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What did the Angels do while the creation was being effected?
Did they just 'watch'?
Scriptures says that the 'Stars' sang together and that the 'Sons of God shouted with joy'
Who are the 'Stars' and who are the 'Sons of God'?
We also know that one of the Stars has fallen. Which Star, who, might that Star be?
And if the answer is as i feel you agree, then 'Stars' are the 'Princes', the 'PRINCiplE' Sons of God, of which 'Jesus' is PreEminent.
This, then, clearly shows, in as much as it is believed by virtually everyone that Satan is 'PreExistent' before falling to Earth, that also Jesus must also have been PreExistent before coming to Earth.
Michael, the Archangel, is said to be 'ONE' of the Captains of the army of God, God Himself being the 'Field Marshall', so to speak, so who are the other 'Captains of God's army, hosts of powerful angels, sons of God'.
They, then, must be the other 'Stars', Principle sons…perhaps Twelve Sons altogether, perhaps…what Scriptural fractal might reflect this idea?
When a man wants a house built – he employs architects, designers, brickies, sparkies, – a whole host of people…
One of those people is a Chief Architect and overseer.The man says what he wants and that chief Architect carries out his Word – is that man's Word – and makes sure all the other people do that which that man spoke.
God is that 'man' and Jesus is that 'chief Architect' and the other angels are variously the other workers.
When the house is built, on the Man and the chief Architect get the praise. and ultimately, on the man gets the full praise for “Building His House”.
But at another time, the Chief Architect could say that he “Built the house”
Below that, no one else can say that they built the house, they could only say they build “this bit” or “That bit” but, in fact would not say anything as that would be presumptuous and Angels are not presumptuous!
Quoting my Husband” They had a Party”.
:):) Except job 38 that They shouted for joy, I have not come across any other Scripture. Therefore it would be speculation of what they did….Also Genesis says that us and our is used at creation, could very well be that they helped, but that is not a clear Scripture at all. Also it took them 7 days, so in that time they could be doing their duty. I don't think that they are just doing nothing at all times. They are serving, so that is what they could have done in the mean time….and when all was done then they shouted for joy…Also did anyone ever question why God created the world that was void and dark? Georg thinks and I somewhat agree that Genesis is talking about the recreation of the earth…. When Satan was thrown out of Heaven, He could have made this earth into the void and dark earth. After all he is considered the God of this earth… God then recreated the earth so we could live in it….Satan also was left here in order to test us, because God cannot look on sin, and we all have fallen short of the glory of God, little by little we learn to do away with Sin and become more like Christ…. Again all of this is speculation at best…
Peace and Love Irene. Irene,
This is certainly all speculation.
What i am asking is if there is any scope for developing truth from it.
What does God's organistaion look like?
Many places in Scriptures show different types of Angels:
Michael, Gabriel, the 'My Angel'/'the Angel of God' note that it says 'THE ANGEL of God'. This implies a specific, explicit Angel.
We know also of the one who became Satan, who we call 'Lucifer'.Despite, complete qualification, and desention from some posters, it is clear that, whatever name we give him, 'Lucifer' was an Angel with high power and authority and if great influence, as Scriptures shows he led a failed rebellion resulting in the fall of 'one third of the Stars of Heaven' (Again, who are the 'Star' as opposed to normal Angel 'Sons of God'?)
There are also 'simple' Messenger Angels who have no power or authority except to deliver messages … a make sure it is done, just that.
Other Angels can discourse with man, remonstrate, have room to change things a little as long as the original outcome is achieved, e.g. Abraham argued for the saving of Sodom and Gomorrah, ok, that was with God, through an Angel. And Lot argued for going to another nearby closer town than the Angel had told him to go. Ok, was this God through the Angel, again?So, God works THROUGH an Angel always mindful of that Angels ability, hey, no sweat, God has, and knows every Angels ability and uses wisdom in choosing which to deploy in every situation.
Then to the other Angels: Cherubums and Seraphims.
Seraphims never leave out of God's presence.
Cherubims, 'Lucifer' was said to be a Cherub. He clearly 'walked to and fro' both in Heaven and on, and in, the Earth.And now to 'Jesus'.
There is no mention of any other type of being in Heaven other than God and Angels. Nowhere at all in Scriptures.
Being the 'Image of the Father' MUST be seen (ha!) in Spiritual terms. Is this a problem for many here. They cannot see things with a 'Spiritual Eye'.
God cannot be seen. So what 'image' are we talking about? Spirituallym this means 'Qualities', the Nature of the being.
So 'Jesus' has the exact 'Nature', the exact 'Image' of the Father. 'Jesus' is the very 'Word' of the Father. He does exactly what the Father says, point blank. He is the epitome of Righteousness and Truth and Love and Wisdom.
No other 'Angel' was like him in holding to the way of the Father and the Father, quite fittingly honoured and Glorified him above all the other Angels.Ok, what am I speculating?
That 'ALL' sentient creation of God are 'Sons of God' and God is their 'Father', all that have the Spirit of the Father, are, Sons of the Father.
Therefore, All Angels are Sons of God.But, are there Special Sons?
Scriptures, implies, that they are 'Princes'…'Principle Sons'.If so, then there must be a 'Senior' Prince.
This is clearly reflected in the way God organised human society and His beloved nation, in particular, with the 'Firstborn' being 'Senior'. But with provision to remove the 'firstborn' in the case of a problem. The replacement was to become the 'figurative firstborn', begotten…(Reborn) as 'Firstborn'.
To that 'firstborn' goes the inheritance of the Father. Obviously, seeing that God never dies, never abdicates, then the 'firstborn' can only ever receive a 'figurative crown' and power and authority is always exercised from the Father.
Jesus is Never in Full Charge, always being 'In' and 'under' the Father. Therefore, Jesus is never 'God Amighty' at anytime, although he does exercise the 'power and authority' of God for a given period of time.
So back to Angels.
What is an Angel?
Well, if we don't know already what an Angel is, that is redicoulous to say the least. They are and have always been Spirit Beings. We also know that Satan was a very beautiful Archangel like Gabriel until iniquity was found in him, when he became proud and wanted to take God of His Throne and wanted to be God himself….I also know that the serve us. Our Granddaughter Tiffany is alive because She was caught when She jumped of their Balcony when She was 2 years old….One Angel also saved me from an accident on a Highway when it had snowed and there was a ice spot. I lost control of my car and someone took over when I cried out God “help me”. It was an awesome experience…..It strengthened my faith….As far as rank is concerned, I only know that the Archangels are higher then any of them….Can the Angel become to earth in another Form, yes….( can't think of the word right now what they are called) they did when they married some beautiful woman. You can read that in Genesis…..That is another reason that Georg believes that the earth has been in existing longer then 200years. Science has shown us that….fossils of large Animals etc. Us humans could have never lived then….But Hybrids could have….And those Angels produced Hybrids….the worst of those Angels are chained up until the wrath of God, and God will loose them for that purpose….wooo to the habit tants of the earth then…. I do not want to be around …..
Peace and love IreneIrene,
Thanks for your input.
However, I never implied that Angels were not Spirits. I just don't know if you read any of my posts properly. Did i imply anywhere else that they were not?
Perhaps because i didn't say in my previous post. Ok, i agree, Angels are Spirit Beings.
Also, i couldn't think of 'Archangels' when I was showing that there are different types of Angels in heaven.
And, of course Angels can create bodies. Scriptures shows this plainly. No secret there.
The incident you mention is a case where they made permanent bodies and occupied them with their own spirit and thereby interacted with humans, as you, and Scripture says.
After this God banned them from doing so. Angels cannot now create anything in the visible world nor interact with it except by invitation by a human or by direct order of God (through Jesus).
Your incidents may well be true and praise God for that.
Some people, and especially women, endanger themselves by actually wanting to contact the spirit realm, but don't realise that what they are doing is inviting wicked masquarading spirits into their lives.
Things like Seances, Voodoo, Eujee boards, palmistry, Horiscopes, star charts, Contact your dead relative sessions…spiritism, etc, etc…are all badnesses… Jesus warned the woman to stop doing it, and Saul lost his kingship because of it.
Ghost hunting, there is no such thing as a Ghost… But how many people make a living out of it, fooling gullible, naive, spiritbelieving people.One cannot contact an angel, and an angel, a good one, only responds to what God tells him to do.
Can you go to someones workplace and ask a junior clerk to do something for you. No, that person would refer you to a senior person who would decide if that thing can be done and who does it. If the clerk took it upon himself, who knows what manner of chaos could ensue…!
Ok, it's not a strong analogy but just take it at dace value, worst case scenario.So, there are heurachial orders of Angels and we know where some fit.
Scriptures says there were two 'covering Angels', Cherubs, who attended at the throne, covered the throne of God. We know that one was 'Lucifer'. Who was the other?
Saul, was chosen to be the first King of the Jewish nation because he was tall and handsome. But then sinned, and another was 'brought up' in his place, David, a most Righteous man, made King in place of the handsome man but unrighteous man.
Adam, was first human son of God, but then sinned. And another, Jesus, born of the Spirit as was Adam, was 'brought up', made 'first Son of God' in place of Adam.Any thoughts in that direction. Anyone?
Irene, there have been many incidents lately of people falling from high buildings and not being harmed, it was on the news, it has people baffled,
I was in a car crash involving high speed and a truck which lost control and impacted head on, It was strange because that day the seat belt became faulty so I never had it on, , the car was a wreck but I was ok, only some whiplash, but it wasn't possible, I should have by rights gone through the windscreen, Other things have happened too involving my Children, I believe you,
JustAskin! Tell you I would never go to a witch hunt or anything like it….. When we belonged to the Catholic Church we had a Maria Statue carved out of wood, which my Mother-In_law send us from Bavaria. It was really nice looking. When we left that Church we also got rid of all Crosses and Statues…..The place were it stood, whenever I went past it, especially at night, gave me the cripes…. I could literally feel Demons . It was only after I chased them out in Christ Name did it stop. Satan was horribly upset with us, and he tried so many things, even now at times at nights since I am so sensitise to those Spirits I feel them, and I again in Jesus Name chase them out…. Thankfully it does not happen to often anymore….not to many believe this, but those that had similar experiences will agree….Jesus is called the second Adam, because he was the ransom for our Sins and that is why He is called that, is that what you mean?
I don't know of any other Son of God at that time….even though Abraham was righteous and could be called the Son of God and IMO will be one of the elect…. IMO of course….
Peace and Love IreneQuote (shimmer @ Aug. 02 2010,11:12) Irene, there have been many incidents lately of people falling from high buildings and not being harmed, it was on the news, it has people baffled, I was in a car crash involving high speed and a truck which lost control and impacted head on, It was strange because that day the seat belt became faulty so I never had it on, , the car was a wreck but I was ok, only some whiplash, but it wasn't possible, I should have by rights gone through the windscreen, Other things have happened too involving my Children, I believe you,
Thank you for your post and you are right Miracles still happen…..Also I am happy that you did not get hurt in that accident…. Praise God…..Peace and Love IreneQuote JustAskin! Tell you I would never go to a witch hunt or anything like it….. –Irene
Do they still have witch hunts where you live? And where do you live?
Ja,
Were not the purpose of angels were to be ministering spirits to man?
wouldnt the angels existance be meaningless if man did not exist?SF………….No because we are to be as the Angels also, according to Jesus. Angles are Beings that have bodies only bodies that don't die as we are to have. God creates their spirits (IN) them and sends them forth to minister to us, But assured they do have Bodies they are livings Souls. God will also create new Spirits in Us and give us new bodies also. WE exist in this state for the only reason to learn good and evil by experiencing them a personal association (experience is the best teacher) AND ALL ARE BEING TAUGHT. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene
Quote (david @ Aug. 02 2010,17:58) Quote JustAskin! Tell you I would never go to a witch hunt or anything like it….. –Irene
Do they still have witch hunts where you live? And where do you live?
No David not here in Cinci, but in larger Cities like New York and Las Vegas etc….however at Halloween you will find them anywhere her also……anytime you even dress up like that, Satan is at your door…..if some will leave him in, that of course is a big????mark….IreneQuote (JustAskin @ Aug. 02 2010,00:05) What is an Angel?
Angels are Messengers.Even men are called angels.
Both John and Jesus are referred to as angels.
In the gospels we are told that a man or 2 men rolled away the stone of the tomb that Jesus was laid in, and in another version that an angel rolled away the stone.
Heavenly Messengers IMO can include Seraphs, Cherubs, and even Elijah and Moses and anyone else who is in heavenly glory.
That is my simple take on things.
This could be an interesting topic if people don't get all nasty and attack each other.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 03 2010,02:21) SF………….No because we are to be as the Angels also, according to Jesus. Angles are Beings that have bodies only bodies that don't die as we are to have. God creates their spirits (IN) them and sends them forth to minister to us, But assured they do have Bodies they are livings Souls. God will also create new Spirits in Us and give us new bodies also. WE exist in this state for the only reason to learn good and evil by experiencing them a personal association (experience is the best teacher) AND ALL ARE BEING TAUGHT. IMO peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene
Going by memory, I think it is also written that we will become like the angels.Judging by the fact that there are at least Seraphs and Cherubs, it stands to reason that these types/groups have leaders. We know as JA has already pointed out that there was a Chief Cherub and we know Michael is a prince. He could be the prince of Seraphs or took over the job of the ex-chief cherub.
We also know that it is Michael who casts the devil into the pit for a millennium.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 02 2010,20:21) SF………….No because we are to be as the Angels also, according to Jesus. Angles are Beings that have bodies only bodies that don't die as we are to have. God creates their spirits (IN) them and sends them forth to minister to us, But assured they do have Bodies they are livings Souls. God will also create new Spirits in Us and give us new bodies also. WE exist in this state for the only reason to learn good and evil by experiencing them a personal association (experience is the best teacher) AND ALL ARE BEING TAUGHT. IMO peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene
but your taking scripture out of context, Jesus was referring to our genders in heaven.
it doesnt say we will literally be angels.
it says something different.
the Angels cannot have what we have as sons of God.where in the bible says that Angel has souls?
The bible is actually terse in revealing things about angels.
If anyone gives the Book of Enoch any credence, it certainly has much to say about the sons of God.
It appears on a few occasions that some bible writers quote from this book, so if it is valid, it certainly would be the greatest writing that reveals information on the angels/sons.According to that book, there are chiefs of tens, fifties, hundreds…
Michael, Uriel, Raphael, and Gabriel are often mentioned together and appear to have great authority.
Other notable angels include: Raguel, Saraqâêl, Remiel, Phanuel.
It also says that Gabriel is a cherubim.
Many more angels are mentioned with descriptions of their posts.NOTE: I am not suggesting that we turn this discussion toward the Book of Enoch and away from the Bible. I am just making the observation that the Bible doesn't contain a lot of detail regarding heavenly order and persons. It is more concerned about man, redemption, the messiah, and of course the Father. Given that, we might be able to extract truth about angels from the bible, it will certainly need a level of detective work. But I think that most will end up being speculation. Although speculation is not bad, it does help us identify patterns. So let's continue.
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 03 2010,04:51) Quote (JustAskin @ Aug. 02 2010,00:05) What is an Angel?
Angels are Messengers.Even men are called angels.
Both John and Jesus are referred to as angels.
In the gospels we are told that a man or 2 men rolled away the stone of the tomb that Jesus was laid in, and in another version that an angel rolled away the stone.
Heavenly Messengers IMO can include Seraphs, Cherubs, and even Elijah and Moses and anyone else who is in heavenly glory.
That is my simple take on things.
This could be an interesting topic if people don't get all nasty and attack each other.
t8 You believe that Jesus is considered an Angel, yet the Bible says that He is God's Son. I know that you have quoted Proverbs 8 were Jesus is brought forth from the Father, and it is He who through the Father, created all. That includes the Angels. In Hebrew 1 God said:” And to which of the Angels did He ever say:” You are My Son, Today, I have begotten You.” When He became a man He emptied Himself and became lower then the Angels, but now, He again has the glory which He had with the Father before the world was….and more….He is seated at the right hand of the Father and will come as KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. Rev. 19:16….I agree that they are Messengers. Men are called Angels? Would you please show me a Scripture that shows that? So you also believe that some have gone to Heaven, like Moses and Elijah, is that what you are saying??? Of my head I can't think of a Scripture, but I always thought that all are sleeping in the grave until Christ's return….
Peace and Love Irene
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