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Quote (toby @ April 09 2012,18:18) I am not saying the Egyptian or other pagan gods were real entity Gods but “human devised or created in wood or stone, so-called Gods.”
How about Satan? How about the angels who were called gods? How about the Egyptian gods who were able to match the signs Moses did up to a point? Does a “human devised god” have the power to turn a staff into a snake, or produce frogs out of thin air?And how did God “punish” those gods if they were in fact human devised gods of wood or stone?
Exodus 12:12
“On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the LORD.Numbers 33:4
who were burying all their firstborn, whom the LORD had struck down among them; for the LORD had brought judgment on their gods.How is a piece of wood “judged” by Jehovah?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 10 2012,13:52) Quote (toby @ April 09 2012,18:18) I am not saying the Egyptian or other pagan gods were real entity Gods but “human devised or created in wood or stone, so-called Gods.”
How about Satan? How about the angels who were called gods? How about the Egyptian gods who were able to match the signs Moses did up to a point? Does a “human devised god” have the power to turn a staff into a snake, or produce frogs out of thin air?And how did God “punish” those gods if they were in fact human devised gods of wood or stone?
Exodus 12:12
“On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the LORD.Numbers 33:4
who were burying all their firstborn, whom the LORD had struck down among them; for the LORD had brought judgment on their gods.How is a piece of wood “judged” by Jehovah?
Mike, a god is anything which replaces Jehovah God.Heaven Net could be your god, money, your home, television could be. Anything which takes you away from God. There is only one true God and that is Jehovah God, the Father of Jesus. Though people or things (or imagined gods) can be called gods.
(Captial 'G' or small 'g' has nothing to do with it).
In Islam, there were so many gods which people had made, that Mohammad came along and narrowed it down to the 'One True God' which He called 'Allah' which in Arabic means 'The God'. And when in Mecca, Mohammad and His men went to a Temple which was full of statues which represented all of the others gods and destroyed all of them. Apparently He left the statue of Jesus and Mary.
Quote Wikipedia:
Muhammad destroyed the symbols of paganism in Mecca and then sent his followers out to destroy all of the remaining pagan temples throughout Eastern Arabia.
In 630, Muhammad marched on Mecca with an enormous force, said to number more than ten thousand men. With minimal casualties, Muhammad took control of Mecca………………………….. Most Meccans converted to Islam and Muhammad subsequently had destroyed all the statues of Arabian gods in and around the Kaaba. According to reports collected by Ibn Ishaq and al-Azraqi, Muhammad personally spared paintings or frescos of Mary and Jesus, but other traditions suggest that all pictures were erased.
—————————————
Mohammad did not like Images for this reason.
Wikipedia:
In line with the hadith prohibition against creating images of sentient living beings, which is particularly strictly observed with respect to God and the Prophet, Islamic religious art is focused on the word. Muslims generally avoid depictions of Muhammad, and mosques are decorated with calligraphy and Quranic inscriptions or geometrical designs, not images or sculptures. Today, the interdiction against images of Muhammad – designed to prevent worship of Muhammad, rather than God – is much more strictly observed in Sunni Islam (85%–90% of Muslims).
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 10 2012,06:52) Quote (toby @ April 09 2012,18:18) I am not saying the Egyptian or other pagan gods were real entity Gods but “human devised or created in wood or stone, so-called Gods.”
How about Satan? How about the angels who were called gods? How about the Egyptian gods who were able to match the signs Moses did up to a point? Does a “human devised god” have the power to turn a staff into a snake, or produce frogs out of thin air?And how did God “punish” those gods if they were in fact human devised gods of wood or stone?
Exodus 12:12
“On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the LORD.Numbers 33:4
who were burying all their firstborn, whom the LORD had struck down among them; for the LORD had brought judgment on their gods.How is a piece of wood “judged” by Jehovah?
Mike,Had you stopped and considered it was the firstborn that underwent judgement and not Ra and his bunch.
The firstborn would be considered the mighty in a society where they tend to inherit.
MAVET, a Caananite god, the king of the underworld is mentioned in Isaiah 28:15, 18; Jeremiah 9:20;Hos. 13:14; Job 18:13; and Job 28:22
There are other of the fallen mentioned in Scripture but there names are descriptive of there sphere and so they can be confused with it. Mavet is translated death.
Here is what the Jewish encyclopedia writes about the issue.
Quote (kerwin @ April 09 2012,20:00) Mike, Had you stopped and considered it was the firstborn that underwent judgement and not Ra and his bunch.
The firstborn would be considered the mighty in a society where they tend to inherit.
Kerwin,I don't subscribe to the idea that firstborn children were what God and Moses referred to as “gods”.
BUT………………….. it goes to show you that there are INDEED (as Paul says) many gods and many lords, both IN HEAVEN, and on earth.
Who are some of these gods who are IN HEAVEN, Kerwin?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 10 2012,15:17) ………………….. it goes to show you that there are INDEED (as Paul says) many gods and many lords, both IN HEAVEN, and on earth. Who are some of these gods who are IN HEAVEN, Kerwin?
Mike, they are man made gods. The mind has made them up. That's what it's meaning.Quote (shimmer @ April 09 2012,19:47) Mike, a god is anything which replaces Jehovah God.
Hi Shimmer,Scripturally speaking, there are many gods. They are mentioned all throughout scripture. For example, both Jehovah and Paul call Satan a god.
It refers to any being thought to have power over peoples' lives and affairs – specifically supernatural spirit beings. (It's thought that the Hebrew word “el” refers to “might”, or “one to be revered”.)
But most people today, not knowing how to understand these scriptural mentions of many gods, invent phrases such as “false gods”, or “so-called gods”…………………phrases that are NOT in any scripture.
What we today have to do is to divorce ourselves from the common conception that “god” refers ONLY to The Omniscient Creator of All Things. The word did NOT refer ONLY to Jehovah in the time the scriptures were written, and so to understand “god” so single-mindedly today is to cause confusion within yourself while reading the scriptures.
And sure, you could replace “god” with “false god” in your mind as you're reading the Bible, but then you aren't really getting the true picture. And what happens when you come to a god you don't want to consider as “false” – like Jesus, or the angel Manoah spoke to? Both of these are called “god” in scripture…………..are they “false gods”?
Shimmer, I know this is a sticky subject, because most Christians today consider it taboo to even say “god” if they're not talking about Jehovah. I assure you, this was not the case when the Bible was written. For example, Thomas truly called Jesus his Lord and his God – without ever confusing his God Jesus with the Almighty Creator of the Universe and everything in it.
Thanks for your post, though. It was a good read.
Quote (shimmer @ April 09 2012,20:24) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 10 2012,15:17) ………………….. it goes to show you that there are INDEED (as Paul says) many gods and many lords, both IN HEAVEN, and on earth. Who are some of these gods who are IN HEAVEN, Kerwin?
Mike, they are man made gods. The mind has made them up. That's what it's meaning.
Shimmer,It was Paul himself who said there are indeed MANY gods, both IN HEAVEN and on earth.
Do you believe Satan is a real being, Shimmer?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 10 2012,15:38) Quote (shimmer @ April 09 2012,20:24) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 10 2012,15:17) ………………….. it goes to show you that there are INDEED (as Paul says) many gods and many lords, both IN HEAVEN, and on earth. Who are some of these gods who are IN HEAVEN, Kerwin?
Mike, they are man made gods. The mind has made them up. That's what it's meaning.
Shimmer,It was Paul himself who said there are indeed MANY gods, both IN HEAVEN and on earth.
Do you believe Satan is a real being, Shimmer?
Hi Mike thanks.Yes Satan is the God of this world because people have made all which Satan represents as a god (love of life, love of money, etc).
(Eventually MAN puts Himslef in the temple of God (The temple is the body/the self) and makes – who? Himself, out to be God.
So, yes, Satan is a God – anything can be a God. Man can be a God. But there is only one true God, and that I believe is Jehovah.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 10 2012,08:17) Quote (kerwin @ April 09 2012,20:00) Mike, Had you stopped and considered it was the firstborn that underwent judgement and not Ra and his bunch.
The firstborn would be considered the mighty in a society where they tend to inherit.
Kerwin,I don't subscribe to the idea that firstborn children were what God and Moses referred to as “gods”.
BUT………………….. it goes to show you that there are INDEED (as Paul says) many gods and many lords, both IN HEAVEN, and on earth.
Who are some of these gods who are IN HEAVEN, Kerwin?
Mike,There is as you state “many gods and many lords, both IN HEAVEN, and on earth” but there is only one God who is the source of all things.
I was pointing out that Scripture mentions by name several angels which are called gods by the surrounding people, but many fail to understand it.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 10 2012,09:56) Psalm 82:1
God stands in the assembly of gods; in the midst of the gods he renders judgment.[/color]In the latter scripture, who are these gods that God assembles with and passes judgment upon?
To me it refers to God assembling with angels, as is described in the former scripture I posted. But who do YOU think these gods are/were?
Hi Mike,The answer can be found in Psalm 82:6; they are ALL God's children.
To bad you are having so much trouble understanding your part in this?Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.orgHi Ed,
They are those anointed for human leadership roles.
All the anointed ones are sons of God BY that anointing.
Jn 10.34fBut few would believe they are saved by that sonship.
Quote (toby @ April 10 2012,11:18) Hi EDJ, I would agree that 'Entity' is a good word to use: 'Entity that is Jehovah, God Almighty'. Exodus 4:14-16:
'Then the anger of the LORD was kindled against Moses and he said, “Is there not Aaron, your brother, the Levite? I know that he can speak well; and behold, he is coming out to meet you, and when he sees you he will be glad in his heart.
And you shall speak to him and put the words in his mouth; and I will be with your mouth and with his mouth, and will teach you what you shall do.
He shall speak for you to the people; and he shall be a mouth for you, and you shall be to him as God.'
Hi Toby,MOSES IS NOT 'a god'! …LOOSE THE CONFUSION!
Reading corrupted versions is the reason for confusion,
I suggest you get yourself a real bible: the “AKJV Bible”!Ex 4:16 And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he
shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God.Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (toby @ April 10 2012,11:18) Also, I forgot to mention: Why did God Almighty give Moses his name: “Thus you shall say unto the children of Israel, 'I AM' has sent me to you.”
That is not “a name”?Quote (toby @ April 10 2012,11:18) Quote Hi Toby Once again I disagree.
“I have made thee 'a god' to Pharaoh” (Ex 7:1)
(P.s. I think it should say 'AS God' not 'a God'. Linguistically it would not read right to say '…Make you a God to Pharoah'. It's a small semantic point, though)
Hi Toby,Moses was indeed 'a god' to Pharaoh, BUT ONLY to Pharaoh.
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ April 10 2012,10:38) Quote (toby @ April 10 2012,11:18) Hi EDJ, I would agree that 'Entity' is a good word to use: 'Entity that is Jehovah, God Almighty'. Exodus 4:14-16:
'Then the anger of the LORD was kindled against Moses and he said, “Is there not Aaron, your brother, the Levite? I know that he can speak well; and behold, he is coming out to meet you, and when he sees you he will be glad in his heart.
And you shall speak to him and put the words in his mouth; and I will be with your mouth and with his mouth, and will teach you what you shall do.
He shall speak for you to the people; and he shall be a mouth for you, and you shall be to him as God.'
Hi Toby,MOSES IS NOT 'a god'! …LOOSE THE CONFUSION!
Reading corrupted versions is the reason for confusion,
I suggest you get yourself a real bible: the “AKJV Bible”!Ex 4:16 And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he
shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God.Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.org
Ed,I have run into a few added words and mistranslations in the AKJV.
Hi Mikeboll,
You said,
Quote Quote
But he is referred to as 'A Man'.He is never referred to as being a human being after he ascended. Read the OP of the thread.
So now a man is not a human being?
Well, at least you didn't disagree with the rest of what I said – well done!
(p.s. I think you will find that a Man is of Mankind, a Soul, a Human Being – can you prove otherwise – please show how.)
Quote (Ed J @ April 10 2012,12:48) Hi Kerwin Like what?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed,1 Corinthians 15
King James Version (KJV)47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
There is no “the Lord” in the Greek
Quote (kerwin @ April 09 2012,21:44) Mike, There is as you state “many gods and many lords, both IN HEAVEN, and on earth” but there is only one God who is the source of all things.
Hi Kerwin,And these gods in heaven are not “false” mighty beings, or “so-called” ones to be revered. Instead, they are truly mighty and to be revered by lesser beings such as humans.
But not one of them, although TRULY being gods (as the term was used in Biblical times), is the One who created all things – INCLUDING these other gods.
Today, we would call them “angels”, and fight to the death anyone who dared to call them “gods”. But that is not the way it was then. They were called gods, and no one confused them with THE god, Jehovah.
Quote (toby @ April 10 2012,01:20) Hi Mikeboll, You said,
Quote Quote
But he is referred to as 'A Man'.He is never referred to as being a human being after he ascended. Read the OP of the thread.
So now a man is not a human being?
(p.s. I think you will find that a Man is of Mankind, a Soul, a Human Being – can you prove otherwise – please show how.)
Toby,I know that “man” generally refers to “human being”. What I was telling you was that Jesus is never referred to as a “man/human being” after he ascended to heaven.
Read the OP of the “Is Jesus still a man in heaven” thread. Or just read Gal 1:1 and 1:11.
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