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Kar,
Thanks. Perhaps if others who start a thread would likewise also 'Moderate' them the topic would be more quickly bear fruit – or wither…Branches of discussion are certainly drawn from the main trunk but a good gardener prunes these off to maintain the vigour and energy into the fruitful stems of the tree.
I mean stars that we see in the sky, or things that looked like stars but were different. Example bright lights in the sky.Is there any?
Kar,
No link at all.
Only the 'Stars' who are the 'Princes' who 'sang together' when the creation was completed.
The 'Princes' or 'Principle Sons' of God – of whom ONE HAS FALLEN!
Whom might that ONE have been?And, if One Son has fallen, is not another RAISED UP in his place, BEGOTTEN – in his place!!
Was not Adam – first and Only Son of God (in the flesh) – and was not Jesus BEGOTTEN in his place?Jay, fractals. You know how my mothers into that, well, I told her what you said about that (what you said in your post), and she didnt debate back, (if I remember right) Just sort of (seemed to) think about it. But i'm (again) too tired, so goodnight.
Oh, I see, no link at all, ok, thanks. I was just wondering.
Stars though are used as signs, but thats another subject. Nite.Hi Kar,
Sorry, I'm not getting it. Can you let me know what you think the link is.
Can you let me know what your mother says as well. So far no one has commented on the points I raised – seems they fear saying what they know to be true (They have no problem commenting when they think I'm wrong – sad, so sad! I thought unity was a part of Spiritualness and truth!)
Quote (Istari @ April 24 2011,06:46) And, if One Son has fallen, is not another RAISED UP in his place, BEGOTTEN – in his place!!
So then Jesus was begotten the minute Satan fell?
Istari, if you could only believe the scriptures that say Satan and all other angels were created through God's firstborn Son, then you wouldn't be so lost on this matter.
But you don't believe, and so you are lost.
mike
Quote (Istari @ April 24 2011,07:46) So far no one has commented on the points I raised – seems they fear saying what they know to be true (They have no problem commenting when they think I'm wrong – sad, so sad! I thought unity was a part of Spiritualness and truth!)
I don't believe anyone really “fears” you or what you say. Roll our eyes? Sure. But “fear”? Not a chance.And when's the last time YOU posted a “Good post, Mike” to me? It's a two-way street Istari.
mike
Mike,
I wasn't looking for 'Good post,mike/Istari' – I was saying that no one has commented on a point I made – that does not require 'Good post, Istari' but rather, 'My thoughts on this are…'
I think it was a point worth raising as we know that a PROMINENT ANGEL fell into Sin.
It is clear that whomever Satan was, he is excessively influencial and has greater power than almost ALL OTHER ANGELS… – in fact he could even be said to be EQUAL to Jesus (PreEarthRisenJesus) as even God Almighty made him God over the Earth… That is no mean position to be in!!Irene outlined a rank of Angels who are also certainly of great might and occupy high positions in Heaven…in power it seems Michael is greater than Gabriel and is named as 'one of the CHIEF Princes', yet when I ask about 'the Princes of him has fallen' everyone goes quiet…
This is the sentiment that I keep emphasising we should divert from in our thinking. People do not want to THINK of Satan as an original Prince to God because he was naughty…yet so revered was he that even Michael would not bring a reviling comment against him (Respect for Senior ranks!)
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 25 2011,06:48) Quote (Istari @ April 24 2011,07:46) So far no one has commented on the points I raised – seems they fear saying what they know to be true (They have no problem commenting when they think I'm wrong – sad, so sad! I thought unity was a part of Spiritualness and truth!)
I don't believe anyone really “fears” you or what you say. Roll our eyes? Sure. But “fear”? Not a chance.And when's the last time YOU posted a “Good post, Mike” to me? It's a two-way street Istari.
mike
Mike,Where in my post does it say others should fear me.
I said they FEAR TRUTH… oh, ok… Yes, I see what you mean. Thanks!
Good point, Mike!
Quote (Istari @ April 24 2011,14:30) yet when I ask about 'the Princes of him has fallen' everyone goes quiet…
What is it you want us to say? If Michael is one of the princes, and HE is not greater than or equal to Jesus, then why would you think Satan, as one of the princes, is?
Satan must have at one time been in good graces with God for him to have fallen out of them. No one has denied this, have they?
So what exactly IS your point? Do you view the fact that God gave the earth to Satan as proof that Satan is above others? What if the earth was the “crap-pot” of all the planets? How do you know it isn't? It could have been like placing Satan at the Russian Front in WWII for all we know. Maybe that's why he was angry and started working against God.
The fact is that we DON'T know anything about it. And for you to just assume that Satan was equal in status to, or even above the one through whom he was created is a matter of your imagination adding to scripture what isn't there.
mike
Quote (Istari @ April 24 2011,14:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 25 2011,06:48) Quote (Istari @ April 24 2011,07:46) So far no one has commented on the points I raised – seems they fear saying what they know to be true (They have no problem commenting when they think I'm wrong – sad, so sad! I thought unity was a part of Spiritualness and truth!)
I don't believe anyone really “fears” you or what you say. Roll our eyes? Sure. But “fear”? Not a chance.And when's the last time YOU posted a “Good post, Mike” to me? It's a two-way street Istari.
mike
Mike,Where in my post does it say others should fear me.
I said they FEAR TRUTH… oh, ok… Yes, I see what you mean. Thanks!
Good point, Mike!
Then also recognize that we DON'T fear you because you AREN'T “truth”.Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 25 2011,14:47) Quote (Istari @ April 24 2011,14:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 25 2011,06:48) Quote (Istari @ April 24 2011,07:46) So far no one has commented on the points I raised – seems they fear saying what they know to be true (They have no problem commenting when they think I'm wrong – sad, so sad! I thought unity was a part of Spiritualness and truth!)
I don't believe anyone really “fears” you or what you say. Roll our eyes? Sure. But “fear”? Not a chance.And when's the last time YOU posted a “Good post, Mike” to me? It's a two-way street Istari.
mike
Mike,Where in my post does it say others should fear me.
I said they FEAR TRUTH… oh, ok… Yes, I see what you mean. Thanks!
Good point, Mike!
Then also recognize that we DON'T fear you because you AREN'T “truth”.
Quote (Istari @ April 25 2011,07:30) Mike, I wasn't looking for 'Good post,mike/Istari' – I was saying that no one has commented on a point I made – that does not require 'Good post, Istari' but rather, 'My thoughts on this are…'
I think it was a point worth raising as we know that a PROMINENT ANGEL fell into Sin.
It is clear that whomever Satan was, he is excessively influencial and has greater power than almost ALL OTHER ANGELS… – in fact he could even be said to be EQUAL to Jesus (PreEarthRisenJesus) as even God Almighty made him God over the Earth… That is no mean position to be in!!Irene outlined a rank of Angels who are also certainly of great might and occupy high positions in Heaven…in power it seems Michael is greater than Gabriel and is named as 'one of the CHIEF Princes', yet when I ask about 'the Princes of him has fallen' everyone goes quiet…
This is the sentiment that I keep emphasising we should divert from in our thinking. People do not want to THINK of Satan as an original Prince to God because he was naughty…yet so revered was he that even Michael would not bring a reviling comment against him (Respect for Senior ranks!)
Istari: Where do you(and most others) come up with “Lucifer” as “Satan”??Isaiah 12:14 is the only place in the Bible the term “Lucifer” is used. The hebrew word, “heylel” is one of the root Hebrew words that compose the word Hallelujah! It is, Brightness, brilliance, white, goodly, gay!
If there was anyone or any entity made with total contol, beauty and pomp it was Adam. God gave Adam control of the whole earth. God does not run things on earth. It was given in its fullness to mankind to have dominion over. Man rules the earth. That is why it is in the mess its in.
If God were ruling the Earth his way, in peace, love, joy, meekness, kindness, gentleness and total love we would not have the need for salvation from total destruction. Man chose evil. Had he chosen life only, we would not have evil. Mankind must now turn things back or transform all evil back to love where it came from. Yes we must love evil. Didn't Jesus say to love your enemies and do good to those who mistreat you? When loved, evil will transform back to the love it was from the beginning. IMO, TK
Quote (Istari @ April 25 2011,03:46) Hi Kar, Sorry, I'm not getting it. Can you let me know what you think the link is.
Can you let me know what your mother says as well. So far no one has commented on the points I raised – seems they fear saying what they know to be true (They have no problem commenting when they think I'm wrong – sad, so sad! I thought unity was a part of Spiritualness and truth!)
Hmmm. I agree.
Sometimes good points arent commented on, and only that which can be debated, are. Depends I suppose.Jay, Im learning and reading, rather than commenting.
I find your points interesting.
I will let you know what my mother says.
Quote (Lightenup @ April 22 2011,12:17) Pierre,
Do you see that the 'angel' in this passage is named Jehovah?Hos 12:2-5
2 The Lord(Jehovah) also has a dispute with Judah, And will punish Jacob according to his ways; He will repay him according to his deeds.
3 In the womb he took his brother by the heel, And in his maturity he contended with God.
4 Yes, he wrestled with the angel and prevailed; He wept and sought His favor. He found Him at Bethel And there He spoke with us,
5 Even the Lord(Jehovah), the God of hosts, The Lord(Jehovah) is His name.
NASU
Hi LU,
The angel who wrestled with Jacob is named in gen 32.
God indwells his angels-they are SONS of God.Hi,
What is an Angel?
All spirit creatures that are not God.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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