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Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 03 2010,11:27) Quote (banana @ Jan. 03 2010,10:56) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 02 2010,05:32) Quote (banana @ Jan. 01 2010,20:59) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 01 2010,10:45) I know of nowhere in scripture that tells when Satan fell from heaven. The first place that idea appears in Scripture is when Jesus states Satan fall like lighting from heaven. It seems reasonable to me to conclude that his fall took place before he used the serpent to test Eve in the Garden of Eden. Never the less we have an account of him approaching God on his throne in the book of Job. Can anyone aid me in solving this mystery?
What Mystery Satan did fall from heaven like lightening. Don't you believe what Scripture says about that in Luke?
My previews post shows you.
Irene
I am looking to find the time line of when he fell from heaven not if he fell from heaven.
It had to be before God created man, because He was already in Paradise to deceive Eve. I don't think that the exact date is known. For Jodi! To say that Satan is only in mans mind is not correct. And as far as other Angels are concerned they did leave their first estate and are in darkness.(chained)
Jude 1:6
And the Angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own habitation, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgement of the great day.
Irene
The messengers that left their first estate, were the prophets in the OT who LEFT YHVH and followed after their OWN prophecies. These false messengers wait for the judgment.
Jodi It says that they were Angels and not Prophets. Angels have never been known to be Prophets.
Read Jude again……Not sure if this is relevent to this thread:-
Isaiah 54:16
Behold! I,I created the artificer who blows into the fire of coal,
And brings forth an implement for his occupation.
And I,I created the ruiner to harm.God created satan.
Blessings.
Another interesting scripture:-
Isaiah 45:6-7
I am Ieue Alueim, and there is none else.
Former of light and Creator of darkness,
Maker of good and Creator of evil.
I, Ieue Alueim, made all of these things.Who would believe God did all this?
Blessings.
hi CO
though you do not acknowledge me.
Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is no other;
apart from me there is no God.
I will strengthen you,
though you have not acknowledged me,
Isa 45:6 so that from the rising of the sun
to the place of its setting
men may know there is none besides me.
I am the LORD, and there is no other.
Isa 45:7 I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the LORD, do all these things.Isa 45:8 “You heavens above, rain down righteousness;
let the clouds shower it down.
Let the earth open wide,
let salvation spring up,
let righteousness grow with it;
I, the LORD, have created it.Isa 45:9 “Woe to him who quarrels with his Maker,
this is all ,it is now better understand wen you read it from the bible it self.
hi CO
Isa 54:14 In righteousness you will be established:
Tyranny will be far from you;
you will have nothing to fear.
Terror will be far removed;
it will not come near you.
Isa 54:15 If anyone does attack you, it will not be my doing;
whoever attacks you will surrender to you.Isa 54:16 “See, it is I who created the blacksmith
who fans the coals into flame
and forges a weapon fit for its work.
And it is I who have created the destroyer to work havoc;
Isa 54:17 no weapon forged against you will prevail,
and you will refute every tongue that accuses you.
This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD,
and this is their vindication from me,”
declares the LORD.Quote (banana @ Jan. 03 2010,16:19) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 03 2010,11:27) Quote (banana @ Jan. 03 2010,10:56) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 02 2010,05:32) Quote (banana @ Jan. 01 2010,20:59) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 01 2010,10:45) I know of nowhere in scripture that tells when Satan fell from heaven. The first place that idea appears in Scripture is when Jesus states Satan fall like lighting from heaven. It seems reasonable to me to conclude that his fall took place before he used the serpent to test Eve in the Garden of Eden. Never the less we have an account of him approaching God on his throne in the book of Job. Can anyone aid me in solving this mystery?
What Mystery Satan did fall from heaven like lightening. Don't you believe what Scripture says about that in Luke?
My previews post shows you.
Irene
I am looking to find the time line of when he fell from heaven not if he fell from heaven.
It had to be before God created man, because He was already in Paradise to deceive Eve. I don't think that the exact date is known. For Jodi! To say that Satan is only in mans mind is not correct. And as far as other Angels are concerned they did leave their first estate and are in darkness.(chained)
Jude 1:6
And the Angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own habitation, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgement of the great day.
Irene
The messengers that left their first estate, were the prophets in the OT who LEFT YHVH and followed after their OWN prophecies. These false messengers wait for the judgment.
Jodi It says that they were Angels and not Prophets. Angels have never been known to be Prophets.
Read Jude again……
Hello Irene,The word angel means messenger and does not solely represent God's messengers from heaven, but it also in fact can and does represent human messengers.
The entire chapter is talking about sinful men betraying YHVH for their own gain.
We CAN see quite clearly that these messengers are the prophets spoken about in Jeremiah 23.
Jeremiah 23:9 My heart within me is broken Because of the prophets; All my bones shake. I am like a drunken man, And like a man whom wine has overcome, Because of the Lord, And because of His holy words. 10 For the land is full of adulterers; For because of a curse the land mourns. The pleasant places of the wilderness are dried up. Their course of life is evil, And their might is not right. 11 “For both prophet and priest are profane; Yes, in My house I have found their wickedness,” says the Lord. 12 “Therefore their way shall be to them Like slippery ways; In the darkness they shall be driven on And fall in them; For I will bring disaster on them, The year of their punishment,” says the Lord. 13 “And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria: They prophesied by Baal And caused My people Israel to err. 14 Also I have seen a horrible thing in the prophets of Jerusalem: They commit adultery and walk in lies; They also strengthen the hands of evildoers, So that no one turns back from his wickedness. All of them are like Sodom to Me, And her inhabitants like Gomorrah. 15 “Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts concerning the prophets: 'Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, And make them drink the water of gall; For from the prophets of Jerusalem Profaneness has gone out into all the land.' ” 16 Thus says the Lord of hosts: “Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you. They make you worthless; They speak a vision of their own heart, Not from the mouth of the Lord.
Jude 1:4 for there did come in unobserved certain men, long ago having been written beforehand to this judgment, impious, the grace of our God perverting to lasciviousness, and our only Master, God, and Lord — Jesus Christ — denying, 5 and to remind you I intend, you knowing once this, that the Lord, a people out of the land of Egypt having saved, again those who did not believe did destroy; 6 messengers also, those who did not keep their own principality, but did leave their proper dwelling, to a judgment of a great day, in bonds everlasting, under darkness He hath kept, 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, having given themselves to whoredom, and gone after other flesh, have been set before — an example, of fire age-during, justice suffering.
I have DIRECT scriptures to back up what I declare is the truth.
Hi Irene,
Matthew 11:9 “But what did you go out to see ? A prophet ? Yes, I tell you, and one who is more than a prophet. 10 “This is the one about whom it is written, 'BEHOLD, I SEND MY MESSENGER AHEAD OF YOU, WHO WILL PREPARE YOUR WAY BEFORE YOU.'
Here we see John is called a prophet, and he is called MORE then a prophet but also a messenger (Greek Aggelos).
God chose to teach me from 1 John 3 early this morning and in my lessons I learned some information that seems to apply to this conversation.
In verses 4-6 we are told that no one who sins continues to live in God. Since this is true then it is obvious that Satan fell from heaven as soon as he sinned.
In verses 7-10 we learn that the Devil, translated from “diabolos” which means “slanderer”, has been sinning from the beginning. We also know those who sin are doing the Devil's work. The last poin
89t is that Jesus came to destroy the Devil's work.We know that when Eve sinned she chose to do the Devil's work. Her action is the first time in scripture we have of a human doing the devil's work. Since it is called the Devil's work I am going to conclude his sin and thus his fall came before Eve's.
hi Jodi
so what Peter is saying are lies;
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;2Pe 2:9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
2Pe 2:10 This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority.
Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
2Pe 2:11 yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the LordNo of course Peter is not lying.
Peter is speaking about men from the Old Testament, he is NOT speaking about non human messengers.
Micah 3:4 Then shall they cry unto the LORD, but he will not hear them: he will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves ill in their doings. 5 Thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that make my people err , that bite with their teeth, and cry , Peace; and he that putteth not into their mouths, they even prepare war against him. 6 Therefore night shall be unto you, that ye shall not have a vision; and it shall be dark unto you, that ye shall not divine ; and the sun shall go down over the prophets, and the day shall be dark over them. 7 Then shall the seers be ashamed , and the diviners confounded : yea, they shall all cover their lips; for there is no answer of God. 8 But truly I am full of power by the spirit of the LORD, and of judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin. 9 Hear this, I pray you, ye heads of the house of Jacob, and princes of the house of Israel, that abhor judgment, and pervert all equity. 10 They build up Zion with blood, and Jerusalem with iniquity. 11 The heads thereof judge for reward, and the priests thereof teach for hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money: yet will they lean upon the LORD, and say , Is not the LORD among us? none evil can come upon us. 12 Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest.
2 Peter 2:1 And there did come also false prophets among the people, as also among you there shall be false teachers, who shall bring in besides destructive sects, and the Master who bought them denying, bringing to themselves quick destruction, 2 and many shall follow out their destructive ways, because of whom the way of the truth shall be evil spoken of, 3 and in covetousness, with moulded words, of you they shall make merchandise, whose judgment of old is not idle, and their destruction doth not slumber. 4 For if God messengers who sinned did not spare, but with chains of thick gloom, having cast [them] down to Tartarus, did deliver [them] to judgment, having been reserved, 5 and the old world did not spare, but the eighth person, Noah, of righteousness a preacher, did keep, a flood on the world of the impious having brought, 6 and the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah having turned to ashes, with an overthrow did condemn, an example to those about to be impious having set [them]; 7 and righteous Lot, worn down by the conduct in lasciviousness of the impious, He did rescue, 8 for in seeing and hearing, the righteous man, dwelling among them, day by day the righteous soul with unlawful works was harassing. 9 The Lord hath known to rescue pious ones out of temptation, and unrighteous ones to a day of judgment, being punished, to keep,
The point of the chapter is a warning so that HUMANS may know that righteous MEN are delivered from temptation and evil MEN (particularly false messengers) are reserved for a day of judgment. There is nothing in this chapter that is speaking of angels falling from YHVH's righteous abode… sinning and being kicked out from His Holy presence.
10 and chiefly those going behind the flesh in desire of uncleanness, and lordship despising; presumptuous, self-complacent, dignities they are not afraid to speak evil of, 11 whereas messengers, in strength and power being greater, do not bear against them before the Lord an evil speaking judgment; 12 and these, as irrational natural beasts, made to be caught and destroyed — in what things they are ignorant of, speaking evil — in their destruction shall be destroyed, 13 about to receive a reward of unrighteousness, pleasures counting the luxury in the day, spots and blemishes, luxuriating in their deceits, feasting with you, 14 having eyes full of adultery, and unable to cease from sin, enticing unstable souls, having an heart exercised in covetousnesses, children of a curse, 15 having forsaken a right way, they did go astray, having followed in the way of Balaam the [son] of Bosor, who a reward of unrighteousness did love, 16 and had a rebuke of his own iniquity — a dumb ass, in man's voice having spoken, did forbid the madness of the prophet. 17 These are wells without water, and clouds by a tempest driven, to whom the thick gloom of the darkness to the age hath been kept; 18 for overswellings of vanity speaking, they do entice in desires of the flesh — lasciviousnesses, those who had truly escaped from those conducting themselves in error, 19 liberty to them promising, themselves being servants of the corruption, for by whom any one hath been overcome, to this one also he hath been brought to servitude, 20 for, if having escaped from the pollutions of the world, in the acknowledging of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and by these again being entangled, they have been overcome, become to them hath the last things worse than the first, 21 for it were better to them not to have acknowledged the way of the righteousness, than having acknowledged [it], to turn back from the holy command delivered to them, 22 and happened to them hath that of the true similitude; `A dog did turn back upon his own vomit,' and, `A sow having bathed herself — to rolling in mire.'
Hi:
Jodi Lee said:
Quote The enemies Jesus calls serpents, vipers and scorpions are MEN. Scripture shows that it is MAN that is said to fall from heaven, or rather his High Position. I agree with this.
In the following verses, we see that God is speaking about Nebuchadnezzar.
Quote Isa 14:12 “How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, [fn] son of the morning! [How] you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! Isa 14:13 For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north;
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'
Isa 14:15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit.
Isa 14:16 “Those who see you will gaze at you, [And] consider you, [saying]: '[Is] this the man who made the earth tremble, Who shook kingdoms,
Quote Isa 14:4 that you will take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say: “How the oppressor has ceased, The golden [fn] city ceased!
Isa 14:5 The LORD has broken the staff of the wicked, The scepter of the rulers;Here God is speaking of the King of Tyre, and it relates to Adam's fall as well.
Quote ze 28:12 “Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: “You [were] the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. Eze 28:13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone [was] your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
Eze 28:14 “You [were] the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
Eze 28:15 You [were] perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you.
Eze 28:16 “By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing Out of the mountain of God; And I destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the fiery stones.
Eze 28:17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor; I cast you to the ground, I laid you before kings, That they might gaze at you.
Eze 28:18 “You defiled your sanctuaries By the multitude of your iniquities, By the iniquity of your trading; Therefore I brought fire from your midst; It devoured you, And I turned you to ashes upon the earth In the sight of all who saw you.
Eze 28:19 All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you; You have become a horror, And [shall be] no more forever.”
Love in Christ,
Martyhi 94
so Adam was a angel a cherub angel this is like a higher class of angels ;this i did not know but
i don't believe it is true,
because Adam never travel to heaven,he was not anointed ,and the description in Eze;28-13 are absolutely not Adam's
Rev 17:4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries
this is also someone who has precious stone they must have something in common.
To All………..YLT…..Eze 28:2….> Son of man, say to the leader of Tyre: Thus said the Lord Jehovah: Because thy heart hath been high, And thou dost say: A god I am, The habitation of GOD I have inhabited, In the heart of the seas, And thou art a (MAN), and (NOT) a GOD, And thou givest out thy heart as the Heart of GOD, . This is describing a (MAN) not an Angle or anything else. IMO
hi gene
read this;Eze 28:12 “Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says:Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 04 2010,14:47) hi 94 so Adam was a angel a cherub angel this is like a higher class of angels ;this i did not know but
i don't believe it is true,
because Adam never travel to heaven,he was not anointed ,and the description in Eze;28-13 are absolutely not Adam's
Rev 17:4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries
this is also someone who has precious stone they must have something in common.
Hi T:Was the prince of Tyre a man?
Quote Eze 28:2 “Son of man, say to the prince of Tyre, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: “Because your heart [is] lifted up, And you say, 'I [am] a god, I sit [in] the seat of gods, In the midst of the seas,' Yet you [are] a man, and not a god, Though you set your heart as the heart of a god Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 04 2010,08:52) Hello Irene, The word angel means messenger and does not solely represent God's messengers from heaven, but it also in fact can and does represent human messengers.
The entire chapter is talking about sinful men betraying YHVH for their own gain.
We CAN see quite clearly that these messengers are the prophets spoken about in Jeremiah 23.
Jeremiah 23:9 My heart within me is broken Because of the prophets; All my bones shake. I am like a drunken man, And like a man whom wine has overcome, Because of the Lord, And because of His holy words. 10 For the land is full of adulterers; For because of a curse the land mourns. The pleasant places of the wilderness are dried up. Their course of life is evil, And their might is not right. 11 “For both prophet and priest are profane; Yes, in My house I have found their wickedness,” says the Lord. 12 “Therefore their way shall be to them Like slippery ways; In the darkness they shall be driven on And fall in them; For I will bring disaster on them, The year of their punishment,” says the Lord. 13 “And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria: They prophesied by Baal And caused My people Israel to err. 14 Also I have seen a horrible thing in the prophets of Jerusalem: They commit adultery and walk in lies; They also strengthen the hands of evildoers, So that no one turns back from his wickedness. All of them are like Sodom to Me, And her inhabitants like Gomorrah. 15 “Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts concerning the prophets: 'Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, And make them drink the water of gall; For from the prophets of Jerusalem Profaneness has gone out into all the land.' ” 16 Thus says the Lord of hosts: “Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you. They make you worthless; They speak a vision of their own heart, Not from the mouth of the Lord.
Jude 1:4 for there did come in unobserved certain men, long ago having been written beforehand to this judgment, impious, the grace of our God perverting to lasciviousness, and our only Master, God, and Lord — Jesus Christ — denying, 5 and to remind you I intend, you knowing once this, that the Lord, a people out of the land of Egypt having saved, again those who did not believe did destroy; 6 messengers also, those who did not keep their own principality, but did leave their proper dwelling, to a judgment of a great day, in bonds everlasting, under darkness He hath kept, 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, having given themselves to whoredom, and gone after other flesh, have been set before — an example, of fire age-during, justice suffering.
I have DIRECT scriptures to back up what I declare is the truth.
Hi Jodi,I'm glad you came along, your knowledge of God's word is vast!
Excellent Post: I only wish people would listen!Take a Look at this thread…
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….5;st=10It would be good for you to respond there as well!
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holoycitybible.orgQuote (terraricca @ Jan. 04 2010,16:09) hi 94
read there are two stories here one in EZE;28;2
and EZE28;12 this one is a lament or a metaphor
Hi T:Verses 12 is still speaking of the prince or king of Tyre which we have already established is a man, and Adam was in the Garden of Eden, and was given the Word of God, the command not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It was his responsibility to teach his wife, and apparently he did, but he went wrong in that when she ate, he also ate rather than fulfilling the responsibility that God had given him.
Love in Christ,
MartyTeraraccia……….Both King and Prince Both were men……….How could GOD bring a “SATAN” Being to ASHES , Men can be brought to ashes i don't Think SPIRIT can. That is if you think He is a Satan SPIRIT BEING of Some kind. IMO
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 04 2010,16:09) hi 94
read there are two stories here one in EZE;28;2
and EZE28;12 this one is a lament or a metaphor
Hi Terraricca,Your right on the money, compare with Isaiah 14:4-26.
God bless you my brother!
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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