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Jesus is God’s Son in that He was conceived by the Holy Spirit . But that does not mean Jesus did not exist before He was conceived. Jesus has always existed. Read John 8;58 and 10;30. When Jesus was conceived, than He became a human being in addition to being God (John 1:1 and 14.)
Jesus always had been God. BUT at the incarnation Jesus became a human being (John 1:14 word was made flesh). Jesus was one Person, fully God and fully man.
Jesus had two natures, but only one personality.
When Jesus was conceived, He became a human being in addition to being God. Remember what (John 1:1 and 14 says.).The answer to this question is found by first understanding the reason why John wrote his gospel. We find his purpose clearly stated in John 20:30-31. “Many other signs therefore Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.” Once we understand that John’s purpose was to introduce the readers of his gospel to Jesus Christ, establishing Who Jesus is (God in the flesh) and what He did, all with the sole aim of leading them to embrace the saving work of Christ in faith, we will be better able to understand why John introduces Jesus as “The Word” in John 1:1.
By starting out his gospel stating, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God,” John is introducing Jesus with a word or a term that both his Jewish and Gentile readers would have been familiar with. The Greek word translated “Word” in this passage is Logos, and it was common in both Greek philosophy and Jewish thought of that day. For example, in the Old Testament the “word” of God is often personified as an instrument for the execution of God’s will (Psalm 33:6; 107:20; 119:89; 147:15-18). So, for his Jewish readers, by introducing Jesus as the “Word,” John is in a sense pointing them back to the Old Testament where the Logos or “Word” of God is associated with the personification of God’s revelation. And in Greek philosophy, the term Logos was used to describe the intermediate agency by which God created material things and communicated with them. In the Greek worldview, the Logos was thought of as a bridge between the transcendent God and the material universe. Therefore, for his Greek readers the use of the term Logos would have likely brought forth the idea of a mediating principle between God and the world.
So, essentially, what John is doing by introducing Jesus as the Logos is drawing upon a familiar word and concept that both Jews and Gentiles of his day would have been familiar with and using that as the starting point from which He introduces them to Jesus Christ. But John goes beyond the familiar concept of Logos that his Jewish and Gentile readers would have had and presents Jesus Christ not as a mere mediating principle like the Greeks perceived, but as a personal being, fully divine, yet fully human. Also, Christ was not simply a personification of God’s revelation as the Jews thought, but was indeed God’s perfect revelation of Himself in the flesh, so much so that John would record Jesus’ own words to Philip: “Jesus said unto Him, 'Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, “Show us the Father”?'” (John 14:9). By using the term Logos or “Word” in John 1:1, John is amplifying and applying a concept that was familiar with his audience and using that to introduce his readers to the true Logos of God in Jesus Christ, the Living Word of God, fully God and yet fully man, who came to reveal God to man and redeem all who believe in Him from their sin
gotquestion.orgQuote (katjo @ Oct. 22 2009,01:54) Jesus is God’s Son in that He was conceived by the Holy Spirit . But that does not mean Jesus did not exist before He was conceived. Jesus has always existed. Read John 8;58 and 10;30. When Jesus was conceived, than He became a human being in addition to being God (John 1:1 and 14.)
Jesus always had been God. BUT at the incarnation Jesus became a human being (John 1:14 word was made flesh). Jesus was one Person, fully God and fully man.
Jesus had two natures, but only one personality.
When Jesus was conceived, He became a human being in addition to being God. Remember what (John 1:1 and 14 says.).
Hi Katjo,Remember, the question is, why the N.W.T version has the last part of John 1:1 translated into ‘a god’; which I have explained very thoroughly; starting on page 43 of this thread.
The context of this thread is not whether Jesus had or has Deity; that is a separate issue; worthy of a discussion on another thread.
I agree with you “The Word” does do all those things; but understand that “The Word” (Holy Spirit) became flesh (in Jesus) at Jesus baptism by John;
He (Holy Spirit) led Jesus into the wilderness in Luke 4:1 and he (Holy Spirit) caused Jesus to return from the wilderness in Luke 4:14!
He (Holy Spirit) also made Jesus aware that he (Jesus) would have to die on a cross for the sins of mankind!The JW’s (David, Tim Kraft and Nick Hassan) all believe that at the point of baptism by John is when Jesus became the Messiah;
this view is consistent with the previous paragraph; which I’m sure they will disagree with.This lack of consistency on their part is the very reason why Christendom thinks there Organization is a cult.
But I know their goal is to worship יהוה האלהים YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL- ō-Hêêm (JEHOVAH GOD); therefore I consider them my brothers and sisters.For all belong to GOD. (Ezekiel 18:4 / Psalm 82:6)
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Oct. 22 2009,11:08) Quote (katjo @ Oct. 22 2009,01:54) Jesus is God’s Son in that He was conceived by the Holy Spirit . But that does not mean Jesus did not exist before He was conceived. Jesus has always existed. Read John 8;58 and 10;30. When Jesus was conceived, than He became a human being in addition to being God (John 1:1 and 14.)
Jesus always had been God. BUT at the incarnation Jesus became a human being (John 1:14 word was made flesh). Jesus was one Person, fully God and fully man.
Jesus had two natures, but only one personality.
When Jesus was conceived, He became a human being in addition to being God. Remember what (John 1:1 and 14 says.).
Hi Katjo,Remember, the question is, why the N.W.T version has the last part of John 1:1 translated into ‘a god’; which I have explained very thoroughly; starting on page 43 of this thread.
The context of this thread is not whether Jesus had or has Deity; that is a separate issue; worthy of a discussion on another thread.
I agree with you “The Word” does do all those things; but understand that “The Word” (Holy Spirit) became flesh (in Jesus) at Jesus baptism by John;
He (Holy Spirit) led Jesus into the wilderness in Luke 4:1 and he (Holy Spirit) caused Jesus to return from the wilderness in Luke 4:14!
He (Holy Spirit) also made Jesus aware that he (Jesus) would have to die on a cross for the sins of mankind!The JW’s (David, Tim Kraft and Nick Hassan) all believe that at the point of baptism by John is when Jesus became the Messiah;
this view is consistent with the previous paragraph; which I’m sure they will disagree with.This lack of consistency on their part is the very reason why Christendom thinks there Organization is a cult.
But I know their goal is to worship יהוה האלהים YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL- ō-Hêêm (JEHOVAH GOD); therefore I consider them my brothers and sisters.For all belong to GOD. (Ezekiel 18:4 / Psalm 82:6)
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
You say when He the Holy Spirit, so you believe in a trinity!!!
However you can't prove that. Trinity is no where to be found in Scriptures. Jesus did not always exist either. He had a beginning.
Col. 1:15-17 He is the image of the invisible God, THE FIRSTBORN OVER ALL CREATION.
VERSE 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are in earth…….
Rev. 3:14 ….”These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD.
In John 17:5 Jesus said this:” And now O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
There is a lot of Controversy about John 1:1 but it clearly shows us, that He was in the beginning with God. God the Father has always existed.Proverb 8:22-30 Let me say something first about these Scriptures. Most here will say that these Scriptures is talking about the beginning of wisdom. To me it simple does not make sense. Wisdom is of God, which IMO He always had. Just like Patience, Love, intellect etc.
These are so clear to me about Jesus being His master craftsman. To me that is not wisdom. How could wisdom be His master craftsman?
Also the trinity is a man made doctrine and not of God.
It was Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullian, it wass said that the doctrine of the trinity was his best achievement to Christianity.
He was born in A.D. 155 to Pagan Parents.
I am going to just list some Scriptures and I let you search them out.
Deut. 4:35
Deut. 6:4
1 Corinth. 8:4
Ephesians 4:6
And by Jesus own words
John 14:28
Were do you read that Jesus always existed.
You quote John 8:58 that only explains that He was before Abraham was. Just like all the other Scriptures that show us that He preexisted before the world was.
He did not have deity yet. Otherwise He could not have died for us. He does however have it now, He can never die again.
Jesus did know already that He was going to die for our sins. IMO He knew what was at stake. Scriptures tell us that all have fallen short of the glory of God. Also John tells us that all have sinned. Most believe that Jesus was a mere man, like all of us. To me that was not true. He was perfect in every way. He never sinned, so how then could He be like us in that way. He was however tempted and He was flesh like we.
Peace and Love IreneJesus is called the first-born, not the first-created. The word “first-born” (Greek word “prototokos”) means priority. He could not be first created if He is creator!
Jesus is “the image of the invisible God.” The word “image,” means copy or likeness, shows Christ's deity. He is God! BUT He took on human form, so He has the exact nature of His Father (Hebrews 1:3).
Quote (georg @ Oct. 22 2009,13:42) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 22 2009,11:08) Quote (katjo @ Oct. 22 2009,01:54) Jesus is God’s Son in that He was conceived by the Holy Spirit . But that does not mean Jesus did not exist before He was conceived. Jesus has always existed. Read John 8;58 and 10;30. When Jesus was conceived, than He became a human being in addition to being God (John 1:1 and 14.)
Jesus always had been God. BUT at the incarnation Jesus became a human being (John 1:14 word was made flesh). Jesus was one Person, fully God and fully man.
Jesus had two natures, but only one personality.
When Jesus was conceived, He became a human being in addition to being God. Remember what (John 1:1 and 14 says.).
Hi Katjo,Remember, the question is, why the N.W.T version has the last part of John 1:1 translated into ‘a god’; which I have explained very thoroughly; starting on page 43 of this thread.
The context of this thread is not whether Jesus had or has Deity; that is a separate issue; worthy of a discussion on another thread.
I agree with you “The Word” does do all those things; but understand that “The Word” (Holy Spirit) became flesh (in Jesus) at Jesus baptism by John;
He (Holy Spirit) led Jesus into the wilderness in Luke 4:1 and he (Holy Spirit) caused Jesus to return from the wilderness in Luke 4:14!
He (Holy Spirit) also made Jesus aware that he (Jesus) would have to die on a cross for the sins of mankind!The JW’s (David, Tim Kraft and Nick Hassan) all believe that at the point of baptism by John is when Jesus became the Messiah;
this view is consistent with the previous paragraph; which I’m sure they will disagree with.This lack of consistency on their part is the very reason why Christendom thinks there Organization is a cult.
But I know their goal is to worship יהוה האלהים YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL- ō-Hêêm (JEHOVAH GOD); therefore I consider them my brothers and sisters.For all belong to GOD. (Ezekiel 18:4 / Psalm 82:6)
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
You say when He the Holy Spirit, so you believe in a trinity!!!
However you can't prove that. Trinity is no where to be found in Scriptures. Jesus did not always exist either. He had a beginning.
Col. 1:15-17 He is the image of the invisible God, THE FIRSTBORN OVER ALL CREATION.
VERSE 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are in earth…….
Rev. 3:14 ….”These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD.
In John 17:5 Jesus said this:” And now O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
There is a lot of Controversy about John 1:1 but it clearly shows us, that He was in the beginning with God. God the Father has always existed.Proverb 8:22-30 Let me say something first about these Scriptures. Most here will say that these Scriptures is talking about the beginning of wisdom. To me it simple does not make sense. Wisdom is of God, which IMO He always had. Just like Patience, Love, intellect etc.
These are so clear to me about Jesus being His master craftsman. To me that is not wisdom. How could wisdom be His master craftsman?
Also the trinity is a man made doctrine and not of God.
It was Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullian, it wass said that the doctrine of the trinity was his best achievement to Christianity.
He was born in A.D. 155 to Pagan Parents.
I am going to just list some Scriptures and I let you search them out.
Deut. 4:35
Deut. 6:4
1 Corinth. 8:4
Ephesians 4:6
And by Jesus own words
John 14:28
Were do you read that Jesus always existed.
You quote John 8:58 that only explains that He was before Abraham was. Just like all the other Scriptures that show us that He preexisted before the world was.
He did not have deity yet. Otherwise He could not have died for us. He does however have it now, He can never die again.
Jesus did know already that He was going to die for our sins. IMO He knew what was at stake. Scriptures tell us that all have fallen short of the glory of God. Also John tells us that all have sinned. Most believe that Jesus was a mere man, like all of us. To me that was not true. He was perfect in every way. He never sinned, so how then could He be like us in that way. He was however tempted and He was flesh like we.
Peace and Love IreneHi georg
I don’t normally talk to people like this, but with your pre-fabbed accusational
sounding questions, but I will answer your first question by drawing you a comparison.The JW’s I met on the street were always polite as well as always trying to be informative.
You do your origination a disservice with both a lack of courtesy and limited information.Did you read the thread that I wrote? NO.
Did you read the book that I wrote? NO.
Did you do any background on me (like reading my earlier comments)? NO.Then why do you expect me to take you accusational questions seriously?
You have failed your leaders. I compare your questions to that of the Baptists.
What I mean by that is they will ask you (anybody) more than 10 questions,
before they (sitting on the judgement seat of course) will even consider a person to be “a True Christion”.And your questions also compare to the Pentecostals in that ‘unless a person speaks in tongues
He can in no way be “a True Christion.”When you say “him” (the Holy Spirit) in John 16:7; does this mean you believe in a trinity?
Perhaps “him” in John 16:7 missed the purge in the 1984 revision and will have to wait for the next.
must be purged as well.Perhaps all I really need to do is explain the Spiritual significants of Matt. 28:19 for you benefit;
but will you even read it. Perhaps you will just be another that just “falls away”. Pay attention student.The Hebrew word [םיהלא] ĔL-ō-Hêêm (in Genesis 1:1: God) carries the meanings of both
“God in the plural”, and also “The Mighty God”. This can be better illustrated using both the English AKJV Bible’s rendering of JEHOVAH and the Greek’s word for “GOD”.There are five words for “God” (all are pronounced Thēôs) in Greek; they are…
1) θεος
2) θεου
3) θεω
4) θεον
5) θεεFour out the Five of these words meaning “God”, also are Plural forms of the word; “God in the plural”.
ONE is used in singular form only.These facts interface perfectly with the AKJV Bible.
5 times GOD’s Name is used in singular form (apart from the other three phrases) in the AKJV Bible.
JEHOVAH is used exactly 4 times; matching the four variants of “God in the plural” in Greek!
JAH used once; because HE (יהוה האלהים YÄ-hä-
vā hä ĔL- ō-Hêêm JEHOVAH GOD) is ONE!GOD truly exists in a plurality, (but not just merely two or three in one) as ALL IN ONE!
N.W.T. (Jehovah Witness’ version): John 17:22 “Also, I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be ONE just as we are ONE!
There are 5 expressions used in English to understand GOD; not merely just two or three.
1) YHVH (The Eternal Existing One) יהוה transliterated directly into English; Hebrew lacks vowels.
2) GOD The Father: (יהוה האלהים YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL- ō-Hêêm JEHOVAH GOD)
3) Jesus, The son of God; the one who shed his blood for your sins georg.
4) Holy Spirit; Him, Her, She, He, it; all these pronouns originate from one Greek word.
Perhaps you were never taught this as well! All of these are expressions of GOD in plural form!Who you might ask who is GOD in the singular form?
5) יהוה; GOD: Pronounced YÄ!
Witnessing to the world in behalf of (יהוה האלהים YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL- ō-Hêêm), my GOD!
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (georg @ Oct. 22 2009,13:42) You quote John 8:58 that only explains that He was before Abraham was. Just like all the other Scriptures that show us that He preexisted before the world was.
He did not have deity yet. Otherwise He could not have died for us. He does however have it now, He can never die again.
Jesus did know already that He was going to die for our sins. IMO He knew what was at stake. Scriptures tell us that all have fallen short of the glory of God. Also John tells us that all have sinned. Most believe that Jesus was a mere man, like all of us. To me that was not true. He was perfect in every way. He never sinned, so how then could He be like us in that way. He was however tempted and He was flesh like we.
Peace and Love Irene
Hi again Irene'You would do yourself a service if you had tour facts straight.
All this you quote here does not contain anything remotely close to anything I have said.
Thanks again'
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (katjo @ Oct. 22 2009,14:30) Jesus is called the first-born, not the first-created. The word “first-born” (Greek word “prototokos”) means priority. He could not be first created if He is creator!
In Rev. 3:14 it says this….”These says the Amen the Faithful and True Witness THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GO.'
Col. 1:15 however said :” He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
So here you have both firstborn and first creation. The imortant is, that He wa with the Father before the world was.
In John it says that ” I Am before Abraham was.”
IreneQuote (Ed J @ Oct. 22 2009,19:23) Quote (georg @ Oct. 22 2009,13:42) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 22 2009,11:08) Quote (katjo @ Oct. 22 2009,01:54) Jesus is God’s Son in that He was conceived by the Holy Spirit . But that does not mean Jesus did not exist before He was conceived. Jesus has always existed. Read John 8;58 and 10;30. When Jesus was conceived, than He became a human being in addition to being God (John 1:1 and 14.)
Jesus always had been God. BUT at the incarnation Jesus became a human being (John 1:14 word was made flesh). Jesus was one Person, fully God and fully man.
Jesus had two natures, but only one personality.
When Jesus was conceived, He became a human being in addition to being God. Remember what (John 1:1 and 14 says.).
Hi Katjo,Remember, the question is, why the N.W.T version has the last part of John 1:1 translated into ‘a god’; which I have explained very thoroughly; starting on page 43 of this thread.
The context of this thread is not whether Jesus had or has Deity; that is a separate issue; worthy of a discussion on another thread.
I agree with you “The Word” does do all those things; but understand that “The Word” (Holy Spirit) became flesh (in Jesus) at Jesus baptism by John;
He (Holy Spirit) led Jesus into the wilderness in Luke 4:1 and he (Holy Spirit) caused Jesus to return from the wilderness in Luke 4:14!
He (Holy Spirit) also made Jesus aware that he (Jesus) would have to die on a cross for the sins of mankind!The JW’s (David, Tim Kraft and Nick Hassan) all believe that at the point of baptism by John is when Jesus became the Messiah;
this view is consistent with the previous paragraph; which I’m sure they will disagree with.This lack of consistency on their part is the very reason why Christendom thinks there Organization is a cult.
But I know their goal is to worship יהוה האלהים YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL- ō-Hêêm (JEHOVAH GOD); therefore I consider them my brothers and sisters.For all belong to GOD. (Ezekiel 18:4 / Psalm 82:6)
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
You say when He the Holy Spirit, so you believe in a trinity!!!
However you can't prove that. Trinity is no where to be found in Scriptures. Jesus did not always exist either. He had a beginning.
Col. 1:15-17 He is the image of the invisible God, THE FIRSTBORN OVER ALL CREATION.
VERSE 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are in earth…….
Rev. 3:14 ….”These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD.
In John 17:5 Jesus said this:” And now O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
There is a lot of Controversy about John 1:1 but it clearly shows us, that He was in the beginning with God. God the Father has always existed.Proverb 8:22-30 Let me say something first about these Scriptures. Most here will say that these Scriptures is talking about the beginning of wisdom. To me it simple does not make sense. Wisdom is of God, which IMO He always had. Just like Patience, Love, intellect etc.
These are so clear to me about Jesus being His master craftsman. To me that is not wisdom. How could wisdom be His master craftsman?
Also the trinity is a man made doctrine and not of God.
It was Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullian, it wass said that the doctrine of the trinity was his best achievement to Christianity.
He was born in A.D. 155 to Pagan Parents.
I am going to just list some Scriptures and I let you search them out.
Deut. 4:35
Deut. 6:4
1 Corinth. 8:4
Ephesians 4:6
And by Jesus own words
John 14:28
Were do you read that Jesus always existed.
You quote John 8:58 that only explains that He was before Abraham was. Just like all the other Scriptures that show us that He preexisted before the world was.
He did not have deity yet. Otherwise He could not have died for us. He does however have it now, He can never die again.
Jesus did know already that He was going to die for our sins. IMO He knew what was at stake. Scriptures tell us that all have fallen short of the glory of God. Also John tells us that all have sinned. Most believe that Jesus was a mere man, like all of us. To me that was not true. He was perfect in every way. He never sinned, so how then could He be like us in that way. He was however tempted and He was flesh like we.
Peace and Love IreneHi georg
I don’t normally talk to people like this, but with your pre-fabbed accusational
sounding questions, but I will answer your first question by drawing you a comparison.The JW’s I met on the street were always polite as well as always trying to be informative.
You do your origination a disservice with both a lack of courtesy and limited information.Did you read the thread that I wrote? NO.
Did you read the book that I wrote? NO.
Did you do any background on me (like reading my earlier comments)? NO.Then why do you expect me to take you accusational questions seriously?
You have failed your leaders. I compare your questions to that of the Baptists.
What I mean by that is they will ask you (anybody) more than 10 questions,
before they (sitting on the judgement seat of course) will even consider a person to be “a True Christion”.And your questions also compare to the Pentecostals in that ‘unless a person speaks in tongues
He can in no way be “a True Christion.”When you say “him” (the Holy Spirit) in John 16:7; does this mean you believe in a trinity?
Perhaps “him” in John 16:7 missed the purge in the 1984 revision and will have to wait for the next.
must be purged as well.Perhaps all I really need to do is explain the Spiritual significants of Matt. 28:19 for you benefit;
but will you even read it. Perhaps you will just be another that just “falls away”. Pay attention student.The Hebrew word [םיהלא] ĔL-ō-Hêêm (in Genesis 1:1: God) carries the meanings of both
“God in the plural”, and also “The Mighty God”. This can be better illustrated using both the English AKJV Bible’s rendering of JEHOVAH and the Greek’s word for “GOD”.There are five words for “God” (all are pronounced Thēôs) in Greek; they are…
1) θεος
2) θεου
3) θεω
4) θεον
5) θεεFour out the Five of these words meaning “God”, also are Plural forms of the word; “God in the plural”.
ONE is used in singular form only.These facts interface perfectly with the AKJV Bible.
5 times GOD’s Name is used in singular form (apart from the other three phrases) in the AKJV Bible.
JEHOV
AH is used exactly 4 times; matching the four variants of “God in the plural” in Greek!JAH used once; because HE (יהוה האלהים YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL- ō-Hêêm JEHOVAH GOD) is ONE!
GOD truly exists in a plurality, (but not just merely two or three in one) as ALL IN ONE!
N.W.T. (Jehovah Witness’ version): John 17:22 “Also, I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be ONE just as we are ONE!
There are 5 expressions used in English to understand GOD; not merely just two or three.
1) YHVH (The Eternal Existing One) יהוה transliterated directly into English; Hebrew lacks vowels.
2) GOD The Father: (יהוה האלהים YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL- ō-Hêêm JEHOVAH GOD)
3) Jesus, The son of God; the one who shed his blood for your sins georg.
4) Holy Spirit; Him, Her, She, He, it; all these pronouns originate from one Greek word.
Perhaps you were never taught this as well! All of these are expressions of GOD in plural form!Who you might ask who is GOD in the singular form?
5) יהוה; GOD: Pronounced YÄ!
Witnessing to the world in behalf of (יהוה האלהים YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL- ō-Hêêm), my GOD!
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
And I go by Scriptures and not what a man is telling me. You think??? The Holy Spirit is not a person and did not become flesh. It was Jesus that became flesh. When you make commons like that expect to a rebuttal. Truth is truth and not an interpretation of that truth. Jesus was not fully God when He walked this earth. He emptied Himself, before He became a Human. The Holy Spirit is God the Fathers Spirit and we all receive His Spirit at Baptism.
The trinity doctrine is not of God. And in John 17:5 He told His Father …. read it yourself. I just can't understand you at all…..Oh I usually don't talk that way!!!What is that called?
Are you wearing a Hallo??
No my Friend think again. And study on the trinity. And the preexisting of Jesus, He did not always exsist. And the Holy Spirit is not a person. Also I am not Georg, I am Irene. And I have been around a lot more then you have. So don't give me that cockiness. You should try to have respect. My first post to you is not arrogant, like you think. You seem to think only you know it all. Come again. I am an 71 year old and I don't need your cookiness. All have fallen short of the glory of God.
IreneQuote (georg @ Oct. 22 2009,22:00) And I go by Scriptures and not what a man is telling me. You think??? The Holy Spirit is not a person and did not become flesh. It was Jesus that became flesh. When you make commons like that expect to a rebuttal. Truth is truth and not an interpretation of that truth. Jesus was not fully God when He walked this earth. He emptied Himself, before He became a Human. The Holy Spirit is God the Fathers Spirit and we all receive His Spirit at Baptism.
The trinity doctrine is not of God. And in John 17:5 He told His Father …. read it yourself. I just can't understand you at all…..Oh I usually don't talk that way!!!What is that called?
Are you wearing a Hallo??
No my Friend think again. And study on the trinity. And the preexisting of Jesus, He did not always exsist. And the Holy Spirit is not a person. Also I am not Georg, I am Irene. And I have been around a lot more then you have. So don't give me that cockiness. You should try to have respect. My first post to you is not arrogant, like you think. You seem to think only you know it all. Come again. I am an 71 year old and I don't need your cookiness. All have fallen short of the glory of God.
Irene
Hi Irene,Your post name is georg. I’m glad you at least took the time to read this last post of mine. I never used the word arrogant,
what I said was your questions were pre-fabbed and accuseational; which they are.You have written quite a bit here and the common pattern still exists, you want me to address everything you say
while at the same time you totally disregard the points that I have made. If you really want a serious talk on ANY point you want to make,
I suggest you go back to page 43 and be current on everything I have on said on this thread up until this point.For you to just jump in by reading ONLY the last post that I have written. Then expect me to drop every point that I have made “relevant to the topic on this thread”, might look to some readers like hypocritical.
You know that the biggest problem Jesus had with the religious leaders of his day was hypocrisy!
I will some it up for you in just one verse…
N.W.T. (JW’s version): Ezekiel 28:2: “…FOR THE REASON THAT YOUR HEART HAS BECOME HAUGHTY, and you keep saying [‘I am a god’]. In the seat of god (your name here) I have seated myself…
Only “The Truth” will do,
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHello Irene, You just qoutted jesus did not always exist, but yes he did ,He is CREATOR Colossians 1;16 tells us ALL things were created by Him and for Him. He was God (spirit) who became flesh in the form of a man. Jesus Christ. If He is creator -he could not of created himself. And you also said the Holy Spirit is not a He. I just posted to you probably 8 scriptures that call the Holy Spirit HE! To me this is why it would be so hard not to believe in the trinity. Way too many scriptures would contradict each other. Jesus was CREATOR in the beginning, came to earth, to be our Savior, and the one “LORD OF LORDS and KING OF KINGS” we will spend eternity with. If it's all about Jesus and I didnt believe in the trinity like (some here do not,)than were is God in all this? He is our God!
Quote (katjo @ Oct. 23 2009,12:38) Hello Irene, You just qoutted jesus did not always exist, but yes he did ,He is CREATOR Colossians 1;16 tells us ALL things were created by Him and for Him. He was God (spirit) who became flesh in the form of a man. Jesus Christ. If He is creator -he could not of created himself. And you also said the Holy Spirit is not a He. I just posted to you probably 8 scriptures that call the Holy Spirit HE! To me this is why it would be so hard not to believe in the trinity. Way too many scriptures would contradict each other. Jesus was CREATOR in the beginning, came to earth, to be our Savior, and the one “LORD OF LORDS and KING OF KINGS” we will spend eternity with. If it's all about Jesus and I didnt believe in the trinity like (some here do not,)than were is God in all this? He is our God!
I will challenge you to prove that the trinity is a God made doctrine and not of men. Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of
Kings. But not LORD of LORDS. You will always find LORD in the old Testament and it is always the Father, and not the Son.
First I will show you that Jesus did not always existed.
Col. 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.verse 16 For by Him all things were created that are on earth and that is in Heaven , visible and invisible. At first site you might think, how could He create all, if He was the firstborn of all creation. At the time it was only the Father and he Son. Then He created all by the power of His Father.
verse 17 And He is before all things and in Him all things consist.
verse 18 And He is the Head of the body the Church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have preeminence.
Preeminence means that He was first in all.Rev. 3:14…. “These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the beginning of the creation of God.”
In Proverbs 8:22-30 Before I will put these verses down, I want to say this. Most people will say that this is Wisdom that was created. However God is eternal and always existed, He did not have Wisdom until Proverbs? That I find wrong.
verse 22 ” The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His ways, Before His works of old.
verse 23 I have been established from everlasting,
From the beginning, before there was ever an earth.
verse 24 When there were no depths I was brought forth,
When there were no fountains abounding with water.
verse 25 Before the mountains were settled.
Before the hills, I was brought forth;
verse 26 While as yet He had not made the earth or the fields
or the primeval dust of the world.
verse 27 When He prepared the heavens, I was there,
When He drew a circle on the face of the deep.
verse 28 When He established the clouds above,
When He strengthened the fountains of the deep,
verse 29 When He assigned to the sea its limit,
So that the waters would not transgress His command,
When He marked out the foundation of the earth.verse 30 Then I was beside Him, as a master craftsman;
And I was His delight, Rejoicing always before Him.
I really marble how some even think that that could be Wisdom. A master craftsman….
Also in John 17:5 He said this
” And now O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory I had with you, before the world was.Peace and Love Irene
Irene,Rev 19;16 And he had on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, “CAPITALS” KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS!
Sorry Irene , but Psalms 8;22-30 is speaking of wisdom. Go back to verse one; do not wisdom cry? And understanding put fourth her voice?(2) she standeth in the top of the high places, by the way in the places of the path. (3) she cries (12) Even tell you it is speaking of wisdom. I WISDOM DWELL WITH PRUDENCE,AND FIND OUT KNOWLEDGE OF WITTY INVENTIONS.
Hi Kat,
You should read of the King, the Son of God, at work in the millenial kingdom in Ps 2.
His Father God is yet with him so men are advised to kiss the son.
Of course he is not his own God and Father.you cant say in the beginning it was God and his son. Colossians tells us all things were created by Him and for Him (17 He is before all things and by Him all things consist). (speaking of Jesus) Gen. 1;1 In the beginning GOD created the heavens and the earth! 2 more scriptures contradicting each other, if you try to seperate them. Which one do you believe?
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