe because even the universe cannot contain him.
Just ideas, and no I don't think that this would make us God. It would certainly mean that we were made by God and sustained by him because God is not the atom itself, but can reside there.
T8,
I believe that the Father's existence is far beyond ours, we're told “Heaven is My throne, and the earth is My footstool.” As one who exists within one of His “boxes” I feel totally incapable of understanding items that exist outside our “box” and I further understand the futility of trying to put “God in a box”, but I believe we're free to speculate as long as we do not exceed guidelines of the truths we have been given.Wm
It is through God's spirit that man is connected to God though God must be in a certain place – my ten cents.
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 24 2013,06:44) it make me think ,if a doctor goes into your body with a microscope and try to find what he think his wrong ,and after a while looking HE ASK HIMSELF WERE HIS MY PATIENT I CAN NOT SEE HIM
True. You disappear at that point.Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 24 2013,15:51) T8,
I believe that the Father's existence is far beyond ours, we're told “Heaven is My throne, and the earth is My footstool.” As one who exists within one of His “boxes” I feel totally incapable of understanding items that exist outside our “box” and I further understand the futility of trying to put “God in a box”, but I believe we're free to speculate as long as we do not exceed guidelines of the truths we have been given.Wm
Thank WM for your 11 cents.Here is my 12 cents.
Jesus has been given all so that all will come under his feet. When that is complete, then Jesus will hand all over to God so that God can dwell IN ALL.
And once God dwells in all, then all of creation is redeemed.
It is also written that not even the universe can contain him. That suggests first off that he exists outside his own creation, but it also suggests that he exists within it too.
After all, we are redeemed because God Spirit lives in us.
Thanks for your post. As always it is a good measure of freedom and truth, with wise advice.
@ 2besee
Yes we are connected to God at the spirit level. Our spirits and his.
What we observe is but a small part of an almost infinite spectrum. Spirit beings are hidden from our view because we have not the physical sense to see the spiritual.
Perhaps our new spiritual bodies will be able to comprehend much more or all of the spectrum.
We will find out one day.
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 24 2013,17:57) @ 2besee Yes we are connected to God at the spirit level. Our spirits and his.
What we observe is but a small part of an almost infinite spectrum. Spirit beings are hidden from our view because we have not the physical sense to see the spiritual.
Perhaps our new spiritual bodies will be able to comprehend much more or all of the spectrum.
We will find out one day.
t8,1John 4,
[8]..God is love.
[18] There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear.1Cor 13,
[8] Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 23 2013,05:15)
He is bigger than the universe and can dwell inside the smallest atom. He dwells in the universe by his spirit and is also outside the universe because even the universe cannot contain him.
Very Good t8.Now consider Jesus is also bigger than the universe since all things were made by and through him. John 1:1-3, Col 1:16
Not only that but by him “Jesus” all things consist or are held together, which would also mean he is bigger than the universe!
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Col 1:17
If that doesn't speak to you about who or what Jesus is then what can?
WJ
WJ, That doesn't make him God, it makes him the Word.
Before there was a creation, there was the Word.If you want to start a topic about the Word, then go right ahead. This topic is about God.
Hi t8 and All,
My point still stands, from what I can tell:
At whichever level you decide that humans are made of something OTHER THAN God, you have also decided that God is not everywhere, IMO.
Can anyone give me reason to think anything different? AS I see it, if God is literally everyWHERE, then He has no choice but to also be everyTHING.
I don't think that God is everywhere myself.
Scripture makes it clear that God will be in all, but this is yet to happen. We are awaiting all things to be put under Jesus feet and then he will hand it back.Unless of course we view God as an eternal conscience and creation is within his own conscience or mind. I guess then you could say that God is everywhere in that creation is a construct of his own mind.
But yeah, is God in my will, or is my big toe part of God? I guess there are things that are not God.
If God is an “eternal conscience”, then all the vile, filthy thoughts mankind thinks are from God.
I'm glad you agree that God is not literally “everywhere all the time”. Not one scripture actually teaches such a thing.
If God is primarily a mind/conscience, then all vile thoughts that come from free agents that he created will surely be destroyed.
WHY DO WE SEE God questioning Satan in Job book
Job 1:7 The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” if God was every were why did he question Satan of his were about what about ADAM after he disobeyed ; Ge 3:9 But the LORD God called to the man, “Where are you?”
it is true that if God wants to know he can know any time he want it ,
I am not making the arguement that God is everywhere all of the time, if you read my posts.
But I did hear once a teacher say, “when God asks you a question, it is not because he needs the answer”.
I would say when God asked where Adam was, that he was likely highlighting why Adam hid from God when before he probably ran out to greet him. A good way to talk about why he hid from God.
Mike, you believe that once only God existed.
Then he brought forth the Word from himself so that the Word was with him.
Then God created all through his Word.So go back to when there was just God.
There was no creation. Just God.
So could it be that there was just God's mind? His conscience.
If not, what else was there. His Spirit?So if there was just God who is life, then where could he put creation that was not possibly within his view or understanding. Did God make a hiding place and put creation there?
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