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Okay so this was something that I was really struggling with. And it dawned on me, I didn't even know the definition of fornication to begin with. It makes sense that I can't flee from something I know next to nothing about.
Here's the definition from dictionary.com “–noun
1. voluntary sexual intercourse between two unmarried persons or two persons not married to each other.”Here's the definition that somebody told me: “Fornication is having sexual intercourse with no emotional attachment” The person who told me had knowledge of the bible.
Basically the second definition implies that its okay to have sex as long as you actually feel something for the person.
Though I realized most recently this second definition has to be TOTALLY wrong. The bad part is that, I'd accepted that 2nd definition for a while and just went on doing what I wanted to as long as I felt that I loved the person, if it was anything less than love and my heart wasn't set on it, I wouldn't do it.
I need a bit of clarity. How can you even stop yourself from committing it? It seems that with lust particularly, when its in your face, you forget everything that you'd ever learned that says 'don't do it'.
What does a biblical dictionary describe fornication to be? I went to look for scriptures and I've found verses that use the word, but my context clues seem to elude me.
In the meantime, I've repented and find myself too busy trying to learn the Word and the works of the enemy rather than dwelling on certain thoughts.
Another thing that gets really iffy is that some people define sex as anything involving the reproductive organs at all, while some people don't consider oral or even masturbation to be sex at all.
Where do you cross the line to where it becomes fornication?
One last thing; does a person have to repent if they are raped? It's involuntary, but its still intercourse nonetheless.
Beloved
Any kind of immoral sexual behavior is considered fornication, not only intercourse; for that matter, even married people can fornicate.
Being raped is not fornicating, its a crime.Georg
Quote (Beloved @ Nov. 11 2009,05:33) Okay so this was something that I was really struggling with. And it dawned on me, I didn't even know the definition of fornication to begin with. It makes sense that I can't flee from something I know next to nothing about. Here's the definition from dictionary.com “–noun
1. voluntary sexual intercourse between two unmarried persons or two persons not married to each other.”Here's the definition that somebody told me: “Fornication is having sexual intercourse with no emotional attachment” The person who told me had knowledge of the bible.
Basically the second definition implies that its okay to have sex as long as you actually feel something for the person.
Though I realized most recently this second definition has to be TOTALLY wrong. The bad part is that, I'd accepted that 2nd definition for a while and just went on doing what I wanted to as long as I felt that I loved the person, if it was anything less than love and my heart wasn't set on it, I wouldn't do it.
I need a bit of clarity. How can you even stop yourself from committing it? It seems that with lust particularly, when its in your face, you forget everything that you'd ever learned that says 'don't do it'.
What does a biblical dictionary describe fornication to be? I went to look for scriptures and I've found verses that use the word, but my context clues seem to elude me.
In the meantime, I've repented and find myself too busy trying to learn the Word and the works of the enemy rather than dwelling on certain thoughts.
Another thing that gets really iffy is that some people define sex as anything involving the reproductive organs at all, while some people don't consider oral or even masturbation to be sex at all.
Where do you cross the line to where it becomes fornication?
The Bible outlines Fornication as forbidden sexual practices being unmarried is not in that list, however marriage is really when you love someone and take them for your partner(Spouse)Fornication includes… Incest, Sex with your aunts, uncles, grandparents, rape, homosexuality, bestiality, adultery…etc.
I think the person was explaining to you that you should not engage in intercourse for the “fun” of it, If you take it seriously you would be married from the moment you “know”(Intercourse) them.
(23) Say: the things that my Lord hath indeed forbidden are: shameful deeds, whether open or secret; sins and trespasses against truth or reason; assigning of partners to Allah, for which He hath given no authority; and saying things about Allah of which ye have no knowledge.
( سورة الأعراف , Al-Araf, Chapter #7, Verse #33)By the way even prostitution that is occurring out of force or neccessity of survival is looked at as a failing of those who cause the condition and not the prostitute.
Quote From Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary [easton]: Fornication in every form of it was sternly condemned by the Mosaic law (Lev. 21:9; 19:29; Deut. 22:20, 21, 23-29; 23:18; Ex. 22:16). (See {ADULTERY}.) But this word is more frequently used in a symbolical than in its ordinary sense. It frequently means a forsaking of God or a following after idols (Isa. 1:2; Jer. 2:20; Ezek. 16; Hos. 1:2; 2:1-5; Jer. 3:8,9).
Beloved,
I have a similar confession to make. Before I was born again I had very loose morals including lust and adultery. Once I became a new creature in Jesus (knowing nothing of the don'ts) I found I went from not being able to resist any sexual temptation to without any struggle adverting my eyes from the least temptation, I rejoiced it was such a freedom. But as I sought to learn what being a christian was all about, I read a book from a “man of God” that lust is normal, and to be honest I wanted it to be so (a dog will return to its vomit) and while I never committed adultery since or even allowed a desire to dwell, I allowed myself to be tempted to feed my lust to ever increasing levels for years and only by the grace of God did it remain only in my heart and not followed through.I struggled for years and it wasn't until 20 years latter I began shutting the doors to temptation (no TV while on the road, stay away from the beach, etc.) that I began to once again overcome lust by avoiding temptation. What God had given me at my salvation (freedom from lust) I have struggled with now for decades and still have not achieved that same level of freedom. I often wonder if I would have saved myself all that struggle if I would have rejected that lie all those years ago.
Quote
12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation; for when he hath been approved, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord promised to them that love him. 13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempteth no man:I believe that it is the overcoming of temptations which will be rewarded and just to be clear as shown in the scripture above, it is not God causing the temptations, most like I did bring it on themselves.
As to where do you cross the line, if you doubt it is a sin but even if you don't doubt it can still be a sin, read the word (over and over) and if you feel what your doing puts a wall between you and the Father then that's a good indicator that you've crossed that line.
I hope this helps I hate to admit to my failings but God already knows them. One last thing it helps me to remember that the Father is hurt by our unintentional sins (which I believe to be “sins that do not lead to death”)and angered by intentional ones (“sins that lead to death”).
My Opinion – Wm
Beloved………Fornication is sexual relations outside Marriage, it is the destoryer of a true union relationship. When two people male and female meet and give themselves in sex they are satisfying the normal lust in them, However if this in not in a marriage , them they are violatine each other. GOD Created sex for procreation and man desire should be to his wife. This is a special part of being married, and becoming one with that person you are married to. Fornication can be sumed up as a fraud or a Lie, because it portrays a union that is false and lacks commitment. It is a sin of Falsehood. GOD hates it, because of what it does to one of the parities involved (generally the women) They give themselves to the man and when he is through with them he just dumps them out and goes after another, their hearts a broken and their lives are shattered, Fornication stresses the whole body also, because of the emotional attachment involved. “He who fornicates sin against his (OWN) body. People who practice sex outside of marriage are just running a shame and suffer from delusions, because their is no serious commitment, If a man is not willing to marry a women and visa verse they have no right to sex with each other, they just cheapen themselves, Fornicators are people who live a lie to their own heart or someone else, and practice lying as they try to seduce there pray, do not let anyone use you like that. Why should you suffer for some Phony anyway. This is one of, if not the biggest sin Today is fornication. See the ring get married , and (THEN) enjoy each other for the rest of you (COMMITTED LIVE) You will be greatly blessed. Don't be lead into a bunch of BS , by smooth talking lairs. Fornication simply put is (FALSEHOOD).
peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene
Quote (Beloved @ Nov. 11 2009,00:36) One last thing; does a person have to repent if they are raped? It's involuntary, but its still intercourse nonetheless.
An exception to the first definition of fornication is rape. That exception is included in the Law of Mosses. It may be the only exception if rape is interpreted to mean lack of consent.God expects you to control your own actions and gives you the power to do so. That power is reliant on faith and it is why each of us needs to pursue Jesus and therefore obey all his teachings. I will not say it is an easy path but it is rewarding if you persevere.
I have found that God has weaned me from some of my sins and still continues to wean me from others.
It is best to obtain and walk according to the Spirit of Righteousness.
Quote (Gene @ Nov. 11 2009,08:11) Beloved………Fornication is sexual relations outside Marriage, it is the destoryer of a true union relationship. When two people male and female meet and give themselves in sex they are satisfying the normal lust in them, However if this in not in a marriage , them they are violatine each other. GOD Created sex for procreation and man desire should be to his wife. This is a special part of being married, and becoming one with that person you are married to. Fornication can be sumed up as a fraud or a Lie, because it portrays a union that is false and lacks commitment. It is a sin of Falsehood. GOD hates it, because of what it does to one of the parities involved (generally the women) They give themselves to the man and when he is through with them he just dumps them out and goes after another, their hearts a broken and their lives are shattered, Fornication stresses the whole body also, because of the emotional attachment involved. “He who fornicates sin against his (OWN) body. People who practice sex outside of marriage are just running a shame and suffer from delusions, because their is no serious commitment, If a man is not willing to marry a women and visa verse they have no right to sex with each other, they just cheapen themselves, Fornicators are people who live a lie to their own heart or someone else, and practice lying as they try to seduce there pray, do not let anyone use you like that. Why should you suffer for some Phony anyway. This is one of, if not the biggest sin Today is fornication. See the ring get married , and (THEN) enjoy each other for the rest of you (COMMITTED LIVE) You will be greatly blessed. Don't be lead into a bunch of BS , by smooth talking lairs. Fornication simply put is (FALSEHOOD). peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene
The word certainly gives a sense of breaking and corrupting as those who were called spiritual fornicators by worshiping other gods as also in voluntary prostitution where there is no established relation thus the term PRO-stitution “before” + statuere “cause to stand, establish” that is why we PRo-pose
from pro- “forth” + poser “put, place” (see pose (v.1)). Meaning “make an offer of marriage“provided with a *mari,” a young woman,
from PIE base *meri- “young wife,” akin to *meryo- “young man”
Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2009,06:26) The Bible outlines Fornication as forbidden sexual practices being unmarried is not in that list, however marriage is really when you love someone and take them for your partner(Spouse) Fornication includes… Incest, Sex with your aunts, uncles, grandparents, rape, homosexuality, bestiality, adultery…etc.
I think the person was explaining to you that you should not engage in intercourse for the “fun” of it, If you take it seriously you would be married from the moment you “know”(Intercourse) them.
(23) Say: the things that my Lord hath indeed forbidden are: shameful deeds, whether open or secret; sins and trespasses against truth or reason; assigning of partners to Allah, for which He hath given no authority; and saying things about Allah of which ye have no knowledge.
( سورة الأعراف , Al-Araf, Chapter #7, Verse #33)By the way even prostitution that is occurring out of force or neccessity of survival is looked at as a failing of those who cause the condition and not the prostitute.
So you can do it, just preferably don't till marriage?To be frank, now that I have become a Christian, I feel very…unclean and condemned for not being a virgin. =\
Every time I hear of fornication I just think of absolutely everything one chooses to do outside of marriage. I know everyone isn't perfect, but the words are constantly in my face “don't have sex till marriage” and I can't help but think to myself 'Well its too late for me then.' It's not like I can become a virgin all over again.
And this is a little unrelated, but I know that violating children must be on that list.
I just heard that in my neighborhood a 10 year old girl had a baby. Turns out she was being molested and raped by her uncle. Would she also be a fornicator? It's already apparent that what her uncle did was totally wrong.
She is a child but when we reach certain ages, we begin to understand things.
Quote (Gene @ Nov. 11 2009,08:11) Beloved………Fornication is sexual relations outside Marriage, it is the destoryer of a true union relationship. When two people male and female meet and give themselves in sex they are satisfying the normal lust in them, However if this in not in a marriage , them they are violatine each other. GOD Created sex for procreation and man desire should be to his wife. This is a special part of being married, and becoming one with that person you are married to. Fornication can be sumed up as a fraud or a Lie, because it portrays a union that is false and lacks commitment. It is a sin of Falsehood. GOD hates it, because of what it does to one of the parities involved (generally the women) They give themselves to the man and when he is through with them he just dumps them out and goes after another, their hearts a broken and their lives are shattered, Fornication stresses the whole body also, because of the emotional attachment involved. “He who fornicates sin against his (OWN) body. People who practice sex outside of marriage are just running a shame and suffer from delusions, because their is no serious commitment, If a man is not willing to marry a women and visa verse they have no right to sex with each other, they just cheapen themselves, Fornicators are people who live a lie to their own heart or someone else, and practice lying as they try to seduce there pray, do not let anyone use you like that. Why should you suffer for some Phony anyway. This is one of, if not the biggest sin Today is fornication. See the ring get married , and (THEN) enjoy each other for the rest of you (COMMITTED LIVE) You will be greatly blessed. Don't be lead into a bunch of BS , by smooth talking lairs. Fornication simply put is (FALSEHOOD). peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene
If God hates it, as in the action, then would he hate the fornicator?I understand what you mean by the falsehood and of smooth talking liars. There's way too many smooth talking liars out there and I've come across them and can usually see their game and say no.
However, it was my thought that marriage was a man made ceremony. And that which man makes may not necessarily line up with God. I'm not saying anything bad about marriage. In fact it sounds like a wonderful thing and I would like to get married someday, but think about how people take what you said and run with it, using it to hurt and condemn others in a place that hurts them inside.
I heard about a girl who was going to get married, she was engaged and really happy with her fiance. They had a sexless relationship. They planned their wedding and sent out the invitations. Then, before they were married, it was the MAN who asked his wife to be “are you a virgin?” and when she said no, he called of everything and left her. So who in that sense was the one who was deceived? The man looking for a virgin wife or the girl who thought she was going to be married and commit herself to one person? Or where they both deceived? I don't think the girl was delusional at all and she was brutally hurt by someone she loved for being honest, upfront, and truthful.
It's not always smooth talking liars and phonies that make the choice to sleep with somebody. I, for one, am not a smooth talking liar. <.<
I'm not opposing what you said because I was told something interesting once. That when you have sex with someone, you're binding your soul with them and a part of their spirit gets into you and a part of your spirit gets into them. Which is why I stopped doing anything to begin with [after I heard this from a preacher]. I know I wouldn't want to bind myself with the wrong kind of person.
At the same time, I heard that there's no such thing as a 'perfect' candidate for being a spouse out there for you. There's no “one” lover [as the world calls it, THE ONE] out there made just for you. And that you can make a marriage work with anyone. It's all in the mindset and how you treat one another.
Beloved………Where did i say “God hated the person” no God loves the person that is why He hates the (ACT) of fornication, because of what it produces in the persons life. This false relationship causes great harm and grief, some people even commit suicide because of the disillusionment involved. As far as the example you gave if the young lady know her future husband wanted a virgin , she should have told him long before the marriage. A good relationship is a honest and forth right one, be honest and expect those in a relationship to be honest with you also, (NO) in fact demand it, why give yourself over to falsehood and suffer as a result of it. You have every right to expect honesty in your relationships, an intimate relationship is (NOT) a Game of human hearts. To fornicate is to live a lie rather with GOD or Man. A fornicator sin against his or her own self and will suffer instability because of it. IMO
peace and love to you and your…………….gene
Quote (Gene @ Nov. 12 2009,03:43) Beloved………Where did i say “God hated the person” no God loves the person that is why He hates the (ACT) of fornication, because of what it produces in the persons life. This false relationship causes great harm and grief, some people even commit suicide because of the disillusionment involved. As far as the example you gave if the young lady know her future husband wanted a virgin , she should have told him long before the marriage. A good relationship is a honest and forth right one, be honest and expect those in a relationship to be honest with you also, (NO) in fact demand it, why give yourself over to falsehood and suffer as a result of it. You have every right to expect honesty in your relationships, an intimate relationship is (NOT) a Game of human hearts. To fornicate is to live a lie rather with GOD or Man. A fornicator sin against his or her own self and will suffer instability because of it. IMO peace and love to you and your…………….gene
I know you didn't say God hated the person. I was only asking if He would. And now I clearly see that he doesn't.I remembered that there's a difference between what God feels as our Father, and consequences to our own actions.
The young lady didn't know, which was why I brought it up. It's very true, they'd have skipped a lot of their issues if the question was asked a lot earlier than after they planned their wedding. That's what I thought when I first heard of it. Though I was using the true story to back up that people use fornication as one of the main reasons to hurt others, even if they don't commit it.
People do most of these things to themselves.
Most of the time it is falsehood. Especially in the times that we live in today. You can hardly trust anyone in this world. Which is a reason I choose to trust the Father and His son.
Fornication is also used in the context of talking about idol worshipers too?
Quote (Beloved @ Nov. 12 2009,04:40) Though I was using the true story to back up that people use fornication as one of the main reasons to hurt others, even if they don't commit it.
What I mean by saying this is, people use fornication as a mean reason to condemn others.But who are we to judge when God is the judge?
Quote (Beloved @ Nov. 12 2009,01:28) Speaking on condemning, I don't mean you personally. I've just seen many Christians do this.
How do you define condemnation?God instructs us to rebuke our brothers and sisters for their sins or to be held guilty.
Too many accuse those that justly rebuke them of condemning them in order to justify their sin. That is not how Jesus teaches us to respond to a just rebuke. Instead we should fight the desire to defend ourself and instead except the rebuke hoping that it serves its purpose to bring about a harvest of righteousness.
If the rebuke is unjust then another response may well be appropriate.
Changing one's ways and doing right is not easy but it is possible as God will be with you as you truly persevere in seeking him. I know that I have had many lessons as God has worked on my stubborn heart. I also know that he has moved mountains in changing my heart. I am confident he will do it for you as well if you seek him with all your heart.
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 12 2009,08:51) Quote (Beloved @ Nov. 12 2009,01:28) Speaking on condemning, I don't mean you personally. I've just seen many Christians do this.
How do you define condemnation?God instructs us to rebuke our brothers and sisters for their sins or to be held guilty.
Too many accuse those that justly rebuke them of condemning them in order to justify their sin. That is not how Jesus teaches us to respond to a just rebuke. Instead we should fight the desire to defend ourself and instead except the rebuke hoping that it serves its purpose to bring about a harvest of righteousness.
If the rebuke is unjust then another response may well be appropriate.
Changing one's ways and doing right is not easy but it is possible as God will be with you as you truly persevere in seeking him. I know that I have had many lessons as God has worked on my stubborn heart. I also know that he has moved mountains in changing my heart. I am confident he will do it for you as well if you seek him with all your heart.
Ah. I personally think there's a difference between letting someone know when they've done something wrong and not listening to them at all and shouting radical accusations.That is how I define condemnation.
Acting radical towards another, not even bothering to listening to what others have to say. Practically screaming and ranting at people because they've told you something that you personally don't like. Continuously pointing the finger of blame and offering no solution, just accusing.
Beloved ………avoiding fornication prevents you or anyone else from a lot of heart ach and sorrow, GOD want us all to live happy and secure in our relationships. Why should anyone commit there Hearts to a user and phony person, Who's only goal is to use someone for there personal satisfaction outside of a true and faithful commitment, it is a wast of time and produces heart ache and pain and suffering. Fornication is a great evil in GOD'S eyes, rather between Him and a person , or between men and women. It is simply (FALSEHOOD) a PHONY RELATIONSHIP. All fornicators will recieve there portion in the lake of FIRE (intense judgments) of GOD. Belove don't allow no body to us you that way that type of relationship just not worth it, You have every right to expect honesty and sincerity and commitment in your relationship. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene
Quote (Beloved @ Nov. 12 2009,04:59) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 12 2009,08:51) Quote (Beloved @ Nov. 12 2009,01:28) Speaking on condemning, I don't mean you personally. I've just seen many Christians do this.
How do you define condemnation?God instructs us to rebuke our brothers and sisters for their sins or to be held guilty.
Too many accuse those that justly rebuke them of condemning them in order to justify their sin. That is not how Jesus teaches us to respond to a just rebuke. Instead we should fight the desire to defend ourself and instead except the rebuke hoping that it serves its purpose to bring about a harvest of righteousness.
If the rebuke is unjust then another response may well be appropriate.
Changing one's ways and doing right is not easy but it is possible as God will be with you as you truly persevere in seeking him. I know that I have had many lessons as God has worked on my stubborn heart. I also know that he has moved mountains in changing my heart. I am confident he will do it for you as well if you seek him with all your heart.
Ah. I personally think there's a difference between letting someone know when they've done something wrong and not listening to them at all and shouting radical accusations.That is how I define condemnation.
Acting radical towards another, not even bothering to listening to what others have to say. Practically screaming and ranting at people because they've told you something that you personally don't like. Continuously pointing the finger of blame and offering no solution, just accusing.
I do not know about condemnation but what you describe certainly sounds like a lack of anger management which is in itself a sin. As students of Jesus the Anointed One we are instructed to be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to anger. I myself struggle to obey those commands every day and know that in time God will change me to be in complete compliance with his love if I persevere in seeking him.Condemnation has several definitions and of those it is a sin to render judgment, as regards salvation, on your neighbor. Rendering a judgment against a criminal in a court of law is not a sin. On the other hand if you fail to hope that criminal will change it is as sin.
1 Corinthians 13:4-7(NIV) reads:
Quote Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Fornication:
All Fornication is Spiritual: Whether it is:
Of “illicit sexual intercourse,” in Jhn 8:41; Act 15:20, 29; 21:25; 1Cr 5:1; 6:13, 18; 2Cr 12:21; Gal 5:19; Eph 5:3; Col 3:5; 1Th 4:3; Rev 2:21; 9:21; in the plural in 1Cr 7:2; in Mat 5:32; 19:9 it stands for, or includes, adultery; it is distinguished from it in Mat 15:19; Mar 7:21;
Or, a strengthened form of No. 1 (ek, used intensively), “to give oneself up to fornication,” implying excessive indulgence, Jud 1:7.
Or, metaphorically, of “the association of pagan idolatry with doctrines of, and professed adherence to, the Christian faith,” Rev 14:8; 17:2, 4; 18:3; 19:2; some suggest this as the sense in Rev 2:21; Rev 17:2; 18:3, 9.
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 11 2009,22:37) Fornication: All Fornication is Spiritual: Whether it is:
Of “illicit sexual intercourse,” in Jhn 8:41; Act 15:20, 29; 21:25; 1Cr 5:1; 6:13, 18; 2Cr 12:21; Gal 5:19; Eph 5:3; Col 3:5; 1Th 4:3; Rev 2:21; 9:21; in the plural in 1Cr 7:2; in Mat 5:32; 19:9 it stands for, or includes, adultery; it is distinguished from it in Mat 15:19; Mar 7:21;
Or, a strengthened form of No. 1 (ek, used intensively), “to give oneself up to fornication,” implying excessive indulgence, Jud 1:7.
Or, metaphorically, of “the association of pagan idolatry with doctrines of, and professed adherence to, the Christian faith,” Rev 14:8; 17:2, 4; 18:3; 19:2; some suggest this as the sense in Rev 2:21; Rev 17:2; 18:3, 9.
Also in my last post, I mentioned “adultery” this is not defined as a physical aspect but also as a spiritual one.
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