When did the church get hijacked?

[Catholic Apologist]

So most of you seem to believe that the gates of hell prevailed against the Church. (You believe the Church got hijacked by the devil)

So I'd like to hear specifically:

1. When did this take place? When did the Church cease to be pure. (unless you believe the apostles were corrupt too?)

2. What church fathers held to the true faith 100%?

Give proof for your beliefs.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (CatholicApologist @ Aug. 26 2009,13:04)

So most of you seem to believe that the gates of hell prevailed against the Church.  (You believe the Church got hijacked by the devil) So I'd like to hear specifically: 1. When did this take place?  When did the Church cease to be pure.  (unless you believe the apostles were corrupt too?)   2. What church fathers held to the true faith 100%? Give proof for your beliefs.

The church ceased to be pure since Paul instituted the office of Bishop. Peter is not the start of The Catholic Church at all it is Paul he is truly the first Pope.

The gates of hell did not prevail against the true Church because the true Chuch is still alive and healthy but keep in mind the true Church is scattered for the Catholic Church has in the past hunted and killed true believers and deprived them of the liberty found in Christ.

The CC is the Heresy itself. It is not founded in Judaism it is founded in Paganism and salvation comes by way of the Jew.

[david]

Quote

So most of you seem to believe that the gates of hell prevailed against the Church.  (You believe the Church got hijacked by the devil) So I'd like to hear specifically: 1. When did this take place?  When did the Church cease to be pure.  (unless you believe the apostles were corrupt too?)

Historian Will Durant points out:

“Celsus [second-century opponent of Christianity] himself had sarcastically observed that Christians were ‘split up into ever so many factions, each individual desiring to have his own party.’ About 187 [C.E.] Irenaeus listed twenty varieties of Christianity; about 384 [C.E.] Epiphanius counted eighty.”—The Story of Civilization: Part III—Caesar and Christ.)

MATTHEW 13:24-30 (c. 41 C.E.)
“The kingdom of the heavens has become like a man that sowed fine seed in his field. While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat, and left. When the blade sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds appeared also. So the slaves of the householder came up and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it come to have weeds?’ He said to them, ‘An enemy, a man, did this.’ They said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them?’ He said, ‘No; that by no chance, while collecting the weeds, YOU uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the harvest season I will tell the reapers, First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up, then go to gathering the wheat into my storehouse.’””
MATTHEW 13:36-39
“Then after dismissing the crowds he went into the house. And his disciples came to him and said: “Explain to us the illustration of the weeds in the field.” In response he said: “The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man; the field is the world; as for the fine seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one, and the enemy that sowed them is the Devil. The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels.”

Here are some rough DATES on how Jesus prophecy progressed:

MATTHEW 7:15-16 (c. 41 C.E.)
““Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they?”
(These words were put down by Matthew around 41 C.E, but spoken by Jesus several years earlier.  

MATTHEW 24:11 (c. 41 C.E.)
“And many false prophets will arise and mislead many;”
(After saying that no stone would be left of the temple in Jerusalem, Jesus’ disciples asked him: “When will these things be.”  The question also involved them asking for a sign of his presence and the conclusion of the system of things.  Jesus gave them a multi-fulfillment sign that included what would occur before the conclusion of Jerusalem’s end.  We see that many false prophets would arise and “mislead many.”)

I GUESS HERE IS WHERE THINGS ACTUALLY BEGIN TO GO DOWNHILL:

ACTS 15:24  (c. 50 C.E.)
“we have heard that some from among us have caused you trouble with speeches, trying to subvert your souls, although we [the governing body] did not give them any instructions,”
(Remarkably, as early as around 50 C.E., there were “some from among” the Christian congregation who were speaking falsely, and “trying to subvert [their] souls.”)

GALATIANS 1:6-7 (c. 50-52 C.E.)
“I marvel that you are being so quickly removed from the One who called you with Christ’s undeserved kindness over to another sort of good news. But it is not another; only there are certain ones who are causing you trouble and wanting to pervert the good news about the Christ.”
(“Certain ones” were “wanting to pervert the good news” and Paul was amazed or marveled at how “quickly” this was happening, already back around 50-52 C.E.!)

GALATIANS 2:3-4 (c. 50-52 C.E.)
“Nevertheless, not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, although he was a Greek. But because of the false brothers brought in quietly, who sneaked in to spy upon our freedom which we have in union with Christ Jesus, that they might completely enslave us—”
(Again, mention of “false brothers” that were brought into the congregation, “quietly.”)

2 THESSALONIANS 2:3,7,9 (c.51 C.E.)
“Let no one seduce you in any manner, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. . . .True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work; but only till he who is right now acting as a restraint gets to be out of the way. . . .But the lawless one’s presence is according to the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and portents”
(This man of lawlessness was a mystery at the time, but it would only be a mystery until “he who is right now acting as a restraint [the apostles] gets to be out of the way.”   When that happened, it would no longer be a mystery or obscure, because it would break forth in full bloom and spread like “gangrene” as another verse puts it.  Verse 8 tells us that the lawless one will be done away with and brought to nothing by the manifestation of Jesus’ presence.  So the man of lawlessness would exist right up until Christ’s presence.  It was “already at work” or beginning to manifest itself at this time.)

2 CORINTHIANS 11:3 (c. 55 C.E.)
“I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent seduced Eve by its cunning, your minds [of those Christians in Corinth] might be corrupted away from the sincerity and the chastity that are due the Christ.”

2 CORINTHIANS 11:26 (c. 55 C.E.)
“. . . .in dangers among false brothers. . . .”
(False brothers certainly already existed at this time and they were dangerous.)

ROMANS 16:17-18 (c. 56 C.E.)
“Now I exhort you, brothers, to keep your eye on those who cause divisions and occasions for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them. For men of that sort are slaves, not of our Lord Christ, but of their own bellies; and by smooth talk and complimentary speech they seduce the hearts of guileless ones.” (See 1 Cor 1:10)

ACTS 20:27-30 (c. 56.C.E.)
“for I have not held back from telling you all the counsel of God. Pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed you overseers, to shepherd the congregation of God, which he purchased with the blood of his own [Son]. I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among you and will not treat the flock with tenderness, and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.”
(Notice that he was speaking to the “overseers” (Bishops), the ones who had been appointed “to shepharerd the congregation of God.”  It was from among these ones themselves that men would rise and speak twisted things “to draw away the disciples after themselves.”) (See Acts 15:24; 2 Pet. 2:1)

COLOSSIANS 2:8 (c. 60-61 C.E.)
“Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry you off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ;”
(Although this scripture is not speaking of an apostasy or rebellion from within, it does speak of the subtle influence of philosophy and Greek philosophy was a key factor in the apostasy that followed the death of the apostles. The Greek immortal soul teaching implied a need for various de
stinations for the soul—heaven, hellfire, purgatory, paradise, Limbo. By manipulating such teachings, it became easy for a priestly class to keep their flocks submissive and in fear of the Hereafter and to extract gifts and donations from them.)

1 TIMOTHY 6:20-21 (c. 61-64 C.E.)
“O Timothy, guard what is laid up in trust with you, turning away from the empty speeches that violate what is holy and from the contradictions of the falsely called “knowledge.” For making a show of such [knowledge] some have deviated from the faith.”

1 TIMOTHY 4:1-3 (c. 61-64 C.E.)
“However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons, by the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, marked in their conscience as with a branding iron; forbidding to marry, commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who have faith and accurately know the truth.”
(See 1 tim 3:2; 1 Cor 9:5; “Cephas” is an Aramaic name given to Peter; see John 1:42.  See also Mark 1:29-31, where reference is made to the mother-in-law of Simon, or Peter.)

CA, does this “forbidding to marry” (yes, I know, it's their choice) and “abstaining from” certain foods sound familiar?

1 TIMOTHY 1:3-7 (c. 61-64 C.E.)
“Just as I encouraged you to stay in Eph́e·sus when I was about to go my way into Mac·e·dóni·a, so I do now, that you might command certain ones not to teach different doctrine, nor to pay attention to false stories. . .. Really the objective of this mandate is love out of a clean heart and out of a good conscience and out of faith without hypocrisy. By deviating from these things certain ones have been turned aside into idle talk, wanting to be teachers of law, but not perceiving either the things they are saying or the things about which they are making strong assertions.”
(So, around 61-64 C.E., “false stories” did exist and were being taught.  Some in the Christian congregation were “teach[ing] different doctrine” as early as 61 C.E.  More than that, ones were “making strong assertions” that were wrong and “wanting to be teachers.”  As well, they had “deviated” from certain Christian principles.)

TITUS 1:5,10,11,13-16 (c. 61-64 C.E.)
“For this reason I left you in Crete, that you might correct the things that were defective and might make appointments of older men in city after city, as I gave you orders. . . .For there are many unruly men, profitless talkers, and deceivers of the mind, especially those men who adhere to the circumcision.  It is necessary to shut the mouths of these, as these very men keep on subverting entire households by teaching things they ought not for the sake of dishonest gain. . . . For this very cause keep on reproving them with severity, that they may be healthy in the faith, paying no attention to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn themselves away from the truth. . . . They publicly declare they know God, but they disown him by their works, because they are detestable and disobedient and not approved for good work of any sort.” (See Mat. 15:19)

2 PETER 3:13,15-17 (c. 64 C.E.)
“But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell. . . . Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul according to the wisdom given him also wrote you, Paul according to the wisdom given him also wrote you, speaking about these things as he does also in all [his] letters. In them, however, are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unsteady are twisting, as [they do] also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. You, therefore, beloved ones, having this advance knowledge, be on your guard that you may not be led away with them by the error of the law-defying people and fall from your own steadfastness.” (See 2 Tim 4:3,4–“they will accumulate teachers for themsleves to have their ears tickled; and they will turn their ears away from the truth.”)

2 PETER 2:1-3 (c. 64 C.E.)
“However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among you. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects . . . .Furthermore, many will follow their acts of loose conduct, and on account of these the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively. Also, with covetousness they will exploit you with counterfeit words.”
(See 2 Tim. 2:16-18–“their word will spread like gangrene.”  Romans 16:17–“keep your eye on those who cause divisions.”  1 Cor 1:10–“there should not be divisions among you.”)
(Peter’s words proved ture.  Sects, or divisions were already evident as historian Will Durant points out:
“Celsus [second-century opponent of Christianity] himself had sarcastically observed that Christians were ‘split up into ever so many factions, each individual desiring to have his own party.’ About 187 [C.E.] Irenaeus listed twenty varieties of Christianity; about 384 [C.E.] Epiphanius counted eighty.”—The Story of Civilization: Part III—Caesar and Christ.)

2 TIMOTHY 4:3-4 (c. 65 C.E.)
“For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching, but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, whereas they will be turned aside to false stories.”

HERE IS WHERE YOU CAN START TO FEEEEEL THE DESPARATION:

JUDE 3-4,10 (c. 65. C.E.)
“Beloved ones, though I was making every effort to write you about the salvation we hold in common, I found it necessary to write you to exhort you to put up a hard fight for the faith that was once for all time delivered to the holy ones. My reason is that certain men have slipped in . . .ungodly men, turning the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for loose conduct and proving false to our only Owner and Lord, Jesus Christ. . . .Yet these [men] are speaking abusively of all the things they really do not know.”
(You can feel Jude’s sadness.  He truly wanted, no, was making “every effort” to speak of good things.  But he “found it necessary” to exhort them to “put up a hard fight for the faith.”  His “reason” for this was the “ungodly men” who had “slipped in” to the congregation.  These men not only had left behind good Christian conduct, but they were speaking “of all the things they really [did] not know.”)

2 TIMOTHY 2:16-18 (c. 65 C.E.)
“But shun empty speeches that violate what is holy; for they will advance to more and more ungodliness, and their word will spread like gangrene. Hy·me·naéus and Phi·létus are of that number. These very [men] have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred; and they are subverting the faith of some.” (See 1 Tim. 1:19,20; 2 Tim 3:13)
(Would this apostasy happen slowly?  Is gangrene slow?  Quite the opposite.  And already there were some who were “subverting the faith” of others, teaching false doctrine, in this case “that the resurrection [had] already occurred.”  Would things turn around?  Paul wrote to Timothy: “They will advance to more and more ungodliness, and their word will spread like gangrene.”)

1 JOHN 2:18-19 (c. 98. C.E.)
“Young children, it is the last hour, and, just as you have heard that antichrist is coming, even now there have come to be many antichrists; from which fact we gain the knowledge that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But [they went out] that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort
.”

1 JOHN 4:3 (c. 98 C.E.)
“but every inspired expression that does not confess Jesus does not originate with God. Furthermore, this is the antichrist’s [inspired expression] which YOU have heard was coming, and now it is already in the world.”

2 JOHN 7 (c. 98 C.E.)
“For many deceivers have gone forth into the world, persons not confessing Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.”
(Another false teaching, from the foretold false teachers.  By this time “many deceivers” were already in “the world.”)
Even today, people often say “in the flesh.”  It means “in person, present.”
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/in+the+flesh

[david]

Quote

2. What church fathers held to the true faith 100%?

But, both Isaiah’s and Micah’s prophecies foretell such a re-gathering of true worshipers “in the final part of the days.” Isaiah says:

“It must occur in the final part of the days that the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will certainly be lifted up above the hills; and to it all the nations must stream. And many peoples will certainly go and say: ‘Come, you people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths.’”—Isaiah 2:2, 3; Micah 4:1-3.

[david]

Quote

(You believe the Church got hijacked by the devil)

How do you understand:

MATTHEW 13:24-30 (c. 41 C.E.)
“The kingdom of the heavens has become like a man that sowed fine seed in his field. While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat, and left. When the blade sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds appeared also. So the slaves of the householder came up and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it come to have weeds?’ He said to them, ‘An enemy, a man, did this.’ They said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them?’ He said, ‘No; that by no chance, while collecting the weeds, YOU uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the harvest season I will tell the reapers, First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up, then go to gathering the wheat into my storehouse.’””
MATTHEW 13:36-39
“Then after dismissing the crowds he went into the house. And his disciples came to him and said: “Explain to us the illustration of the weeds in the field.” In response he said: “The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man; the field is the world; as for the fine seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one, and the enemy that sowed them is the Devil. The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels.”

[Proclaimer]

Contantine certainly contributed to the great falling away, but the hearts of many believers must have been in a condition to allow him to rule over the church.

It is written that there will be a great falling away, then the antichrist, before the next coming of Christ and Paul said that when he departed that many would come and draw away men to themselves. This we have seen.

The gates of hell haven't prevailed against the Church and never will, but many believers are caught up in Babylon the mother of harlots.
The whole world is drunk on her wine.

[NickHassan]

Hi CA,
When worldly presumptions and logic prevailed over the truth of scripture they lost fellowship with the Father and the Son[2Jn9]

[eveh]

The Church was invaded from the beginning with those who refused to give up the law. They tried to combine both together but God clearly tells you if you try to keep one, even one law, you must keep them all for you will be judged by the law. So, as we know there is no salvation under the law, what it is telling you is you are a sinner and will remain one as long as you try to keep the law.
It is still being hijacked today by the same people who say you must keep the Sabbath, or they observe Holy Days, they don't eat meat on certain days, some don't even eat meat at all, these things are not of Grace. They light candles, they burn incense, they pray for the dead, these things are not of God's Grace. Pray for the living not the dead. Come out of those dead churches.

[NickHassan]

Hi CA,
It was hijacked when the Spirit was quenched and not sought by believers though promised in Acts 2.39.
Jesus was not allowed to rule and men took control

[theodorej]

Quote (CatholicApologist @ Aug. 26 2009,13:04)

So most of you seem to believe that the gates of hell prevailed against the Church.  (You believe the Church got hijacked by the devil) So I'd like to hear specifically: 1. When did this take place?  When did the Church cease to be pure.  (unless you believe the apostles were corrupt too?)   2. What church fathers held to the true faith 100%? Give proof for your beliefs.

Greetings CA….. The true church of God which was started and presided over by Jesus and attended by the apostles which kept the toracal statutes( Torah/Law)was hijacked at Nicea and fostered by Constantine emperor of Rome….The Universal Church was the result of that council and from that came the Roman Catholic Church…..And from the RC church comes our modern day protestantism…

[theodorej]

Greetings CA…..In addition the gates of hell did not prevail against The Church of God….To find Gods' true church you have to have a contrite heart and a sincere yearning for truth coupled with a hunger for the word of God…I have been searching for this tiny flock and learning all along the way…Iam convinced that if God sees fit I will find it…I started my search with those churches who go by his name, that being, The Church of God….In addition you have to seperate those that keep the Sabbath and Holy Days according to Lev:23 from those that worship on sunday….Gods church is very much alive and waiting for its lord and master…

[dirtyknections]

When the holy spirit guides you to understand this scripture:

Hebrews 13:11-14 (New Living Translation)

11 Under the old system, the high priest brought the blood of animals into the Holy Place as a sacrifice for sin, and the bodies of the animals were burned outside the camp. 12 So also Jesus suffered and died outside the city gates to make his people holy by means of his own blood. 13 So let us go out to him, outside the camp, and bear the disgrace he bore. 14 For this world is not our permanent home; we are looking forward to a home yet to come.

You will understand why your belief about the Catholic Church is futile..and wont save you (or condemn you for that matter)

[GeneBalthrop]

DK…………it's good to see you back brother.

peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene

[Author]

Posts