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Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 01 2010,03:49) Any FALL referred in the bible is a reference to MAN IMO!! There is NO FALL from God's righteous habitation only a fall from an earthly HIGH position.
To ENTER into God's Righteous kingdom, dwelling in His presence a creature must EXIST IN PERFECTION, thus BE INCAPABLE OF SIN.
Angels, or any other creature created by YHWH DO NOT fall from His Kingdom, rather they are PERFECTED by YHWH and EARN an ETERNAL POSITION within that Kingdom, so to believe otherwise IMO is a pure INSULT to YHWH.
God's Kingdom was NOT GOOD enough for angels, why would we think that it would be good enough for us?
YHWH promises NO more SIN in His Kingdom, can we believe this if angels are able to sin there?
Jesus said that in the resurrection man will be made like the angels, NO LONGER ABLE TO DIE ANYMORE. Death is because of sin, those no longer able to die anymore are no longer able to die anymore because they are no longer able to sin anymore, they have been perfected.
The doctrine of fallen angels I find very disturbing.
When people speak of “Satan falling”, I would be interested to hear them clarify on whether or not they believe creatures CAN SIN in God's Righteous Kingdom!!
WHAT HEAVEN are you people referring to that this “Satan” of yours has fallen from?
THIS IS OFF TOPIC!!!
THIS IS THE STUDY OF PERFECTION WHICH IS MY MAJOR AND MY THESIS!!!so if you would like to make a thread, so be it and i would gladly tell you what perfection is.
Quote Any FALL referred in the bible is a reference to MAN IMO!!
This is speculation. show me bible. Your a knife.
So when it mentions God? and his love? thats in referense of man?? realllly!!![/QUOTE]There is NO FALL from God's righteous habitation only a fall from an earthly HIGH position.
Quote
Satan was in Eden, honey. Ez.28. open your bible.To ENTER into God's Righteous kingdom, dwelling in His presence a creature must EXIST IN PERFECTION, thus BE INCAPABLE OF SIN.
Quote
The fact that a Perfect eternal God, particpated in a temporal world, is a limitation. God walked in the garden as well. And the devil was also there. The angels had choices.
do you read hebrew? i do. did you know that Benelohim means the sons of Gods I.E. Angels. duh.Quote
Angels, or any other creature created by YHWH DO NOT fall from His Kingdom, rather they are PERFECTED by YHWH and EARN an ETERNAL POSITION within that Kingdom, so to believe otherwise IMO is a pure INSULT to YHWH.
You have no scripture to back this up. Your speaking from your heart. which is not valid.Quote God's Kingdom was NOT GOOD enough for angels, why would we think that it would be good enough for us? YHWH promises NO more SIN in His Kingdom, can we believe this if angels are able to sin there?
Sin his a choice to choose death rather than God. its that simple, they knew God, and they didnt want him. you have proved my point, thank you.This is the point you have proven, That everyone wants to go to Paradise (heaven), but dont want to see God there.
They rejected God not the kingdom honey. ITs abuot God, not the kingdom. lol. God is the very center our lives.Quote Jesus said that in the resurrection man will be made like the angels, NO LONGER ABLE TO DIE ANYMORE. Death is because of sin, those no longer able to die anymore are no longer able to die anymore because they are no longer able to sin anymore, they have been perfected. The doctrine of fallen angels I find very disturbing.
When people speak of “Satan falling”, I would be interested to hear them clarify on whether or not they believe creatures CAN SIN in God's Righteous Kingdom!!
WHAT HEAVEN are you people referring to that this “Satan” of yours has fallen from?
Than Satan has already grasped your mind. I pray that the Holy Father in Heaven, in Jesus name protects you in every way possible, espeacially from the enemies traps. Sincerlly i love you very much, be safe, and forever stay in God grace.
When he said that we would be like the angels, he was referring to the gender, you didnt even consider context.Overall: dicussing with you is a waste of time, because your points are extra biblical, you dont consider context, you can believe whatever you want to believe, but its not abosolute truth. You come in the Spirit of Good intentions, which means you believe your doing good by forcing your own beliefs in a agressive way, but your not willling to be humble enough to say that you might be wrong.
your mind is already made up, its a waste of time to discuss with you. Your focus should not be, to always be right, but to let God be right, and let him have all the honor and glory. therefore i have concluded that you are closed minded.
Than again i could be wrong, and you can always change.
You tell me.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 01 2010,07:35) Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be . 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
A SERPENT is a creature that lives off of his CARNAL mind. Man when he follows his carnal mind is like that of a SERPENT. We are told that to be carnally minded is death, and that the carnal mind is at enmity against God. Adam and Eve were deceived by their carnal minds, that was the adversary or SATAN that existed in the Garden of Eden. This is the same SATAN that exists today!! Death came because man relied on his own nature and followed his own imagination, instead of trusting the Words of YHWH.
There exists no scripture that speaks of some angel being jealous of God and wanting to go against Him. An angel in God's presence is CONSUMED in TRUTH and FULFILLMENT, not dissatisfaction and stupidity that one could actually succeed in going against Him.
The doctrine of fallen angels is utterly disgraceful IMO!!
James 1:14 But every man is tempted , when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed . 15 Then when lust hath conceived , it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished , bringeth forth death.
To BE CARNALLY MINDED IS DEATH..
Romans 5:12 Wherefore , as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned….17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
The CARNAL MIND IS ENMITY against God
Could scripture be more clear? Jesus followed God's Spirit, denying his carnal mind. The SAW-TAWN that falls is the carnal mind that's been put in it's place!!
Jodi Lee……….Right on Sister, I see it the same way. Men are the Satans (adversaries) as Jesus said, Peter, and Judas , and the Pharisees were. They simply do not get it, they want a Metaphysical Being to represent satan to them. The false teaching of the Whore Church has infect many it appears. If ask has anyone ever seen this elusive Satan Being no one answers they only believe this creature goes around Jumping in and out of People and controlling their lives and is some threat to GOD and His authority. So one would have to ask them who is dong their works in Them Satan or GOD or is it themselves, they simply are not sure it seems. Terraricca doesn't even know who the Prophesy was spoken to , He simply eliminates the One GOD said to send it to and creates another Metaphysical being to replace what scripture say. Don't lose heart Jodi you understand is right> IMOpeace and love to you and yours………………gene
Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 01 2010,04:20) Luke 10:10 But whatever city you enter, and they do not receive you, go out into its streets and say, 11 'The very dust of your city which clings to us we wipe off against you. Nevertheless know this, that the kingdom of God has come near you.' 12 But I say to you that it will be more tolerable in that Day for Sodom than for that city. 13 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. 14 But it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you. 15 And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades. 16 He who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.” 17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.” 18 And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you. The city Capernaum was exalted to heaven, however because of it’s sinful ways and lack of repentance it would be brought low. The seventy were full of joy as they were given power to heal people from demons/evil spirits. The Greek word translated above as demons, is daimonion, which to the Greeks it represented spiritual creatures they referred to as gods or demigods, of which were believed could possess people and inflict them with diseases. YHVH makes it clear that such demons do not exist, they cannot walk or talk, cause harm or any good, for He is the ONLY Spirit that can bring darkness, calamity and cursing. Deuteronomy 28 tells us that YHVH would inflict people and their descendants with all sorts of diseases including diseases of the mind that cause people to act crazy. If a person was sick or mad they were suffering from an evil spirit created by YHVH. The idea of demons being fallen angels is clearly an idea stolen from the widespread and very popular beliefs of the demons the pagans believed in.
We see that “to fall” in scripture represents the loss of power. If something or someone falls like lightening that would of course then represent a rather quick loss of power. Jesus gave the seventy authority to trample serpents and scorpions. The bible shows that such are referred to as being MEN, not fallen angels.
Ezekiel 2:3 And he said unto me, Son of man, I send thee to the children of Israel, to a rebellious nation that hath rebelled against me: they and their fathers have transgressed against me, even unto this very day. 4 For they are impudent children and stiffhearted . I do send thee unto them; and thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD. 5 And they, whether they will hear , or whether they will forbear , (for they are a rebellious house,) yet shall know that there hath been a prophet among them. 6 And thou, son of man, be not afraid of them, neither be afraid of their words, though briers and thorns be with thee, and thou dost dwell among scorpions: be not afraid of their words, nor be dismayed at their looks, though they be a rebellious house.
Luke 20:31 Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers' guilt. 33 Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? 34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
The enemies Jesus calls serpents, vipers and scorpions are MEN. Scripture shows that it is MAN that is said to fall from heaven, or rather his High Position.
YHWH exalts individuals, whole groups of people, and their cities. As He exalts them He also when they grow in pride and sin He casts them down.
Isaiah 2:11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, The haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, And the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day. 12 For the day of the Lord of hosts Shall come upon everything proud and lofty, Upon everything lifted up– And it shall be brought low— 13 Upon all the cedars of Lebanon that are high and lifted up, And upon all the oaks of Bashan; 14 Upon all the high mountains, And upon all the hills that are lifted up; 15 Upon every high tower, And upon every fortified wall; 16 Upon all the ships of Tarshish, And upon all the beautiful sloops. 17 The loftiness of man shall be bowed down, And the haughtiness of men shall be brought low; The Lord alone will be exalted in that day, 18 But the idols He shall utterly abolish.
Psalm 75:6 For exaltation comes neither from the east Nor from the west nor from the south. 7 But God is the Judge: He puts down one, And exalts another.
Ps 5:10 Pronounce them guilty, O God! Let them fall by their own counsels; Cast them out in the multitude of their transgressions, For they have rebelled against You.
Isaiah 10:33 Behold, the Lord, The Lord of hosts, Will lop off the bough with terror; Those of high stature will be hewn down, And the haughty will be humbled. 34 He will cut down the thickets of the forest with iron, And Lebanon will fall by the Mighty One.
Jer 6:15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? No! They were not at all ashamed; Nor did they know how to blush. Therefore they shall fall among those who fall; At the time I punish them, They shall be cast down,” says the Lord.
Jer 50:32 The most proud shall stumble and fall, And no one will raise him up; I will kindle a fire in his cities, And it will devour all around him.”
Ps 36:12 there the workers of iniquity have fallen; They have been cast down and are not able to rise.
Psalms 89:44 You have made his glory cease, And cast his throne down to the ground.
La 2:1 How the Lord has covered the daughter of Zion With a cloud in His anger! He cast down from heaven to the earth The beauty of Israel, And did not remember His footstool In the day of His anger.
Eze 31:16 I made the nations shake at the sound of its fall, when I cast it down to hell together with those who descend into the Pit; and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, were comforted in the depths of the earth.
Eze 32:18 “Son of man, wail over the multitude of Egypt, And cast them down to the depths of the earth, Her and the daughters of the famous nations, With those who go down to the Pit:
Men and their armies and governments are shown clearly to be considered as in heaven and we are told that they can be cast down from that high position.
Need I must add that the Hebrew SAW-TAWN translated as Satan meaning adversary is DIRECTLY used to refer to MAN?
Revelation 12:7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil
and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.One man who deceives is rightfully likened to being a serpent, and as well, many deceitful men together with their governments and armies are rightfully likened to being a beast or dragon.
A SERPENT or BEAST acts upon it’s NATURE, it is a creature lacking the characteristics and thus the Spirit of YHWH. Peter was SATAN for having in mind NOT the things of God, but rather the things of man, and the things of man are products of his imagination which is equivalent to ignorance, foolishness and of course the creation of all sorts of DECEIT!!
The city of Capernaum was said to be exalted to heaven, the ‘heaven’ represents a High Position, it does not represent God’s heavenly abode where ONLY the righteous do dwell. Earth is to be as it IS in heaven, with no more sin and with no more war.
Angels do not sin in God’s heavenly abode and neither do they make war. The Dragon, of which represents kings and their kingdoms from Revelation is like Capernaum a city that falls from it’s High position of power and authority.
The great dragon is of the same mind as the serpent of old, which is the mind of man that follows his own imagination and after his own desires instead of the Holy Spirit.The dragon and the beast are a force of men that all follow the will of man, and not the will of YHWH.
Revelation 20:2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
What is bound for a thousand years? ……Men’s ways are bound, men can no longer follow after their own heart and desires, only those who follow Christ and the will of YHWH will exist. But when the thousand years are over and the second resurrection comes, the adversary will be loosened again because those of the second resurrection have yet to know the way of YHWH they are not raised immortal but in their previous state, having confidence in their flesh.
Your post is a waste of time,
You literally have not studied scripture,
You have not open your mind nor your heart.You believe man is Satan, Than your have screwed up the whole genesis story, and not only that, you have even made God look like he screwed up mans future for Perfection.
Note: This is the very first post that i make, that has no scripture, with much critisim, and a conclusion.
This is how much i see your post as a waste of time, not because of your arguements, because of your intent, mind, and heart. I see your strongly believe in your beliefs, but your not really here to learn.Observation:
You have interpreted scripture from what is not said. you never include context. You add meanings to words. These are not the ways to interpret scripture.Ex: Thousand year claim, clearly satan, yet she says its mans sins.
I pray that God may open your heart, and mind, because obviously you can read, but lack the understanding of holy humility.
Hi Jodi,
Allegorising scripture is a popular way of making it more digestible for carnal minds.
But it is unwiseQuote (Jodi Lee @ June 01 2010,08:03) I think it might be good to first PROVE, through scripture, who this Satan of which you all keep referring to IS! Then DEFINE the “heaven” of which you believe he fell from!
Then tell us WHEN it was he fell and WHY he fell!
Your off topic, make a thread or ill report you.
are we clear?By the way, Man was in Gods presence, yet stupid enough that they also left God.
Anything other than God is stupid.
What do you think the bible has been saying all this time?MAN STOP BEING STUPID LOOKIN INTO THE MOMENT OF SIN, FOR THE LUST OF SIN, THE FOREVER THIRST OF SIN, WHEN WITH GOD ITS ETERNAL PEACE, JOY IN OUR MINDS, A FOREVER SATISCATION OF OUR DESIRES, BECAUSE HE IS LIFE, AND WE WILL NEVER THIRST AGAIN.
You have corrupted conclusions
And i dont want to blame you,I bet someone taught you those things,
IF not than obviously you got bad resources.advice: deny yourself, and let God be right, IF God is who he says he Is, dont pray telling God for him to show us YOUR truth, but instead HIS Truth, because he IS Truth, therefore in the same manner I pray that God shows you HIS perfect Truth, rather than your own observations and conclusions.
Pray by denying yourself, and letting God be God, its what he does best,I love you,
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 31 2010,15:03) Hi ALL, Very quickly im late to work, i usually respond late at night.
Note: i have breifly read most of your responses.Most of you are off topic.
Let me be clear.
The devil fell period. He is evil. Adam knew God, and also fell. Lets not ignore scripture.
Jodi you ignore scriputre alot, if anything you dont make any sense.You are making knife comments, Ask terrarica what that means.
you make points by ignoring scripture.
He fell. because he simply wanted to be more than God.
Here is the problem
Some people like George believes that Satan fell before Adam was created,
Few like myself believe he fell after Adam was created. after the seventh day that God rested.WHEN GENESIS SAYS VOID AND DARKNESS IT MEANS INCOMPLETE, LOOK UP THE HEBREW DONT BE IGNORANT.
When you see a house that is not finish, is it destroyed? is it evil? no of coures not, its simply not finished.but on day 3 God made the FOUNDATIONS of the earth. How can it be that if the earth was void and dark, that the Spirit of God can move on such a thing. If you believe that the earth was destroyed or whatnot, than thats not according to scripture or whatever. the devil did not fall before the seventh day.
I think that people are getting confused abuot what im talkiing about.
Im asking when did the Devil orginaly fall form his orginal position.
He was once a good cheribum who followed Gods will,
When did he fall?If you guys still dont understand than i will respond later….
Does this make sense?
Hi SF,
I absolutely agree with you here on the void earth being the incomplete earth, not the earth after some sort of destruction.I also agree that satan fell sometime after the six days of creation because God declared that everything was 'good.' If satan had fallen before the end of the sixth day then everything wouldn't have been 'good' at all.
Gen 1:31
31 God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
NASUGenesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.God created everything, I don't know God to just do things half way, therefore He created the Galaxy, the Universe, The Earth, Heaven, The Creatures on Earth (Other than Man)
Genesis 1:2
Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.I was confused as to why it said “Now…” but eventually understood what it meant (my spiritual father went over this, it was powerful)
But between verses 1 and 2 was the Fall of Lucifer and the land was full of water, thus Lucifer's Flood, I truly believe that the incomplete form of the Earth is the cause of Lucifer's fall to the earth (The “Meteor” that scientists said destroyed the Earth) and destroyed everything on it, and this is when God needed to replace the Worshipper or the Atmosphere setter He had at one time, now we are the Worshippers.(I went over some other details as to explain why it happened in that order)
I also believe it was before the recreation of Earth because knowing God has no Beggining or End, but within our knowledge of time, the events BEFORE our time probably called for God to have an army, thus the three army of angels under Michael, Gabriel, and Lucifer, what this event was may stay unknown to us until God decides to reveal it to us or when we reach Heaven. XD
So I truly believe that Lucifer came before the 1st day of creation.
(Sorry for lack of knowledge of my dictionary, reading your posts slightly intimidated me to answer. Haha. Thank God for courage.)
To All
I Apologize
I should have given my full observation and analysis from the Beginging but i decided not to, because i wanted to see how people were going to react.Lets study scripture about the Devil.
From Ezekial 28:
2-6 The Son of Man I.E Ezekial was told by God to deliver a message to the literal prince of Tyrus, For God noted that the Prince has claimed himself to be God. God next point is clearly telling him that this prince is just a man, and has only wished in his heart to become God. God noted that this Prince is very wise, but becaues of his riches he has lifted up his heart into believeing he is God. (The Heart is mans belief, the core, the center)
7-11, The prophecy, or consequence that God has told ezekial that would happen to the prince, God will rise up other nations to destroy him, and asks when he is finaly slaughtered if he would still say he is God? He is only man that will be slayed. He will die in the hands of the uncircumsiced. for it is spoken.11Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
(Self Explanatory.)
12Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
(Thus God starts his comparison about Lucifers perfection)
13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
(He was in Eden!!!!! yes still perfect and full of wisdom. he was made of precious stones,IE Perfect Beauty, and his pipes showed his purpose to be in charge of worship which was prepared since he was created.)
14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
(His position in heaven his Cherubim, a anglic being that is literaly in the presence of God. in other words He was with God. still Good)
15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
(He was perect in his ways, Perfect ways, only relates to Gods perfect ways. since he was created until he had Inquity, hidden sin, inner sin, within his very being.)
16By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
(In other words he rebelled, sinned by making his own will. He will be destroyed.)
17Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
(Why he fell, for his heart set on beauty of himself, he corrupted his own wisdom by looking at his own light, which means he become the opposite of wise, in other words stupid. Condition, casted to the ground,
18Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.The same condition that Tyrus will meat as Satan has met.
Isaiah 14:
12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.Lucifer the orginal name of the devil meaning light, has said in his heart, to actualy believe he can be more than God, but will be brought down for judgement of hell.
Satans current position:
The book of Job 1:
Job shows how the Benelohim (hebrew sons of God) came into the presence of God, not that they were orginally there at that time. Angels did not go into the presence of God as they wished, they went when God called them to go.
6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
A Day. meaning not always. a limited time of space. or a fraction of time, they went present themselves to God. Satan also went with them.
7And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
(He is now in the earth,) Notice he is mentiond as Satan, his fallen state. not as light. the very opposite. But his authority is permisable by God. Satan had rights to cause pain, and anguish to people. Satan is not omnipresent, he also has demons that do such things as well. He needs Gods permission to do the evil things he wants to do.Jesus said, he saw him fall like lightening. Lk 10:18
Jesus was tempted by the Devil Mt 4:1 the Devil used the word of God, so this being has its own persona, its not man.Matthew 12:26
And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
Satan in a way has his own terroritory and he doesnt divide himself, WE ARE NOT SATAN, in other words we cannot CAST OUT DEMONS IF WE ARE THE DEMONS!!Satan can take possession of whom is willed to do evil. such as Judas.
John 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly2 Corinthians 11:14
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
To conclude, Satan is a persona, an angel of Light that went crazy, and decided to do his own thing.
He is the idoits of idoits, the father of lies. the counterfeit of good.
in other words, dont be deceived, in the End its over for his tricks and deceits.HERE IS THE POINT OF THE THREAD:
?????WHEN DID THIS ALL HAPPEN????
In other words when did the Devil fall, when did he sin, and disobeyed God? When did he start his evil schemeing.My position,
The devil must have fell after the Seventh Day.
Why? (reasons with scripture)1. Ezekial 28:13 “Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God;”
First note that i did cut scripture, the rest of it is above, dont worry, but notice the collen thats there, which shows that this is a seperate point. First the Devil was IN EDEN. How is this possible if he already fell? He was still perfect according to verse 15 until one day inquity was found.
When was this day? after adam or before?
2. Genes
is 1:
Second, Genesis 1:2 states that God created the light and it was Good. than he divided the darkness. This is day one!!! IT was Good. Than by day 6, everything that was created it mentions 7 times that it was Good. This is Gods testimony here.
:31 “And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.”
Note: VERY GOOD.
3. God rested on the seventh day. think abuot that? let it settle into your mind.
4. Job 38:
4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
(In other words, ALL THE Bene elohim shotued for joy when God was working on the foundations of the earth. All of them. including lucifer.) This happen in Day 3.To conclude, from this we can understand that he fell after the seventh day. He must have fell before cain and abel died, (who we dont know when they were born) Seth was born apx. 130 years later, by than men have already fell. By Facts alone, we know that the devil had to have fell between day 8 and 130years. By context we know that God set enmity (Jesus) to the Devil becaues he tempted Adam and Eve. He did something evil. so therefore he was manifesting a seperate will, a fallen will, against God. An enemy. Therefore its safe to conclude that any time after eve was created and before eve was tempted, the event of the Devils falling from grace, becoming evil, happened any time between that.
Obeservations that one must consider according to Scripture as they respond:
>Satan was in Eden, as a Perfect Being.
>Satan had joy when the foundations of the earth were made in day 3.
>He was a Cherubuim
>God said EVERYTHING WAS GOOD.
>God cannot lie
>God wouldnt have rested if Evil was present
>The earth was not destroyed before the first day
>Darkness related to void meant emptyness, incomplete.Rebuttle to the Second Falling within Jesus Death and Resurection.
Jn 12:31
How did the devil get that position? to be the prince of the world? IE Earth.
Didnt Genesis say that
1:26 “And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.”
Man had dominion, how is it that the Devil ended up with it,
Let me tell you how this happened, by Man sinning and falling into temptation, the Devil gain rights to earth and causing pain to Man.
Matthew 4:3
And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
Thessalonians 3:5
For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.So when scripture states that the Prince of this world will be driven out, it means that Jesus as the Perfect Man, the SECOND ADAM, will have the authority by his death and ressurection to Gain these rights back for his Fathers Glory, and by his name that we may also have dominion again for all these things. Jesus gained back our orginal position as the Perfect Man. We were Sons of God, but we fell, and became enemies, haters, sinners, Jesus the mediator made a way back to God, and become adopted, Sons of God, where we may cry out ABBA Father!
This is my position,
By request i can go further,
why am i posting this up??,
to show you something,
I dont know when the Devil fell, i really dont,
i can get close to it, becaues the bible only eludes to it.
Im posting this so that we may all examine ourselves by simple looking at scripture,A) if you say its a fact that the Devil as fallen before 7th day than its a belief not a fact.
b) if you say after and say by day 8 he must of fell, this is also a belief not a fact.
Im am stating that he fell after, but i dont give a exact date, or a aboslute date of his fallen event. all i know is that he fell sometime after adam was created.
All you know, is that he fell period.
Nothing more or less.do you see what i was trying to do or not?
because the post isnt really about the DevilIts about you,
The real question is,
When did you fall into your own beliefs, or what somone has taught you, Examine yourself,
Let God be God, and he will tell you.
Is what you believe truth, or maybe somewhat your wrong, in the end God has all truth. He is real, if he is Real than he should be real in our lives, than if he is real in our lives than we can get close to him and ask him, God is it me, or is it you.
Deny your self my beloved brothers,
Deny yourself!John 12:25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.Im also in this process,
Deny yourself, pickup your cross and follow Christ,
because nothing matters more than Love,Mark12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
32And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
33And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
34And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
John 15:13
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.With so much love,
Te amo,Your brother Dennison
Quote (Atara_Batel @ June 01 2010,16:47) Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.God created everything, I don't know God to just do things half way, therefore He created the Galaxy, the Universe, The Earth, Heaven, The Creatures on Earth (Other than Man)
Genesis 1:2
Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.I was confused as to why it said “Now…” but eventually understood what it meant (my spiritual father went over this, it was powerful)
But between verses 1 and 2 was the Fall of Lucifer and the land was full of water, thus Lucifer's Flood, I truly believe that the incomplete form of the Earth is the cause of Lucifer's fall to the earth (The “Meteor” that scientists said destroyed the Earth) and destroyed everything on it, and this is when God needed to replace the Worshipper or the Atmosphere setter He had at one time, now we are the Worshippers.(I went over some other details as to explain why it happened in that order)
I also believe it was before the recreation of Earth because knowing God has no Beggining or End, but within our knowledge of time, the events BEFORE our time probably called for God to have an army, thus the three army of angels under Michael, Gabriel, and Lucifer, what this event was may stay unknown to us until God decides to reveal it to us or when we reach Heaven. XD
So I truly believe that Lucifer came before the 1st day of creation.
(Sorry for lack of knowledge of my dictionary, reading your posts slightly intimidated me to answer. Haha. Thank God for courage.)
Atara_Batel
I love you,
Dont feel intmidated! please dont.
I am nothing. all honor and glory goes to God.
You have every right to state what you believe,
but i also have every right do disagree.mainly this is about whats scripture says.
may i point out, what you believe is called the Gap Theory. which includes many things that you have stated.
Your Spiritual Father will probably deny everything i say.my personal advice: ignore me, ignore everyone, forget what your spiritual father has told you, have an open mind, Get your Bible, go into your closet, lock the door, and ASK GOD. He wrote it. I KNOW NOTHING. Truth is your Sp father is a man just like me and you. ask him if he has ever sinned in his life , and there is your answer. He is not God, i am not God, you are not God, so ask God who is God.
I love you very much,
I hope you can understand my words.If you want me to respond to your post,
I will respond to everything you have written and my response to the gap theory. (Revelation 21:1
“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.” we are still in the first earth)IF you want me to.
But first before that is said and down.
I would like you to read my post before this one. (the very long one first)
tell me what you think,
and than ill respond if you wish me too.Go to your closet,
lock yourself in with God and his word.Much love,
Haha. Nice. But I truly do believe it's fact that it was before the 2nd verse for it says:
Genesis 1:2
Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.I don't recall God ever mentioning Himself to be darkness, but to be light, therefore this was Satan roaming on the Earth, Satan had claimed dominion over the Earth, and God created us on the Earth to have dominion over the Earth, or to Take the dominion from Satan.
Besides, to have us created before the Fall of Lucifer would have been pointless to the fact that God had created us to be the worship leaders when He already had a worship leader, Lucifer.
Revelation 2:10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
The devil in the above scripture represents the Roman government that was persecuting Christians for not worshiping the Roman Emperor.
So when did the Roman government with it's idolatry worship of the emperor, fall from heaven?
Quote (Atara_Batel @ June 01 2010,17:23)
Very well than AB,let me start with your last post.
Quote Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
God created everything, I don't know God to just do things half way, therefore He created the Galaxy, the Universe, The Earth, Heaven, The Creatures on Earth (Other than Man)
God always does things step by step, If he created man first without a world to live in than it would be harsh for God to do such a thing becuase man, would be uncomfortable in nothing.
He did this in 7 days. before such a thing there is no such thing as time. God is above time. think about it.Quote Genesis 1:2
Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.I was confused as to why it said “Now…” but eventually understood what it meant (my spiritual father went over this, it was powerful)
But between verses 1 and 2 was the Fall of Lucifer and the land was full of water, thus Lucifer's Flood, I truly believe that the incomplete form of the Earth is the cause of Lucifer's fall to the earth (The “Meteor” that scientists said destroyed the Earth) and destroyed everything on it, and this is when God needed to replace the Worshipper or the Atmosphere setter He had at one time, now we are the Worshippers.
You dont understand how hebrew litertature is written. for example, do you ever wonder why in the first chapter the writer says man and female, they were created, and than in chapter two, God talks about creating adam and eve seperatly?you know why? becaus Hebrews write the big picture first and give details later. ex: God created them male and female. next chapter: And adam was made from…
Now… represents the detail of Gods creation. We were always in Gods mind. thats why you have feet brother. the land was made for your feet. think about it. Show me scripture that says what your saying. you cannot hold this as fact, why? because you have no evidence for this only speculation. that doesnt make it a abosutle truth.
God said everything was good. so your implying God is lying?
God cannot lie. Satan was in eden as a perfect being. did you read my post?Quote I also believe it was before the recreation of Earth because knowing God has no Beggining or End, but within our knowledge of time, the events BEFORE our time probably called for God to have an army, thus the three army of angels under Michael, Gabriel, and Lucifer, what this event was may stay unknown to us until God decides to reveal it to us or when we reach Heaven. XD
So I truly believe that Lucifer came before the 1st day of creation.
Revelation says we are still in the first earth. Just because the scripture says dark doesnt mean evil, evil is a result of choice. Earth was made for us, not the devil. The devil hates us. not bc we replaced him, because we are SONS OF GOD. think about it. open your mind.You can believe this all you want, but its not truth. look at scripture, you know what it says between genesis 1 and 2. NOTHING. you shouldnt hold a truth in your heart based on nothing. I know how it feels because i onced believed that too, but i open my bible, and look what it says there, not according to what THEY told me. be lead by God, not your spiritual father.
Quote Haha. Nice. But I truly do believe it's fact that it was before the 2nd verse for it says: Genesis 1:2
Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.I don't recall God ever mentioning Himself to be darkness, but to be light, therefore this was Satan roaming on the Earth, Satan had claimed dominion over the Earth, and God created us on the Earth to have dominion over the Earth, or to Take the dominion from Satan.
Besides, to have us created before the Fall of Lucifer would have been pointless to the fact that God had created us to be the worship leaders when He already had a worship leader, Lucifer.
Psalms 139.
Do you even know what the word darkness means.
Did you know the meaning of cold is that there is not heat.
Cold does not exist, it means that there is a lack of heat.
you dont measure cold, you measure the amount of heat.
can you measure darkness no, darkness is a term to describe there is a lack of light. you can measure light and its different colors but darkness cannot be measured.evil is the absence of God. IF SATAN IS EVIL THAN GOD IS NOT AROUND.
look at the terms, Form less means without form, empty(void) means not full, incomplete, darkness means? lack of light,guess what God does next after seeing there is a lack of light. HE MAKES LIGHT!!! lol
Answer me this,
How is it that Gods spirit flows in such a place that is “evil”
think abotu Gods spirit was there. remember evil is the absence of God.
Your believeing what Scripture doesnt say,if you hold your points as valid truth,
than i can also say that between verses one and two, that while creating the universe he made mutli universes of worlds, and they all have people and aliens that either serve God or not, and while this all happened, God was like, you know what this is too much work so ill just end it with a big bang and stick to only one.This is what your belief is like.
With much respect
Examine yourself,
Is what you believe because God told you,
Or because SOMEONE told you,IF someone told you, that you are saved than they are a liar, run away from them.
becuase God is the only one who can tell you that you are saved.this is the same point
Much love brother,You can believe what you want,
but its not truth,
look at scripture,Remember I love you,
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 01 2010,17:10) To All
I Apologize
I should have given my full observation and analysis from the Beginging but i decided not to, because i wanted to see how people were going to react.Lets study scripture about the Devil.
From Ezekial 28:
2-6 The Son of Man I.E Ezekial was told by God to deliver a message to the literal prince of Tyrus, For God noted that the Prince has claimed himself to be God. God next point is clearly telling him that this prince is just a man, and has only wished in his heart to become God. God noted that this Prince is very wise, but becaues of his riches he has lifted up his heart into believeing he is God. (The Heart is mans belief, the core, the center)
7-11, The prophecy, or consequence that God has told ezekial that would happen to the prince, God will rise up other nations to destroy him, and asks when he is finaly slaughtered if he would still say he is God? He is only man that will be slayed. He will die in the hands of the uncircumsiced. for it is spoken.11Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
(Self Explanatory.)
12Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
(Thus God starts his comparison about Lucifers perfection)
13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
(He was in Eden!!!!! yes still perfect and full of wisdom. he was made of precious stones,IE Perfect Beauty, and his pipes showed his purpose to be in charge of worship which was prepared since he was created.)
14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
(His position in heaven his Cherubim, a anglic being that is literaly in the presence of God. in other words He was with God. still Good)
15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
(He was perect in his ways, Perfect ways, only relates to Gods perfect ways. since he was created until he had Inquity, hidden sin, inner sin, within his very being.)
16By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
(In other words he rebelled, sinned by making his own will. He will be destroyed.)
17Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
(Why he fell, for his heart set on beauty of himself, he corrupted his own wisdom by looking at his own light, which means he become the opposite of wise, in other words stupid. Condition, casted to the ground,
18Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.The same condition that Tyrus will meat as Satan has met.
Isaiah 14:
12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.Lucifer the orginal name of the devil meaning light, has said in his heart, to actualy believe he can be more than God, but will be brought down for judgement of hell.
Satans current position:
The book of Job 1:
Job shows how the Benelohim (hebrew sons of God) came into the presence of God, not that they were orginally there at that time. Angels did not go into the presence of God as they wished, they went when God called them to go.
6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
A Day. meaning not always. a limited time of space. or a fraction of time, they went present themselves to God. Satan also went with them.
7And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
(He is now in the earth,) Notice he is mentiond as Satan, his fallen state. not as light. the very opposite. But his authority is permisable by God. Satan had rights to cause pain, and anguish to people. Satan is not omnipresent, he also has demons that do such things as well. He needs Gods permission to do the evil things he wants to do.Jesus said, he saw him fall like lightening. Lk 10:18
Jesus was tempted by the Devil Mt 4:1 the Devil used the word of God, so this being has its own persona, its not man.Matthew 12:26
And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
Satan in a way has his own terroritory and he doesnt divide himself, WE ARE NOT SATAN, in other words we cannot CAST OUT DEMONS IF WE ARE THE DEMONS!!Satan can take possession of whom is willed to do evil. such as Judas.
John 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly2 Corinthians 11:14
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
To conclude, Satan is a persona, an angel of Light that went crazy, and decided to do his own thing.
He is the idoits of idoits, the father of lies. the counterfeit of good.
in other words, dont be deceived, in the End its over for his tricks and deceits.HERE IS THE POINT OF THE THREAD:
?????WHEN DID THIS ALL HAPPEN????
In other words when did the Devil fall, when did he sin, and disobeyed God? When did he start his evil schemeing.My position,
The devil must have fell after the Seventh Day.
Why? (reasons with scripture)1. Ezekial 28:13 “Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God;”
First note that i did cut scripture, the rest of it is above, dont worry, but notice the collen thats there, which shows th
at this is a seperate point. First the Devil was IN EDEN. How is this possible if he already fell? He was still perfect according to verse 15 until one day inquity was found.
When was this day? after adam or before?
2. Genesis 1:
Second, Genesis 1:2 states that God created the light and it was Good. than he divided the darkness. This is day one!!! IT was Good. Than by day 6, everything that was created it mentions 7 times that it was Good. This is Gods testimony here.
:31 “And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.”
Note: VERY GOOD.
3. God rested on the seventh day. think abuot that? let it settle into your mind.
4. Job 38:
4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
(In other words, ALL THE Bene elohim shotued for joy when God was working on the foundations of the earth. All of them. including lucifer.) This happen in Day 3.To conclude, from this we can understand that he fell after the seventh day. He must have fell before cain and abel died, (who we dont know when they were born) Seth was born apx. 130 years later, by than men have already fell. By Facts alone, we know that the devil had to have fell between day 8 and 130years. By context we know that God set enmity (Jesus) to the Devil becaues he tempted Adam and Eve. He did something evil. so therefore he was manifesting a seperate will, a fallen will, against God. An enemy. Therefore its safe to conclude that any time after eve was created and before eve was tempted, the event of the Devils falling from grace, becoming evil, happened any time between that.
Obeservations that one must consider according to Scripture as they respond:
>Satan was in Eden, as a Perfect Being.
>Satan had joy when the foundations of the earth were made in day 3.
>He was a Cherubuim
>God said EVERYTHING WAS GOOD.
>God cannot lie
>God wouldnt have rested if Evil was present
>The earth was not destroyed before the first day
>Darkness related to void meant emptyness, incomplete.Rebuttle to the Second Falling within Jesus Death and Resurection.
Jn 12:31
How did the devil get that position? to be the prince of the world? IE Earth.
Didnt Genesis say that
1:26 “And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.”
Man had dominion, how is it that the Devil ended up with it,
Let me tell you how this happened, by Man sinning and falling into temptation, the Devil gain rights to earth and causing pain to Man.
Matthew 4:3
And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
Thessalonians 3:5
For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.So when scripture states that the Prince of this world will be driven out, it means that Jesus as the Perfect Man, the SECOND ADAM, will have the authority by his death and ressurection to Gain these rights back for his Fathers Glory, and by his name that we may also have dominion again for all these things. Jesus gained back our orginal position as the Perfect Man. We were Sons of God, but we fell, and became enemies, haters, sinners, Jesus the mediator made a way back to God, and become adopted, Sons of God, where we may cry out ABBA Father!
This is my position,
By request i can go further,
why am i posting this up??,
to show you something,
I dont know when the Devil fell, i really dont,
i can get close to it, becaues the bible only eludes to it.
Im posting this so that we may all examine ourselves by simple looking at scripture,A) if you say its a fact that the Devil as fallen before 7th day than its a belief not a fact.
b) if you say after and say by day 8 he must of fell, this is also a belief not a fact.
Im am stating that he fell after, but i dont give a exact date, or a aboslute date of his fallen event. all i know is that he fell sometime after adam was created.
All you know, is that he fell period.
Nothing more or less.do you see what i was trying to do or not?
because the post isnt really about the DevilIts about you,
The real question is,
When did you fall into your own beliefs, or what somone has taught you, Examine yourself,
Let God be God, and he will tell you.
Is what you believe truth, or maybe somewhat your wrong, in the end God has all truth. He is real, if he is Real than he should be real in our lives, than if he is real in our lives than we can get close to him and ask him, God is it me, or is it you.
Deny your self my beloved brothers,
Deny yourself!John 12:25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.Im also in this process,
Deny yourself, pickup your cross and follow Christ,
because nothing matters more than Love,Mark12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
32And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
33And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
34And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
John 15:13
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.With so much love,
Te amo,Your brother Dennison
Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14 we are told DIRECTLY are speaking of MEN, adding to scripture saying that they mean otherwise is teaching your OWN ideas and your OWN ideas DO NOT EQUAL TRUTH!!The King was likened to being the morning star, the planet Venus, who was considered a god to the pagan world. The Planet Venus was known in Latin as Lucifer. The word Lucifer does not belong in the English bible it is Latin.
The KING FELL from his high position!!
The adversary in the book of Job is a faithful servant of God who is doing his job, which is roaming to and fro on the earth watching man, seeing who is in need of instruction and refinement!! The adversary in Job is shown by the end of the book to have been right, that is exactly why God inflicted Job, for Job did in fact have a hedge around him, he was totally ignorant of God. Every person in the book of Job attributes Job's infliction as coming FROM YHWH. The adversary OBEYS God PRECISELY as he is told!! The story is told from the perspective of an Israelite who called God's messengers that brought cursing saw-tawns, which is the Hebrew phonetic spelling for the English word that means adversary. When the Israelites corrupted their ways and heeded after pagan ideas, they attributed cursing to the d
emons of false gods, of whom God warned against. Why did God warn against these demons?…because they were WORTHLESS, they could not walk, talk, they could not do any harm nor any good. YHWH ALONE brings forth blessing and cursing, life and death. He ALONE brings forth darkness and calamity, there is NO OTHER!!The adversary in the book of Job is NOT said to be against God's will, nor is he said to be jealous of God. Nor is this adversary shown to be a slander to God or man, on the contrary, as said, this adversary is shown to FULLY OBEY YHWH as well as be COMPLETELY CORRECT in his assessment of Job!!
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