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Mark! You should talk… You stay in a Church that has more wrong doctrine then any Church I know…. Starting with the worship of Maria and the trinity…. The Mass is an abomination to God and YOU my friend take part in it…. and what makes it worse is that YOU know how wrong they are and stay…. the JW have more truths then the Catholics have….Jesus said if you love Mother, Father, Brother, Sister more then me, you are not worthy of me…so much for loving your neighbor… they are YOUR neighbor also whether YOU like it or not…..So get of your big horse and stop written negative articles about them…
Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 03 2011,23:59) Why are you called, “Jehovah's Witnesses” and not “Christians”? Since Jehovah's Witnesses appeal to Isa 43:12; 44:8 for scriptural support that they should be called, “Jehovah's Witnesses” then what was the “new name” prophesied in Isa 62:2? Can't be “Jehovah's Witnesses”, for God already used it 20 chapters earlier. Could the new name be “Christian” after our savior “Christ”?
Why would the name God gave to His people not be “Christians” since Acts 11:26 says, “The disciples were first called Christians in Antioch”? Why is the name “Jehovah's Witness” found nowhere in the New Testament, if that is God's divine name for His people under the new covenant? Why would God wait almost 2000 years to suddenly start using the name “Jehovah's Witness”. Does this mean that first century Christians were not known as Jehovah's Witnesses”?
Jehovah is Gods name,,, they witness for God, so whats wrong with that…. nothing….your accusation is what is wrong …..Psa 83:18 That [men] may know that thou, whose name alone [is] JEHOVAH, [art] the most high over all the earth.
Psa 68:4 Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name Jehovah, and rejoice before him.
Whenever you see LORD in all cap-ital letters it is istead of Jehovah…. The translators did not want to take Gods name in vain and used LORD instead… our footnotes say in the Ryie Study Bible….Irene
Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 03 2011,23:51) Jesus said not to rattle on like the Pagans, who think they can win by lots of words. he said God already knows what you need before you ask. then he says “when you pray, say” not pray kinda like this, but “say” and then he gave the prayer. I say it. He said to.I don't argue about it. He already knows what I need. I also ask him special things because he also said to ask and recieve. The lords prayer is a prayer, given by Jesus. Simple. 
Mark, Mark, Mark… how ironic it is of you to say this about prayers…when YOUR Church prays more Our Father and Hail Maria…worshiping Her…shame on you to even compare this…Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 04 2011,00:01) If I can write disagreements to my own church, It is not out of trying to make myself feel better like you said. I let my spirit guide me. Be it my church, or yours (if you consider it a church, if not, whatever you consider it).
You are so funny… you really thought that any of the Bishops would even change??? Are you kidding me?
But you know what,,,, Mike is right, you did write them to make yourself feel better…. but it did no good ….Mark
why did Jesus did not join one of the churches in his time they were about six or seven at that time ,can truth sleep with lies ?can truth sit on the same chair with lies ?NO
can any one change those organizations ?? no ,people yes,all others have to be destroyed,
it is all about TRUTH OF GOD so no lies as soon you have lies you are out of the truth ,right ??
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 04 2011,02:31) Mark why did Jesus did not join one of the churches in his time they were about six or seven at that time ,can truth sleep with lies ?can truth sit on the same chair with lies ?NO
can any one change those organizations ?? no ,people yes,all others have to be destroyed,
it is all about TRUTH OF GOD so no lies as soon you have lies you are out of the truth ,right ??
Pierre
Woah Man!! What a firestorm I started! Well folks, it ain't perfect, but it is my opinion. I go with what I see, and I see that all churches have wrong focuses and doctrines but they, and we, are imperfect. Pierre, Jesus ddi go to temple and participate and follow the Jewish customs. As a matter of fact he NEVER told his diciples to leave. He just told them not to follow the teachers example. Also he told them that the pharasees sat on Moses seat so to do everything they were told, but not to follow thier example. BETTER DEAL FOR ME! I am NOT REQUIRED to say roserys, nor do I . I am NOT REQUIRED to believe what some priest believe about the transubstantiation. As matter of fact I believe it is already Jesus before they bless it. I also believe EVERY loaf of bread is Jesus' body. I believe EVERY drop of wine is Jesus' blood. I believe we are judged on how much of our heart we love God and neighbor with, not what our leaders do or say, just like the old days. If you want to sit out and let it ride, well, good luck with that. I choose to do as Jesus did, and proclaim what is black and white wrong, no matter what they or you or my family thinks, and like Paul said and not absent myself from assembling. I also honor the Baptism I had. But I also believe that all the people who do not do anything but lip service to God and condemning other churches and not doing anything for God (or in one case nothing for ANYBODY but themselves, no benevolence to any outside persons or faiths) are fooling themselves into self rightiousness. We'll soon see………P.S. By the way, I am not condemning the Jehovahs witnesses or comparing their correctness to truth vs. any other church. I am merely stating thngs I do not agree with. Peace-
Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 03 2011,06:55) Seems point blank to me. Yet Jehovahs witnesses say- “Earth will never be destroyed or depopulated Eccl. 1:4; Isa. 45:18; Ps. 78:69
Mark,Three years ago, when I decided to give up the drug and alcohol lifestyle I was living and devote myself to coming to know God, I asked a JW to study with me. On our second study, he brought up this point about the earth not being destroyed, but “cleansed” by God.
To me, that didn't agree with the scriptures (although I knew very little about the scriptures then), and I asked him why he didn't believe there would be a new heaven and a new earth – just like scripture says. His answer was, “Don't you think God can just refresh this earth? Why would He have to create a whole new one?”
That was our second and final Bible study. I did not want to study with someone who tried to justify why scriptural words were WRONG.
I agree with you on this point, Mark. I believe there will be a BRAND NEW heavens and a BRAND NEW earth. I understand the scriptural reasons they offer. Apparently in their minds, scriptures are contradicting each other, and so they're going with the lessor of two evils, so to speak. If they can call the new earth a “RENEWED earth”, then in their reasoning, scriptures aren't contradicting each other anymore.
But, do you want to know why I agree with you and not them on this point?
peace,
mikeQuote (Pastry @ Nov. 04 2011,00:57) Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 04 2011,00:01) If I can write disagreements to my own church, It is not out of trying to make myself feel better like you said. I let my spirit guide me. Be it my church, or yours (if you consider it a church, if not, whatever you consider it).
You are so funny… you really thought that any of the Bishops would even change??? Are you kidding me? But you know what,,,, Mike is right, you did write them to make yourself feel better…. but it did no good ….
No, I wrote them because I felt it was right, and they can't say they were not warned by a sane, faithful person, who followed the rules, both theirs and God's as best as revealed to me in scripture. I am very confident in my close relationship with God and look forward to seeing him soon.Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 04 2011,17:21) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 04 2011,02:31) Mark why did Jesus did not join one of the churches in his time they were about six or seven at that time ,can truth sleep with lies ?can truth sit on the same chair with lies ?NO
can any one change those organizations ?? no ,people yes,all others have to be destroyed,
it is all about TRUTH OF GOD so no lies as soon you have lies you are out of the truth ,right ??
Pierre
Woah Man!! What a firestorm I started! Well folks, it ain't perfect, but it is my opinion. I go with what I see, and I see that all churches have wrong focuses and doctrines but they, and we, are imperfect. Pierre, Jesus ddi go to temple and participate and follow the Jewish customs. As a matter of fact he NEVER told his diciples to leave. He just told them not to follow the teachers example. Also he told them that the pharasees sat on Moses seat so to do everything they were told, but not to follow thier example. BETTER DEAL FOR ME! I am NOT REQUIRED to say roserys, nor do I . I am NOT REQUIRED to believe what some priest believe about the transubstantiation. As matter of fact I believe it is already Jesus before they bless it. I also believe EVERY loaf of bread is Jesus' body. I believe EVERY drop of wine is Jesus' blood. I believe we are judged on how much of our heart we love God and neighbor with, not what our leaders do or say, just like the old days. If you want to sit out and let it ride, well, good luck with that. I choose to do as Jesus did, and proclaim what is black and white wrong, no matter what they or you or my family thinks, and like Paul said and not absent myself from assembling. I also honor the Baptism I had. But I also believe that all the people who do not do anything but lip service to God and condemning other churches and not doing anything for God (or in one case nothing for ANYBODY but themselves, no benevolence to any outside persons or faiths) are fooling themselves into self rightiousness. We'll soon see………
Markyes Christ and his disciple where going to the temple of Salomon
almost on a daily base,but what you have to understand is that the temple was part of Gods word to worship him ,not the religious group,
so today it is the scriptures that teaches us the truth about God NOT RELIGION,
their is a difference
Pierre
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 04 2011,10:27) Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 03 2011,06:55) Seems point blank to me. Yet Jehovahs witnesses say- “Earth will never be destroyed or depopulated Eccl. 1:4; Isa. 45:18; Ps. 78:69
Mark,Three years ago, when I decided to give up the drug and alcohol lifestyle I was living and devote myself to coming to know God, I asked a JW to study with me. On our second study, he brought up this point about the earth not being destroyed, but “cleansed” by God.
To me, that didn't agree with the scriptures (although I knew very little about the scriptures then), and I asked him why he didn't believe there would be a new heaven and a new earth – just like scripture says. His answer was, “Don't you think God can just refresh this earth? Why would He have to create a whole new one?”
That was our second and final Bible study. I did not want to study with someone who tried to justify why scriptural words were WRONG.
I agree with you on this point, Mark. I believe there will be a BRAND NEW heavens and a BRAND NEW earth. I understand the scriptural reasons they offer. Apparently in their minds, scriptures are contradicting each other, and so they're going with the lessor of two evils, so to speak. If they can call the new earth a “RENEWED earth”, then in their reasoning, scriptures aren't contradicting each other anymore.
But, do you want to know why I agree with you and not them on this point?
peace,
mike
Yes I do. Why?Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 03 2011,17:31) I am very confident in my close relationship with God and look forward to seeing him soon.
Don't you mean “seeing THEM soon”? (Just kidding, let's stick with the topic.)Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 03 2011,17:34) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 04 2011,10:27) Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 03 2011,06:55) Seems point blank to me. Yet Jehovahs witnesses say- “Earth will never be destroyed or depopulated Eccl. 1:4; Isa. 45:18; Ps. 78:69
Mark,Three years ago, when I decided to give up the drug and alcohol lifestyle I was living and devote myself to coming to know God, I asked a JW to study with me. On our second study, he brought up this point about the earth not being destroyed, but “cleansed” by God.
To me, that didn't agree with the scriptures (although I knew very little about the scriptures then), and I asked him why he didn't believe there would be a new heaven and a new earth – just like scripture says. His answer was, “Don't you think God can just refresh this earth? Why would He have to create a whole new one?”
That was our second and final Bible study. I did not want to study with someone who tried to justify why scriptural words were WRONG.
I agree with you on this point, Mark. I believe there will be a BRAND NEW heavens and a BRAND NEW earth. I understand the scriptural reasons they offer. Apparently in their minds, scriptures are contradicting each other, and so they're going with the lessor of two evils, so to speak. If they can call the new earth a “RENEWED earth”, then in their reasoning, scriptures aren't contradicting each other anymore.
But, do you want to know why I agree with you and not them on this point?
peace,
mike
Yes I do. Why?
Because the word generally translated as “forever” in Eccl 1:4 and Ps 78:69 is the Hebrew word “owlam”. And that word does not mean “forever” or “from eternity”. It refers to “time indefinite”, which means “an undefined time period”.So Eccl 1:4 and Ps 78:69 both refer to the earth being around for A LONG TIME TO COME – not “forever”.
Mark, it is the same exact Hebrew word used in Micah 5:2. And in that verse, it is telling us that Jesus' origins were from A LONG TIME AGO – not “from eternity”.
But the JW scholars are definitely sharp and learned men – so I don't know why they would use those two scriptures as support that the present earth will only be “renewed”, and not destroyed and a brand new one made.
Perhaps there is more to their understanding than those three scriptures you listed, because the NWT translates “owlam” as “time indefinite” in Eccl 1:4 and Ps 78:69…………just like they do in Micah 5:2. (I don't know what to say about Is 45:18, because I can't see where it discusses how long the earth will be around. So I can't see how they're using that scripture as support of a “renewed earth”.
)peace,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 04 2011,10:27) Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 03 2011,06:55) Seems point blank to me. Yet Jehovahs witnesses say- “Earth will never be destroyed or depopulated Eccl. 1:4; Isa. 45:18; Ps. 78:69
Mark,Three years ago, when I decided to give up the drug and alcohol lifestyle I was living and devote myself to coming to know God, I asked a JW to study with me. On our second study, he brought up this point about the earth not being destroyed, but “cleansed” by God.
To me, that didn't agree with the scriptures (although I knew very little about the scriptures then), and I asked him why he didn't believe there would be a new heaven and a new earth – just like scripture says. His answer was, “Don't you think God can just refresh this earth? Why would He have to create a whole new one?”
That was our second and final Bible study. I did not want to study with someone who tried to justify why scriptural words were WRONG.
I agree with you on this point, Mark. I believe there will be a BRAND NEW heavens and a BRAND NEW earth. I understand the scriptural reasons they offer. Apparently in their minds, scriptures are contradicting each other, and so they're going with the lessor of two evils, so to speak. If they can call the new earth a “RENEWED earth”, then in their reasoning, scriptures aren't contradicting each other anymore.
But, do you want to know why I agree with you and not them on this point?
peace,
mike
Mike! If God wants to create a New Earth and a New Heaven He certainly will…. However inMal 4:1 ¶ For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts.
Mal 4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, [with] the statutes and judgments.
Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
Mal 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
Question, if God will destroy the Earth, and create a New one, how can the Saints walk on the ashes of the wicked?
Lets also look at those Scriopturess you Mike gave
Isa 45:18 ¶ For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I [am] the LORD; and [there is] none else.
Ecc 1:4 [One] generation passeth away, and [another] generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever
Psa 78:69 And he built his sanctuary like high [palaces], like the earth which he hath established for ever.
Those are very good Scriptures and I believe them…. God created he earth for forever… Rev. 21 is misleading… I believe He will renew the face of the earth… Just like God did before…. IMO Gid did not create a dark and void place, but a beautiful earth that all the Angels shouted for joy….Now that is my opinion…Peace and Love Irene
Hi Irene,
Then you believe like the JWs on this matter. I agree with them on many subjects, but not on this one. Of course, this is the first time I've even discussed this subject at any length, and I haven't ever delved into it. As impossible as it sounds, I could be wrong!
But read what I told Mark about the words “for ever” in Eccl 1:4 and Ps 78:69. The Hebrew word used, “owlam”, doesn't mean “forever”. It means “for a long time”.
peace,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 04 2011,11:51) Hi Irene, Then you believe like the JWs on this matter. I agree with them on many subjects, but not on this one. Of course, this is the first time I've even discussed this subject at any length, and I haven't ever delved into it. As impossible as it sounds, I could be wrong!
But read what I told Mark about the words “for ever” in Eccl 1:4 and Ps 78:69. The Hebrew word used, “owlam”, doesn't mean “forever”. It means “for a long time”.
peace,
mike
Mike! Even if the Scripture in Ecc. and Psalms, means for a long time, there is still Malachi to deal with… If God will destroy the earth completely the Saints will not walk on the surface of the earth….I always say time will tell, rui ght…. Could YOU be wrong???
Funny…. Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 04 2011,18:51) Hi Irene, Then you believe like the JWs on this matter. I agree with them on many subjects, but not on this one. Of course, this is the first time I've even discussed this subject at any length, and I haven't ever delved into it. As impossible as it sounds, I could be wrong!
But read what I told Mark about the words “for ever” in Eccl 1:4 and Ps 78:69. The Hebrew word used, “owlam”, doesn't mean “forever”. It means “for a long time”.
peace,
mike
hi MikeHAG 2:6 “For thus says the LORD of hosts, ‘ Once more in a little while, I am going to shake the heavens and the earth, the sea also and the dry land.
Heb 12:26 At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.”
Heb 12:27 The words “once more” indicate the removing of what can be shaken—that is, created things—so that what cannot be shaken may remain.
Heb 12:28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe,Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
what it says in Ge 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
so you believe that the earth will be totally new and the heaven as well
Pierre
Pierre! You are right on… When Jesus will come again He will smite the nations with a sword of the wrath of God
Rev 19:11 ¶ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
That is how He will shake the earth…. Peace and Love Irene
irene
pay attention to gen;1;1 and see what it says GOD CREATED THE HEAVEN ,AND THE EARTH but the heaven was created first then the earth ,and the heaven is not the sky what it is ,this is the heaven of God ,pay attention to what is written into the days of creation,
so when it says that God will shake the heaven he talks about his heaven not our sky
does this ring a bell??
Pierre
God has the power to know at any second how many hairs you have on your head. God has the power to cross 7 universes and 9 Galaxys in a nanosecond. God has the power to die and rise from the grave. God can completely renew the earth while we watch, and we can dwell on a brand new world without sin. God can sterilize this world with Fire, like John the baptist said he is going to. “The wheat will be gathered into his barn, and the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire” The polluted defiled world is ripe for cleansing. The plagues from revalations are going to happen, and it says the islands will flee and the mountains will fall. Also in Daniel it says that the stone not hewn from anything will strike the statue and it will fall fine as chaff on the threshing floor and the wind will blow it away…… God can do anything, nothing is impossible with God.
but some have become victims of those who twist scripture to fit what they believe, and teach others to believe. You can make the scriptures say anything you want, if you twist them enough, but it doesn't change the truth. Here is the truth-
” His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.”
Because in this case I feel this is happended concerning the End, because it is in scripture in many places about the earths present form end many times. One of the plainest is this-
”
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.[a]11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.”
It doesn't say “renewed”, it says new. It doesnt say the elements will be re-used, it says they will MELT. Also in Enoch it talks about the mountains melting like wax before the flame. Think about it.
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