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Quote (terraricca @ July 05 2011,17:09) edj Quote and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: this is called disobedience,so the return to paradise would obedience,right ?
Pierre
Hi Pierre,Rev 21:22-22:5 And I saw no temple therein: for the LORD GOD Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
And the [Holy City=117] had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God
did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in
the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honor into it. And the gates of it
shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. And they shall bring the glory
and honor of the nations into it. And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth,
neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's
book of life. And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne
of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life,
which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing
of the nations. And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants
shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. And there shall be no night there; and
they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org …(Eccl.9:12-16)Hi Shimmer and everyone else,
Quote He knows every person by name and calls to them. He is in all things – in every atom and element, in every organism and every molecule. He is above all things and in all things – and He lives in you.
Not going to debate this. God revealed to me personally via Holy Spirit/Spirit of Truth that the above quoted statement is God's truth. Post all the scriptures you want. Have read other scriptures that support this and the point is it wasn't scriptures that taught me this fact of reality, it was God.With Love and more love,
Wispringwispring
Quote Not going to debate this. God revealed to me personally via Holy Spirit/Spirit of Truth that the above quoted statement is God's truth. Post all the scriptures you want. Have read other scriptures that support this and the point is it wasn't scriptures that taught me this fact of reality, it was God. Ro 3:4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written:
“So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge.”you do not have to debate anything ,you could have said nothing and we all be better off ,now you have talked so you have open your voice and so open the debate of truth that belong to God ,and his written words
the debate is to make you stand and prove you right,if what you say is true according to God ,as you say.
Pierre
all
1)He knows every person by name and calls to them
2)He is in all things in every atom and element, in every organism and every molecule;
3)He is above all things
4)and He lives in you.
witch of those statement are true ?Scriptures =the spirit of truth
Pierre
God Almighty is in the Spirit Realm which encompasses the whole of the Physical Realm.
The Spirit of God is EVERYWHERE in the Spirit realm and the physical realm.
In the Spirit realm there is no physical matter meaning that a COLLECTION OF MATTER (Body) is in ONE PLACE. Indeed there is no PHYSICAL MATTER to FORM any kind of BODY.
The Spirit (Including God and his Spirit, Jesus, and the Angels) is ENERGY, Force, Power and Intellect.
This 'Spirit' requires no BODY (Collection of elements) because it is PERVASIVE…
God created his Messenging Spirits (Angels) as 'Intelligent Tools' to do his bidding in the PHYSICAL REALM… (Swap the word 'Realm' for 'DIMENSION').
The physical dimension (Length breadth height – and time) is three/Four dimensions as we know it which means that THINGS IN IT are in ONE PLACE AT ONE MOMENT IN TIME…
This is how physical matter – bodies – behave. RULES – Physical Rules govern how the Body acts.
Physical Matter – elements: Atoms (Collection of Neutrons, Electrons, etc), Molecules (Collection of Atoms), Flesh/Material (A collection of Molecules – in a wider sense), BODY (A collection of Flesh/Material parts) all of these things are created from ENERGY…. go back to the beginning of what I said…but these are , to the greater extent, INERT ENERGIES, Powers and Forces.
The energies are TRAPPED WITHIN, held in check by the Physical rules and Laws that govern the physical world and keeps it in unity and harmony.
Man, Living Body and Flesh, is given authority by means of a FREE SPIRIT of Intellect within the Body, to manipulate the material world and unleash the power and energy within the material matter around him.
Hence, we create FIRE… A spontanious release of chemical ENERGY which results in HEAT, LIGHT and other chemical matters depending on the material that is being combusted.
This is all simple physics – God does not allow man to violate the physical laws as God knows that man cannot handle the consequences so although man has made great strides in discovering the physical world he lives in, he really has only scratched the surface of what is possible.
Man dreams of Time-Travel, Space-Travel (Distance no object) and many other 'Impossible' things because SATAN has put these things into his mind to try to do – to try to get man to KILL HIMSELF (God denied Satan the ability to kill man directly).
But, the Spirit realm has been opened up to man – in SPIRIT… he can SEE that there is NO RESTRICTION of WILL (Thought and Act) in the Spirit realm and yearns for it.
But Scriptures tells us that he reaches through himself in vain – only THROUGH the Spirit of Jesus Christ and BY the Spirit of Holiness can he reach that SPIRITUAL LEVEL.
God and his Spirit IS everywhere – for ALL THINGS are sustained BY AND THROUGH Him.
All things are 'monitored' by and through Him.Imagine a Computer system, or a factory, or the human body… Do you not think that there should be a system, a central controller, that MONITORS all areas of the system – at all times ready, alert, responsive to all needs, changes, dangers, invasions, disasters, etc…
If man can devise such systems (Even if Crudely) does he think that God has not also done so – perfectly!
Are we greater than God?
Go down to Sheol, and God is there.
Go to the highest place, and God is there.
Go to the darkest place, and God is there.
Where can you go, and God is not there?Some make a great (and deliberate) error claiming God is not in the Wicked… God is not in Hell, God is not in dark places… Because they misinterpret (deliberately) what is meant by virtue of thinking God is a PHYSICAL BEING who can only be in ONE PLACE. Also, that a GOOD and RIGHTEOUS God would not be in wicked places…
Two things together – the Spirit of God is everywhere – it is SPIRITUALLY PERVADIVE – it is only ABSENT BY SPIRITUAL DENIAL.
ADAM and EVE 'Hid' from God in the same way an offender thinks he is hidden from an InfraRed camera in bushes in a field in the darkest moonless night. And is surprised when he is immediately caught.
If man can 'See' even in the blackest blackness – what about God?Are we greater than God?
Wispring Amen! That God revealed that to you I believe you! What I posted I had quoted and it's definatly helped me see.
Istari, good post!
This has also been revealed to me as you are all seeing it, despite what I was saying a fews ago, that God is one place. NO!
God is within us, God is around us, God is in front of us, He is everywhere!He is there when we live, and there when we die
There when we laugh and there when we cry
Tell him your sorrows and tell him your pain
And when you feel joy, it's your heart he does reign!1 Corinthians 15:24-28
24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
27 For he has put everything under his feet. Now when it says that everything has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.Notice the last part:
so that God may be all in all.My view, (although I haven't delved deep into the subject) is that God dwells in all by default and only removes his spirit because of sin.
So after everything is redeemed through Christ, then God can dwell in all. But this hasn't come to fruition yet.
Perhaps when God dwells in all, the whole of the heavens will light up. Instead of the default darkness with stars there will be light and glory to the point that we will not need the sun for light.
Isaiah 60:19
The sun will no more be your light by day, nor will the brightness of the moon shine on you, for the LORD will be your everlasting light, and your God will be your glory.Revelation 22:5
There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.Physical darkness is caused by light Eminating from a single source.
Like a torch, the Sun, Moonlight, etc. Physical bodied objects stop the light from reaching certain places creating shadows (Absence of Light) (Although there is such a thing as BLACK LIGHT!!)The Light from the Spirit of God is NOT From a single point But from ALL POINTS (EVERYWHERE) as God is EVERYWHERE therefore there can be NO DARKNESS…
There is no object, no place, nowhere, where the light of the Spirit will not be because this light is not physical light subject to the laws of the physical universe…1st John 2:8-11 – The darkness is passing away, and the true light already shines. He who says he is in the light and hates his brother, is in the darkness even until now. He who loves his brother remains in the light, and there is no occasion for stumbling in him. But he who hates his brother is in the darkness, and walks in the darkness, and doesn't know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
1st John 1:5-10 – This is the message which we have heard from him and announce to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
I believe darkness is sin and hate, and everything bad. The light is the opposite. And God is light. And God is love.
I dont really believe it has anything to do with actual light. I think theres two lights, as in Genesis. One is physical light and one is spiritual light…But then when you are in spiritual darkness you dont know where you are going. Just like in the pitch black you dont know where you are going. Untill someone turns on the light.
And that light is love. Its something we all want to be, is loved. And God is love and God is the light… I think I should go to bed. 1:30 Am.
Quote (thehappyman @ July 04 2011,11:01) Hi All
There is nor dominions nor powers nor height nor wideth nor visible nor invisible that can regulate God for He is the creator and master builder. Man is like a vapor without Him. Our Father can go where ever ; when ever , how ever , He wishes to go , my humble opinion and I shall stand for God in like manner for He is my God and yours, Sincerely …..
Hi Happyman,
I agree with your view on this…God's design is in everything but His presence is wherever He wants to be. It is a common teaching that God is everywhere but what fellowship has light with darkness? God CAN be everywhere and His design is in everything but His presence…I don't sense that to be the case. I hope that God will show me if I am in error in this.Blessings,
KathiQuote (Wispring @ July 06 2011,11:01) Hi Shimmer and everyone else, Quote He knows every person by name and calls to them. He is in all things – in every atom and element, in every organism and every molecule. He is above all things and in all things – and He lives in you.
Not going to debate this. God revealed to me personally via Holy Spirit/Spirit of Truth that the above quoted statement is God's truth. Post all the scriptures you want. Have read other scriptures that support this and the point is it wasn't scriptures that taught me this fact of reality, it was God.With Love and more love,
Wispring
If he was in all things then all things would be pure for God is pure.I hope instead that you meant all things are in him as nothing can exist that is not in him.
That is what I meant Kerwin. I see the difference in expression you are making. If I state it the other way I have to use qualifiers such as God is in all things, however, intelligent conscious creatures such as us have the ability to block-out/resist/negate God's presence in us via simple decision making mental processes, whereas, my houseplant and the dirt it grows in does not.
Pierre,
My understanding of this issue is pretty much in agreement with t8, shimmer, Kerwin and Istari. They have posted enough scripture for you to see how it is scripturally supported. If you choose not to understand it this way so be it. It is not an issue for a soul's salvation in my humble opinion. I most likely will never again try to debate or convince you again of anything scriptual because our individual native languages. I feel it to be great a barrier for meaningful discourse. I still believe you are a follower of Christ Jesus and truly love God. I simply don't have any desire to learn your native language to have conversations with you that require nuances that I firmly believe you will miss because of the language barrier that is truly there. No offence brother, I am certain I would miss much of what you would want to communicate to me if you used your native toungue and I was not profficiently fluent in it. I have asked you to improve your english communication skills and you were offended. Even when I meant no offence nor was I questioning you intelligence or your earnestness in teaching things about the bible. I am stating this to you honestly so that you know that I simply feel it would be fruitless to discuss some things with you in depth.With Love and more love,
WispringQuote (Wispring @ July 07 2011,12:27) Pierre,
My understanding of this issue is pretty much in agreement with t8, shimmer, Kerwin and Istari. They have posted enough scripture for you to see how it is scripturally supported. If you choose not to understand it this way so be it. It is not an issue for a soul's salvation in my humble opinion. I most likely will never again try to debate or convince you again of anything scriptual because our individual native languages. I feel it to be great a barrier for meaningful discourse. I still believe you are a follower of Christ Jesus and truly love God. I simply don't have any desire to learn your native language to have conversations with you that require nuances that I firmly believe you will miss because of the language barrier that is truly there. No offence brother, I am certain I would miss much of what you would want to communicate to me if you used your native toungue and I was not profficiently fluent in it. I have asked you to improve your english communication skills and you were offended. Even when I meant no offence nor was I questioning you intelligence or your earnestness in teaching things about the bible. I am stating this to you honestly so that you know that I simply feel it would be fruitless to discuss some things with you in depth.With Love and more love,
Wispring
Wispringyes you right ,but with all the answers on hand now and so I see i am the only one that has vote God is in heaven;
the reason of me answering this way is because it did not differentiate the being from the glory,the being never leaves heaven ,but his glory can be seen in all of his creation,so you see that a question could mean many things when not well said,
but to mean something else it will be relative to each of us in our mind,
so my answer to the question is true and remains true
God is omnipotent ,yes he as all the powers that is needed to sustain anything he really want to,
but heaven is his home so say scriptures ,and it is his glory =his wisdom of creation how things are holding together that we can see and so recognize that he exist,but this not mean that he literally lives in all things that he created,
this would then mean that Mr Chevrolet from GM motors(dead now) still lives in the Chevrolet car model,
technology is not men ,it is the advancement ability of men.Creation is of God but not God,it represent his ability his glory in one word,
Pierre
Quote (Istari @ July 06 2011,22:07) Physical darkness is caused by light Eminating from a single source.
Like a torch, the Sun, Moonlight, etc. Physical bodied objects stop the light from reaching certain places creating shadows (Absence of Light) (Although there is such a thing as BLACK LIGHT!!)The Light from the Spirit of God is NOT From a single point But from ALL POINTS (EVERYWHERE) as God is EVERYWHERE therefore there can be NO DARKNESS…
There is no object, no place, nowhere, where the light of the Spirit will not be because this light is not physical light subject to the laws of the physical universe…
Physical darkness is the lack of physical light.The lack of light can be caused by objects that block light as you say, but can supposedly be from immense gravity that stops light from escaping such as a black hole. In addition, the lack of light can be that, the lack of light, i.e., no light source to begin with.
Space is mainly blackness pierced by the light of stars. Although physical light to us is limited the spectrum that we can see. There are other parts of the spectrum that we cannot see without the aid of instruments.
It is accepted among the scientific community that the universe lit up at some stage. Before stars produced light, there was a dark universe. They also think that if things keep expanding, that things will be so spread out that it will all be dark again. So when you look up to the sky, the closest thing will be out of view. Of course that is their view given their data.
Quote (Istari @ July 07 2011,02:10) God Almighty is in the Spirit Realm which encompasses the whole of the Physical Realm. The Spirit of God is EVERYWHERE in the Spirit realm and the physical realm.
In the Spirit realm there is no physical matter meaning that a COLLECTION OF MATTER (Body) is in ONE PLACE. Indeed there is no PHYSICAL MATTER to FORM any kind of BODY.
The Spirit (Including God and his Spirit, Jesus, and the Angels) is ENERGY, Force, Power and Intellect.
This 'Spirit' requires no BODY (Collection of elements) because it is PERVASIVE…
God created his Messenging Spirits (Angels) as 'Intelligent Tools' to do his bidding in the PHYSICAL REALM… (Swap the word 'Realm' for 'DIMENSION').
The physical dimension (Length breadth height – and time) is three/Four dimensions as we know it which means that THINGS IN IT are in ONE PLACE AT ONE MOMENT IN TIME…
This is how physical matter – bodies – behave. RULES – Physical Rules govern how the Body acts.
Physical Matter – elements: Atoms (Collection of Neutrons, Electrons, etc), Molecules (Collection of Atoms), Flesh/Material (A collection of Molecules – in a wider sense), BODY (A collection of Flesh/Material parts) all of these things are created from ENERGY…. go back to the beginning of what I said…but these are , to the greater extent, INERT ENERGIES, Powers and Forces.
The energies are TRAPPED WITHIN, held in check by the Physical rules and Laws that govern the physical world and keeps it in unity and harmony.
Man, Living Body and Flesh, is given authority by means of a FREE SPIRIT of Intellect within the Body, to manipulate the material world and unleash the power and energy within the material matter around him.
Hence, we create FIRE… A spontanious release of chemical ENERGY which results in HEAT, LIGHT and other chemical matters depending on the material that is being combusted.
This is all simple physics – God does not allow man to violate the physical laws as God knows that man cannot handle the consequences so although man has made great strides in discovering the physical world he lives in, he really has only scratched the surface of what is possible.
Man dreams of Time-Travel, Space-Travel (Distance no object) and many other 'Impossible' things because SATAN has put these things into his mind to try to do – to try to get man to KILL HIMSELF (God denied Satan the ability to kill man directly).
But, the Spirit realm has been opened up to man – in SPIRIT… he can SEE that there is NO RESTRICTION of WILL (Thought and Act) in the Spirit realm and yearns for it.
But Scriptures tells us that he reaches through himself in vain – only THROUGH the Spirit of Jesus Christ and BY the Spirit of Holiness can he reach that SPIRITUAL LEVEL.
God and his Spirit IS everywhere – for ALL THINGS are sustained BY AND THROUGH Him.
All things are 'monitored' by and through Him.Imagine a Computer system, or a factory, or the human body… Do you not think that there should be a system, a central controller, that MONITORS all areas of the system – at all times ready, alert, responsive to all needs, changes, dangers, invasions, disasters, etc…
If man can devise such systems (Even if Crudely) does he think that God has not also done so – perfectly!
Are we greater than God?
Go down to Sheol, and God is there.
Go to the highest place, and God is there.
Go to the darkest place, and God is there.
Where can you go, and God is not there?Some make a great (and deliberate) error claiming God is not in the Wicked… God is not in Hell, God is not in dark places… Because they misinterpret (deliberately) what is meant by virtue of thinking God is a PHYSICAL BEING who can only be in ONE PLACE. Also, that a GOOD and RIGHTEOUS God would not be in wicked places…
Two things together – the Spirit of God is everywhere – it is SPIRITUALLY PERVADIVE – it is only ABSENT BY SPIRITUAL DENIAL.
ADAM and EVE 'Hid' from God in the same way an offender thinks he is hidden from an InfraRed camera in bushes in a field in the darkest moonless night. And is surprised when he is immediately caught.
If man can 'See' even in the blackest blackness – what about God?Are we greater than God?
istarithe question was not if God can see you ;
Quote If man can 'See' even in the blackest blackness – what about God? but where is God ?
Pierre
Deuteronomy 26:15
Look down from heaven, your holy dwelling place,1 Kings 8:30
Hear from heaven, your dwelling place,1 Kings 8:39
then hear from heaven, your dwelling place.1 Kings 8:43
then hear from heaven, your dwelling place,1 Kings 8:49
then from heaven, your dwelling place, hear their prayer and their plea,2 Chronicles 30:27
and God heard them, for their prayer reached heaven, his holy dwelling place.Revelation 13:6
He opened his mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven.I am not at all surprised that I cast the only vote for “Heaven”. This “omnipresent” view has been around for a long time and so has been “grandfathered in”, so to speak.
But you guys need to think in terms of satellites and internet. I could sit in my home in Arizona, and use Google Earth to see just about anyone anywhere that I wanted to. A man can push a button in New Mexico that launches rockets from Spain that destroy China.
Neither me nor that man are “omnipresent”.
Think in terms of David and Saul: There wasn't a place David could hide where Saul couldn't find him. It wasn't because Saul was “omnipresent”, but because Saul had many agents working for him.
Jesus says to not turn children away from God because their angels see the face of God always. “See the face of” means “have an audience with”. So it seems that it's not so much that God Himself is witnessing everything that everyone does, but that He has agents reporting to Him.
There is also a verse in Zechariah where angels are sent throughout the earth to survey its condition, and then report their findings to God.
And God wouldn't have had to ask Satan where he'd come from in Job if He was “omnipresent”.
I believe that God has a presence everywhere. But this presence is not the physical presence of the One who dwells in unapproachable light in heaven. It is through His Spirit and other agencies that God knows all and sees all, IMO.
The U.S.A. displays a massive presence in many countries around the globe. But the 50 states are not PHYSICALLY located inside of Iraq or China or even New Zealand.
That's my two cents, for what it's worth. (Probably two cents, right?
)peace,
mike
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