We consist in jesus throgh new covenant

Participant

Hebrews 10:29(KJV) reads:

Quote

Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

If I assumed that this scripture was speaking of the old covenant because it does not specify then I would be acting in ignorance of the gospel of God’s Kingdom.

Colossians 1:15-16(KJV) reads:

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Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

The same is true of this scripture as regards this scripture as it is through obedience to the gospel that we consist as he is the mediator of the new covenant.

November 8, 2010 at 7:41 am#223602

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 08 2010,10:39)

Hebrews 10:29(KJV) reads:

Quote

If I assumed that this scripture was speaking of the old covenant because it does not specify then I would be acting in ignorance of the gospel of God’s Kingdom.

Colossians 1:15-16(KJV) reads:

Quote

The same is true of this scripture as regards this scripture as it is through obedience to the gospel that we consist as he is the mediator of the new covenant.

kerwin! I don't think that the New Covenant has anything to do with Col. 1:15-16
The New Covenant
Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup [is] the new covenant in my blood, which is shed for you.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

He is however our Mediator because it is by His scarifies that our sins are now forgiven. No other scarifies is needed….

I also don't understand what you are trying to say when you quote Col 1:15-16…..these Scriptures states that He was the firstborn of all creation. verse 16 states again that all things are created by Him and for Him…..

I just don't see the connection that you are trying to make…..

The New Covenant is made spiritual on the Sermon on the Mount. He magnified the Law and made it spiritual…. Now if you hate your Brother, you have already committed murder in your heart….
Then Jesus gave us the great Commandment in

Mat 22:36 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.

Mat 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

The difference in the great commandment and the Ten Commandment is first it is spiritual and the Sabbath is and never was for us….it is a sign between God and the Children of Israel…

Exd 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant.

Exd 31:17 It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Peace and Love Irene

November 8, 2010 at 9:59 pm#223667

Participant

kerwin

i have no clue were you want to go with this,since you did not lead in any way,

or are try to confirm what a scripture says??

Pierre

November 8, 2010 at 10:04 pm#223669

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 08 2010,17:39)

Hebrews 10:29(KJV) reads:

Quote

If I assumed that this scripture was speaking of the old covenant because it does not specify then I would be acting in ignorance of the gospel of God’s Kingdom.

Colossians 1:15-16(KJV) reads:

Quote

The same is true of this scripture as regards this scripture as it is through obedience to the gospel that we consist as he is the mediator of the new covenant.

kerwin

why would you assume something what is clearly stated;

Heb 10:28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
Heb 10:29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”
Heb 10:31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Heb 10:32 Remember those earlier days after you had received the light, when you stood your ground in a great contest in the face of suffering.

Paul talks about the light of Christ and those who reject the grace of God and so trample the blood sacrifice of Christ to nothing.the entire gospels are preaching this.

Pierre

November 9, 2010 at 9:21 am#223756

Participant

Irene,

I am not sure that we understand the same thing about either the gospel or the new covenant. I believe the gospel is all of Jesus' teachings and that it not only tells us how to enter and live by the new covenant but also taught us its terms and conditions. The new covenant is an agreement between God and mankind in which God would give us and train us to live by the spirit of righteousness in exchange for us believing in and making Jesus Lord of our life. The new covenant is sealed with Jesus' blood.

Since this is so we become a new creation when we are born into the new covenant. The new creation is “created through him and for him.” In this new creation “he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.” as the old creation is subject to decay through Adam, the new creation is subject to righteousness through Christ.

The old creation was not under the authority of Christ since Satan rules it and Jesus was not made king of heaven and earth until after his death and resurrection.

November 9, 2010 at 9:32 am#223758

Participant

Pierre,

We often assume when we either lack evidence or don't understand. In this case I am pointing to the context to show what is clearly stated just as you are by quoting more of Hebrews 10 to show what covenant is clearly stated in verse 29.

I point out more why Colossians is speaking of the new and not old covenant in my previous post to Irene.

November 9, 2010 at 11:18 am#223770

Pastry

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 09 2010,19:21)

Irene,

The old creation was not under the authority of Christ since Satan rules it and Jesus was not made king of heaven and earth until after his death and resurrection.

kerwin, I agree with most what you said, however Jesus did preexist before He became a man. That you don't want to address and never done so. Why? There is plenty of Scriptures that tell us so….Also I have no clue why you even think that I don't understand the New Covenant in Jesus Blood, when I gave you those Scriptures that tell us so……And the great Commandment plus that Jesus magnified the Law….. That too is important to understand…. I also told you that in the Catholic Church they read out oft the Gospel according to the Books of the Bible, which is in the New Testament, and is Jesus mostly speaking…and that is what the Go0spel is……when I say this it is automatically understood that we live under Jesus blood… The terms that you speaking of ,is the great Commandments….again in Jesus blood, or better under Jesus blood….Irene

November 9, 2010 at 11:49 am#223773

Participant

Quote (Pastry @ Nov. 09 2010,21:18)

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 09 2010,19:21)

Irene,

The old creation was not under the authority of Christ since Satan rules it and Jesus was not made king of heaven and earth until after his death and resurrection.

I don't know what happened, but at one time we thought we had to re register again, so the last post is under our newest users name. I rather go by Baker, since I have editing rights…..I wanted to make you aware of that it is me, Irene

November 9, 2010 at 2:04 pm#223780

GeneBalthrop

Participant

To All………..We must remember the Letter was addressed to the Hebrews, they were under the Law and they considered the sacrifice of a Human and using his blood for an offering as a unholy thing, they would naturally despise it in the first place and treat it with disdain. The book of Hebrew was dealing with the Hebrew conceptions about Scarifies and Priestly orders and ect. The writer was working with the Hebrew mind set trying to convience them of the New covenant and its superiority. We in the new Covenant do not think the Blood of Jesus is an unholy thing at all, because we know it is talking about his life being poured out for us, nor do we do despite to it either. IMO

peace and love to you all………………..gene

November 10, 2010 at 12:38 am#223850

Participant

Irene,

My concern, as regard preexistence, is that you believe that Jesus is a human being with no advantage over those who enter the new covenant but maturity which they will also strive for and achieve be persisting in the faith.

I question your level of understanding of the new covenant because you by your present beliefs seem unaware of the need for the above belief.

As long as you and George remember to sign your names I will know who you are after I read the signatures. Another Irene or George might get mistaken for you two though.

November 10, 2010 at 1:29 am#223860

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 10 2010,02:21)

Irene,

The old creation was not under the authority of Christ since Satan rules it and Jesus was not made king of heaven and earth until after his death and resurrection.

Kerwin

well now you say;The new covenant is an agreement between God and mankind in which God would give us and train us to live by the spirit of righteousness in exchange for us believing in and making Jesus Lord of our life. The new covenant is sealed with Jesus' blood.
—————————————

this i would change;;;God would give us and train us to live by the spirit of righteousness in exchange for us believing in and making Jesus Lord of our life;;

God proposes to us everlasting live ;if we believe in him and in the one he has send,and if we can have faith in him so to come to change our ways of sin,into his way of truth and live in that truth then and only then we have accepted his new covenant for witch Christ give his live.and all of our sins will be forgiven.and now so become a new creation according to Christ way.and also vanquished the world.

you say;;The old creation was not under the authority of Christ
———————————-

this is not true,if it would be so Christ could not fulfill it to the letter,
and he certainly would not be able to abolish it.this clearly shows that Christ has received as he says all the powers on earth and in heaven ,because after his dead he kick satan out of it.

and Christ was not a new creation he in fact was the first creation before all thing.so he was from old.
you have not answered any of the scriptures i ask you to.

Christ is the WORD,Jesus,the Lamb,holocaust,priest like melchizedek,King of Kings,ect

ho i forgot one name ;but i do not know it because it is only known to himself.

so we can say that Christ is the first born of all of creation from the beginning of all Gods creation.that he was in powered to the will of God and that was to end the old covenant and bring fort the new covenant.

Pierre

November 10, 2010 at 2:24 am#223872

Participant

Pierre,

Why I stated that the old creation is not under Jesus is because Jesus stated the prince of this world stands condemned by Jesus’ death on the cross, John 16:11. He mentions this prince twice more in John 12:31 and John 14:30. If you look to 2 Corinthians 4:4 calls him the god of this world/age. You know that the old creation is subject to frustration and not to Jesus or it would not be frustrated, Romans 8:20-21.

Jesus is the first man of the new creation just like Adam I the first man of the old which is why it is written:

1 Corinthians 15:20-21(NIV) reads:

Quote

But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.

I am attempting to answer by using the spiritual teachings of scripture while being brief.

November 10, 2010 at 2:36 am#223876

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 10 2010,19:24)

Pierre,

Jesus is the first man of the new creation just like Adam I the first man of the old which is why it is written:

1 Corinthians 15:20-21(NIV) reads:

Quote

But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.

I am attempting to answer by using the spiritual teachings of scripture while being brief.

Kerwin

christ is not a new creation;Christ gives as the means to become a new creation by leaving our old man(Adams way) ways of live,

Christ did not have to do that ,because he was from above,and was holy.

Pierre

November 10, 2010 at 2:46 am#223880

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 10 2010,10:38)

Irene,

I question your level of understanding of the new covenant because you by your present beliefs seem unaware of the need for the above belief.

As long as you and George remember to sign your names I will know who you are after I read the signatures. Another Irene or George might get mistaken for you two though.

Tell me kerwin, why do you have to get personal? I could say the same thing about you. You have never yet addressed all the Scriptures that I have given you…..Jesus did have an adantage over us, because if He would not, He would be just like any other Human and would have sinned. And I already answered you about the new Covenant and the great commandment. What exactly is it
that makes you believe that I have no understanding of the covenant….I have given you Scriptures etc. And I am really getting sick and tired of you accusations. I know very well that I am under Jesus Blood and the great commandments. All you keep saying I don't think you don't understand the new Covenant…
Yet, never exactly tell me what it is…..Jesus teaches us to follow Him….

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:

Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Irene

November 10, 2010 at 10:42 am#223974

Participant

Pierre,

Scripture defines the new creation as “like God in true righteousness and holiness”, Ephesians 4:24, and the old one as “corrupted by its deceitful desires”, Ephesians 4:22. I am sure you agree that Jesus is obviously the new and not the old. I would even go so far as to say he is both the prototype and archetype of the new image all will come to conform to, Romans 8:29.

November 10, 2010 at 4:16 pm#223995

Participant

Kerwin! I was just checking up what you said to Pierre and you quote Romans 8:29. I have this verse underlined in red and found it when I read it the first time, I underlined it.

Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Oh, how I remember reading all of that. How Gods Holy Spirit showed me whenever I sinned. I don't sin as much as when I was in the Old Man or Woman for me, but I also believe we still do sin. It is
not done intentionally, and yes, the Holy Spirit is still showing me….John tells us that if we believe we don't sin the truth is not in us….However it amazes me how God works in us….
God has given us to Christ and Christ says that He will not loose us….Stay under the blood of Christ and through Faith we are saved……
Peace Irene

November 10, 2010 at 4:40 pm#223998

GeneBalthrop

Participant

To All……………No man or women is declared righteous on their own, we are declared righteous by GOD because of the Faith of Jesus Christ , His sacrifice blots out all judgement of Sin and has removed us from Judgment to life. It never was a matter of our overcoming on our own but in the Blood of Christ we are delivered from the grip of sin and death. Through one mans righteousness, it brought life to us all, GOD has declared us righteous and Justified (NOW) through the Blood of Jesus, who gave himself FOR US> Why should any one do despite to that GRACE Given TO US by trying to establish their OWN Righteousness through works of the Law, It is Through the Blood of Jesus were are being transformed into the IMAGE of His DEAR Son, by the effectual working of the Power of GOD which we recieved through Jesus or Brother and Lord. God the FATHER respect for Jesus' Sacrifice is our ticket to salvation and eternal life. IMO. Not of our works lest any should boast. We are indeed save by the GRACE of GOD Through the Sacriffice of Jesus our Lord and above that our Brother, what a brother we have!> IMO

peace and love to you all……………………………….gene

November 10, 2010 at 6:20 pm#224000

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 10 2010,02:32)

Pierre,

I point out more why Colossians is speaking of the new and not old covenant in my previous post to Irene.

kerwin

you do not quote your scriptures,and say what is not;

Col 1:14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
PAUL SAYS THAT CHRIST IS THE FIRST BORN OF ALL CREATION AND THE FIRSTBORN FROM THE DEAD AND IN THIS WAY HE HAS SUPREMACY .

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

this verses above show that Paul recognized that Christ was born the first of all creation because he is before all things
what you kerwin reject this words of Paul.

your explanation as deceit in it ,

this verses as well is miss quoted by you ,and is more related to;Jn 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
Jn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
Jn 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
Jn 3:20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
Jn 3:21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God

so your answers that you give me are of deceit and you try to show me that what i say is like you only deceit.

you are a liar,and do not have sound judgement in scriptures
you may be slow but there is no excuse to be false in lies and deceit.

read back the 3 or 4 previous quotes and see how you are answering in not answering the question on hand and built deceit.

Pierre

November 10, 2010 at 6:37 pm#224001

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 11 2010,03:42)

Pierre,

kerwin

you preaching deceit,your comment does not line up with those scriptures ,you twisting them ;

Eph 4:17 So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking.
Eph 4:18 They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts.
Eph 4:19 Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more.
Eph 4:20 You, however, did not come to know Christ that way.
Eph 4:21 Surely you heard of him and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus.
Eph 4:22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;
Eph 4:23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds;
Eph 4:24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
Eph 4:25 Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body.
Eph 4:26 “In your anger do not sin” : Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry,
Eph 4:27 and do not give the devil a foothold.
Eph 4:28 He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with his own hands, that he may have something to share with those in need.

this has nothing to do in your comment,you are a dreamer open you eyes and see.

Ro 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
Ro 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Ro 8:30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
Ro 8:31 What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us?
Ro 8:32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?
Ro 8:33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies.
Ro 8:34 Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.
Ro 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?

those above verses talks about the brothers of Christ who are the 144k from revelation those and only those are his brothers,Rev 7:4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel
first call;
second call;
all the others are from the earth and for the earth.

SO I DO NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR COMMENT ,AND YOU DO NOT ANSWER MY QUOTES

AND SO BEING DRIVEN IN DECEIT TO JUSTIFY YOUR VIEWS

SO PLEASE GO BACK AND ANSWER THE QUESTIONS.

AND DO NOT TRY TO DRAG ME IN WITH YOUR DECEIT.

Pierre

November 10, 2010 at 7:29 pm#224008