- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 27 2010,16:15) To whomever it may concern, It seems that some individuals believe that Adam and Eve were not immortal before their fall and these people back up that conclusion by pointing to the existence of the Tree of Life.
It seems they conclude that there would be no reason for the Tree of Life to exist if Adam and Eve already were immortal. That is certainly a reasonable conjecture if you assume God does everything for a reason and did not know Adam and Eve would disobey him and eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Of course God did know as he is all knowing.
We also have Genesis 2:7 where God clearly states that those who eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil will die. Since God does not lie it follows that eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil will cause one to die. Satan applied it literally and thus deceptively in his temptation of Eve as the death does not immediately follow eating the fruit but it does result from eating the fruit even as God stated, Genesis 3:3-4. It is therefore obvious that what God meant is that the immortal would be transformed to the mortal and thus death would result as nature demanded of the mortal.
In addition God taught Adam that mankind could eat of any tree in the Garden but the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. That means both Adam and Eve were free to eat of the tree of Life until after they fell. It is after their fall that it was banned to them and then only because mankind was not ready for it at that time. We though, have access to the Tree of Life through obedience to all the teaching of Jesus the King of everything in heaven and on earth.
Kerwin………Perhaps GOD Himself was that tree of life, a tree symbolically means (that which produces from the self) and when He was present with them they could eat (take to themselves) from him , but when the went there own way then they separated themselves from Him and the LORD caused a Sword of Judgment to exist between them and Him. So now no man can return except they go through the Flaming Sword a man must face that Judgment before he can return to GOD. Just my opinion , but i think it is in line with what is written in Genesis.We who are being called now are in that fiery (judgement Now), “THINK IT NOT STRANGE CONCERNING THIS FIERY TRIAL THAT HAS TRIED YOU AS IF SOME STRANGE THING HAS HAPPENED UNTO YOU. and again :FOR JUDGMENT STARTS WITH THE HOUSE OF GOD'> Because all things are purified by fire just as gold and silver and other precious metals are so is Man purified by the fire of Judgment.
peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 26 2010,15:55) To all that seek the truth, I have a mystery that I would propose for you to think on. This mystery involves interpreting 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 and some surrounding scriptures so I have included it for your use. It is also about the Garden of Eden.
1 Corinthians 15:50-54(NIV) reads:
Quote I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”
Now that you have looked at the part of 1 Corinthians that relates to the mystery I will pose the mystery to you. Before Adam and Eve fell they were immortal. Therefore were their bodies fleshly or spiritual since their bodies were not perishable until after they ate the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil? As far as I know scripture does not directly answer this mystery though it seems reasonable to believe their bodies at that time were like the bodies we will have after the resurrection.
What is your answer to my direct question?
Kerwin,
The bodies that God formed for Adam and Eve were not subject to death.
I came to this conclusion in a backwards process.
Let us consider this.
Death did not exist until sin entered into the world. Romans 5:12
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
And I Corinthians 15:21
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
( No wonder JC is the resurrection and the life. He earned it for all mankind. What a verse to show trinitarians that man is not mere. It was Jesus Christ's obedience to God made him the man that made resurrection available. How much more we should want to humble ourselves, emptying ourselves of our self pride and ego and truly obey God. Who knows what wonderful things God could bring to pass by our obedience to His word? Actually the word tells us what God will do when we obey His word.)
Adam and Eve sinned, thus allowing our adversary, the devil, access to them that he did not have before. Hebrews 2:14 says that the devil has the power of death.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
God is light and in him is no darkness at all. I John 1:5
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
Death is an enemy is says in I Corinthians 15:26
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
They did not need a body like the resurrected Christ, because sin had not entered into the world. Therefore death had not entered into the world.
Had Adam and Eve not sinned they would be alive today still living in the garden.
With that in mind, what if Adam and Eve had not sinned, yet Cain sinned. Adam and Eve would still be in paradise, but Cain would have been expelled. I will stop there because speculation can lead to very unprofitable conversations.
barley
barely……..Adam and Eve did sin they missed the mark, but i think the Mark of the adversary was put on Cain. But as you said this can get into speculating, and that is not wrong as long as we know it is speculating that is going on.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………gene
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 29 2010,13:22) Dennison, Just letting you know I read your post but see no need to discuss anything further on this thread right now.
Its all Good my brother =)
Dont worry lol i happen not to have anything left to sayThe body of man was subject to decay and death just like any other flesh and bone, dust, of the earth.
The difference was that this decay and decline into death would be astained due to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus demonstrated how the Holy Spirit in him could revitalise a body. God himself made Moses' hand go sick…and then cured him again.
Any hurt sustained by the brutal earth on mankind would have been cured instantly through the power of God's indwelling Holy Spirit.
Because Adam sinned, the Holy Spirit was withdrawn, subjecting mankind to the delined in even the basic selfsustaining elements of the body, leading to inherited abnormalities and an ultimate failure of the vital life sustaining functions..death.
If Jesus had not had the Holy Spirit withdrawn from him while on the cross ('My God, My God, why have you faresaken me') then he coud not have died. Jesus could certainly suffer in the flesh but had he asked all pain and suffering could have been wiped away in a moment but it was necessary that he suffer, and be seen to be suffering, and for him to endure the suffering, even unto death.
Quote (JustAskin @ Aug. 31 2010,09:10) The body of man was subject to decay and death just like any other flesh and bone, dust, of the earth. The difference was that this decay and decline into death would be astained due to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus demonstrated how the Holy Spirit in him could revitalise a body. God himself made Moses' hand go sick…and then cured him again.
Any hurt sustained by the brutal earth on mankind would have been cured instantly through the power of God's indwelling Holy Spirit.
Because Adam sinned, the Holy Spirit was withdrawn, subjecting mankind to the delined in even the basic selfsustaining elements of the body, leading to inherited abnormalities and an ultimate failure of the vital life sustaining functions..death.
If Jesus had not had the Holy Spirit withdrawn from him while on the cross ('My God, My God, why have you faresaken me') then he coud not have died. Jesus could certainly suffer in the flesh but had he asked all pain and suffering could have been wiped away in a moment but it was necessary that he suffer, and be seen to be suffering, and for him to endure the suffering, even unto death.
hi JAthis is a good point,
Pierre
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 26 2010,15:55) To all that seek the truth, I have a mystery that I would propose for you to think on. This mystery involves interpreting 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 and some surrounding scriptures so I have included it for your use. It is also about the Garden of Eden.
1 Corinthians 15:50-54(NIV) reads:
Quote I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”
Now that you have looked at the part of 1 Corinthians that relates to the mystery I will pose the mystery to you. Before Adam and Eve fell they were immortal. Therefore were their bodies fleshly or spiritual since their bodies were not perishable until after they ate the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil? As far as I know scripture does not directly answer this mystery though it seems reasonable to believe their bodies at that time were like the bodies we will have after the resurrection.
What is your answer to my direct question?
You are mistaken kerwin, no one was created immortal, not the angels, not even Jesus. If you're immortal, then death is impossible.
Adam and Eve were created to live for ever, but that is not immortality.
When we are resurrected in the millennium, with a new flesh body, and if we listen to the teachings of Jesus, then we too will receive the gift of God, eternal life, living for ever, but that is not immortality either.
Adam and Eve had the same flesh body, that we have, only God allowed them to live longer then.Georg
Hi Kerwin
This is something I read years ago,
The first book of Adam and Eve, also called – The Conflict of Adam and Eve with Satan.available here…lt's in short chapters, you need to click on the next chapter at the bottom of each page,
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/fbe/fbe006.htm
Here's a few fact's on it,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_of_Adam_and_Eve_with_Satan
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
