what truth do we know for sure ?

Participant

Quote (ftk @ Dec. 13 2011,22:36)

“saved” us from the “sin” we thought we had.

Hi Tim,

Once again you are saying things that are 'un-Biblical'.
“If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar,
and his word is not in us.” (1John 1:10)

Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

December 13, 2011 at 3:43 pm#267713

Participant

Ed: 1) Tell me Ed, is sin is something that one does…. what sins or which sin did Jesus save you from?

2) Does Jesus save us from…doing sins….or does Jesus save of after we have done a sin?

3) Are babies born in sin?

Thanks, TK

December 14, 2011 at 11:59 pm#267910

Participant

Quote (ftk @ Dec. 14 2011,01:43)

Ed: 1) A)Tell me Ed, is sin is something that one does…. B)what sins or which sin did Jesus save you from?

2) Does Jesus save us from…doing sins….or does Jesus save of after we have done a sin?

3) Are babies born in sin?

Thanks, TK

Hi Tim,

1) A. Yes
B. That is personal.

2) Jesus took the punishment for our sins.

3) Babies are born into a sinful world, so they learn to sin.

Your welcome
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

December 15, 2011 at 12:45 am#267918

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (ftk @ Dec. 13 2011,05:36)

……helping an old lady across the street is a kind act but it will not improve your position in God nor unite you to God!!

Jeremiah 22
15 “Does it make you a king
to have more and more cedar?
Did not your father have food and drink?
He did what was right and just,
so all went well with him.
16 He defended the cause of the poor and needy,
and so all went well.
Is that not what it means to know me?”
declares the LORD.

Tim, notice that one of the reasons things went well for David was BECAUSE he did these things of his own volition. And God said that doing these sorts of things is what it means to know Him.

Quote (ftk @ Dec. 13 2011,05:36)

A person cannot be a clean Son of God if he believes he is a sinner separated from God.

Luke 18
10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Tim, I pray, “Forgive me God, and have mercy on me, a sinner”. You apparently don't feel the need to do the same. We differ in this respect.

Were you ever going to address my Revelation 3 post from last page?

December 15, 2011 at 11:22 am#267955

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 11 2011,02:27)

Revelation 3
2 Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. 3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

Tim, Jesus said the above words to the church in Sardis – to people who had already accepted him as their Lord and Savior. So what are these “deeds” Jesus is talking to them about? How can their “deeds” not be “complete” if all we are required to do is accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior?

Mike: Greetings my friend in Christ Jesus! Bless you this day and always.

Without repeating to much you know I guess that I see the old testament as totally work oriented, trying to please God, doing “good” deeds and “bad” deeds with judgment close behind.

I see the New Covenant, replacing the old way by the new Spirit truth from Jesus. Cleansing by the word of God. This covenant has no works or deeds because Jesus did it for us and gave it to us as a salvation package of perfection by faith unto God. This he accomplished at a very high price!

Now I see faith in the gift of Jesus as the only way to perfect unto God. Nothing but faith lest one could boast that he had a part.

Rev.3:1….KJV…V1….I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest….(but) and art dead.
V2…for I have not found thy works perfect before God….[the old way of works and deeds]
V3….Remember therefore, how thou hast (now, NT) received and heard(by faith) and hold fast, and repent!

This is how I see the truth from my heart. I believe it is for all to hold fast to faith in what Jesus accomplished ''for” us which is the total cleansing of the words of God by faith! Anything man decides is an addition or subtraction only matters if it effects his faith. Both addition or subtraction radically effect pure faith. Then salvation becomes, the works of Jesus and the good or bad works of man, equals some faith or tainted faith but not pure!

The old way was with works! The New Way is by faith alone!

In the New Covenant of Christ, pure faith in the gift of Jesus is the only way to please and unite with God with a pure heart. IMO,TK

December 16, 2011 at 3:44 am#268026

mikeboll64

Blocked

Hi Tim,

“Hold fast and REPENT” from WHAT? What did they need to REPENT from after accepting Jesus as their Lord and Savior?

December 16, 2011 at 11:01 am#268036

Participant

Mike: The word translated, “repent” is ''metanoia”:…… to think differently….or afterwards….reconsider…..feel compunction!

For me it means to turn from previous thinking of sin/acts/works/ and deeds for acceptance or perfection unto God…..accept the good news and hold fast to it against the wiles of evil thinking people that come against the truth of God to kill it, steal it and destroy it. The temptations that Christ Jesus promised would come as soon as one accepted and believed the truth/seed planted in their hearts are the temptations to believe the lies of higher up/preachers/teachers/etc., that are ordained by men and not necessarily God!! Doctrines that put off salvation into the future….doctrines that deny access by faith into the power of God for healing the masses….doctrines that leave man searching for the very perfection and oneness that Jesus provided by faith.

I was always taught that the temptations that would come were things I wanted to experience in life that “religion” said were sins against God. I did them any way but I always felt my own condemnation for doing them. God does not condemn you for anything! There is no condemnation in Christ. If you ever feel condemned for something, it is not God, it is usually your own self judgment unto condemnation. After all, are we not judges in this day? Jesus said,….judge not(condemn not)…..lest(or if you do) you be judged/condemned! That would include condemning oneself or others it matter not which.

[for clarification from me, I see judgments as choices that we make 24/7! Condemnation I see as judging an act or deed or anything as wrong in the eyes of God. That's not our place to judge.]

Blessing to you and yours! These are my opinions. TK

December 17, 2011 at 5:07 pm#268186

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (ftk @ Dec. 16 2011,04:01)

Jesus said,….judge not(condemn not)…..lest(or if you do) you be judged/condemned!

Jesus also said that we would be judged with the same measure with which we judge others.

Do you agree that we will be judged?

Revelation 2
20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21 I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.

Tim, does Jesus say that some will “suffer intensely”? Does he say he will repay each one according to their DEEDS?

What do you make of this?

(I deleted your premature post for you.)

December 17, 2011 at 10:58 pm#268210

Participant

Mike: Thanks my friend for the pre-post-deleation!

A reminder here that I see the word judgment as choices, decisions and opinions that we make 24/7! A more accurate translation is “condemnation!

Condemning another as ''wrong'' in Gods eyes is just like looking in a mirror and condemning yourself. Condemn not….lest…ye be condemned!! Self-condemnation or ''blaming” oneself for whatever is destructive to the temple of God.

In that ye condemn another,….it shall be the same unto you!

We are judged by the word, as perfect by God through Christ Jesus. If we accept, believe and hold fast to that truth we will never be judged again. What judgment could there be? The words of God judge us as clean, righteous, whole and pure unto God. Not by anything we do but by what Jesus has done and given to us as a gift from God! There is no condemnation/judgment for those in Christ.

Why….because they have passed from death to life! [ We ''were'' dead in trespasses and sin! ] But now we have been made alive through Christ! Those in Christ are new, pure creations of God! They have been washed clean with the words of God. Cleansed by the blood of the lamb once and for all!

If for a moment you don't think people are suffering sickness, disease, life destroying cancers, diseases of all sorts, then you need to open your eyes. These things are “life” destroyers. They are killers. They steal life from Gods sons because of their lack of knowledge. God said…my people suffer for a lack of knowledge! The fires of Hell are at work in the form of depressions, anxieties, pain, etc.! When will Gods sons stand up and fight the “good” fight of faith in life/God? When will the Kingdom of God or the “ruling” power of God begin to flow through his sons? Only when we “see”clearly and “wash with the word” and purify the channel of Gods love through each believer. WE MUST WORK THE WORKS OF GOD!! IMO, TK

December 17, 2011 at 11:09 pm#268211

Participant

Quote (ftk @ Dec. 18 2011,15:58)

Mike: Thanks my friend for the pre-post-deleation!

A reminder here that I see the word judgment as choices, decisions and opinions that we make 24/7! A more accurate translation is “condemnation!

In that ye condemn another,….it shall be the same unto you!

Jas 3:2 We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to keep his whole body in check.

Jas 3:1 Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.
Jas 3:2 We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to keep his whole body in check.
Jas 3:3 When we put bits into the mouths of horses to make them obey us, we can turn the whole animal.
Jas 3:4 Or take ships as an example. Although they are so large and are driven by strong winds, they are steered by a very small rudder wherever the pilot wants to go.
Jas 3:5 Likewise the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark.
Jas 3:6 The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.
Jas 3:7 All kinds of animals, birds, reptiles and creatures of the sea are being tamed and have been tamed by man,
Jas 3:8 but no man can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison.
Jas 3:9 With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God’s likeness.
Jas 3:10 Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers, this should not be.
Jas 3:11 Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring?
Jas 3:12 My brothers, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water

are you perfect ??

Pierre

December 17, 2011 at 11:43 pm#268215

Participant

Pierre: John17:23 says….Jesus said, I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one…!

Eph. 4:13….every gift in Jesus is in us for…..the perfecting of the saints…(in order to) do the work of the ministry….V13…till we all come in the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the son of God, unto a perfect man unto the measure of the stature of Christ….

Col.1:28….that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus….

Col. 4:14…..that you may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God….

11Tim.3:17…..the word of God is for…..instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good/God works….

I am perfect unto God through Christ Jesus!! He made me perfect. I do not deny the word of God that tells me so. I have done nothing to earn that position it is the same for “whosoever” will come and accept by faith. If you truly follow the word of God and do not deny its truth you would believe it is the same for you!! TK

December 18, 2011 at 12:32 am#268220

Participant

Quote (ftk @ Dec. 18 2011,09:43)

Pierre: John17:23 says….Jesus said, I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one…!

Col.1:28….that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus….

Col. 4:14…..that you may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God….

11Tim.3:17…..the word of God is for…..instruction in righteousness,
that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good/God works….

Hi Tim,

Are you sure you want to post 2Tm.3:17?
Especially since it goes against 'your truth'?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

December 18, 2011 at 1:37 am#268225

Participant

Quote (ftk @ Dec. 18 2011,16:43)

Pierre: John17:23 says….Jesus said, I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one…!

Col.1:28….that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus….

Col. 4:14…..that you may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God….

11Tim.3:17…..the word of God is for…..instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good/God works….

first let see what is it that scriptures are saying ;

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

the two scriptures above are mention as a contradiction to your believe ;1) it says ALL SCRIPTURES ;GUESS WHAT SCRIPTURES PAUL HAD IN HIS HANDS ? TO DO WHAT ?EVERY GOOD WORK; WHAT ARE THE GOOD WORK?

2Ti 3:1 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days.
2Ti 3:2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good,
2Ti 3:4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God—
2Ti 3:5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.
2Ti 3:6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires,
2Ti 3:7 always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth.
2Ti 3:8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these men oppose the truth—men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected.
2Ti 3:9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.

THE ABOVE SCRIPTURES DESCRIBES THE CONDITION IN WITCH WE HAVE TO PERFORM THOSE WORKS.

2Ti 3:8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses ;do you know what happen with them ??
By: Bob Deffinbaugh
as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these people – who have warped minds and are disqualified in the faith – also oppose the truth. 9 But they will not go much further, for their foolishness will be obvious to everyone, just like it was with Jannes and Jambres (2 Timothy 3:1-9, emphasis mine). I find this text especially interesting. These false teachers are likened to Jannes and Jambres, who opposed Moses (verses 8-9). But what is most significant here is that these teachers teach in such a way that their instruction must be repeated

NOW THIS ;

Tit 1:1 Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ for the faith of God’s elect and the knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness—
Tit 1:2 a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time,

DO YOU SEE WHAT LEADS TO GODLINESS ? faith of God’s elect and the knowledge of the truth ; WHAT IS TRUTH ?

THE WORD OF GOD ,NOT OURS ,IF OUR BELIEVE IS NOT BACKED UP IN SCRIPTURES THEN WE ARE PART OF THOSE THAT WORKING AGAINST GOD WILL AND SO OPPOSED TO GOD WRITTEN WORD,AND SO OPPOSED AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT;

WHY?; 2Pe 1:20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

SO PLEASE REVISE YOUR KNOWLEDGE TO THE WORD OF GOD ,

Pierre

December 18, 2011 at 12:17 pm#268268

Participant

Pierre:
………TO DO WHAT ?EVERY GOOD WORK; WHAT ARE THE GOOD WORK…..

Jesus went about doing good! God is good! Good works are God works. Total salvation unto mankind is the “work” of God! Works of God are any form of love expressed that man cannot do of himself. Works of kindness and deeds of kindness that a man can do, even if he doesn't know God are just that, a mans efforts apart from God!….. Saving from death, healing, curing sickness, prophesying over men what will happen in the future these are works of Gods power, that come through a purified man, but those works are like Jesus said, I can do nothing,(apart from God) the works I do are not mine but the Father in me, he doeth the works!

……THE ABOVE SCRIPTURES DESCRIBES THE CONDITION IN WITCH WE HAVE TO PERFORM THOSE WORKS……

Pierre! If you think that your own, man created performances, before God, have anything to do, whatsoever, with the total salvation Jesus provided with his life…..then you continue to be dead in trespasses and sin. Faith, believing God is the only salvation provided for mankind. Accept it or reject it….there is nothing mankind can add to it or subtract from it. Salvation is the gift of God….IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR PERFORMANCE…ONE WAY OR ANOTHER!!……. YOUR PERFORMANCE FOR SALVATION IS A BLATANT REJECTION OF THE TOTAL SALVATION [BY FAITH] FROM JESUS!!!……..You best change your mind on that one!

……..Tit 1:1 Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ for the faith of God’s elect and [the knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness—]…….Does not the knowledge of God that I share have truth that leads to Godliness, sinless perfection, cleanliness, righteousness et.al.? Is this not the actual truth you have been fighting me about since the beginning? PERFECT GODLINESS COMES FROM “UNDERSTANDING” THE SCRIPTURES OF GOD!!….IT IS MY KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH THAT HAS SENT ME TO TELL THE GOOD NEWS TO OTHERS OF OUR PERFECTION BY FAITH……YOU JUST SAID ABOVE YOU BELIEVE IN YOUR PERFORMANCE!…….THAT IS NOT FAITH…..that is man working out his own salvation.

Tit 1:2 a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time,
DO YOU SEE WHAT LEADS TO GODLINESS ? faith of God’s elect and the knowledge of the truth ; WHAT IS TRUTH ?……..

There seems to be something wrong with either you or me. I have been espousing this truth since the beginning. You have been calling me imperfect. You have called everyone imperfect. You believe in works and deeds or performance to aid or buy your perfection in Christ.

This is not what I have been saying. If either of us have been ever learning but unable to come to the truth(or perfection by faith) its you!! IMO, TK

December 27, 2011 at 5:55 pm#269646

Wakeup

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ April 26 2011,14:15)

all

the gospel is preached to the world but only a few will be saved,why is that ?

because there is only a few that give the consideration to the gospel what it need,obedience with faith

How are you Terra?

Your question is; what is truth.
Every word that comes out of the mouth of God is truth.
How can we know that we have the WHOLE truth?
If we know how to decern the scriptures,and able to put the pieces together,like a jigsaw puzzle,and see the picture clearly,with no distortion,(contradiction)then we know that we have the whole truth,not part of the truth.

THats why we have to seek for the treasures,The mysterys that are hidden in the scriptures.For in this is life.
John6:63. It is the spirit that quickeneth;the flesh prophiteth nothing; THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT,AND THEY ARE LIFE.

God bless.

wakeup.

January 4, 2012 at 8:32 pm#270766

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 28 2011,10:55)

Quote (terraricca @ April 26 2011,14:15)

all

the gospel is preached to the world but only a few will be saved,why is that ?

because there is only a few that give the consideration to the gospel what it need,obedience with faith

How are you Terra?

God bless.

wakeup.

wakeup

let get one thing strait;the scriptures are Gods word to us ,

so why are so many trying to make it their own words

let the scriptures the way they are written in any translation you feel at ease to read,and read it in a way that you can believe all what is written in it ,and trust in God ,understand what God want you to understand ,do not ad or subtract anything ,and wen you have read the entire bible ,start over again until your questions have been answered ,

and let the scriptures enter your heart and believe them as they are written ,

God will now guide you to understanding,

Pierre

January 4, 2012 at 8:41 pm#270768

Participant

Quote

This is not what I have been saying. If either of us have been ever learning but unable to come to the truth(or perfection by faith) its you!! IMO, TK

if i claim to be a carpenter ;what are you expect from me ;?? is not carpentry work ?if i can not do that then I will be called a liar right ??yes

Jas 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. ;;so if you say that you are a Christian then you have to produce the works or deeds of you faith that you proclaim to have or YOUR FAITH IS DEAD ,IN OTHER WORDS YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY FAITH THAT IS CALLED TRUE CHRISTIAN .

Pierre

January 14, 2012 at 4:08 pm#272288

Participant

Pierre: You say….so,faith…without deeds is dead!….[A scripture of truth]! Then you start to make up your own little doctrine when you say….”so if you say you are a Christian (which neither of us deny) then you have to produce the works or deeds of the faith that you proclaim to have…or your faith is dead! OK! Lets see, what would a Christian proclaim to have from God by faith! Salvation is by faith…how do you show that you have salvation?……Only faith……Forgiveness is by faith…so how do you show your faith in forgiveness to prove your faith?…….Only faith…….How about your cleansing from sin?…..What works and deeds prove you are cleansed from sin?……none, only faith!

You have the spirit/power of God, living within, like Jesus had, to administer God/health to those that were sick and in need of healing, which is how Jesus and all the disciples, and followers did, because that was the commission Jesus gave them…… [so the way to show/prove pure, God/Within, Christian Faith ]…..to the world is….. healing the sick, raising the dead and casting out lies/devils with the truth…..just like Jesus did! That is true Christian (christ-like) faith in God!

So, faith in God, that is not dead, is working through all his followers out unto all the world to whosoever will believe! TK

January 14, 2012 at 4:36 pm#272293