What About John 1:1 in the NWT?

[Not3in1]

The Word was loved by God.
*******************************

Nick, does it somewhere tell us that God loved the “Word” before it became flesh?

[Not3in1]

We added on to our house just recently. But to begin with we had a hope of remodeling; then our hope turned into a plan to remodel; then our plan turned into drawings (our “hope” was becoming a “sort-of” reality); our drawings turned into a new wing on our home (our “hope” became reality in the fullest.)

We did not love our hope or plan UNTIL it became a beautiful new family room. Our plans could not provide an extra room for overnight guests, and our plans could not bring us joy by having more room to relax and play with our children.

Nick, I know your presupposed theory is that the Word was alive and able to be loved by God before he existed here on earth – but I just don't see that theory in scripture. No where do I see the LORD speaking to a son that is the Word, that already exists for him to love? If there are scriptures that clearly teach that, please show them to me. Thanks.

[NickHassan]

Quote (942767 @ May 21 2007,06:36)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2007,06:19) Hi 94, If I have an idea, a thought or a plan then that is all it remains as. However if I give expression to such an idea or plan or thought then it exists. If you design a car and then have it built then that car becomes the embodiment of your design. It exists with you. The Word was with God. The Word was loved by God. The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. God loved the world so much he sent His only begotten Son. Hi Nick: It stated with a plan or idea but the scripture states: Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, * (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. God Bless

Hi 94,
Not quite,
The Word was made flesh.
Words are already expressed.

[Not3in1]

A plan is already expressed as well, but does not become a reality (or flesh) until it is executed (or birthed).

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
Exactly.
The Word was WITH GOD in the beginning.
God sent his beloved Son into the world so that the world might be saved through him.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2007,07:22)

Quote (942767 @ May 21 2007,06:36) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2007,06:19) Hi 94, If I have an idea, a thought or a plan then that is all it remains as. However if I give expression to such an idea or plan or thought then it exists. If you design a car and then have it built then that car becomes the embodiment of your design. It exists with you. The Word was with God. The Word was loved by God. The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. God loved the world so much he sent His only begotten Son. Hi Nick: It stated with a plan or idea but the scripture states: Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, * (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. God Bless Hi 94, Not quite, The Word was made flesh. Words are already expressed.

Hi Nick:

The scripture doesn't say words.  It says word.  But God begins to implement his plan immediately.  First by creating the heavens and the earth and then creating mankind as living persons.  And he speaks prophetically in many scriptures about the coming of his Son, and then, the Word becomes a reality, and then we are born again and become sons of the most high God, and then comes the new heaven and the new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness.

God Bless

[Not3in1]

The Word was WITH GOD in the beginning.
***************

Not as a reality, though.

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
Are you to define truth as not being what is written?

[NickHassan]

Quote (942767 @ May 21 2007,07:48)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2007,07:22) Quote (942767 @ May 21 2007,06:36) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2007,06:19) Hi 94, If I have an idea, a thought or a plan then that is all it remains as. However if I give expression to such an idea or plan or thought then it exists. If you design a car and then have it built then that car becomes the embodiment of your design. It exists with you. The Word was with God. The Word was loved by God. The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. God loved the world so much he sent His only begotten Son. Hi Nick: It stated with a plan or idea but the scripture states: Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, * (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. God Bless Hi 94, Not quite, The Word was made flesh. Words are already expressed. Hi Nick: The scripture doesn't say words.  It says word.  But God begins to implement his plan immediately.  First by creating the heavens and the earth and then creating mankind as living persons.  And he speaks prophetically in many scriptures about the coming of his Son, and then, the Word becomes a reality, and then we are born again and become sons of the most high God, and then comes the new heaven and the new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness. God Bless

Hi 94,
Other sons rejoiced when God created the world but not the firstborn through whom they too were created?[Jb 38]

[Not3in1]

No, my point is that the Word was not yet realized and therefore not a person God could love (before he was born.)

If it is written that there is a spirit son who was the Word, whom God loved before his birth, please show me where it is written.

[Not3in1]

It goes back to my first question: “how” was the Word “with” God. I believe the bible lends itself to my theory as much as it lends itself to yours. That's all I'm saying, really. And how would the rest of what we see in scripture change if we were to entertain one another's view?

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2007,07:54)

Quote (942767 @ May 21 2007,07:48) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2007,07:22) Quote (942767 @ May 21 2007,06:36) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2007,06:19) Hi 94, If I have an idea, a thought or a plan then that is all it remains as. However if I give expression to such an idea or plan or thought then it exists. If you design a car and then have it built then that car becomes the embodiment of your design. It exists with you. The Word was with God. The Word was loved by God. The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. God loved the world so much he sent His only begotten Son. Hi Nick: It stated with a plan or idea but the scripture states: Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, * (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. God Bless Hi 94, Not quite, The Word was made flesh. Words are already expressed. Hi Nick: The scripture doesn't say words.  It says word.  But God begins to implement his plan immediately.  First by creating the heavens and the earth and then creating mankind as living persons.  And he speaks prophetically in many scriptures about the coming of his Son, and then, the Word becomes a reality, and then we are born again and become sons of the most high God, and then comes the new heaven and the new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness. God Bless Hi 94, Other sons rejoiced when God created the world but not the firstborn through whom they too were created?[Jb 38]

Hi Nick:

According to the commentaries that I read relative to Job 38, the sons of God here refer to the angels.

As a matter of fact the NIV has this verse as:  Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? 6 On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone– 7 while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?

God Bless

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Sure. And they were created through THE unique firstborn Son of God.

[942767]

Hi Nick:

You say:

Hi 94,
Sure. And they were created through THE unique firstborn Son of God.

But the following scriptures say “by him” and “by whom” and not “through him”.
John 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Col 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

1:1
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,  
1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;  

Again, God created every thing that he created with Jesus and the rest of his children in mind.  Jesus is God's heir and we are joint heirs with him.

God Bless

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Colossians 1:16
For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities– all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Hebrews 1:2
in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2007,11:00)

Hi 94, Colossians 1:16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities– all things have been created through Him and for Him. Hebrews 1:2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

Hi Nick:

Some translations say through, and so how in your opinion does that change what I have said relative to God creating every thing that he has created with Jesus and the rest of his children in mind?

God Bless

[NickHassan]

Quote (Not3in1 @ May 21 2007,07:58)

No, my point is that the Word was not yet realized and therefore not a person God could love (before he was born.) If it is written that there is a spirit son who was the Word, whom God loved before his birth, please show me where it is written.

Hi not3,
Luke 20:13
Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Not3in1 @ May 21 2007,08:00)

It goes back to my first question:  “how” was the Word “with” God.  I believe the bible lends itself to my theory as much as it lends itself to yours.  That's all I'm saying, really.  And how would the rest of what we see in scripture change if we were to entertain one another's view?

Hi not3,
The simplest meaning is usually right.
With means with.

[NickHassan]

Quote (942767 @ May 21 2007,11:47)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2007,11:00) Hi 94, Colossians 1:16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities– all things have been created through Him and for Him. Hebrews 1:2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. Hi Nick: Some translations say through, and so how in your opinion does that change what I have said relative to God creating every thing that he has created with Jesus and the rest of his children in mind? God Bless

Hi 94,
Certainly the sons of God inherit through Christ.

[Not3in1]

With all due respect Nick, my dinner is still “with” me………

“With” has a variety of ways it can be employed depending on what you are talking about, and one of the descriptions according to Webster's is: containing.

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