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SF,
Nice conglomeration.
A little repetitive in places but more or less covers the pertinent points.
One thing, at least. You said “Stan can take possession of whom he will” – this is patently untrue and damagingly so!
If this were so then we could all claim INOCCENCE over our actions.
Satan – and his demon angels can ONLY TAKE CONTROL if WE ALLOW Him/Them to – Like AB – see, what I mean?
If we grant them access to our souls, aks them to enter us.The vagueness of your question is still there: When did Satan fall – After the seventh Day – YES, OF COURSE – (Please … I know that seventh day is not literal!)
I have written my say already – but just in short:
WHAT DOES S.F. MEAN BY FALL?
Was it when SIN forst entered him and he did not master it? That is the beginningof the fall.
Another Fall was when he executed that sinful thought.
And the final Fall was when God cast him out of Heaven.Satan was stll in heaven – until – he – was – cast – out and then Jesus saw him fall like a lightening strike down to earth!
And – Woe to the earth for the ruler of the earth has come – Rejoice all ye [in the] heavens…!”
To me, this would have to be after jesus conquered Death – Proved that “A MAN COULD” be righteous before God – Satan now had no further complaints to make before God – no foot hold – no claim to make against the Saint, the elders, the holy One and could no longer sustain a place – his proud claim was completely diminished and he was cast out.JA
You're to fast on the draw, I wasn't finished editing yet.
Let me ask you this first; do you believe that God is testing all mankind, and for what purpose?
Do you believe angels can sin? well, I know we have the answer to that, but the fact that they did, do you think God tested them too?
True, Lucifer was a “super' angel, if you will, and he was put in charge to administer God's way to the others, here on this earth. While doing that, iniquity was found in him, he desired to become the one to be worshiped. How long do you think it took him to convince the other angels to go with him? and did all angels sided with him? no, only a third of them.
That is when he ascended up to, or into, heaven, from this earth; and of course he was knocked back down like lightning.Isa 14:12 ¶ How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
This earth was the ground he fell back down on.
“””(“For he taketh away the FIRST in order to establish the Second”)”””
This is talking about the covenants, Jesus took away the first, OT, to establish the second, NT.Hbr 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
This was the law of the first covenant.
Hbr 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Hbr 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
That is the covenant (second) we are under now.
Georg
Georg……..Why have you not committed on my Post, is the quotes true or not. And where does it say satan was a fallen angle of any kind. The word Lucifer does (NOT) mean SATAN , the word Lucifer means rising star, and Jesus is also considered a Lucifer , the Word SATAN means an adversary and does not imply any particular (BEING) at all. Anyone can be a Satan even Peter and Judas and the Pharisees. Georg dump the WWCG interpretations on this they were wrong about many things brother.
peace and love to you and Irene
Arnold,
you are obvious an earth creature. and think like an earth creature.
Do you really think I think that God does not hear all.
So when Adam and Eve were 'Hiding from God' do you think God didn't know where they were?
And when “God” said to Abraham “I will go down to Sodom and Gomorah and if the violence is as is aid then I WILL KNOW”
And is it not said elsewhere that Angels will take your prayers up to God
– What is it that should be understood from those examples that God does not know all – as it happens – before it happens and after it happens.
This is a metaphorical HEARING or seeing or knowing…Arnold, are you really bandying words woth me?
Arnold, are you really calling me unGodly?
Arnold, are you really calling me a scriptural liar?Nick,
Gene,
Demons are fallen angels.Arnold,
I cannot contend with extreme ignorance.
Please accept my refusal to answer your infant grade questions.
Perhaps when you attain a level if adult understanding, perhaps then we can dispute.Quote (Arnold @ June 03 2010,02:43) JA You're to fast on the draw, I wasn't finished editing yet.
Let me ask you this first; do you believe that God is testing all mankind, and for what purpose?
Do you believe angels can sin? well, I know we have the answer to that, but the fact that they did, do you think God tested them too?
True, Lucifer was a “super' angel, if you will, and he was put in charge to administer God's way to the others, here on this earth. While doing that, iniquity was found in him, he desired to become the one to be worshiped. How long do you think it took him to convince the other angels to go with him? and did all angels sided with him? no, only a third of them.
That is when he ascended up to, or into, heaven, from this earth; and of course he was knocked back down like lightning.Isa 14:12 ¶ How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
This earth was the ground he fell back down on.
“””(“For he taketh away the FIRST in order to establish the Second”)”””
This is talking about the covenants, Jesus took away the first, OT, to establish the second, NT.Hbr 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
This was the law of the first covenant.
Hbr 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Hbr 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
That is the covenant (second) we are under now.
Georg
Georg,I would really appreciate it if you could ADMIT to everyone on this forum that this Lucifer person you speak of does NOT TRULY exist in the bible, but is a nonbiblical doctrine you have accepted.
Isaiah 14 speaks of a man being called a cherub. The MAN is said to have fallen and lost his position. The MAN was said to be the morning star, which in Latin is lucifer. There is NO mention of a super angel with a proper name of Lucifer in the bible. CAN YOU ADMIT THAT Georg?
Once again the scripture says THE MAN was the MORNING STAR (planet venus, a false god), and THE MAN was called a cherub (a guardian).
If you want to distort the text….HALLUCINATE on what is actually there, fine, please just don't call it the truth.
Can you show me WHERE in scripture the Hebrew word for adversary (saw-tawn) becomes the Proper name of one individual? Can you show how the word goes from being a word used to describe God's Faithful angels who are punishing men, to a proper name of some spirit who's against God? CAN YOU EVEN ADMIT that the Hebrew word for adversary IS USED FOR GOD”S FAITHFUL SERVANTS??
Quote (JustAskin @ June 03 2010,06:57) Gene,
Demons are fallen angels.Arnold,
I cannot contend with extreme ignorance.
Please accept my refusal to answer your infant grade questions.
Perhaps when you attain a level if adult understanding, perhaps then we can dispute.
JustAskin,Demon means evil spirit. There are three types of evil spirits. First type is the True supernatural evil spirits of which come from YHWH who alone brings blessing and cursing, peace and calamity. Second are the False supernatural evil spirits, evil spirits of false gods who cannot walk, talk, do any harm or any good. Finally we have the evil spirits that man can cast onto each other through oppression and torture.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2010,08:47) Hi Jodi,
Are these claims able to be shown from scripture ar are you hallucinating?
Yes, they all can be shown from scripture and the examples of the first two I have actually already recently posted.I would happily make a post showing all three.
Will try and get that up soon.
Nick,
I just stated that they are taught in scripture. Why don't you respond accordingly…..say something more like, “I would like to see those scriptures Jodi, I don't believe they exist!”
Jodi,
Jude 1 “These people also, relying on their dreams, defile the flesh, reject authority, and blaspheme the glorious ones. But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.” But these people blaspheme all that they do not understand, and they are destroyed by all that they, like unreasoning animals, understand instinctively. Woe to them!”
We're warned in Jude and also in Peter not to speak about things we know nothing about.
I am laughing so hard just reading all the nonsense here. First we have some who don't even believe in a Satan and think that He is man and not a fallen Angel. Then we have those who believe that Satan fell from Heaven after the sixth day of creation. And then are two who think that Satan fell from Heaven before God created man To say that God created something that was dark and without form and void is unbelievable. Do you really think that God would do something like that…?
?? That would make God an evil being IMO and wrong. Let me give an example/ If I make a cake would I put poison in it? So, why would God create something dark and void. INO He did not. You just do not use your heads when saying that God created such. I go along with Georg and I forgot his name. God is all good and not evil. Question is did He create Evil. If God created all did He do so. So I believe He did not and it was the Angel that sinned and became Satan…along with one third of the Angels that went with Him. Unfortunately this earth is Satan's world and not Gods. We are here to be tested. Will we fall? I hope not….If we love God with all of our Hearts and Soul and mind, do we then think that He would create such a mess. No …… double No…,
Georg already gave Scriptures so I don't have to do so. Peace and Love to all, IreneQuote (JustAskin @ June 03 2010,06:57) Nick, Gene,
Demons are fallen angels.Arnold,
I cannot contend with extreme ignorance.
Please accept my refusal to answer your infant grade questions.
Perhaps when you attain a level if adult understanding, perhaps then we can dispute.
Go behind me Satan…… why would you make remarks like that for, I don;t consider my Husband an Infant or ignorent. He studies 4 hours or more in a row. So when He says something He knows it. So maybe you are wrong, could you be? i believe we all could and are not like Satan who knew it all. Peace to you IreneHi Irene,
Relying on one verse is the way of cults so rather than laughing try finding proofs in the way of supporting verses.[2cor 13.1]Hi SF:
You say about the devil:
Quote Im asking when did the Devil orginaly fall form his orginal position.
He was once a good cheribum who followed Gods will,
When did he fall?What scripture or scriptures support the comment above in particular your statement, “he was once a good cheribum who followed Gods will”.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (JustAskin @ June 03 2010,02:36) SF, Nice conglomeration.
A little repetitive in places but more or less covers the pertinent points.
One thing, at least. You said “Stan can take possession of whom he will” – this is patently untrue and damagingly so!
If this were so then we could all claim INOCCENCE over our actions.
Satan – and his demon angels can ONLY TAKE CONTROL if WE ALLOW Him/Them to – Like AB – see, what I mean?
If we grant them access to our souls, aks them to enter us.The vagueness of your question is still there: When did Satan fall – After the seventh Day – YES, OF COURSE – (Please … I know that seventh day is not literal!)
I have written my say already – but just in short:
WHAT DOES S.F. MEAN BY FALL?
Was it when SIN forst entered him and he did not master it? That is the beginningof the fall.
Another Fall was when he executed that sinful thought.
And the final Fall was when God cast him out of Heaven.Satan was stll in heaven – until – he – was – cast – out and then Jesus saw him fall like a lightening strike down to earth!
And – Woe to the earth for the ruler of the earth has come – Rejoice all ye [in the] heavens…!”
To me, this would have to be after jesus conquered Death – Proved that “A MAN COULD” be righteous before God – Satan now had no further complaints to make before God – no foot hold – no claim to make against the Saint, the elders, the holy One and could no longer sustain a place – his proud claim was completely diminished and he was cast out.
Hi JA,
(im out of town)I didnt mean that Satan can take over anyone he wants.
Im talking about that Satan can take over a person that wills. it was probably a typo.as in a person that wants to, it could happen. like judas.
anyways…
What do you mean the seventh day is not literal?
fall down like lightening? you mean a long time ago?
The devil still has complaints if one who has not accpeted Jesus.Quote (942767 @ June 04 2010,08:07) Hi SF: You say about the devil:
Quote Im asking when did the Devil orginaly fall form his orginal position.
He was once a good cheribum who followed Gods will,
When did he fall?What scripture or scriptures support the comment above in particular your statement, “he was once a good cheribum who followed Gods will”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Ezekial 28.look it up for urself.
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