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Quote (terraricca @ April 11 2010,16:10) CO
what translation are you usingIsaia 45 ;6-7 does not sound like yours,
and your conclutions are out of scriptures and reflect you in sight view of your heart.
terraricca.
I use the “Concordant Literal translation”, also I use the “Interlinear Scripture Analyser”, as it has all the Hebrew and Greek symbols that the original scriptures used, and translates them accuratly as to meaning and sentence stucture, not altering the order used in a sentence. I find this to be the most accurate translation (imo).Blessings.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 12 2010,03:32) Terraricca………The scriptures he has posted read them . GOD plainly say he did create evil as well as good, in fact he created (EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS) and that includes the evil. IMO Mat 5:39…> But I say unto you, That you resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite you on thy cheek, turn to him the other also.
Read all the way to Verse 5:48.Rom 13:1……> Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is (NO) Power but of GOD: the powers that be are ordained by God. verse 2..> Whosoever therefore resists the power, resists the ordnance of God and they that resist shall recieve to themselves damnation or judgement.
Some times we like to Put GOD over here and Evil over there and try to make our own idea of where this and that fits, but truth is GOD is OVER EVERYTHING that Exists, and can change it, alter it , or do what ever He see fit to with all things.
This is not to say we are not to try to resist evil doing. We should all strive to do good always. But God does allow evil in our lives at times and many times there is nothing we can do about it , Just pray and ask for help in our times of need. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………….gene
genei am almost ok with what you say,but it is men that on trial here not God,men is the sinner,not God.God does not created to destroy it,he is live.
sure God put the tree of good and evil knowledge in the garden but it was far away from a needed tree for Adam.Adam spirit was not with the spirit or thoughts of God,to lessen to God voice
he could have stay away from it all his live ,what he could not reject is the confrontation of good and evil,because he picked to fallow the evil.those damn choice we have to make every day between what is godly and evil,Adam surly given it to us,but Christ came from his father to take us out of it ,and show us the way as well.
and remember we bring it on us the evil we live in even today.
God always stand by to help but very few want his help and look for it,
God can only be found in righteousness not in evil,God as given us his law do we fallow it NO,so we pick evil again,and so wickedness progresses and growing worse daily.
God did not create the evil on the earth it is men,God only as created a way out for the righteous ones.God even put his only son at risk for the redemption of the righteous.
terraricca.
Following is the first chapter of Ephesians…Chapter 1
1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through the will of God, to all the saints who are also believers in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace to you and peace from God, our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who blesses us with every spiritual blessing among the celestials, in Christ,
4 according as He chooses us in Him before the disruption of the world, we to be holy and flawless in His sight,
5 in love designating us beforehand for the place of a son for Him through Christ Jesus; in accord with the delight of His will,
6 for the laud of the glory of His grace, which graces us in the Beloved:
7 in Whom we are having the deliverance through His blood, the forgiveness of offenses in accord with the riches of His grace,
8 which He lavishes on us; in all wisdom and prudence
9 making known to us the secret of His will (in accord with His delight, which He purposed in Him)
10 to have an administration of the complement of the eras, to head up all in the Christ — both that in the heavens and that on the earth —
11 in Him in Whom our lot was cast also, being designated beforehand according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will,
12 that we should be for the laud of His glory, who are pre-expectant in the Christ.
13 In Whom you also — on hearing the word of truth, the evangel of your salvation — in Whom on believing also, you are sealed with the holy spirit of promise
14 (which is an earnest of the enjoyment of our allotment, to the deliverance of that which has been procured) for the laud of His glory!
15 Therefore, I also, on hearing of this faith of yours in the Lord Jesus, and that for all the saints,
16 do not cease giving thanks for you, making mention in my prayers
17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may be giving you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the realization of Him,
18 the eyes of your heart having been enlightened, for you to perceive what is the expectation of His calling, and what the riches of the glory of the enjoyment of His allotment among the saints,
19 and what the transcendent greatness of His power for us who are believing, in accord with the operation of the might of His strength,
20 which is operative in the Christ, rousing Him from among the dead and seating Him at His right hand among the celestials,
21 up over every sovereignty and authority and power and lordship, and every name that is named, not only in this eon, but also in that which is impending:
22 and subjects all under His feet, and gives Him, as Head over all, to the ecclesia which is His body, the complement of the One completing the all in all.Study this in detail, it will open your eyes to the truth. God is in complete control, we have no say in our salvation, He (God) is “operating ALL in accord with the councel of His will”. Note the last verse, He will be “All in all”.
Blessings, Jerry.
CO
i have read those verses ,and they can all be explain very clearly with what i have said previously.
the fact that at the end all will be all in God does, not eliminate our struggle for the past 6000 years,of cause God is in control and i am thankful for it.but the gospel is there for a reason,the test is there for a reason,the judgement to come is there for a reason,Christ dead is there for a reason,Gods patience is there for a reason,creation is there for a reason,
so CO if you explain all of it then i would understand it better.
Teraricca………..All these things you have mentioned are purposed by the ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD. Why do you think because GOD has created all things and predestined all things some how means we don't have to struggle in life He created that also. You seem to be trying to make GOD into your own Image of Him.
I use the King James version, but have several translations and a Greek Leaner , as well as E-SWORD on my computer which has about ten or so translations on it.
peace and love to you and your…………………….gene
Quote (terraricca @ April 13 2010,18:12) CO i have read those verses ,and they can all be explain very clearly with what i have said previously.
the fact that at the end all will be all in God does, not eliminate our struggle for the past 6000 years,of cause God is in control and i am thankful for it.but the gospel is there for a reason,the test is there for a reason,the judgement to come is there for a reason,Christ dead is there for a reason,Gods patience is there for a reason,creation is there for a reason,
so CO if you explain all of it then i would understand it better.
terraricca.
Salvation in Christ is not “the greatest bargain in all the universe,” for it is not a bargain at all. It is neither cheap nor expensive. It is free. We need not be “willing to pay the price,” for there is no price to pay. Christ paid it all. He was made sin; God condemned sin in the flesh in the sacrifice of His Son (2 Cor.5:21; Rom.8:3).
Salvation is not a reward for having done the right thing, or for “meeting conditions.” As with Abraham (Rom.4:16-21), our faith reveals to us what is already true, concerning what God has promised. It gives us assurance.
“God, Who saves us and calls us with a holy calling,” has promised to glorify and conform to the image of His Son, all those whom He chose “in accord with His own purpose and the grace which is given to us in Christ Jesus before times eonian;” this evangel “now is being manifested” (2 Tim.1:9,10). “Now you, brethren, as Isaac, are children of promise” (Gal.4:28; cf Rom.9:9-11). This is the gospel—not some offer of a way to escape “Hell.”
The customary “invitation” or “altar call” of today is simply a vain tradition of men (cf Mark 7:8). Since it “gets results,” it is used. Through it many become converts to the “Christian religion.” The number of those from among such throngs whom God Himself has already chosen is known to Him, not ourselves. Such popular techniques are based upon the false idea which has well been termed, “decisional regeneration.”
However, such presentations are not faithful ones. For Christ is to be announced and proclaimed, not offered as a “great opportunity” (cp Acts 13:38,39). This is to be done so that, “whoever were set for life eonian” (Acts 13:48; cf Eph.1:3-6) may believe “through grace” (Acts 18:27; cf Rom.10:14,15). “Yahweh, our Elohim, You are the Setter of welfare on the hearthstones for us, For, moreover, You contrive all our doings for us” (Isa.26:12).Copied from the Concordant Publishing Concern.
Jerry.
Quote (chosenone @ April 14 2010,17:27) Quote (terraricca @ April 13 2010,18:12) CO i have read those verses ,and they can all be explain very clearly with what i have said previously.
the fact that at the end all will be all in God does, not eliminate our struggle for the past 6000 years,of cause God is in control and i am thankful for it.but the gospel is there for a reason,the test is there for a reason,the judgement to come is there for a reason,Christ dead is there for a reason,Gods patience is there for a reason,creation is there for a reason,
so CO if you explain all of it then i would understand it better.
terraricca.
Salvation in Christ is not “the greatest bargain in all the universe,” for it is not a bargain at all. It is neither cheap nor expensive. It is free. We need not be “willing to pay the price,” for there is no price to pay. Christ paid it all. He was made sin; God condemned sin in the flesh in the sacrifice of His Son (2 Cor.5:21; Rom.8:3).
Salvation is not a reward for having done the right thing, or for “meeting conditions.” As with Abraham (Rom.4:16-21), our faith reveals to us what is already true, concerning what God has promised. It gives us assurance.
“God, Who saves us and calls us with a holy calling,” has promised to glorify and conform to the image of His Son, all those whom He chose “in accord with His own purpose and the grace which is given to us in Christ Jesus before times eonian;” this evangel “now is being manifested” (2 Tim.1:9,10). “Now you, brethren, as Isaac, are children of promise” (Gal.4:28; cf Rom.9:9-11). This is the gospel—not some offer of a way to escape “Hell.”
The customary “invitation” or “altar call” of today is simply a vain tradition of men (cf Mark 7:8). Since it “gets results,” it is used. Through it many become converts to the “Christian religion.” The number of those from among such throngs whom God Himself has already chosen is known to Him, not ourselves. Such popular techniques are based upon the false idea which has well been termed, “decisional regeneration.”
However, such presentations are not faithful ones. For Christ is to be announced and proclaimed, not offered as a “great opportunity” (cp Acts 13:38,39). This is to be done so that, “whoever were set for life eonian” (Acts 13:48; cf Eph.1:3-6) may believe “through grace” (Acts 18:27; cf Rom.10:14,15). “Yahweh, our Elohim, You are the Setter of welfare on the hearthstones for us, For, moreover, You contrive all our doings for us” (Isa.26:12).Copied from the Concordant Publishing Concern.
Jerry.
Chosenone…………I agree with this also. Jesus even said out of the twelve apostles he chose he lost none except Judas the one that was destined for that. GOD the Father does not loose those He choses ever. Self salvation by self Choice is a false teaching of the Mystery Religion. Those who at this time are chosen by GOD are those He predestined for that purpose , to be the first fruits of His from among men. GOD the Father is the chooser sustainer and the perfecter of all he chooses . NO ONE WILL EVER BE ABLE TO BOAST ABOUT THEIR SALVATION, THAT IS WHY IT IS BY GRACE WE ARE SAVED. IMOpeace and love to you and yours……………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 15 2010,03:36) Quote (chosenone @ April 14 2010,17:27) Quote (terraricca @ April 13 2010,18:12) CO i have read those verses ,and they can all be explain very clearly with what i have said previously.
the fact that at the end all will be all in God does, not eliminate our struggle for the past 6000 years,of cause God is in control and i am thankful for it.but the gospel is there for a reason,the test is there for a reason,the judgement to come is there for a reason,Christ dead is there for a reason,Gods patience is there for a reason,creation is there for a reason,
so CO if you explain all of it then i would understand it better.
terraricca.
Salvation in Christ is not “the greatest bargain in all the universe,” for it is not a bargain at all. It is neither cheap nor expensive. It is free. We need not be “willing to pay the price,” for there is no price to pay. Christ paid it all. He was made sin; God condemned sin in the flesh in the sacrifice of His Son (2 Cor.5:21; Rom.8:3).
Salvation is not a reward for having done the right thing, or for “meeting conditions.” As with Abraham (Rom.4:16-21), our faith reveals to us what is already true, concerning what God has promised. It gives us assurance.
“God, Who saves us and calls us with a holy calling,” has promised to glorify and conform to the image of His Son, all those whom He chose “in accord with His own purpose and the grace which is given to us in Christ Jesus before times eonian;” this evangel “now is being manifested” (2 Tim.1:9,10). “Now you, brethren, as Isaac, are children of promise” (Gal.4:28; cf Rom.9:9-11). This is the gospel—not some offer of a way to escape “Hell.”
The customary “invitation” or “altar call” of today is simply a vain tradition of men (cf Mark 7:8). Since it “gets results,” it is used. Through it many become converts to the “Christian religion.” The number of those from among such throngs whom God Himself has already chosen is known to Him, not ourselves. Such popular techniques are based upon the false idea which has well been termed, “decisional regeneration.”
However, such presentations are not faithful ones. For Christ is to be announced and proclaimed, not offered as a “great opportunity” (cp Acts 13:38,39). This is to be done so that, “whoever were set for life eonian” (Acts 13:48; cf Eph.1:3-6) may believe “through grace” (Acts 18:27; cf Rom.10:14,15). “Yahweh, our Elohim, You are the Setter of welfare on the hearthstones for us, For, moreover, You contrive all our doings for us” (Isa.26:12).Copied from the Concordant Publishing Concern.
Jerry.
Chosenone…………I agree with this also. Jesus even said out of the twelve apostles he chose he lost none except Judas the one that was destined for that. GOD the Father does not loose those He choses ever. Self salvation by self Choice is a false teaching of the Mystery Religion. Those who at this time are chosen by GOD are those He predestined for that purpose , to be the first fruits of His from among men. GOD the Father is the chooser sustainer and the perfecter of all he chooses . NO ONE WILL EVER BE ABLE TO BOAST ABOUT THEIR SALVATION, THAT IS WHY IT IS BY GRACE WE ARE SAVED. IMOpeace and love to you and yours……………….gene
generead this;;Heb 12:14 Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
Heb 12:15 See to it that no one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile manyis this in Gods hands or the believers hand
?I believe Evil and Sin are two completely different things.
Sin is going against God.
Evil is bringing about pain or sorrow.
God surely created Good and Evil, but he did not create sin.
To me, it seems that sin is a bi-product of giving creation independant will.
So much so that we have the choice to go AGAINST God himself.
And when that happens we call it sin.
—————————————————-
When god brings about evil, it is righteous evil.
There's nothing wrong with evil.It's needed to know good…(constructive)
But sin is a factor that always brings about evil in
a destructive manner.When someone dies, it can be viewed as an evil thing coming against them, when in actuallity it is natural and part of life.
When someone steals, that is a sin that brings about a destrictive evil (pain, sorrow, discomfort).
Yet if God punishes you, it is evil done to you but no sin involved.
Understand God sovereignty.
Job said ” If we can received good from God, why not evil?”
After he lost all his wealth and family.It was righteous evil because God is Sovereign…but in no way did God SIN against Job…it's impossible for God to sin (sin is anti-God).
O and as far as creating the Devil.
Yes God created evil ones.
People who will bring about pain and suffering.
It's all part of the process to weed out the the just from the unjust.
Just because God made someone for evil doesn't mean they themselves are going to hell.
Look at it like this, you have a family member who's addicted to drugs.
That family member can be a devout christian battling drug addiction.
To the world, that member is evil in the sense that everything around him brings about pain and sorrow to his family….the choices he makes and situations he gets into.
But personally he is sinless.
—————————–
Better picture…the guy goes missing for 3 days because he's drugged up.He's committing no sins, yet his deeds are evil towards his family because he's hurting them with his actions.
Or when a loan officer declines your mortgage loan even though he knows you have no place to stay.
His deed is evil, but he's not committing a sin.
If someone was made for evil, I believe he is made to bring about sorrow and pain…but like i said, that person may not be consciously in control of how he/she relates to the world.
And can personally be a righteous person.
RokkaMan,
A very good post, I agree with your version, but not completely. Of course we all have our different beliefs, and yours is close to what I concider the truth. It is true God cannot sin, when He uses evil it is for His purpose and is not sin, it is to complete His will, which is to become “ALL IN ALL”. (1Cor.15:28)God Bless, Jerry.
Rockman………Good points, Evil causes us to understand what good is and good causes to understand what evil is. God created both good and evil. The understanding of them both is an interocular part of life. Evil is even in the nature of all animals including man, and God can remove it at any time he choses to, as He does in the 1000 year period of Christ and the Saints rule coming on the earth soon. Even the nature of the animals will be changed at that time scripture shows.
Folks who believe in so-called “FREE” Will theology hate that idea, because they want their righteousness to be based on their own selves, this pumps their EGO'S. But Scripture Shows true righteousness is a (CREATION) of GOD in US and is not of ourselves.
peace and love to you and yours…………….gene
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