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Quote (Pastry @ Sep. 18 2011,01:34) David! Even so I too like to talk to your people, but I am a little bit confused…. First of all I alwasy thought that the authorities are the Kings for us now, and that we are under them and should obey by their laws…. so you disagree and that we shouldn't? Irene
Hi Pastry.
No, I don't agree or believe that we shouldn't obey the laws of the land or the laws of the kings. Pay back caesars things to caesar. JW's obey the laws as well as they can, unless they contradict God's laws. “We must obey God as ruler, rather than men,” as it says. It's a relative subjection. The rulers have been ALLOWED to rule so that we don't have massive chaos. But at the same time, God has said he will bring to nothing all such rulership. So, JW's don't look to human governments with any kind of hope or adhoration. They vote for God's kingdom and try to stay neutral when it comes to politics or worldly affairs.Quote (david @ Oct. 09 2011,16:28)
And if people don't fall into what JW's think defines a Christian, then they don't think they are Christians.
Hi David,Thank you for coming clean an finally admitting that your organization does teach their members…
…that those who are not members of your organization are not Christians.Now was that so hard to do?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Oct. 10 2011,10:35) Quote (david @ Oct. 09 2011,16:28)
And if people don't fall into what JW's think defines a Christian, then they don't think they are Christians.
Hi David,Thank you for coming clean an finally admitting that your organization does teach their members…
…that those who are not members of your organization are not Christians.Now was that so hard to do?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edji never could understand why you ask the question ,it is obvious to me that as soon as you build an organization it will distinct you from other no matter what ,
then you have the insiders and the outsiders ,and you can not be in and out at the same time it is either not both,
this is a rules in ALL organization ,even Company' s ,institutions, nations,ect.
Quote (david @ Oct. 09 2011,16:45) Quote (Pastry @ Sep. 18 2011,01:34) David! Even so I too like to talk to your people, but I am a little bit confused…. First of all I alwasy thought that the authorities are the Kings for us now, and that we are under them and should obey by their laws…. so you disagree and that we shouldn't? Irene
Hi Pastry.
No, I don't agree or believe that we shouldn't obey the laws of the land or the laws of the kings. Pay back caesars things to caesar. JW's obey the laws as well as they can, unless they contradict God's laws. “We must obey God as ruler, rather than men,” as it says. It's a relative subjection. The rulers have been ALLOWED to rule so that we don't have massive chaos. But at the same time, God has said he will bring to nothing all such rulership. So, JW's don't look to human governments with any kind of hope or adhoration. They vote for God's kingdom and try to stay neutral when it comes to politics or worldly affairs.
David! So you and your organization don't vote?
My Husband doesn't either…..Peace Ireneall
many do not vote ,and many do not know why they vote,and many do not vote and still do not know why, a Christian don't vote because he as already voted for Gods kingdom ,and we can not vote for two kingdom is it ???we would lose them both if we do
Pierre
What I found that those that do not vote, make the biggest noise if things don't go the way they want it to go….. Even so it is true that God has the final saying, but I also believe that it is our privilege and duty as the citizen of this country to vote….Peace Irene
Quote (Pastry @ Oct. 26 2011,08:50) What I found that those that do not vote, make the biggest noise if things don't go the way they want it to go….. Even so it is true that God has the final saying, but I also believe that it is our privilege and duty as the citizen of this country to vote….Peace Irene
hi Ireneso you have a double citizenship in both world ??
Gods kingdom and Satan world ??
are we not has Christians citizens from above and so cut all links with this world(the ones we can) ?? we only can worship the true God ,right ?
but this is one of the choices we have to make
our first duty is to the kingdom of God ,NO???Pierre
Pierre! What you do is your choice, what I do is mine…. that doesn't mean i am in the world…. it means I am doing my duty as still being a citizen in this world…. The government, the Major etc. is not Satan, some are even Christians……so why should I judge them, I won't….Irene
Quote (Pastry @ Oct. 26 2011,10:50) Pierre! What you do is your choice, what I do is mine…. that doesn't mean i am in the world…. it means I am doing my duty as still being a citizen in this world…. The government, the Major etc. is not Satan, some are even Christians……so why should I judge them, I won't….Irene
IrenePS 17:14 From men with Your hand, O LORD,
From men of the world, whose portion is in this life,
And whose belly You fill with Your treasure;
They are satisfied with children,
And leave their abundance to their babes.MT 4:8 Again, the devil *took Him to a very high mountain and *showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory;
MT 13:22 “And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.
MT 13:35 This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet:
“I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN PARABLES;
I WILL UTTER THINGS HIDDEN SINCE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.”LK 12:30 “For all these things the nations of the world eagerly seek; but your Father knows that you need these things.
JN 8:12 Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, “ I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life.”
JN 15:19 “If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.
JN 17:14 “I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
JN 17:15 “I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one.
JN 17:16 “ They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world1CO 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
1CO 5:10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.
1CO 7:33 but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how he may please his wife,
1CO 7:34 and his interests are divided. The woman who is unmarried, and the virgin, is concerned about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and spirit; but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how she may please her husband.
2CO 7:10 For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.COL 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
2PE 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
REV 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.
but it is our choice ,and understanding
Pierre
Quote (mikeangel @ Nov. 02 2011,02:43) Mike, “In 1870, Charles Taze Russell and others formed an independent group in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania to study the Bible.[16][17] During the course of his ministry Russell disputed many of the creeds, doctrines, and traditions of mainstream Christianity including immortality of the soul, hellfire, predestination, the fleshly return of Jesus Christ, the Trinity, and the burning up of the world.”
How to view this man? Let's see how he honored his vow to God in marriage-
“On March 13, 1879, Russell married Maria Frances Ackley (/məˈraɪ.ə/; 1850–1938) after a few months' acquaintance.[20] The couple separated in 1897. Russell blamed the marriage breakup on disagreements over Maria's insistence for a greater editorial role in Zion's Watch Tower magazine,[21] though a later court judgment noted that he had labelled the marriage “a mistake” three years before the dispute over her editorial ambitions had arisen.[22] Maria Russell filed a suit for legal separation in the Court of Common Pleas at Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania in June 1903 and three years later filed for divorce under the claim of mental cruelty.[23] She was granted a divorce from bed and board, with alimony, in 1908.[24] Maria Russell died at the age of 88 in St. Petersburg, Florida on March 12, 1938 from complications related to Hodgkin's disease.[25]”
Also, it is written in scripture to judge a prophet on how his predictions play out. If they do not come to pass, do not fear them. They predicted many times the inauguration of the Kingdom, which never materialized. Nope. don't fear him.Peace and Love Mike-Mark
Hi David,I re-posted this quote, by putting it in this thread it fits best; taking it from this thread. (Click Here)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Ed,
Mark also made a comment about the JW tracts being “unscriptural”. And a slam about the JWs not reciting the “Lord's Prayer” in their services.
I offered him the opportunity to discuss either of those things in this thread.
Again, thanks for your help in moving his posts to the proper threads.
Well here I am. I do not use the forum as much as alot of you do, and I only keep track of a few threads. In reading the Jehovahs witnesses beliefs and tracts, I realize that they take a few scriptures, and back up what THEY believe, and preach amd teach it as THE TRUTH. THEIR interpretation is correct. Everybody else is wrong. THEY are the ones who properly worship God. DO NOT participate with any other denomination who isn't them. This is exactly what is wrong with all the other churches doctrines. We and nobody else has the real deal. Loving or not, if your not us, so long sucka, you are lost until you realize we are the source of truth, even though is is OUR interpretation. Love thy neighbor and help them? Heck no. Not unless they are Jehovahs Witnesses. Unless they are in the process of converting to us we are to have nothing to do with them. We ignore the parable of the samaritan, because we know better than Jesus. He really ment for us to have nothing to do with people who do not follow OUR way of things. End of the world? Heck no. Even though the bible says its coming, we find a few scriptures that say it will remain forever, and god created it to be lived in, but fail to realize that Men have defiled it, and it is written that God will destroy it. We ignore all that is written in Revalatons about the world being re-created and made NEW. Point being, the Jehovahs Witnesses say other views and opinions are wrong except their own. then say their not infaliable. They make as much sense as the others who try to do the same thing. Time will tell, but as it is written “What will you do when the end comes?” Peace-Mark
On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?” He answered: “'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'” “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.” But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,' he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.' “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?” The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.” Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.” (NIV, Luke 10:25-37 )
This is what Jesus said leads to salvation, being a good neighbor. In these modern terms, one of the people besides the priest that passes him by on the other side of the street could be a Jehovahs Witness. He , seeing someone who just needs companionship, sees someone they think does not fit in with thier thinking and beliefs, ignores them like the Jews did the samaritians. but a loving man helps others out of compassion, even though he is a sinner, but has love for others in his heart. I think that there will be prostitutes and tax collectors in the KINGDOM of God like Jesus said ther would be before the self rightious.
This is what they believe and the scriptures thay use to back it up, even though Jesus says to love thy neighbor. they make the pharasees proud IMO,
A Christian ought to have no part in interfaith movements 2 Cor. 6:14-17; 11:13-15; Gal. 5:9; Deut. 7:1-5
A Christian should keep separate from world Jas. 4:4; 1 John 2:15; John 15:19; 17:16
Mike, I cannot win a discussion or arguement with you. You are much more skilled than me. But that does not mean it is right and truth. This is what I consider point blank contradictory to what Jesus said to do to enherit eternity. “time indefinite”. Love thy neighbor does not mean just you or your church members. that is what the Levite and the priest did. You are Judging other Christians, and will be Judged. After all that, I believe you are then dishonest and come on here to masqurade as a average Joe argueing points they believe in, and say you do not belong to them, while directing people towards them. You are hypocritical IMO, but then again, I realize nobodys perfect, and I still love the true God in you. Peace Man-Mark
Jesus said not to rattle on like the Pagans, who think they can win by lots of words. he said God already knows what you need before you ask. then he says “when you pray, say” not pray kinda like this, but “say” and then he gave the prayer. I say it. He said to.I don't argue about it. He already knows what I need. I also ask him special things because he also said to ask and recieve. The lords prayer is a prayer, given by Jesus. Simple.
Denial of the Parousia. 1* This is now, beloved, the second letter I am writing to you; through them by way of reminder I am trying to stir up your sincere disposition, 2to recall the words previously spoken by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and savior through your apostles.a 3Know this first of all, that in the last days scoffers* will come [to] scoff, living according to their own desiresb 4and saying, “Where is the promise of his coming?* From the time when our ancestors fell asleep, everything has remained as it was from the beginning of creation.”c 5They deliberately ignore the fact that the heavens existed of old and earth was formed out of water and through water* by the word of God;d 6through these the world that then existed was destroyed,e deluged with water.* 7The present heavens and earth have been reserved by the same word for fire, kept for the day of judgment and of destruction of the godless.f
8* But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years* and a thousand years like one day.g 9The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.h 10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief,* and then the heavens will pass away with a mighty roar and the elements will be dissolved by fire, and the earth and everything done on it will be found out.i
Exhortation to Preparedness.* 11Since everything is to be dissolved in this way, what sort of persons ought [you] to be, conducting yourselves in holiness and devotion,j 12* waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God,k because of which the heavens will be dissolved in flames and the elements melted by fire. 13But according to his promise we await new heavens and a new earth* in which righteousness dwells.l
Seems point blank to me. Yet Jehovahs witnesses say-
“Earth will never be destroyed or depopulated Eccl. 1:4; Isa. 45:18; Ps. 78:69
Why are you called, “Jehovah's Witnesses” and not “Christians”? Since Jehovah's Witnesses appeal to Isa 43:12; 44:8 for scriptural support that they should be called, “Jehovah's Witnesses” then what was the “new name” prophesied in Isa 62:2? Can't be “Jehovah's Witnesses”, for God already used it 20 chapters earlier. Could the new name be “Christian” after our savior “Christ”?
Why would the name God gave to His people not be “Christians” since Acts 11:26 says, “The disciples were first called Christians in Antioch”? Why is the name “Jehovah's Witness” found nowhere in the New Testament, if that is God's divine name for His people under the new covenant? Why would God wait almost 2000 years to suddenly start using the name “Jehovah's Witness”. Does this mean that first century Christians were not known as Jehovah's Witnesses”?If I can write disagreements to my own church, It is not out of trying to make myself feel better like you said. I let my spirit guide me. Be it my church, or yours (if you consider it a church, if not, whatever you consider it).
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 03 2011,10:10) Hi Ed, Mark also made a comment about the JW tracts being “unscriptural”. And a slam about the JWs not reciting the “Lord's Prayer” in their services.
I offered him the opportunity to discuss either of those things in this thread.
Again, thanks for your help in moving his posts to the proper threads.
Also I did not slam them. I just said they don't say it. Simple. But if they are correctly using it a a guide, and it says to forgive others debts, why don't they have anything to do with other Christians?
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