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Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 04 2011,16:36) irene pay attention to gen;1;1 and see what it says GOD CREATED THE HEAVEN ,AND THE EARTH but the heaven was created first then the earth ,and the heaven is not the sky what it is ,this is the heaven of God ,pay attention to what is written into the days of creation,
so when it says that God will shake the heaven he talks about his heaven not our sky
does this ring a bell??
Pierre
pierre! Maybe you need to pay attention what it says in Rev. 19….. Jesus will come and smite the nations with the wrath of God…Periled… You and others can say whatever you think…. Scriptures tell us what is, going to happen…… The Saints will walk on the ashes of the wicked..,..If God will do away with the earth and create a new earth is in question….. God created the earth in Genesis and will not create again… I am not twisting the Scripture at all…but. confirming them…..lately you been acting like you know it all, making me look like I don't know nothing… and truthfully I am very tired of your attitude….Irene
Quote so when it says that God will shake the heaven he talks about his heaven not our sky
Yet the Scripture says this, which you gave us….
HAG 2:6 “For thus says the LORD of hosts, ‘ Once more in a little while, I am going to shake the heavens and the earth, the sea also and the dry land.
You see in Rev. 21 it tells us that there will be no more seas.l…which goes along with this Scripture….
Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 04 2011,20:28) God has the power to know at any second how many hairs you have on your head. God has the power to cross 7 universes and 9 Galaxys in a nanosecond. God has the power to die and rise from the grave. God can completely renew the earth while we watch, and we can dwell on a brand new world without sin. God can sterilize this world with Fire, like John the baptist said he is going to. “The wheat will be gathered into his barn, and the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire” The polluted defiled world is ripe for cleansing. The plagues from revalations are going to happen, and it says the islands will flee and the mountains will fall. Also in Daniel it says that the stone not hewn from anything will strike the statue and it will fall fine as chaff on the threshing floor and the wind will blow it away…… God can do anything, nothing is impossible with God. 
but some have become victims of those who twist scripture to fit what they believe, and teach others to believe. You can make the scriptures say anything you want, if you twist them enough, but it doesn't change the truth. Here is the truth-
” His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.”
Because in this case I feel this is happended concerning the End, because it is in scripture in many places about the earths present form end many times. One of the plainest is this-
”
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.[a]11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.”
It doesn't say “renewed”, it says new. It doesnt say the elements will be re-used, it says they will MELT. Also in Enoch it talks about the mountains melting like wax before the flame. Think about it.
Mark! Did you read what it says in Malachi 4? The Saints will walk on the ashes of the wicked…. If God had taken the old earth away, then the ashes would not be there…But He did not….Yes, the element will melt, but the surface is still there….with ashes on them..and the Saints will walk on them….. That is what Malachi says So the Scriptures do not contradict themselves….I am not twisting any Scripture… Rev. does talk about a new earth and a new heaven…. Mark, whats wrong with the old heavens??? Nothing…
Also do you believe that in Genesis God first created the heavens and the earth? Why would God create a void and dark place? Think about it… would the Angels shouted for joy at the dark and void place… I don't believe so…. Satan was here to take care of the earth and traveled back and forth to heaven…. when he sinned, he had no more exist to heaven… and is the God of this world…Quote
His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.”That my friend can go for all Human kind, accusations are never good to make Mark, you only hurt yourself by doing so… Just like you try to take down the JW…..
What happened to you, I recall a very sweet guy in the past, but lately all you do is accuse others.,… I am responding to that,,,, I wish you stop…————-Oh Irene. I am not taking anyone down. I say what I do not agree with. I do the same thing with my church. You do too. You have said some very bad things about me and my church, what I have said does not come close to the judgements you have thrown at me. The pope is not the anti-christ. You say he is. the RCC is not Babylon. You say it is. You never found an official document showing that the title in your article showing the inscription on the tiera was true. You can't because it isn't. That's taking a church down, and you accuse me of doing it.
. Well, what I have been saying all along is coming to pass, and the do-do is about to hit the fan in the middle east, and hopefully Jesus will come and straighten all out. Then we will be one flock, with one shepherd. It won't happen any other way. I can't wait. Peace and love Irene-MarkQuote (Pastry @ Nov. 04 2011,21:52) Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 04 2011,20:28) God has the power to know at any second how many hairs you have on your head. God has the power to cross 7 universes and 9 Galaxys in a nanosecond. God has the power to die and rise from the grave. God can completely renew the earth while we watch, and we can dwell on a brand new world without sin. God can sterilize this world with Fire, like John the baptist said he is going to. “The wheat will be gathered into his barn, and the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire” The polluted defiled world is ripe for cleansing. The plagues from revalations are going to happen, and it says the islands will flee and the mountains will fall. Also in Daniel it says that the stone not hewn from anything will strike the statue and it will fall fine as chaff on the threshing floor and the wind will blow it away…… God can do anything, nothing is impossible with God. but some have become victims of those who twist scripture to fit what they believe, and teach others to believe. You can make the scriptures say anything you want, if you twist them enough, but it doesn't change the truth. Here is the truth-
” His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.”
Because in this case I feel this is happended concerning the End, because it is in scripture in many places about the earths present form end many times. One of the plainest is this-
”
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.[a]11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.”
It doesn't say “renewed”, it says new. It doesnt say the elements will be re-used, it says they will MELT. Also in Enoch it talks about the mountains melting like wax before the flame. Think about it.
Mark! Did you read what it says in Malachi 4? The Saints will walk on the ashes of the wicked…. If God had taken the old earth away, then the ashes would not be there…But He did not….Yes, the element will melt, but the surface is still there….with ashes on them..and the Saints will walk on them….. That is what Malachi says So the Scriptures do not contradict themselves….I am not twisting any Scripture… Rev. does talk about a new earth and a new heaven…. Mark, whats wrong with the old heavens??? Nothing…
Also do you believe that in Genesis God first created the heavens and the earth? Why would God create a void and dark place? Think about it… would the Angels shouted for joy at the dark and void place… I don't believe so…. Satan was here to take care of the earth and traveled back and forth to heaven…. when he sinned, he had no more exist to heaven… and is the God of this world…Quote
His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.”That my friend can go for all Human kind, accusations are never good to make Mark, you only hurt yourself by doing so… Just like you try to take down the JW…..
What happened to you, I recall a very sweet guy in the past, but lately all you do is accuse others.,… I am responding to that,,,, I wish you stop…————-
Also, when you burn something with intense heat, it becomes sterilized. Undefiled. To walk on the ashes of the wicked would be in line with the earth being completely consumed by fire and destroyed, re-created, and the redeemed being re-born in a new undefiled world, and walk on the ashes of the wicked. Nothing is impossible with God.Irene,
I was reading the paper this morning and I thought about your comment-
Quote Mark, whats wrong with the old heavens??? Nothing… Well, this was in the paper this morning-
“The world pumped about 564 million more tons (512 million metric tons) of carbon into the air in 2010 than it did in 2009. That’s an increase of 6 percent. That amount of extra pollution eclipses the individual emissions of all but three countries — China, the United States and India, the world’s top producers of greenhouse gases.
It is a “monster” increase that is unheard of, said Gregg Marland, a professor of geology at Appalachian State University, who has helped calculate Department of Energy figures in the past.
Extra pollution in China and the U.S. account for more than half the increase in emissions last year, Marland said.
Chinese emissions now exceed ours by a whopping 50%. They will be double ours by 2010 if they keep on their rapacious, immoral path of weekly coal-plant building — and we keep on our rapacious, immoral path of doing nothing.”
See Irene? That's what is wrong with the old heavens. They have HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF TONS OF CRAP being belched into them every year, and it's getting worse, in the name of money and expansion. There is no way to stop it. We are so close if not past the point of no return. Meaning that even if we stop greenhouse gasses totally, the damage is done and results immiment. Did ya'll get any of the immense snow last year? Records on record broken? The dad gum river got to 40 here and washed out whole sections and communities. They even had to dynamite the levees in places to prevent total failure. This year doesn't look any better. I'm just sayin'……….
Isaiah 51:6 ” Though the heavens grow thin like smoke, the earth wears out like a garment, and it's inhabitants die like flies, My salvation shall remain forever”
Isaiah 24
The LORD’s Devastation of the Earth
1 See, the LORD is going to lay waste the earth
and devastate it;
he will ruin its face
and scatter its inhabitants—
2 it will be the same
for priest as for people,
for the master as for his servant,
for the mistress as for her servant,
for seller as for buyer,
for borrower as for lender,
for debtor as for creditor.
3 The earth will be completely laid waste
and totally plundered.
The LORD has spoken this word.
4 The earth dries up and withers,
the world languishes and withers,
the heavens languish with the earth.
5 The earth is defiled by its people;
they have disobeyed the laws,
violated the statutes
and broken the everlasting covenant.
6 Therefore a curse consumes the earth;
its people must bear their guilt.
Mal.4.
“For behold, the day comes, burning like an oven, when all the arrogant and all evildoers will be stubble; the day that comes shall burn them up, says the LORD of hosts, so that it will leave them neither root nor branch.
But for you who fear my name the sun of righteousness shall rise, with healing in its wings. You shall go forth leaping like calves from the stall.
And you shall tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet, on the day when I act, says the LORD of hosts.Daniel 3
2nd Peter 3While I'm at it (it's cold and wet outside, and I do NOT want to go to work
), this is what I believe is happening. The United states is Babylon now. complete with a Istar Idol (statue of liberty) and everything. The evil of materialism and Rock and Roll have been spread around the whole world, and the Godless have gained most of the control of this country. The Jews in Israel have aligned with this, and even have a shrine to Elvis complete with a Gold Statue of Elvis, touted as “The King”. VERY disrespectful and blasphemous to God. Now, justice and lamentation and woe are right on the horizon, and NOBODY is telling Israel what thier actions are bringing, which is being totally wiped out just like the maladiction of Moses states in the Old Testament. Nevermind the New Testament they deny, they defile the old one, and the consequences are coming. God doesn't have much reason for defending them. they protest petty things just like in Jesus' day, like opening a garage on the sabbath, BUT CANNOT SEE WHERE A GOLD IDOL OF “THE KING” does not incite God to wrath. The same “Apis Bull” was venerated and worshipped while Moses was getting the ten commandments, and it was worshipped in Memphis, Egypt. It is coming, “blazing like an oven” and all preachers and priest are “dumb dogs, not knowing how to bark”. That's why I think it won't get any better until Jesus comes and inagurates his true church. Peace, we'll soon find out…….Markhmm. But theres more.
Matthew 24:
Then if any one says to you, `Lo, here is the Christ!' or `There he is!' do not believe it.
For false Christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
Lo, I have told you beforehand.
So, if they say to you, `Lo, he is in the wilderness,' do not go out; if they say, `Lo, he is in the inner rooms,' do not believe it.
For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of man.
Wherever the body is (bodies are), *there the eagles will be gathered together (*Rev 19:17 …. ).…. “Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly in midheaven, “Come, gather for the great supper of God, to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, both small and great.”
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 04 2011,11:51) Quote (Pastry @ Nov. 04 2011,11:39) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 04 2011,10:27) Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 03 2011,06:55) Seems point blank to me. Yet Jehovahs witnesses say- “Earth will never be destroyed or depopulated Eccl. 1:4; Isa. 45:18; Ps. 78:69
Mark,Three years ago, when I decided to give up the drug and alcohol lifestyle I was living and devote myself to coming to know God, I asked a JW to study with me. On our second study, he brought up this point about the earth not being destroyed, but “cleansed” by God.
To me, that didn't agree with the scriptures (although I knew very little about the scriptures then), and I asked him why he didn't believe there would be a new heaven and a new earth – just like scripture says. His answer was, “Don't you think God can just refresh this earth? Why would He have to create a whole new one?”
That was our second and final Bible study. I did not want to study with someone who tried to justify why scriptural words were WRONG.
I agree with you on this point, Mark. I believe there will be a BRAND NEW heavens and a BRAND NEW earth. I understand the scriptural reasons they offer. Apparently in their minds, scriptures are contradicting each other, and so they're going with the lessor of two evils, so to speak. If they can call the new earth a “RENEWED earth”, then in their reasoning, scriptures aren't contradicting each other anymore.
But, do you want to know why I agree with you and not them on this point?
peace,
mike
Mike! If God wants to create a New Earth and a New Heaven He certainly will…. However inMal 4:1 ¶ For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts.
Mal 4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, [with] the statutes and judgments.
Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
Mal 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
Question, if God will destroy the Earth, and create a New one, how can the Saints walk on the ashes of the wicked?
Lets also look at those Scriopturess you Mike gave
Isa 45:18 ¶ For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I [am] the LORD; and [there is] none else.
Ecc 1:4 [One] generation passeth away, and [another] generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever
Psa 78:69 And he built his sanctuary like high [palaces], like the earth which he hath established for ever.
Those are very good Scriptures and I believe them…. God created he earth for forever… Rev. 21 is misleading… I believe He will renew the face of the earth… Just like God did before…. IMO Gid did not create a dark and void place, but a beautiful earth that all the Angels shouted for joy….Now that is my opinion…Peace and Love Irene
Hi Irene,Then you believe like the JWs on this matter. I agree with them on many subjects, but not on this one. Of course, this is the first time I've even discussed this subject at any length, and I haven't ever delved into it. As impossible as it sounds, I could be wrong!
But read what I told Mark about the words “for ever” in Eccl 1:4 and Ps 78:69. The Hebrew word used, “owlam”, doesn't mean “forever”. It means “for a long time”.
peace,
mike
Hi Mike,For the record I agree with the JW's and Irene on this one as well.
If you want to discuss this with me at greater length, let me know?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Pastry @ Nov. 05 2011,04:23) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 04 2011,16:36) irene pay attention to gen;1;1 and see what it says GOD CREATED THE HEAVEN ,AND THE EARTH but the heaven was created first then the earth ,and the heaven is not the sky what it is ,this is the heaven of God ,pay attention to what is written into the days of creation,
so when it says that God will shake the heaven he talks about his heaven not our sky
does this ring a bell??
Pierre
pierre! Maybe you need to pay attention what it says in Rev. 19….. Jesus will come and smite the nations with the wrath of God…Periled… You and others can say whatever you think…. Scriptures tell us what is, going to happen…… The Saints will walk on the ashes of the wicked..,..If God will do away with the earth and create a new earth is in question….. God created the earth in Genesis and will not create again… I am not twisting the Scripture at all…but. confirming them…..lately you been acting like you know it all, making me look like I don't know nothing… and truthfully I am very tired of your attitude….Irene
Quote so when it says that God will shake the heaven he talks about his heaven not our sky
Yet the Scripture says this, which you gave us….
HAG 2:6 “For thus says the LORD of hosts, ‘ Once more in a little while, I am going to shake the heavens and the earth, the sea also and the dry land.
You see in Rev. 21 it tells us that there will be no more seas.l…which goes along with this Scripture….
Irenewhat is shaken is not destroyed ,only what has been created on the earth and in heaven is ,the planet are created for ever.
Pierre
Elements melted. Hmmmmm. To one who knows a little about science and chemistry, The elements appear on a periodic table. You know, O-oxygen, N-nitrogen. O2 is air. H20 is water etc. etc(compounds of elements). In order for these to be melted, that would require ALOT of heat, enough to melt the earth. Nothing would remain, it would be melted, like it directly states in 2 Peter. Pick and choose the scripture you want to support your opinion, believe what you want, but the scriptures say the earth is toast on the Lord's day. I can't wait. You can have whats left of this defiled, polluted world. What I look forward to is a NEW heavens and a NEW earth where rightiousness dwells. From the looks of things it won't be long….Peace-Mark
Revelation 21
1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.No sea? How will you live when the sea is gone? First heaven and earth PASSED AWAY? but no, ya'll say it will never pass away(the earth) Hmmmm. which to believe? Ya'll or the bible?
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.Hmmm. spoken by Jesus himself. who should I believe? JESUS of course!!
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
King James Version (KJV)16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
I'd like to fly. If I'm alive when Jesus comes it says here I will.
1 Thessalonians 5
1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
sounds like destruction of the earth to me……… they shall not escape! no one will survive.Luke 3:7-18
New International Version (NIV)7 John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 9 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does NOT produce good fruit will be CUT DOWN and thrown into the FIRE.”
Quote (Pastry @ Nov. 03 2011,19:39) Even if the Scripture in Ecc. and Psalms, means for a long time, there is still Malachi to deal with… If God will destroy the earth completely the Saints will not walk on the surface of the earth..
Hi Irene,Can't the saints walk on the surface of the NEW earth?
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 03 2011,20:43) so you believe that the earth will be totally new and the heaven as well
Yes sir,That is my current understanding. Jesus said that heaven and earth WILL pass away, and I tend to believe him.
But like I told Irene, this is the first time I've ever discussed this subject.
peace,
mike
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